[FM13] Complete Trinidad and Tobago League Structure [WIP]

[V50]

Me again,

Following on from FM12 I've had to re-recreate from scratch the entire Trinidad League structure. However, due to current editor bugs it's still a WIP.

Finalised league will have the following;

*League structure down to the lowest level (Regional Divisions, such as Tobago First Division, SFA Roy Jagroopsingh Second Division)

*"Big 6" competition for promotion to the bmobile National Super League (Winners of regional premier divisions enter a league system to decide which 3 of the 6 get promoted)

*All leagues will be sustainable, i.e. finances ok, wide variety of awards given, prize money given

*Complete Squads for TT Pro teams

*Over 80 new cities in T&T, and all cities have accurate latitude/longitude

*Over 70 new Clubs, with the aim of all clubs having a founding date (so that you can get anniversary news)

*6 Derbies (this is a creative decision to represent some of the more sensible rivalries that might be there)

*All teams assigned a stadium and city

*Working League Structure (Unable to test due to editor bugs at the moment)

*Accurate National Team Staff

*55 New Stadiums (mostly Recreational Grounds which clubs in T&T rent out for games)

Soon I'll have just the top two leagues running (TT Pro and Super League), which is the limit until the editor is patched (due to playoff promotion bug).

[V50]

*Reserved*

[V50]

Other Work

Caribbean League Megapack (inc. Trinidad and Tobago); http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/330989-V50-s-Caribbean-Leagues

Previous Work

FM12

Complete T&T League Structure for FM2012 - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/311768-FM2012-Trinidad-and-Tobago-Complete

V50's African and Caribbean leagues - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/301729-Tiresais-African-amp-Other-Leagues

[Colorado]

Will you be turning your hand to any more Carribean projects after this? Great to see you've gone into a lot of detail on this.

Are league reps and prize money realistic?

[V50]

Prize money started realistic as there is actual figures for it (TTguardian and Express give the prize money for the FA trophy as $20,000 TT, which is equivalent to £2000 for example), but for financial stability, and to closer represent the nature of Football Manager (inevitable wage inflation happens), I converted TT to GBP in a 1:1 conversion rate. This is because the prize money quickly becomes irrelevant if I didn't and that didn't seem an ideal solution. Indeed financial stability is the most mind-intensive part of creating leagues - a lot of people release financially screwed leagues which aren't much fun to play and I try to avoid that.

League reps are also realistic - TT Pro's reputation is below that of Jamaica but above the rest of the Caribbean (I'm torn on whether to make Haiti equal to Trinidad it or less). Last year I toyed with increasing TT's league rep but that produced unrealistic situations such as Trinidad buying up all of Brazil if you load Brazil, or player evaluations that are too high.

I plan on releasing all of the Caribbean except Jamaica, as that was done really well last year by someone else. The eventual aim is to make the CFU Club Championship, but that's new ground for me so I'm quite apprehensive. The main problem is that half the Caribbean leagues don't exist in the database at all and would require setting up the CFU CLub Championship to take clubs from created leagues. I don't know how that'll work, which is why I'm hoping that the person who did it last year will do it again!

At the moment I'm testing the following nations;

Aguilla,

Barbados,

Curacao,

Haiti

St. Kitts and Nevis

Suriname

Trinidad and Tobago

And due to editor bugs I can't test;

Antigua and Barbuda

Cuba

But I'm having problems with the top two's (Anguilla, Barbados) awards (they're not working for some reason right now). The next leagues to be made will probably be Barbados, Guyana, Greneda, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines.

[Suede2]

You can create a CFU Championship, I already have one created and you only need to choose the countries required. The problem you will have is that some countires don't always send a team. Therefore there is no set structure, and they seem to work it out each year depending on which countries wish to enter teams. Some eligible countries have never sent a team.

I've got one I can up load, it's by no means perfect, but it works. I've also noticed that their was a NA Champions League File made last year which made the top 3 finishers of the CFU qualify for the NACL. I've got last years that was made and it seems to work still, i think it was by someone called JBZ? But could be wrong.

I can put them both here for download, and include by up do British Virgin Islands League when I finish it later.

[V50]

Yea I used jbz's file last year, this year it's easier as you can just pick the nations, which makes my previous comment irrelevant. The problem is that without the advanced editor, or knowing how the xml file works, I can't set up the 3rd place playoff, which means CONCACAF qualification isn't going to work properly.

In terms of format they state it in their rules and regulations - http://www.caribbeanfootballunion.org/home/2010pdf/2011ccreg.pdf - there are a maximum 3 elimimation stages followed by the semi-final and final. The format isn't an issue anymore, just the stages (hence my other post).

