Jump to content

"Dominating" games but issues with creating chances, pressing with a big team/small pond


Recommended Posts

Going to be going in detail so I can get as much help as I can

The situation: It's 2018, and I'm playing as UCD in Ireland. Slowly built us up over the first 4 years before winning the title, and haven't lost it since. We've made it to the playoffs of the CL twice (lucky draw the first time, second time it was a "everyone underestimates us, counterattack to victory"). Last year was the golden year where we dominated our way to the CL group stages (beating Linfield, Celtic (the tricky one), and Djurgardens). We have money, and we have decent players now.

However, the problem is now that we're the big club in Ireland, I'm having huge issues domestically, to the point where we almost lost the title to Sligo Rovers last year (won on the last day), and now we're 3 points behind with a game in hand, with 1/3rd of the season left. If we miss the CL, I fear the worst as we have quite a lot of salary in players now.

The primary problems: I can't sort out my tactics. We're having major issues vs the smaller teams in the league. We have an excellent team for this level, but I can't figure out the right balance between pressing, trying to dominate a game, creating chances, and avoiding counter-attacks from the small teams that play ultra defensively vs us, especially since we're favored by large odds every game. Home games seem to be fine, but away games I can't figure it out. We've gotten lucky the last 2 games with 1-0 wins away from home, but we absolutely dominated both games and should not have even been close. We only won on a corner for the last one, and had 1 CCC, and the previous game, 0 CCC and only won because my striker jumped over 4 of their defenders for a goal.

Last year, same problem. Home form won us the title, and we barely won enough games away from home to win it all. This should be a lot easier than it is with the quality of my team, but it isn't. I've switched tactics this year to a more expressive, pressing style, with shorter passing but overall quicker tempo and higher mentalities to combat the extreme defensiveness of certain teams, but is this the correct way to address the problem?

The Analysis: Here is where I see some of the problems with my tactics so far. Let's take 3 of my recent away games.

The tactic:

0p3Fm.jpg

Shelbourne 1-1 UCD

bGvVdh.jpg

Not a lot of good shots. A lot of the close range efforts were off of corners, and the winner came off of one. We aren't getting good chances. The AP is a 17 passing/14 creativity/high teamwork/workrate. He should be getting more chances into my players but he isn't.

uJMBHh.jpg

"Dominating", but we ended up conceding on a counter, which makes me scared to play so aggressively.

We used the same tactic vs a team of similar quality in Waterford Utd. The results, however, much different, but a similar score.

Waterford Utd 0-1 UCD

QGRU1h.jpg

We should have lost this game. Or at least drawn. Similar shot spray as the last one, with most of the good chances coming off of corners, or lucky crosses. No CCC, but we won the game because of my targetman jumping over 4 defenders off a cross and scoring.

They had very good spells in this game, and I was fearful of their counters (GK saved an important CCC off a counter for them). I'm worried about not creating chances and the counters, so I decided to slow the game down, going down slightly on tempo/width, reducing the d-line, and going from control to standard.

However, same problems next away game.

Drogheda Utd 0-1 UCD

NC43kh.jpg

Still no central chances. Still relying on corners (goal comes off a corner to win). Still fearful of counters, and we actually cede more possession, but I'm not too worried about this.

So it seems I've rectified the issues of conceding scary counters with this, but still we create no chances. What should I do to try to create chances on the road? This has been happening for over a year now, and even with more expansive play, and more width, my team struggles to create chances. If I go too high mentality wise, we concede on counters, but staying too low gives us a lot of long shots, empty possession, and lack of energy in the offensive side of the ball because the opposition is happy to just draw with us since we're seen as the much better side in the league. I'm having tons of problems with even thinking of ideas, as I fear going too far in changing things will just lead to more disjointed team performances which we can't afford.

Thanks in advance, will respond to various questions and such to try to sort it out

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your doing exactly the same things everybody else whose having trouble is doing.

