ViG1980 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I am currently playing a 4-4-2 setup like below but pretty much always have lower possession: GK: Normal RB: Auto CB: Defend CB: Defend LB: Auto RM: Wide Midlfielder, Attack CM: DLP, Defend (sometimes CM role) CM: AP, Attack LM: Wide Mid, Attack FC: DLF, Support FC: AF, Attack I've tried this with bot direct passing and mixed and cannot for the life of me get them to have a high 5 of passing. I have players that are good quality for the league we are in (League 2). Any thoughts? I can provide more info if you need it but I have not done anything else with the tactics. Is it just my players? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViG1980 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 I'll also add that (probably because of the above) they are having many more chances than I am. I've never struggled with an FM as much as this one and I don't want to ever have to use someone else's tactics! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattp1980 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 If this is using a standard team mentality then try dropping a few of the players into defend and support mentalities, if it is attacking team then change the mentality to a standard one. Personally in a 442 I like to use two DLP on defend as I like to set my CM up to keep possession but as you're using WMs instead of Wingers I don't think you need to be that extreme. When playing a team with 3 in the middle your effectively using 1 CM v 3 CM as the other 3 in your 4 have been instructed to push up the field, this also means that once the DLP steps back and they push forward you're creating a huge space in the middle of the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Make sure your players choose the less risky pass above all. Not too much dribbling, long shots and through balls because each of those options is risky in terms of possession. Possession is overrated though, you needto control the ball only where it matters, in and around the oppositions box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViG1980 Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thanks for the advice - I will give it a try. Do you find that using winger role in a 4-4-2 works well? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Thanks for the advice - I will give it a try.Do you find that using winger role in a 4-4-2 works well? Yes, but not in terms of posession because wingers will try to dribble more and loose the ball because of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Ok there are a few fairly obvious points - both good and bad so here goes: Your defensive set up appears well balanced - are those full back and central defender roles? As Limited Defenders play the ball long and this gives away possession. Your midfield has three attacking roles which is about 2 too many. The only non-attacking player is a DLP (Defend) - and he has a lower mentality than ANY of the other midfield roles and duties. So you have a huge gap between the DLP and the other 3 midfielders - resulting in risky long passes. Direct passing is more likely to give the ball away. If you want possession play short passes. A Deep-Lying Playmaker can work with a possession tactic (I have a DLP playing in my possession tactic). It is generally more suited to a counter-attacking style. Your striker combo is a really sensible mix, good work. So try making your midfield a combo like this: Attack-Support-Defend-Support - consider changing automatic duties on the full backs to complement your wide-men. I.e. Attack duty full back behind support wide midfield and vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I am having an issue with keeping the ball as well. Playing 4-5-1 with Arsenal and the issue is the widemen keep giving it away. They are currently either an IF (A) or (S) however it doesn't seem to make any difference which one they are Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I am having an issue with keeping the ball as well. Playing 4-5-1 with Arsenal and the issue is the widemen keep giving it away. They are currently either an IF (A) or (S) however it doesn't seem to make any difference which one they are what else are you doing tactically? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 what else are you doing tactically? Fluid, shorter passing, zonal marking, press more. Everything else is default. Control. GK SK (d) DR FB (Auto) DC © BPD (x) DL FB (A) DM Anchor MC AP (s) MC AP (s) Wingers as mentioned ST DLF (A) The two CMs are set up to roam from position Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I am having an issue with keeping the ball as well. Playing 4-5-1 with Arsenal and the issue is the widemen keep giving it away. They are currently either an IF (A) or (S) however it doesn't seem to make any difference which one they are IF(A) looked to run with the ball first. IF(S) looks to run with the ball or do a through ball before anything else. There is a great chance of losing the ball when dribbling and performing a through ball. IF's are not great for keeping possession but are a necessary evil for unlocking that last defender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Indeed it is a balancing act however I do need to keep the ball better and them and my defence are the biggest culprits. The defence is mainly because of the amount of clearances they make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Try changing the Sweeper keeper to a regular Keeper. I'm not sure but it help me keep the ball better. It