[Suede2]

Yeah, you can't use the basic editor to set the 3rd place playoff.

So in the CFU file that was available, the semi final stage was turned in to a four team league where they played each other once. Then JBZ's NACL file selected the top three teams in that league. I have tested it for 3 seasons, and it does seem to work properly. What I've also struggled to find out, is if there is any prize money given in the CFU Championship. What little info I've found suggests none. I was going to rework mine tonight, I can send you the current one, or the updated one if it works. I wish to include more teams, it's currently set to 24. Was going to try and make it 32.

[jahruze23]

niceee!!

[V50]

One of the issues with the CFU Club Championship is that there is no prize money in the early rounds - this is why teams usually don't sign up for it - it can cost a lot of money to fly 30 people over for the games and with no prize money it's a pure loss (given attendances rarely ever get about 1000 outside of Haiti). Thus in my file I've made the CFU give prize money to cover the flights in the qualifying rounds (£25k) but to subsidise half the flights if they lose (10k). In the later rounds I've given around 75k, 100k, and 150k to win outright if I remember correctly - the main point of the CFU is not its prize money but qualification to the NACL (where you can earn a cool million by getting to the group stages).

But yea excellent solution there. Has JBZ released stuff for FM2013 then? I couldn't find his stuff this year. If he's still editing I'd definitely bow to his superior editing on continental cups (as last year his CFU and CONCACAF Champs league were excellent).

Oh and on teams - each Caribbean nation has by right one spot, more than one is by agreement, but typically it's who can afford to send two (I haven't seen evidence for more than two). The numbers for me aren't solid yet, but I plan on having second teams from the top Caribbean nations and having them enter a qualification round with the weaker Caribbean nations' first teams.

[Suede2]

Yeah, I was pretty sure there was no prize money. But like you I added a little for the reasons you've given, although no where near as much. I think the winner makes $25k?

I noticed that with teams most only have one spot, but Puerto Rico always seem to have two and so do Trinidad and Tobago. So I've essentially left it like that, I think 4-5 nations have two qualifiers and the rest have one. I did that to get a nice number of teams (24). Also be aware that the United States Virgin Islands qualifier is done via a cup and not league position. They have two island leagues, and the top two of each league play each other to a final and the winner of that gets the opportunity to play in CFU.

No idea if JBZ has released anything this year. I just gave up trying to create my own so used his and it worked thankfully. I'm planning a career save in Caribbean so I'm happy with how they both work, knowing that they'll never be accurate but pretty close is fine with me.

Do you want copies of my files? If so, msg me you email and I'll reply with them when I get home after work.

Also, when do you think some of your leagues may be ready?

[V50]

The problem with 25k for the winner is that literally covers the air-fare and nothing else. Such a system will likely be the financial ruin of a middling team in the Caribbean that makes it through a couple rounds (e..g a Saint Kitts and Nevis team), as the airfare will equal half the costs for the whole year for an amateur team. Moreover, being in a continental cup will likely make the club turn semi-pro and massively increase their costs.

Given past years, it seems like who can afford to turn up (with a max of two per nation) as Saint Vincent and the Grenadines have sent two teams before. In USVI's case does that mean we'd have to exclude them from the nation list and specify picking that cup's winner? If they're included as a nation then, since team picking is done by relative ranking, it'll take their league winner as well (which given complaints in Mexico's two stages probably means randomly picking from the two leagues). Of course the USVI's cup is probably not in the database, which would ean assigning a specific unique ID in the database, and then having the users activate the USVI nation rules database as well (JBZ did it with Antigua and the Bahamas last year).

So you're using JBZ's CFU from last year? and it picks clubs appropriately? I'd love a copy of the files.

I am actually at the stage where I think most of them are ready to be honest - All those leagues not requiring both a promotion and relegation playoff are working perfectly, apart from the end-of-season awards for Anguilla and The Bahamas (which strangely are the two I've made on my laptop rather than my home PC). If the awards don't work for the Aruban league I just made on my laptop then I'll know what the problem is! I'm cautious to release them as I'm still not sure on the financials, although I am confident a player will do fine with them. I'm also cautious about releasing them without the CFU Club Championship, as it's quite important for anyone waning to drive forward the country's league reputation and worldy standing.

I'll release some tonight if you like?

[Suede2]

I understand about the payments, but as they don't have a sponsor and the CFU themselves have no money from what I can gather

I didn't want to give them too much. I think I gave the team something like $500 for appearing, but each to their own and you should do what you think is right. They will earn thousands from gate fees as they advance.

