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Easy to poach elite youth players


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TL: DR It is extremely easy to poach new youth players even a few months after they are created

I'm not sure if this should be considered a feature or something that needs to be tweaked. It seems to be remarkably easy to poach extremely high quality youth players. I'm playing as Swansea in my first season. In May, I started to get email about relegated teams from the leagues that I have set to active (England, Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy). I decide to get a general team report to see if they have any good players that will want to leave using my 20CA 17PA scout. The first team is Freiburg in the Bundesliga. Since I have the full team report, I decide to also check out their U23 team and U19 teams to see what the report found, and I find this guy. He's willing to discuss a contract and eventually signs with me with the compensation being 950K USD (I'm an American). 5 star potential and already a good League 1 level player at 14?

eIIAW.jpg

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I also signed a 4.5 star guy from Moreirense in Portugal.

I would have signed more 4.5-5 star youth players, but I was up against my salary budget and couldn't offer wages that met their demands. And their demands weren't even excessive, I was just maxed out. The guy above signed for like 9K USD per week when he finally became a professional. There were several other 4.5-5.0 youth players willing to discuss terms with me. If I took the time to scout a ton of teams, I could have cleaned up if I had the salary room.

I honestly didn't expect to be able to sign these guys, so I didn't use any player interactions. If I had more salary room and had I started pursuing them when they first appeared a few months prior, I could have loaded my youth club with elite talent for minimal expenditures.

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Yes I think their should be more competitions from the the ai to sign good players.

I think players like this should be much more committed to the team that "created" them. I'm not even talking about AI competition. The player was just created and is only 14 but hadn't yet signed a professional contract with his team. Players like this should be an auto-sign for the team with which they are created. I swooped in a couple months after he was generated. H `-

The really disturbing thing to me is that I was able to swoop in and offer a very modest professional contract to an absurdly talented teen and pay pennies on the dollar for compensation. What was his original team thinking? How had they not offered him a professional deal that he would accept after a couple months? We are talking about an elite talent here. I swooped in a couple months after he appeared.

If I were to start a new save, I would leave a ton of my wage budget open so that I could simply poach top flight talent from the top leagues in Europe prior to those player signing professional contracts with their teams. In this save, I could save a large amount of my wage budget and use the team report scouting option to scout all the elite teams throughout the world and load my youth team with unreal talent.

I think I'll do that just to show how easy it is.

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this game is too easy. same as before. all you need is some decent scouts and then just nick all the good youngsters. the ai never battles to keep the player at the club nor do you get an ai challenge from a top team to sign the player.

Its not just young players, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man City etc... just go around wasting money and eventually everyone becomes fairly average.

I was hoping they had sorted this out for FM13.

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I didn't negotiate a transfer. I simply approached to sign because they had not yet agreed to terms with their current teams on a professional contract. I approached and signed them a couple months after the players appeared. Who knows how many young stud players I could have signed had I started scouting when they first appeared and had I utilized player interactions to create a favorable relationship with me. I probably could have signed like 10+ 5 star youth players for minimal compensation. I only noticed it in May when I got email about teams being relegated and requested a team report. If I got team reports from around the globe for teams that create elite talent when the teams get their youth influx (in March?), I almost certainly could have signed an enormous amount of elite youth players. I was only limited in this save because my wage budget was maxed out.

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That's the oldest looking 14 year old I've ever seen.

Blame the dude who made the regen facepack mod.

If you are questioning whether this is a legit problem, well, it is easy to reproduce. This came up in my first save and I wasn't even looking for it. As mentioned, I only noticed it by requesting a team report for relegated teams in May a couple months after the players were created. I was astonished I could offer these players contracts and actually have them be interested.

I'm Swansea. If I were a more highly regarded team I could likely sign an enormous number of top flight youth talent from around the globe if I took the time to find them (which only involves requesting a team report).