could also be the your defenders don't have an option so play safe and kick it long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Sorry, just noticed you have 2 AP's in midfield. Their mentality is higher so that they can sit between your opponents defensive line and midfield but that results in your central midfielders being pushed up away from you defenders. Also an Archorman sits deeper as well and is not great a distributing the ball. All this leads to is no short pass for defenders. Try changing one of the AP's role or the Anchorman to a DM or DLP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The principal behind the two AP (s) was to create an almost double pivot. It is a concept I would like to keep Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeKay Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The principal behind the two AP (s) was to create an almost double pivot. It is a concept I would like to keep How is that working for you? An interesting idea pushing up the double pivot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garate Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Try high time wasting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
axehan1 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The principal behind the two AP (s) was to create an almost double pivot. It is a concept I would like to keep will that work with an anchor man?he wont venture forward will he?isnt that the idea behind the double pivot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 will that work with an anchor man?he wont venture forward will he?isnt that the idea behind the double pivot? maybe a defensive midfielder instead of an anchorman? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 How is that working for you? An interesting idea pushing up the double pivot It is good to watch and the partnership works well. Originally I played 4-2-3-1 however I didn't like how overrun I became in midfield with the AMC not tracking back. will that work with an anchor man?he wont venture forward will he?isnt that the idea behind the double pivot? The idea behind the anchorman, or DLP have swapped that around, is that it frees up the players in front who shouldn't move too far forwards because they are on support roles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Try changing the Sweeper keeper to a regular Keeper. I'm not sure but it help me keep the ball better.It could also be the your defenders don't have an option so play safe and kick it long This is something I have little idea how to fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Defender Collect - set either full back, as they will drop deeper to recieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Defender Collect - set either full back, as they will drop deeper to recieve. Have that it is just what happens next which is the issue. It ends up with them passing inside and it is hoofed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 It's not always a good idea to ask a fullback to collect the ball because they are often marked by the oppositions wide players so you won't actually build possession like you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 It's not always a good idea to ask a fullback to collect the ball because they are often marked by the oppositions wide players so you won't actually build possession like you want. Would you recommend just leaving it as mixed then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 SJ234, This is how I play my 4-1-2-2-1 with Barca: GK=SK-d (distribution: defernders collect and to one of my DCs) DR=WB-s DC=CD-d DC=CD-d DL=WB-s DM=DM-d MCR=DLP-s MCL=AP-s AMR=IF-s/W-s AML=IF-a ST=T-a I use Balanced Philosophy and Control Strategy to start. Pass shorter, Press More, Zonal Marking (everyone is individually ticked to "tight" and "zonal"), Drill Crosses and More Roaming. Creative Freedom and Tackling are on Default. My DLP is set as the Playmaker and he makes the most passes almost every game. The shouts I use at start of a game are: Push Higher Up, Hassle Opponents and Stay on Feet. My 2 MCs specifically man-mark the opposition's 2 MCs/DMs when playing against 4-2-3-1 and 4-4-2. I always have more possession even against the likes of Real M. It ranges from 55% to 70% depending on adjustments and what I want to do in a specific games. My pass completion is usually between 85% and 90%+. If I want more/better possession I add shouts: Retain Possession, Pass to Feet, Play Through Defense (reduces RWB) and Play out of Defense. At times I also change my AP-s into DLP-s, change my DLP-s to Defend duty and change my IF-a (AML) into another IF-s. In this case I remove the shout "Push Higher Up". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Some good ideas there which I am currently implementing or will use Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViG1980 Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'm liking a lot of what I see here. Going to try some out. I have found that keep Possession shout is helping but I score fewer. My 2 CMs in the 4-4-2 are BWM and CM roles. I really want to play a 4-1-2-2-1 but I'm in league 2 and feel that my players don't have the physical attributes to play this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Would you recommend just leaving it as mixed then? You'll have to look at the game and see where the space is. If you have a strong attacker that wins most challenges of his marker, it might be better to distribute it to him, if the opposition doesn't mark your FB, you can distribute to them,.