I am not at home so I can't see the editor right now. However once you chose the nations, do you not choose the nation and how it's qualification works on the next screen? The screen where you can set if it is to become a seed? Because from there you are able to set if it's a league winner from that nation or another way. I had it set to Main Domestic Cup, because that is the only cup the USVI have. At least that is what I did last year when I created the USVI and BVI league. If no one creates a USVI league, then it doesn't really matter how they qualify. However I may build it again, so that's why I made sure they qualified correctly just incase. You don't need to add national rules for each country, or at least I haven't and it works.

I'm using my Created CFU file, and JBZ's NACL Rebuild that was originally done using the advanced panels in FM12 editor. It seems to work so far, however I do believe that sometimes an extra Mexican team qualified or something which he could never fix. However it works accurately enough for me so I'm happy to use it.

[Suede2]

If you could upload the T&T league that would be good.

[V50]

Still sorting financials - there's a bug here where a club will have an average of say 600 in the top league from game start, but if they get relegated and then re-promoted they'll get an extra 1000 or two extra average attendance. As a stop-gap I'll just have to make the average attendance around that figure for top clubs, otherwise you'll be severely penalised for not getting yourself relegated...

[V50]

Got CFU problems - LA galaxy and New York keep joining, whilst Puerto Rico Islanders and Antigua Barracudas are also in there (allocations inc. american teams goes down by one, replaced with USA teams). This happens after 2014 for me, does this happen to you?

[Suede2]

No, but there shouldn't be any American teams that are able to qualify. I want to change something later than I will upload them. I technically have two. A more correct one, and a slightly expanded with a few extra teams.

[V50]

I believe it's doing it because I pick specifically Puerto Rico Islanders and Antigua Barracudas in order to have them in the CFU. Will try without specifically picking them when I get home

[Suede2]

So when you choose them as a specific team they don't always get picked each season?

I don't currently have that, I just have top qualifiers or cup qualifiers of their respective nations. Was going to try that out myself later. Will let you know how I get on.

[V50]

They are picked every year, but when 2014 ticks over Puerto Rico and Antigua stop sending 3 teams (2 from league plus specific team each) and send 2 each (one home, one specific). Instead of those extra places being assigned to a caribbean team, they're assigned to New York and Los Angeles (the highest reputation American teams). I will try removing specific team allocation and instead keeping nations and see if that allows the two teams to still be a part (what's probably happening is that the islanders and barracudas are taking a puerto rico and antiguan spot respectively, and thus the "specific team" slot is filled by a team from the same competition nation, namely America)

[Suede2]

Yeah, that's possible. I was going to add them on mine later and see what happens, so I'll let you know.

[Suede2]

Ok, yes what happens on yours with the higher rep teams from USA happens to me. It brings in the other teams. So I'm going to revert to how it was and release mine because that worked fine.

[V50]

Thanks for the confirmation, was pulling my hair out here!

[themodelcitizen]

If you can get Bermuda Hogges in too, they're a US-based team. Though even if you modify the NACL and they get in, it screws up the seeding as it recognizes them as an American team.

On the subject of a Caribbean save, you should set up Martinique and Guadeloupe -- enable France and a team from each country gets into the French Cup 7th round. I couldn't figure out if it took the league winner, cup winner or top rep team though. Imagine if you won -- would you get in the UEFA Cup the next year?

[V50]

Hah that could really mess things up! Martinique and Guadeloupe are my next two though. You're right completely forgot about the Hogges. I think the solution at the moment is to ignore them and pick their nation - I'm about to make a fully-fleshed Puerto Rico league to see if having a loaded Puerto Rican League rules the Islanders out.

[V50]

As I suspected - with a formal league in Puerto Rico, the Islanders don't get a look-in. I will try now picking them as a specific team and see if that undoes the bug

[V50]

It does undo the bug - so we have two solutions - don't pick them specifically and don't have a datafile creating their league, or have a datafile that creates their league and pick them specifically

[themodelcitizen]

Do you have the Tobago Cup? Last year I added it as an "other cup" and just hand-selected the lower-division teams from the island. Nice bonus if you play as Tobago Utd. I think the competition is already in the db.

[V50]

Yup I've got the Tobago cup, in fact if the editor weren't so buggy I'd have both Tobagoan leagues - the version I'm able to release soon has only the top two divisions enabled because the editor won't accept the 'super 6' qualification from the feeder leagues to the Super League (worked fine last year)