CCC's and poor finishing

[Russianbear]

Firstly, I understand the debate around the validity of "clear cut chances" and how they aren't always as clear cut as they seem. Secondly I understand that there are no football gods monitoring the the fairness of the score sheet in relation to the balance of play. With this said I'm still pretty frustrated with a phenomenon that seems to plague the saves I play and I guess I'm posting in the hopes that it's something that will be worked on in FM13.

I usually play the team I support, that being Arsenal, however I've dabbled around and managed Lille and Aston Villa for a while too. I usually try to play a possession based game with emphasis on through balls and quick dribbling poachers. This style of play obviously results in alot of 1 v 1's and clear cut chances. So I go into matches watching my team cut another apart and really play good football only to screw wide every clear cut chance that comes my way. This in itself is somewhat annoying but I understand the fact that I usually don't purchase top of the range strikers as I prefer my strikers to be successful off the back of my great playmakers and teamwork. This does result in my front men being prone to a lack of finish at times.

What really grates at my nipples though, if you'll excuse the vulgarity, is when I'm dominating and my opponent scores off their one and only real chance at goal. This usually occurs via a counter (Which is tactically understandable), a set piece or a ridiculous long shot from a player who shouldn't even be capable of one.

I understand that this is a simulation game and in simulating this beautiful sport it must simulate the element of chance that makes football special. However a line has to be drawn somewhere as this is a game and a game should be rewarding. I just don't feel in control of my team's destiny alot of the time as the AI seems to be able to score out of nowhere even when you've put time and effort into nullifying their threat and creating chances (And on paper you've been successful).

I guess my suggestion would be that the finishing ability of the human team's players should be checked out and molded in such a way that goals are granted when really they are thoroughly deserved. I know that sounds like a method that would completely defeat the notion of chance in the game but as it stands the balance seems by and large in favor of randomness and a frustrating disregard of the balance of play.

P.S. I apologize if there is another thread tackling this topic, I've been away for a while and would have missed it.

[Kenco]

For you it seems FM is replicating what happens to Liverpool every game IRL .

[Dave80]

I completely agree with this, and - yes - you may have put forward a previously discussed point but it is in a well structured and thought out way (The kind of post I can bare reading, you used paragraphs, this helps.) To some it seems like bitching, however when you spend the time building a squad and tweaking the tactics to suit that squad only to see them squander what could only be described as "virtual open goals" it does beg the question what is going on behind the scenes.

[Russianbear]

For you it seems FM is replicating what happens to Liverpool every game IRL .

It would seems so, but for me atleast this trend is not related to the form or make-up of any specific team rather it seems to have been brought about by the nature of the game engine. I'm going to hang my neck out and suggest that you won't find many FM players who won't agree with the notion that it takes less chances for the AI to score than it does for a human player.

[themadsheep2001]

It would seems so, but for me atleast this trend is not related to the form or make-up of any specific team rather it seems to have been brought about by the nature of the game engine. I'm going to hang my neck out and suggest that you won't find many FM players who won't agree with the notion that it takes less chances for the AI to score than it does for a human player.

There is a very long thread which proves that it didnt take less chances for the AI to score. I'll find the link and post it

[Russianbear]

There is a very long thread which proves that it didnt take less chances for the AI to score. I'll find the link and post it

Thanks, I'll give it a read. Maybe I'll get some insight into the things I'm doing wrong.

[themadsheep2001]

Thanks, I'll give it a read. Maybe I'll get some insight into the things I'm doing wrong.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/303143-Why-is-the-AI-so-much-better-at-finishing?highlight=finishing

its very very long, but you can skip to the end of the debate from about post 440. But the whole thing showed that human players can always be, and usually tend to be, much better converters than the AI. It might be something you are doing wrong, it might just be sheer bad luck, but overall you can always end up the better finisher. One of the things with the game is that its not always easy to work out what it is you are doing wrong and why, and hopefully that will have been looked at for FM13, in terms of easier to understand anlysis

[zambong]

If your strikers miss a lot of CCC in many consecutive games, perhaps they are playing under pressure. In my Ebolitana save, my strikers missed many CCC against weaker team because I was always using Assertively and Passionately. When I switch to Calmly the goals flow even with my wingers with terrible finishing.

Tactically speaking, I could see a problem if you don't have solid and fast DM and FB. If the opponent has a fast winger with good crossing paired with a poacher with good movement, you will have a lot of problem. I usually shorten my team's passing if I concede too many goals on counter attack.

[Russianbear]

Thanks Sheep and Zambong, I'm fully aware that the issue may infact be my tactics. And it must be said that if that is the case, then I hope in future it might be made a little easier to dissect as Themadsheep suggested.