1: Ticking specific instructions. Leave them on default. Making them manual offers no major advantage (as you haven't changed them much) and hinders the effect shouts have

2: Using an Attack duty lone forward who offers no support play. Choose a more creative role, i.e DLF/S, CF/S, TQ

3: Not getting a FB to move between the lines by giving him an attack duty

4: Attacking exactly the same way down both flanks. Far better to have an FB/A and AM/S on one flank and an FB/S, AM/A on the other as it will create different chance types

Link to post
Share on other sites

1)Yeah, I have this sort of love/hate relationship with not ticking. It feels like the shouts adjust a little too much sometimes when I want to make small changes to the way I play, IE drop deeper may give me more space ahead of the defensive line (good), but it may reduce closing down too much (bad) and give too much space to the opposition, and counter acting it with hassle opponents may increase closing down too much blah blah, it's just a huge chain reaction. I had problems with it before in terms of not giving my starting play the way I wanted it to be, but I'll try it once more. It just feels shouts might have too much impact in certain cases when I want to make small adjustments.

2) Problem with my strikers are: very low creativity. I'm afraid of giving him a more support role because I'm scared of his lack of creativity, but is TM (s) or CF (s) just perfect for him? The fear I have of non-attacking duties are that I rely on others to score more and not all of the are amazing finishers. Primary striker here: http://i.imgur.com/nz4m5.jpg

3+4) Makes a lot of sense, the only fear is again the counter attacks that occur down that flank. But I will admit I haven't thought of the varying chances created by different roles on the 2 flanks. I figure having 1 IF and 1 Winger should do enough of that for me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1: Everything is relative and that is part of the decision making process. Do I drop deeper and sacrifice closing down, or do I keep pressing? Trying to get the best of both worlds is more likely to produce holes in your own tactic than coherent football.

2: Looks a perfectly adequate lower level DLF/S to me. He won't create lots of chances, but he can pass, has good workrate, teamwork and physical stats. Players should be able to play off him very well.

3+4: You need to get one FB up in order to open passing lanes. Currently, too much of your play is channelled to one point, which is why you are struggling with a higher rep. You have to create multiple chance types as it is too easy for defensive teams to crowd out a single target. The benefits of getting him up will far outweigh the small extra risk of the counter. It might even hep prevent counters, as you'll have more passing options and thus reduce the chance of losing possession in dangerous areas.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems I'm doing a lot better since I implemented the changes to the fullbacks and switching to a standard system with more shout usage. Still have some games where I don't score much, but they are much fewer with the rotation of better finishers into my squad. Thanks for the help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your doing exactly the same things everybody else whose having trouble is doing.

1: Ticking specific instructions. Leave them on default. Making them manual offers no major advantage (as you haven't changed them much) and hinders the effect shouts have

2: Using an Attack duty lone forward who offers no support play. Choose a more creative role, i.e DLF/S, CF/S, TQ

3: Not getting a FB to move between the lines by giving him an attack duty

4: Attacking exactly the same way down both flanks. Far better to have an FB/A and AM/S on one flank and an FB/S, AM/A on the other as it will create different chance types

I wonder why?

1) Don't alter the default team instructions that the tactical creator provides.

4) Change the duties that the tactical creator provides because they make you too predictable.

Its a mixed message. Amend or not?

Maybe in the Champions League and top divisions across Europe you do need to be as cute tactically as the game seems to require but in the lower leagues I think and with the most dominant team in the league (as per this example) it seems OTT.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I realise you have a personal agenda, but giving users tactical settings that automatically guarantee great results is not good gameplay. Part of winning is learning to win, not just pressing continue.

This is not rocket science. It is about ensuring you have a balanced formation creating multiple chance types, which requires the right players in the right positions and some players moving between the lines. It takes roughly two minutes to set up a tactic like that.

The reason everybody is struggling is that so many people in FM11/12 were taking advantage of the 'no collision detection' and channeling all their play to one single point of attack. If people can't see why that shouldn't work, and that it not working is a major point of improvement, then there's no hope.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really a personal agenda as such. I just think there has been a bit of lost perspective over at SI Towers. I just comment on the odd post when I look in here but overall as an observer I get the impression that SI is somehow "telling off" its own customers for having success at previous versions of this series and I don't know why.

