Starting an honest game

[boblardo]

Inspired by this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/321146-Clean-slate-new-club...-what-s-your-checklist-How-do-you-figure-out-the-best-tactic I have decided to forget downloadable tactics and play FM 2013 as honestly as possible.

Now I maybe giving myself a massive challenge but I have started with Dorchester in the Blue Square South.

Squad

A quick look at my squad and I settle on the following formation

Tactic

Team Instructions

My RB has very weak attacking stats but strong defensive stats so have made him more defensive where as the LB is asked to be more adventurous. The DMC is set as an Anchor Man to make the defence more solid

I want one of my midfielders to win the ball as high up the pitch as possible and pass to one of the more advanced players. My other midfielder has no real strong points so I would rather he focus on attacking.

Up front I have the Central Striker dropping deep to get the ball and create chances for my wingers.

I set Focus Passing to through the middle and want to try and get the ball forward as quickly as possible so set Passing to more Direct and set tempo to quick.

I setup a friendly against my reserve team, the score finished 3-2

Match Stats

Here are the match stats for the game

Player Stats

Individual players stats

I watched the entire match, thier first goal was an OG from a corner, the second goal was a mis-hit cross. It looked solid but I know I am missing something. I have saved the match if anyone wants to view it.

I am trying to learn how to play this game so any advice on formation, team instructions etc would be appreciated.

Although I had good passing stats I think alot of these were side ways passes rather than forward passes, how can I get the players to play forward passes more often?

Is it an issue that my players didn't tackle often, how can I change this?

I can see that all most all of the opposition shots were taken from long range

Opposition Shots

My Shots

A fair few shots from outside the box but the two chances I had inside the box forced a save and we scored.

I have a friendly against Hampton & Richmond which I will play but if anyone can see any obvious failings please feel free to shout

[Kamil-S]

Check this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/311627-The-FM-41221-(433-451-WoW)

[furiousuk]

I love the way you refer to your reserves as 'their first goal' and 'their second goal', beauty, whoever the opposition they are still the enemy!

Results from one game can only be interpreted in terms of that one game. This is doubly true for warm-up games.

In pre-season games there are lots of other problems such as new signings, new tactics, poor player condition etc etc etc. This makes it hard to judge our tactical schemes, however, we still try to take what we can from the pre-season.

A better way to think about it is to learn your lessons from individual games but don't rely on that information. You might be poor in one area (e.g. your counters might be poor quality) but don't assume that this is an inherent weakness with your team, it may just be an isolated occurence. If it happens in most pre-season games then it's probably a problem, otherwise just take it under advisement.

In your case you are basing your assumptions from one game and its a game against your reserves so its hardly a quality game. Look for trends by all means but you can't make decisions yet.

There's a few issues I can see with your setup though (these are all guesses, once you've played a few games you'll be in a better position than I am to say whether I'm right or wrong):

Do you need a cover/stopper combo with an anchor-man? Keep an eye on this. Cover/stopper traditionally creates a vertical gap between defenders - this is good for covering the space infront of your DC's but can be exploited by clever, quick strikers (especially in 2 striker formations). With a DM (particularly a heavily defensive one like an anchorman) the space infront of DC's is covered so you may as well go def/def in defence. Just keep an eye and feel free to disagree.

You midfield trio are very defensive. Your BWM/s will get forward but he's probably primarily an industrious defensive-type player rather than a creative maestro. As he has a DM behind him to mop up when he goes hairing off winning you the ball you can afford to have a creative guy next to him (this is not so in a 2-man midfield or a 4231 type formation). You maybe don't need a guy with a defensive duty next to him, support or Adv.PM/Supp would be fine if you have a creative player to fit the bill. You could even get away with trying a bustling player with an attack duty to move beyond your creative deep-dropping FC although that is harder to get right.

Good luck playing the 'honest' game. It's hard but (in my view) it's far far more enjoyable. Making decisions is where its at.

[boblardo]

My DLF usually drops into the space between midfield and striker, surely by making one of my midfielders more attacking the two players will occupy the same space!