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Some good ideas there which I am currently implementing or will use Just FYI, I'm now using both of my Inside Forwards on Support duty all the time. It improves my possession a bit, without hurting my goalscoring ability. In fact I've started scoring more than before. I'm liking a lot of what I see here. Going to try some out. I have found that keep Possession shout is helping but I score fewer. My 2 CMs in the 4-4-2 are BWM and CM roles. I really want to play a 4-1-2-2-1 but I'm in league 2 and feel that my players don't have the physical attributes to play this. What physical attributes do you think are required to play 4-1-2-2-1? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViG1980 Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 What physical attributes do you think are required to play 4-1-2-2-1? I find that with that formation there are large gaps and I need players with more stamina and pace etc. It might be that my roles/duties are not setup very well but I find the opposition taking advantage of the huge hole between my mids and forwards. I also find the wingers do not get back well at all or find themselves sprinting back when the opposition goes on the attach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonko Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I find that with that formation there are large gaps and I need players with more stamina and pace etc. It might be that my roles/duties are not setup very well but I find the opposition taking advantage of the huge hole between my mids and forwards. I also find the wingers do not get back well at all or find themselves sprinting back when the opposition goes on the attach. I haven't noticed such a thing. As you said, it could be the roles you choose. But gaps can happen in any formation if the wrong roles are chosen for players. As for the AMR/L tracking back, I'm pretty pleased how they do it when selected to play as Inside Forwards on Support duty. In addition, you could also instruct them to man-mark the opposition's fullbacks. BTW, tracking back also depends on their Teamwork and/or Workrate attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViG1980 Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 It's a good point - I tried the IF role and it worked great for 10-15 games and then my team just started losing every game. In fact, this has happened to me at every team in FM13. Go on a great run of about 15 games then go on a losing streak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 It's a good point - I tried the IF role and it worked great for 10-15 games and then my team just started losing every game. In fact, this has happened to me at every team in FM13. Go on a great run of about 15 games then go on a losing streak. maybe a change of weather and conditions is affecting you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Jesus christ my keeper just keeps losing me possession it is infuriating Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak71 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Hi mates, Need some answers here, please. I'm playing in EPL with spurs. I'm into first season, somewhere in the month of september. Been trying to play attacking possession football. At the moment, could only muster between 50-60% of possession. My setting for general training is very high for team cohesion. My question is, as my team move on through the season, can we have more than 60% of possession in each match and especially against weaker teams, just like barcelona..? Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contexx Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Just like Barcelona? Put Xavi, Iniesta, and their friends in your team! The thing is, in the center of the pitch, it's really hard but certainly not impossible to have very high posession, especially in the premiership where teams play more high tempo. Don't forget that winter is a big mess, and it's hard to play that way. I do agree with the combo of Anchorman + 2 AP's as being counterproductive for possession style football, where I find a deep lying playmaker is very important - basically someone who will stop the game, dictate the tempo, and distribute the ball. In my set up, I have two midfielders whose PPM's are "dictates tempo" and regularly have high posession. However, from time to time using a DLP in a defensive midfield spot is effective, if you've got the player for it - nothing worse than having a deep lying playmaker with poor anticipation and composure who get bullied off the ball in dangerous positions. Personally, I find the obsession with high possession a bit overrated - if you don't have the quality of players it can prove to be a distractions. There are times when the opposition, weather, or players just don't let you play that way - exploit it and use it to your advantage. For example, at Spurs, you've got pacy wingers whom you don't want to play tika-taka, as romantic as it may seem. As for Inside forwards, when teams play very narrow and deep, it doesn't leave them much room to cut inside. Try having more attacking fullbacks supporting them or playing wider to engineer the space. Also, with Inside forwards, they need to have excellent technique, especially in bad weather or during overall dips in form. It's always an ugly sight to watch a dribbler run into wall after wall of tackles and get nowhere, and will especially hurt those holy possession stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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