Still whatever either of us think about the match engine we should both be agreed that its really great players that make great teams and the tactics just provide the platform for them to play. This version of FM though is too far leant towards the idea that a tactic makes a great team. In a weird kind of way the game has become what you say you're trying to avoid. Another mixed message. One that says super tactics don't exist and another that says you only succeed with the right tactical ingredient. I'll go one step further and add that for a lot of people the game has actually become too difficult.

I don't expect for one minute for anyone from SI to agree with that statement but it is my opinion. Maybe I'm a lone voice. Then again maybe I'm not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really a personal agenda as such. I just think there has been a bit of lost perspective over at SI Towers. I just comment on the odd post when I look in here but overall as an observer I get the impression that SI is somehow "telling off" its own customers for having success at previous versions of this series and I don't know why.

Still whatever either of us think about the match engine we should both be agreed that its really great players that make great teams and the tactics just provide the platform for them to play. This version of FM though is too far leant towards the idea that a tactic makes a great team. In a weird kind of way the game has become what you say you're trying to avoid. Another mixed message. One that says super tactics don't exist and another that says you only succeed with the right tactical ingredient. I'll go one step further and add that for a lot of people the game has actually become too difficult.

I don't expect for one minute for anyone from SI to agree with that statement but it is my opinion. Maybe I'm a lone voice. Then again maybe I'm not.

I don't agree with the emphasis. You only need a logical tactic to do well. However, if you have a bad/illogical one, you will suffer. This is the whole point of every post I've made. One dimensional tactics did work in FM11/12 because of the lack of collision detection. Channel the play to a quick lone FC and boom, goal. They are no longer working. However, logical, multi-dimensional tactics that worked in FM07/08/09/10/11/12 work just as well in FM13 as they worked in those versions.

The ME changes have helped the AI play on a level playing field. AI teams have basic but logical tactics. They don't try to channel play one dimensionally. What is happening is that users who played that way in FM12 are suffering, because, in basic terms, the AI tactics are more incisive than theirs. They are losing because they have bad tactics, not because they don't have great ones.

Every time I've tried to make this argument, people think I'm blindly defending the ME, which is obscuring the actual point. Although the ME has many flaws, its inherent structure is massively, massively superior, which is illustrated by these results. The only reason we get pissed off is that when we try to explain and help, we are met with a wall of aggression. Wouldn't you get upset at that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick point wwfan - and this isn't meant to overshadow the rest of my post, but I remember you vividly defending the match engine in FM11 when it had flaws you're now freely admitting to existing ;) So I can see why people may think you are blindly defending the system as one of the "old school" members of the board, even if on this occasion it's not a fair accusation at all.

I agree with you completely regarding this version. I've had success with a stopper/cover combination in defense, with the "stopper" central defender on the same side of defence as the aggressive full back.

As Everton for example:

Leighton Baines (Full Back - Attack)

John Heitinga (Central Defender - Stopper)

Phil Jagielka (Central Defender - Cover)

Tony Hibbert (Full Back - Support)

Then I've used various combinations in midfield but I have noticed that the match engine massively supports intuitive tactics that incorporate "stay and go" combinations, such as Ball Winning - Defend and Central Midfielder - Support/Attack.

It's worth setting up the three tactics you're allowed this year. I have one that focuses on left sided attack for the Baines/Pienaar combination (as per real life), one on direct football aimed at hitting Fellaini/Jelavic early and playing off them (Deep Lying Forward - Support, combined with two Inside Forwards from the wing or a Poacher in a two man attack) and another aimed at counter attacking under a rigid system for games against tough opposition.

The game is undoubtedly harder and the ME has bugs galore in it - Howard missed a catch, the ball flew through him, ended up in the back of the net and then magically zipped backwards in time into his grasp, for example! But the game is still playable as long as you're prepared to put the time into thinking logically. I'm struggling tactically myself in certain games and it does take a lot of thought to consistently get results. But I'd much, much prefer that to winning the league immediately as Everton, which I did on FM12 at the first time of asking.

So it's basically about keeping it simple but making sure what you're tactically applying makes sense.