[Soccer]

I feel that when you are tense while playing FM, your players will most certainly not do well and end up losing games. So, one of the keys to winning games in FM is to actually be cool and somewhat detached from the results.

[davidbowie]

The defensive AI in FM is so poor, the game can't handle good tactics that create many CCC's because it would push the game out of whack with the preset 'amounts' of goals per game that SI program into the game. The end result is strikers who can't aim, or when they can aim, shoot the ball straight at the keeper. Or turn around and pass it backwards when 1 on 1.

[martinji]

First off, let me acknowledge

1) that you can overcome this issue at least partly by tactics

2) that the issue affects AI exactly the samel, it's not disproportionate

3) that even IRL only 25-33% of one-on-ones are converted.

That said, I still believe the amount of one on ones and other clear cut chances missed, as displayed by the ME 3-D representation, is unrealistic. I think a big reason for this is that the 3D does not adequately represent things like whether the player is slightly off balance, whether he is stretching to get the shot in, whether the ball is bobbling, and probably is not accurately representing how close other players are to making a tackle. Basically in the 3D it looks like you have succession after succession of perfectly played through balls where the attacking player is perfectly balanced, has the ball completely under control and is under no pressure from the last man, oh and also is usually approaching the goal at an angle no wider that the outside corner of the penalty box, with all the time in the world and no need to hurry a shot. The proportion of these types of one on ones that is converted IRL I would contend is probably higher than 25-33%, but IRL these are probably less than half of all one-on-ones, as usually either there will be a last man close enough to affect the strikers mind, or the ball will not be perfectly under control, or they'll be approaching from a wider angle having skinned a full back etc.

Then we have the way the ME represents the shots and saves. Too many of the shots appear to be unremittingly dismal. Again I assume this is a representational thing. Many times my forwards' shots beat the keeper, go wide but only just make the goal line they are so weak! You hardly ever see this IRL, only for complete miscues. Or they appear to be literally straight at the goalie, I've never noticed in FM any shot that's say one foot to the goalies left so that they jump across to catch while maintaining an upright posture. Shots from inside the area that end up looking more like crosses are also far too common, of course they happen but not 5-6 times a game, especially when the player has the time on the ball that the ME makes them appear to.

For me it all adds up to the frustrating experience of watching your team play like Barcelona outside of the penalty box, knocking it around with panache, crisp one touch pass and move football, until they get into the penalty area and turn into the Dog and Duck XI spannering everything wide or prodding tentatively to the goalie.

[Kenco]

It would seems so, but for me atleast this trend is not related to the form or make-up of any specific team rather it seems to have been brought about by the nature of the game engine. I'm going to hang my neck out and suggest that you won't find many FM players who won't agree with the notion that it takes less chances for the AI to score than it does for a human player.

I actually find the opposite is true, my team scores more goals per chance than AI teams. I reckon there are lots of FM players who would agree with me, they just don't post about it because they don't consider it worth posting about.

I provided some stats to back this up once but can't for the life of me remember when I posted it.

[Oypus]

the issue may infact be my tactics.

What just happened here?

[BiggusD]

It isn't your tactic per se. If you have made it yourself, you will undoubtedly have tried many things in an attempt to find what works best. Unfortunately, what works best in FM is fast strikers running with the ball, which is why most people employ at least one poacher. This is unfortunate because when a player is instructed to run with the ball often and not cross or play through ball, with a very attacking mentality and low creative freedom as well as being set to run from deep often (which is standard poacher), he will generate a lot of chances for himself but invariably these types of chances have a low convertion ratio.

They have a low conversion ratio because of two things:

A) he has the ball long enough for the keeper to wait for the shot in the correct position

B) the angle of approach, especially in a one-striker-formation, will often be 90 degrees related to the goal, around the penalty kick spot. Coming straight at the keeper like this makes finishing extremely difficult also in real life.

The solution to these problems is simple: don't use poachers (or instruct your strikers to run with ball often). You could even consider doing so "cheating" because all any striker needs to do to have a shot at goal is to go past -one- defender... that's how "defense" in FM works. If your poacher scored on even half of the 5-10 one-on-ones he will get every match, you would all complain to SI about it.

In fact, the poacher instruction makes chance creation so easy that with the right players you auto-win in most matches... until he misses a few chances early on and loses confidence. Then what the OP and countless others describe happens.

Instead of focusing on creating as many chances as possible, try to make a tactic that creates few but big non-one-on-one chances through patient and unselfish team play. That's what I go for and it is this efficiency that is the backbone of any success I might have.

[pandaktuai]

Check your player type mate, if your coach said he's a speedy player, he certainly shoot with power. Clear cut chance and shoot with power,greatt,..sighhh.. Dont bother ask him to place shoot either.