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I think the reason you got him was because he just hadn't signed a contract yet and you were a higher reputation team. Had he been on a contract I guarantee they would have made you pay through the nose for him, which also isn't right, but it's what FM13 seems to do. I actually thinking poaching youngsters in this version is unrealistically difficult

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I think the reason you got him was because he just hadn't signed a contract yet and you were a higher reputation team. Had he been on a contract I guaranteed they would have made you pay through the nose for him, which also isn't right, but it's what FM13 seems to do. I actually thinking poaching youngsters in this version is unrealistically difficult

These players appeared in March. I approached them in May. They had months to sign a contract.

This isn't an anomaly. It is reproducible for everyone.

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Yeah but youngsters under the age of 16 aren't allowed to sign full contracts, just pre-contracts aren't they? What i've seen happen a lot in this version is that top top youngers won't sign deals unless they are very good, so i'd imagine what happened is that they kept offering him a deal, he kept rejecting it and then boom, you came calling. When leaving youngsters contracts to my DOF of Head of Youth i've seen the top players reject countless contracts if they don't think the money is right

Try signing a youngsters of 16 whose already signed a professional deal and has high potentially, I can almost guarantee you whoever it is that he plays for will want an excess of 10m for him (something you see a lot)

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Yeah but youngsters under the age of 16 aren't allowed to sign full contracts, just pre-contracts aren't they? What i've seen happen a lot in this version is that top top youngers won't sign deals unless they are very good, so i'd imagine what happened is that they kept offering him a deal, he kept rejecting it and then boom, you came calling. When leaving youngsters contracts to my DOF of Head of Youth i've seen the top players reject countless contracts if they don't think the money is right

Try signing a youngsters of 16 whose already signed a professional deal and has high potentially, I can almost guarantee you whoever it is that he plays for will want an excess of 10m for him (something you see a lot)

Why would I do that when I can sign that player prior to him signing his professional deal for less than $1M?

The point is that the players can be approached before they have agreed to a professional deal with their team or origin and they will be open to moving. This is true even into May when they have already existed in the game world for a couple months.

I shouldn't be able to swoop in and sign a huge number of these players for pennies on the dollar (less than $1M) because they aren't agreeing to their first professional contracts within a couple of months of them being offered.

We are talking about 5 star potential talents. Even for a team like Swansea, the number of potential 5 star talents is quite small.

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I would suggest it is probably reasonably realistic. A 14 year old (as explained) can't sign a contract. A bigger club comes along, the kid would be very tempted to go.

I am not sure why you think you shouldn't be able to swoop in for a 14 year old player who is unable to sign a contract. Who knows, maybe your scouts are wrong about him.

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Why would I do that when I can sign that player prior to him signing his professional deal for less than $1M?

The point is that the players can be approached before they have agreed to a professional deal with their team or origin and they will be open to moving. This is true even into May when they have already existed in the game world for a couple months.

I shouldn't be able to swoop in and sign a huge number of these players for pennies on the dollar (less than $1M) because they aren't agreeing to their first professional contracts within a couple of months of them being offered.

We are talking about 5 star potential talents. Even for a team like Swansea, the number of potential 5 star talents is quite small.

My point is is that if you tried that, it wouldn't be so easy

I don't see what's unrealistic about this though? Arsenal got Fabregas because he wouldn't sign a professional deal, West Ham got Defoe because he wouldn't sign with Charlton I believe it was, Katuka to Chelsea. This kind of things happens in real life all the time and clubs are forced to pay compensation. Despite what your scouts tell you, I reckon many of these 5 star rated youngsters you've bought won't turn out to be superstars as the current game is usually pretty good at getting top rated youngsters to sign permanent deals with their clubs

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I always wonder when people say "It's too easy because of this", why don't they just, you know, not do it?

It's clear that the AI is awful at signing them too, so you shouldn't get gazumped, so if you really want a "realistic" or difficult game, then just don't sign these youngsters until they sign professional contracts. I know that if I dredge youth teams and academies round the world, I will strike gold, but it just doesn't seem right, so I've never done it.

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I was going to say!