For those who wanted the classic version to be easy to pick up and play... you may have to wait until February as per usual for the "proper" patch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick point wwfan - and this isn't meant to overshadow the rest of my post, but I remember you vividly defending the match engine in FM11 when it had flaws you're now freely admitting to existing ;) So I can see why people may think you are blindly defending the system as one of the "old school" members of the board, even if on this occasion it's not a fair accusation at all.

That's not really true though is it? He knows the difference between a bug and a user created tactical flaw both are different things. But people don't want to hear that and get on wwfan's back when he tries to explain things. If you check back over his FM11 posts you'll see this was the case and if you actually read what he was putting you'd see he pointed out 3 major flaws with that ME publically on the forums. So you a) didn't read properly, b) can't remember correctly or c) just trolling and causing drama. Either way you might want to check your facts next time before making such comments what aren't true. wwfan like everyone else is tired of getting stick thrown his way when he's going out of his way to assist people. If it carries on no-one will help anyone anymore on here, everyone who understands how the game works and are helpful are already showing signs of stopping posting and offering this assistance because they are sick of getting it thrown back in their face.

It's even worse when someone makes things up like you did in the opening senetence and are been selective with their memory

So please leave the drama elsewhere as it won't be tolerated in here at all and lets not say any more on the matter.

............................................................

I agree with you completely regarding this version. I've had success with a stopper/cover combination in defense, with the "stopper" central defender on the same side of defence as the aggressive full back.

As Everton for example:

Leighton Baines (Full Back - Attack)

John Heitinga (Central Defender - Stopper)

Phil Jagielka (Central Defender - Cover)

Tony Hibbert (Full Back - Support)

Then I've used various combinations in midfield but I have noticed that the match engine massively supports intuitive tactics that incorporate "stay and go" combinations, such as Ball Winning - Defend and Central Midfielder - Support/Attack.

It's worth setting up the three tactics you're allowed this year. I have one that focuses on left sided attack for the Baines/Pienaar combination (as per real life), one on direct football aimed at hitting Fellaini/Jelavic early and playing off them (Deep Lying Forward - Support, combined with two Inside Forwards from the wing or a Poacher in a two man attack) and another aimed at counter attacking under a rigid system for games against tough opposition.

The game is undoubtedly harder and the ME has bugs galore in it - Howard missed a catch, the ball flew through him, ended up in the back of the net and then magically zipped backwards in time into his grasp, for example! But the game is still playable as long as you're prepared to put the time into thinking logically. I'm struggling tactically myself in certain games and it does take a lot of thought to consistently get results. But I'd much, much prefer that to winning the league immediately as Everton, which I did on FM12 at the first time of asking.

So it's basically about keeping it simple but making sure what you're tactically applying makes sense.

For those who wanted the classic version to be easy to pick up and play... you may have to wait until February as per usual for the "proper" patch.

A good post :thup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick point wwfan - and this isn't meant to overshadow the rest of my post, but I remember you vividly defending the match engine in FM11 when it had flaws you're now freely admitting to existing ;) So I can see why people may think you are blindly defending the system as one of the "old school" members of the board, even if on this occasion it's not a fair accusation at all.

Not many people get to see quite how critical I can be of the ME or how many bugs I report. I will have comfortably reported more ME bugs over the last 4-5 years than any member of these forums. The point is, and Paul Collyer will back me up, that the ME will always be flawed. There will always be issues and things that aren't quite right. However, the constant of the ME is that it is built around a certain understanding of football logic. Prior to the TC, that logic was extremely simple. The TC has made it far more robust, which is a process that will continue. If you subscribe to that logic, you will have done well in every FM since FM07 and you will hardly had to have change your tactical approach one iota.