[Cleon]

You actually play my preffered front 3 set up, I explained exactly why I used one winger, 1 inside forward and 1 deeplying striker in the SI Sports Centre thread up top. I just love all the different options you have available and the attacking play is really varied and you create lots of space.

I do however set up my CM's different. I use a DLP defend, CM auto to help link up the play between the front 3. The DMC sits and covers the back 4 and the DLP is the main passing outlet of the team and spreads play wide etc. He is like the Joe Allen kind of player, keeps things simple and helps distribute the ball. I leave the other CM on auto as then he will change what's expected of him based on the strategy I am using at the time.

I'm not a fan of BWM's as they run about like headless chickens and don't offer much in going forward terms. They leave big gaps in the middle and often get caught or dragged out of position.

[higgins]

The shape you chose is a good starting point, very solid defensively and still dangerous up top, regarding roles and duties the furious guy is right, I don't know your players but you should try to employ one more offensive minded man in the middle of the pitch to support your lone striker, a bit isolated at the moment, if you have a playmaker type of player just use him.

Don't forget that strength is a vital attribute in the lower leagues, notably your lone striker should be well built.

Good luck with your save and your choice to play honest, the hard way will bring you lots of frustr...ahem... satisfaction.

[boblardo]

I must confess that I read the linked thread thoroughly so may have been influenced by some of your suggestions, for which I thank you.

I did go through each player, looked at the roles I thought they could play or wanted them to play and then checked the attributes for each player role. It just turns out that my wide players are suited to an inside forward and a winger although i was hoping that my right hand side winger would be more suited to a defensive winger.

It was the same with my midfielders, they have little creative ability so I guess its time to hit the transfer market to get a decent player in!

[Wiwyum]

You actually play my preffered front 3 set up, I explained exactly why I used one winger, 1 inside forward and 1 deeplying striker in the SI Sports Centre thread up top. I just love all the different options you have available and the attacking play is really varied and you create lots of space.

I do however set up my CM's different. I use a DLP defend...

Does this not somewhat take the player out of contention during attacking phases? I was always under the impression it might be best to have the DLP in a supportive roll to ensure he is active when pushing forward?

Damn my poor research!

Inspired by this thread http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/321146-Clean-slate-new-club...-what-s-your-checklist-How-do-you-figure-out-the-best-tactic I have decided to forget downloadable tactics and play FM 2013 as honestly as possible.

...and kudos to you my friend

[Cleon]

Does this not somewhat take the player out of contention during attacking phases? I was always under the impression it might be best to have the DLP in a supportive roll to ensure he is active when pushing forward?

Damn my poor research!

Depends on how you've set up the formation and d-line. My DLP on defend as around 12 goals I think from midfield in 30 games. So it's not a bad return for someone who doesn't take set pieces and plays a deep role. What I find is he is nearly always unmarked because he starts and stays deep but once we attack he hangs back and picks up any loose balls or clearances and builds up attacks. Or sometimes he finds himself unmarked 20 yards out and unleashes a screamer.

The DLP for me is probably the start of everything I create. He's involved in everything, he really is the heart of the team.

[Wiwyum]

This is precisely the sort of thing I am looking for with Barnet. However mine seems to get shut down, or embroiled in horrible 10 minute long lateral passing sessions

[Cleon]

This is precisely the sort of thing I am looking for with Barnet. However mine seems to get shut down, or embroiled in horrible 10 minute long lateral passing sessions

You need to make sure you create movement in front of him to allow him the space and give him options to dictate the game.

[boblardo]

Ok so I made the following changes for the game against Hampton & Richmond

Tactic

Player instructions were amended, FB's & W set to Cross Aim - Target Man, IF set to cut inside

Team Instructions

Match Details

We won the game 1-0

Player Stats

The stats seem much better, obvious things are that some of my players are still giving the ball away too easily especially my GK. I also need to look at the CB's as there passing stats are low but I assume this is to be expected unless I change them to Ball Playing Defenders.

GK Passing Stats

He has been set to defender collect, initially the RB but I changed this to the LB!.

Our crossing was poor, our shots were all outside the box again apart from the goal although I believe they were good chances.

Not sure what I learnt from this game.

[boblardo]

I played my 3rd Friendly which ended in a 2-0 defeat. Kept the same shape but tried a different striker upto, changing his role to a poacher. My AMR had previously had a Winger role was changed to an Advanced Playmaker.

The CM and DLP were switched round.

Match Stats

I dominated play with over 60% possession

My Shots

However all but two of my shots were outside the box.

Opposition Shots

Their goals came from a corner and fortuitous long shot after I had changed to Overload to try and grab a goal.

Player Stats

One or two players are playing out of position, things are looking encouraging but I just need to try and make some clear cut chances.

Next game is a tough one, another friendly against Bristol Rovers!

[emmettk90]

I like the detail

[boblardo]

The game against Bristol Rovers ended in a draw. Although for much of the game Bristol Rovers dominated.

One of their goals was an OG the other was a good goal.

I made some changes during the game, close down more and reduced the tempo slightly. At 80 minutes I took off target man instructions which led to a goal and for the final 5 minutes went more attacking which led to a second goal to grab a late draw.

Another notable change, I had my focus set to mixed but noticed that the CB's were winning a lot of headers so switched focus to both flanks.

Match Stats

Still totally Frustrated right now!!!!

Not sure if it was the changes I made that changed the game or if it was luck but it was satisfying and I actually cheered. However, if anyone would be kind enough to look at one or two of my matches and provide extra tips I would be grateful

Thanks

Bob

[fdawsoniv]

I don't have tactical advise, but a tip on how to approach the game. Don't make too many reaction changes to single games, especially in the preseason, and double especially in your first preseason. Give your team time to settle into it.

[Mighty Red]

I have played a formation with the attacking players set up similarly - including having a poacher. For me, this is the risky bit - I like the idea of having a pacy poacher pushing the opposition defensive line backwards, as it helps create space for the midfielders to play in - but, your midfielders (particularly wide players and DLP) need to have enough quality to exploit this space and find the poacher. Otherwise he becomes isolated and then the majority of your team are parked around the 1/2 way line. So, go for a poacher - but bear in mind that it can cause problems in terms of linking attack with midfield.

[boblardo]

Just played my next two games which happen to both be league games

Won 1-0 (scored a penalty) v Eastbourne Borough

Lost 2-1 v Staines

Both games I was outplayed but I just couldn't see what I needed to change. Against Staines, my Ass Man suggested I needed to tackle more so I upped the tackling.

This is where I now get frustrated!!

PKM v Eastbourne Borough

PKM v Staines

Would appreciate if someone can look at these for me and give me any tips as I really cannot see what or where I am going wrong!

[SnUrF]

Just have to say, love the GK dist. chart .. Just wondering was it the LB or RB who's playing so central.

E: Just to add something. Attacking width; your AML is set to cut inside, so how about giving your LB support duty so he'd give some width on the left flank. Also on the right side, I'd prefer giving the AMR winger role so he'd keep the width and then perhaps give the right side central midfielder license to get forward (CM with attacking duty perhaps), so he'd make runs between your DLF and the right winger, perhaps worth trying giving the AMR winger support duty.

-SnUrF

[boblardo]

gk was set to defender collect. started off as rb but switched to lb. not that it mattered the gk just punted it long

[wez007]

Can you post some position and coverage screenies to analise if players are finding correct space and not getting on top of each other

[boblardo]

Having read a number of posts on this forum I am still totally baffled by this game however the screenshots I posted show a clear problem. I am taking too many long shots and need to create more chances in the box. My question, How do I get my players to create more chances inside the box?

I know I can reduce long shots but will reducing tempo have an impact?

[DocSander]

I am taking too many long shots and need to create more chances in the box. My question, How do I get my players to create more chances inside the box?

I know I can reduce long shots but will reducing tempo have an impact?

There's not one answer or suggestion here, but several different things that lead to players taking long shots.

Most managers would focus on the 'long shots' slider, reduce it to rarely and expect the 'problem' to be over. Only to be disappointed when players still take long shots.