The basics are:

1: Make sure you have players moving between the lines

2: Make sure you create one sort of chance type

3: Make sure you have one midfielder doing the dirty work

4: If you use a lone forward, make sure he contributes more than just goals

5: Use the roles, shouts and adjustments to maximise the strength of your team and players

6: Use the OIs to cope with the strengths / target the weaknesses of your opposition

That is about it. What people need to realise that weaknesses in the ME have always, always resulted in other types of tactics succeeding, which is why so many people do well in one FM, then have to start from scratch in the next. Diablo was the most famous, when AI teams were incapable of picking up a long farrowed MCC. Kimz Crazy Arrows tactics had user players running in all directions, stopping the AI from having any chance of marking them. The tactics that have done well in FM11 and FM12 have relied on the lack of collision detection, channelling TBs through to limited, quick lone forward who literally ran through the backline as if it wasn't there. That type of tactic has been stopped because of the collision detection coding. e might end up with a new type of super-tactic, but it won't be one that relies on a lone forward running through a d-line.

That this weakness was in the last ME does not mean previous MEs were not always improving. Each one has rewarded football logical tactics more acutely. Each one patched up holes in the previous version, so tactics like Diablo and Kimz could no longer work. The FM11 and FM12 MEs were excellent because they roughly rewarded each formation shape equally. You couldn't inherently overachieve by playing narrowly or with wingers. Each element worked well enough to support users playing with all types of different formation. However, the AI couldn't stop the run through the defence tactics or ever stop them without serious work. That this has taken 24 months should indicate just how big a job it was. The result is that users employing one dimensional or illogical tactics are suffering and watching their teams put in horrible, horrible performances. They scream, "broken ME". I say "although it has bugs, it is fundamentally superior to those that came before it and it is your illogical tactics causing the horrible play". People don't like to hear that, but I don't see how else to say it.

If you employ basic football logic, you will do well in FM13. I've found it easier than FM12. If you try to play to one target point, you will lose and deservedly so, as you would lose in reality. If you play a lightweight midfield, you will get run through. If you always keep your FBs back, you won't generate passing angles in attack, meaning your tactic will have no bite. You have no idea how much I welcome this kind of thing, as it is evidence that the ME has moved hugely forward. Unfortunately, because of some of its rough spots, people assume their bad performances are down to a buggy ME, not to their tactical prowess (or lack of it). Even though the ME needs to, and will, improve, I will predict that many people will struggle more with the game after it is updated, and will continue to do so until they reevaluate their approach and recognise that their current systems are one-dimensional, ME busting tactics that relied on the lack of collision detection to succeed. However I guarantee that if people do take this kind of advice and information on board and embrace the logic of the ME, they'll enjoy FM13 better than any FM that has ever been produced. Unfortunately, the reaction in this and other forums to the information and advice I give suggests that this might be a long time coming.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not many people get to see quite how critical I can be of the ME or how many bugs I report. I will have comfortably reported more ME bugs over the last 4-5 years than any member of these forums. The point is, and Paul Collyer will back me up, that the ME will always be flawed. There will always be issues and things that aren't quite right. However, the constant of the ME is that it is built around a certain understanding of football logic. Prior to the TC, that logic was extremely simple. The TC has made it far more robust, which is a process that will continue. If you subscribe to that logic, you will have done well in every FM since FM07 and you will hardly had to have change your tactical approach one iota.

The basics are:

1: Make sure you have players moving between the lines

2: Make sure you create one sort of chance type

3: Make sure you have one midfielder doing the dirty work

4: If you use a lone forward, make sure he contributes more than just goals

5: Use the roles, shouts and adjustments to maximise the strength of your team and players

6: Use the OIs to cope with the strengths / target the weaknesses of your opposition

That is about it. What people need to realise that weaknesses in the ME have always, always resulted in other types of tactics succeeding, which is why so many people do well in one FM, then have to start from scratch in the next. Diablo was the most famous, when AI teams were incapable of picking up a long farrowed MCC. Kimz Crazy Arrows tactics had user players running in all directions, stopping the AI from having any chance of marking them. The tactics that have done well in FM11 and FM12 have relied on the lack of collision detection, channelling TBs through to limited, quick lone forward who literally ran through the backline as if it wasn't there. That type of tactic has been stopped because of the collision detection coding. e might end up with a new type of super-tactic, but it won't be one that relies on a lone forward running through a d-line.

That this weakness was in the last ME does not mean previous MEs were not always improving. Each one has rewarded football logical tactics more acutely. Each one patched up holes in the previous version, so tactics like Diablo and Kimz could no longer work. The FM11 and FM12 MEs were excellent because they roughly rewarded each formation shape equally. You couldn't inherently overachieve by playing narrowly or with wingers. Each element worked well enough to support users playing with all types of different formation. However, the AI couldn't stop the run through the defence tactics or ever stop them without serious work. That this has taken 24 months should indicate just how big a job it was. The result is that users employing one dimensional or illogical tactics are suffering and watching their teams put in horrible, horrible performances. They scream, "broken ME". I say "although it has bugs, it is fundamentally superior to those that came before it and it is your illogical tactics causing the horrible play". People don't like to hear that, but I don't see how else to say it.

If you employ basic football logic, you will do well in FM13. I've found it easier than FM12. If you try to play to one target point, you will lose and deservedly so, as you would lose in reality. If you play a lightweight midfield, you will get run through. If you always keep your FBs back, you won't generate passing angles in attack, meaning your tactic will have no bite. You have no idea how much I welcome this kind of thing, as it is evidence that the ME has moved hugely forward. Unfortunately, because of some of its rough spots, people assume their bad performances are down to a buggy ME, not to their tactical prowess (or lack of it). Even though the ME needs to, and will, improve, I will predict that many people will struggle more with the game after it is updated, and will continue to do so until they reevaluate their approach and recognise that their current systems are one-dimensional, ME busting tactics that relied on the lack of collision detection to succeed. However I guarantee that if people do take this kind of advice and information on board and embrace the logic of the ME, they'll enjoy FM13 better than any FM that has ever been produced. Unfortunately, the reaction in this and other forums to the information and advice I give suggests that this might be a long time coming.

Quality post,everybody needs to read this and apply it to their game(s) instead of seeing whose posted it and try and pick the bones out of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed on your last point wwfan. I'm having a lot of fun (and horrible frustration at times!) with this version of FM. All it took last year was 1 fast striker and I felt invincible no matter what level.

Back to talking about my problems. Having a few issues again. Last season I sorted out my problems, and we ended up winning the title comfortably. However, now I'm back to the 1-0, 0-0, 1-1 type of games again, more often than not. It could be a simple issue of the team finding it's feet in a new season, with a few new players, but most of my side remains unchanged, so it's hard to just place the blame on that. I have success in cup ties, but the league is proving the issue that I can't sort out.

I've pinpointed it down to a few issues that I need to tackle, but am unsure in how to approach. Lots of shots, low shot quality. Same problem as before. I now have more points of attack I feel, but it hasn't helped me in any significant way as of this season. I see a ton of 9 men behind the ball scenarios, and because of this, the space is extremely constricted. Should I try to lengthen my passing, or does that significantly risk hurting you when you play a creative style that wants to probe the opposition? Am I trying to be too fancy is essentially what I'm asking here. 4-1-2-2-1 and 4-4-2 tactics have been the problem, with either 8 or 9 men behind the ball, extremely deep.

Counter attacks are still hurting me as well, with opponents getting at least 1 CCC vs me it seems per game from counters. I lack a true ball winner, one that could shield the defense. They are good all rounder midfielders that fill this role for me, with decent marking/tackling. Is there a good way to tackle this issue in the midfield with good, solid midfielders, or should I look to bring one in/retrain a good passing defender to that role?

Tactic at the moment:

http://i.imgur.com/rXty7.jpg

Issues are both home as well as away. I use a 4-1-2-2-1 away from home that is very similar to this. Any ideas would be great help. Cheers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont see a lot going on through the middle of your tactic?how about AP(A) or AM(A) especially if you say the opposition are now regularly playing with 9 men behind the ball.As long as you OI target their danger men you afford to be a little more dangerous.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont see a lot going on through the middle of your tactic?how about AP(A) or AM(A) especially if you say the opposition are now regularly playing with 9 men behind the ball.As long as you OI target their danger men you afford to be a little more dangerous.

Of course, it could be a simple as that!