There's also high mentality that may make your players prefer offensive choices over conservative ones and high creative freedom that will allow them to ignore your settings altogether and give long shots a try whatever settings you have them on. In general, in lower leagues, relying on players to make their own choices will not be the best idea.

With all three offensive players on attacking duties, like in your last match, all of them will have relatively high mentalities and CF settings.

My suggestion would be to try and determine if one of them is taking a lot of shots in particular, or if all three of them do.

If it's mainly one of them, you could switch him to support duty.

If it's all three, you may switch the striker to support, with wide players on attack or reverse... Re-evaluate and if the problem persists you may need to tune further with shouts (work ball into box) or downgrading your strategy setting...

Good luck!

[boblardo]

Heres an example

My player has the ball, to me the best attacking pass would be to play the ball to the player at the top of the screen who can then cross the ball for my striker to head home virtually unmarked. does my player do this, No, he passes inside to a player who is surrounded by yellow shirts and ultimately ends up getting tackled

I don't get it, I don't know how to change it. it seems simple but I just don't get it

[Cleon]

Heres an example

My player has the ball, to me the best attacking pass would be to play the ball to the player at the top of the screen who can then cross the ball for my striker to head home virtually unmarked. does my player do this, No, he passes inside to a player who is surrounded by yellow shirts and ultimately ends up getting tackled

I don't get it, I don't know how to change it. it seems simple but I just don't get it

He can't pass to the player you suggest because he's behind him so he can't see him. He passes to the player surrounded by yellow shirts because he has no better viable option. Look at the screenshot. Where is the support and unmarked playes for him to pass to? There i no-one creating space in the above image.

[boblardo]

Heres one of the goals I conceded

Part 1

My RB is marking the player but then goes to close down the player with the ball

Part 2

This leaves a big gap behind him, the pass is played and the team score a goal

He is set to support role so one option could be to change to a defensive role but watching the whole match I didn't see this occur too often

[boblardo]

He can't pass to the player you suggest because he's behind him so he can't see him. He passes to the player surrounded by yellow shirts because he has no better viable option. Look at the screenshot. Where is the support and unmarked playes for him to pass to? There i no-one creating space in the above image.

Thanks for replying, I see your point but there in lies my problem. I have no idea what to change to make this better

[Cleon]

Heres one of the goals I conceded

Part 1

My RB is marking the player but then goes to close down the player with the ball

Part 2

This leaves a big gap behind him, the pass is played and the team score a goal

He is set to support role so one option could be to change to a defensive role but watching the whole match I didn't see this occur too often

You've got the team to close down quite heavily though? If not this screen is from before the patch?

[boblardo]

You've got the team to close down quite heavily though? If not this screen is from before the patch?

Im still playing the demo, trying to get to grips before I make the investment in the full game. Last thing I want is to give up and not play the game having spent £30. ;-)

[Cleon]

Im still playing the demo, trying to get to grips before I make the investment in the full game. Last thing I want is to give up and not play the game having spent £30. ;-)

The current ME is totally different from the demo now with yesterdays patch

You might want to read these though as they should help you with the first problem I responded to.

Creating a Potent Tactical System

Mechanising the Play - Emptying Space and Discovered Attacks

[ashlfcowen]

You actually play my preffered front 3 set up, I explained exactly why I used one winger, 1 inside forward and 1 deeplying striker in the SI Sports Centre thread up top. I just love all the different options you have available and the attacking play is really varied and you create lots of space.

I do however set up my CM's different. I use a DLP defend, CM auto to help link up the play between the front 3. The DMC sits and covers the back 4 and the DLP is the main passing outlet of the team and spreads play wide etc. He is like the Joe Allen kind of player, keeps things simple and helps distribute the ball. I leave the other CM on auto as then he will change what's expected of him based on the strategy I am using at the time.

I'm not a fan of BWM's as they run about like headless chickens and don't offer much in going forward terms. They leave big gaps in the middle and often get caught or dragged out of position.

Cleon do you explain in detail your front 3 in this post? I can't seem to find it and I'm intrigued to see if you have specific settings. Boblardo, how effective is your inside forward?