I've been trying to figure out why my players aren't trying to pass more into the middle of the box. It's because AP(s) doesn't make enough surging runs into the box to get on the end of crosses, he likes to stay in the hole. He's amazing at that, but it limits my attacks sometimes because he could be scoring more goals. It seems the opposition are starting to crack from the pressure more in this game I'm in vs a relegation type club, even though they're playing with 3 at the back.

Thanks for that. Little question on this however. If I play with AM (a) and not have a primary playmaker, would it affect the fluency of my team? I've always gone by the rule you should have 1 playmaker on the field (AP or DLP) so you have someone to be the focus on attacks. Should I play with AM (A) and tick playmaker for him, change the BWM to DLP(D), or not worry about it at all? I figure having a primary cog in the midfield is important, but maybe I'm OVERstating the importance.

Results:

http://i.imgur.com/QuI36.jpg

Much fewer long shots, much more in the box shots. Sometimes, it really is that easy. Let's see if I just didn't get lucky.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldnt tinker too much just yet BUT imo if your going to have a playmaker in your team i feel it would be more effective having him deeper where he has the space to (a) receive the ball and (b) the time to pick a pass and (hopefully) influence the game.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleon/wwfan - I wasn't trolling, but I really can't be bothered with an internet war as I have absolutely no reason to and I'm actually broadly speaking on your side here!!!

I can thoroughly understand why you get frustrated but I was trying to explain to you why perhaps the more rational members of the forum are having a pop, just so that you can identify those who are taking the p*ss for the sole reason of taking the p*ss as they can't play the game properly, as opposed to those who have genuine concerns about the ME.

It's a shame by the way that the first line, despite me clearly stating it was a very brief acknowledgement of a broad point, dominated both your replies and the other 90% of it got a three words response FFS!!! :lol: wwfan didn't give any response; instead, you've typed a massive response broadly agreeing with what I said but making out like you were responding to me being on the attack - I wasn't, I was agreeing with you completely ;) As I said above though, I understand why, but I personally was not trying to tug on your nerves, and I think I was the victim of the sheer amount of unjustified criticism you've had of late.

I think everyone needs to chill out on here. I've been reading from a distance and it's a problem with both sides of the debate - those obsessed with "the game is broken" point of view refuse to listen to constructive advice as to how to play the game effectively, whilst those who are convinced the ME is workable regard any problems with the ME as negligible and generally to listen to criticism of the game.

The truth is somewhere in between. As I say, I believe the ME is much harder, whether that's due to flaws or intent I simply don't know. I personally welcome the increased challenge, but when SI have introduced a streamlined version of the game for the casual user, it makes no sense to undo this casualness with an overegged focus on tactical ingenuity.

Therein lies the problem - there's more than one user of FM. I am a tactical nut, and therefore I'm loving FM13. My brother, on the other side of the coin, bought it on the promise that FMC would be a reversal to the days of CM01/02 where you could set up a system and go through the seasons, revelling in your faux genius as Florian Maurice or whoever nets 30 and you win the league.

So you can't judge everyone the same way - people have different expectations of FM, and telling people to fix their tactics and be better at the game will sometimes get under peoples skin, especially if there's not enough acknowledgement of in-game issues beyond the control of the user.

Hope that makes sense. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Cleon/wwfan - I wasn't trolling, but I really can't be bothered with an internet war as I have absolutely no reason to and I'm actually broadly speaking on your side here!!!

I wasn't trying to argue with you, just to clarify my position. When talking about 'you', I meant 'you' in the general sense, not 'you' personally. I certainly didn't think you were attacking me.

The moderating team are pretty annoyed with the abuse I've been getting (in PMs as well as posts) so are a little sensitive at the moment. That is, understandably, resulting in some strict modding and 'play safe' deletions. I've undeleted your post because I know we are on the same side and do agree.

I didn't respond to the latter half of your post because it was excellent and didn't need embellishing.

wwfan when you say that we should have players moving between the lines, you mean settings like roaming and move into channels for example?

And duties. One Attack duty for an FB, one Defend and one Attack for midfielders, one Support for forwards.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And duties. One Attack duty for an FB, one Defend and one Attack for midfielders, one Support for forwards.

What about players with "drops deep to get a ball" or "gets forward whenever it's possible" PPMs? Is it overrides their forward runs like +1/-1 on slider? So fullback with "gets forward whenever it's possible" and support duty acts like fullback with attack duty (in matter of forward runs) or his runs (without ball) only happend occasionally?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep it up wwfan/cleon. You guys make quality happen in this section, and the responses you create are well-thought, reasoned, and intelligent. Don't let the angry kids who think it's always the match engine's fault for their failings get to you guys. I really am fascinated by how smart you guys are and read most of the responses you guys put out there to try to better my game.

So, thanks to everyone's input, especially the post about "the basics" in making a tactic work has really improved my tactics (so far). Never thought that just playing a standard approach with the usage of shouts, and occasionally changing the strategy would work so well.

Results since making the appropriate changes (highlighted):

http://i.imgur.com/aeeyC.jpg

Falling behind also used to give me fits. Primary reason: I didn't know how to react. I'd be hyper reactive, make too many changes via shouts (or strategy), and wouldn't target their main threats which gave them the lead.

Now, we've fallen behind in 3 of those games, and won. Here's the most recent.

Waterford Utd 1-2 UCD

http://i.imgur.com/XnrzG.jpg

As you can see, we fell behind 1-0. It was a long range goal, exactly the kind of goals where you're like "what can I even do about that". However, I noticed it came off a flick-on by one of their wingers. So I OI the striker who flicked it on (I already tight marked the striker, he just got lucky with the flick-on into a 30 yard goal). I also set closing down to the 2 midfielders that are having the most influence on the game, in an attempt to start having more possession (it was a 50-50 split at this point).

Their formation was a 3-5-2. An awkward formation to face when playing a 4-2-3-1. My AMC wasn't always helping out defensively, so I had to tell him to manually mark their midfielder that was sitting furthest back after the goal. I also make 3 changes that will have a primary influence on the game. First is to play more narrow, in an attempt to close down their midfield. Secondly was to Exploit the Flanks shout, which will allow me to abuse their 3 at the back. Finally, I begin to look for overlap, because I wasn't in any danger from wide areas this game, as their counterattacking strength was poor. I begin to see the fruits of this at the start of the second half, with a goal coming from my left back making a charging run down the left, and passing it to the AMC for an easy goal.

However, even with more possession, we can't seem to score. I stop the Play Narrower shout, as I feel 1) Their midfield is tired and can't control the game in the middle anymore. 2) We need a little more width to stretch the very narrow Waterford Utd team. I also Pass Into Space shout to increase through balls for the team, as I have a better finisher as my striker now. Goal from a cross comes a little later, and it leads to a win.

I'm using a lot more logic in my game analysis thanks to how you've explained things and it has worked a lot better. Still making mistakes, but I'm no longer losing as many stupid games because I'm creating 0 chances with 20+ shots.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't trying to argue with you, just to clarify my position. When talking about 'you', I meant 'you' in the general sense, not 'you' personally. I certainly didn't think you were attacking me.

The moderating team are pretty annoyed with the abuse I've been getting (in PMs as well as posts) so are a little sensitive at the moment. That is, understandably, resulting in some strict modding and 'play safe' deletions. I've undeleted your post because I know we are on the same side and do agree.

I didn't respond to the latter half of your post because it was excellent and didn't need embellishing.

Fair play mate :)

I can't understand why you're getting abuse for trying to help people. Bizarre... actually, I know exactly what it is. People being bad at the game who don't like being bad at the game, and hate it when people logically point out why they're bad at the game! It's much easier to point at a mythical ME flaw than to admit they simply suck :p

By all means delete anything of mine, I'm not gonna kick off over it :D Keep up the good work - I pop in and out but it's great to see a continued dedication to the game. Whether agreeing or disagreeing with what you guys say, people should have the respect to acknowledge the time you put in.

People need to distinguish the phrase "the ME is bugged" when what they really mean is "I haven't adjusted to the ME yet".

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...