It IS far too difficult in this version for youngsters on a contract. The OP has said he can't understand why it's been so easy for him to pick up these youngsters when it's quite obvious the reason as to why (good young players not signing their contracts, which happens in real life). I think he's right but I think he's coming at it from the wrong angle, it should be a question of why aren't other big teams in for these players, why has it not been made clear to him why he signed for him over his original team. Signing players not on contracts should be easy throughout the game (duh) but if these players are as good as they're supposed to be it shouldn't be easy to cherry pick them up from all over the world without some indication as to why

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I always wonder when people say "It's too easy because of this", why don't they just, you know, not do it?

It's clear that the AI is awful at signing them too, so you shouldn't get gazumped, so if you really want a "realistic" or difficult game, then just don't sign these youngsters until they sign professional contracts. I know that if I dredge youth teams and academies round the world, I will strike gold, but it just doesn't seem right, so I've never done it.

I couldn't agree more.

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For sake of realism as well I do not go around getting full team reports from random teams. To me that is the same as going to the global search, typing in a team, and scouring their youth and players and signing who you want.

I will *only* go after players whom my scouts have come back with a report on and already scouted or a player I've actually seen play against my team in a match. That means I would never end of poaching a 14 yr old youth product

unless my scout found them while scouting the U18 Germany leagues.

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The problem is not OP signing the young lad, but that he were able to find him at all. I mean, how reliable can a scout be for a 14 year old he has never seen play before?

To fix the problem SI should decrease the accuracy of scout reports for youngsters from the normal 10 star system to only five or so. That way you can never be really sure as a manager of the kids ability until he either reaches a more mature age and transfer to the ten-star system or you sign him for your team.

By using a five-star system you would have an automated insecurity up to at least star, maybe more, in difference from the original scouting-report.

How's that for an idea?

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The problem is not OP signing the young lad, but that he were able to find him at all. I mean, how reliable can a scout be for a 14 year old he has never seen play before?

To fix the problem SI should decrease the accuracy of scout reports for youngsters from the normal 10 star system to only five or so. That way you can never be really sure as a manager of the kids ability until he either reaches a more mature age and transfer to the ten-star system or you sign him for your team.

By using a five-star system you would have an automated insecurity up to at least star, maybe more, in difference from the original scouting-report.

How's that for an idea?

Its a brilliant idea. :thup:

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My point is is that if you tried that, it wouldn't be so easy

I don't see what's unrealistic about this though? Arsenal got Fabregas because he wouldn't sign a professional deal, West Ham got Defoe because he wouldn't sign with Charlton I believe it was, Katuka to Chelsea. This kind of things happens in real life all the time and clubs are forced to pay compensation. Despite what your scouts tell you, I reckon many of these 5 star rated youngsters you've bought won't turn out to be superstars as the current game is usually pretty good at getting top rated youngsters to sign permanent deals with their clubs

I decided to check using the free version of FMRTE. The kid from the OP has a PA of 185 and already has a CA of 101 at age 14. The RB I signed has a PA of 172.

I would suggest it is probably reasonably realistic. A 14 year old (as explained) can't sign a contract. A bigger club comes along, the kid would be very tempted to go.

I am not sure why you think you shouldn't be able to swoop in for a 14 year old player who is unable to sign a contract. Who knows, maybe your scouts are wrong about him.

They can sign pre-contracts. If they sign pre-contracts, with their teams then you can't swoop in and sign them. You have to transfer for them, and often teams won't sell them even for huge sums.

The problem is, at least IMO, that teams aren't signing these young studs to pre-contracts for some reason.

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I decided to check using the free version of FMRTE. The kid from the OP has a PA of 185 and already has a CA of 101 at age 14. The RB I signed has a PA of 172.

They can sign pre-contracts. If they sign pre-contracts, with their teams then you can't swoop in and sign them. You have to transfer for them, and often teams won't sell them even for huge sums.

The problem is, at least IMO, that teams aren't signing these young studs to pre-contracts for some reason.

May be worth submitting that as a bug. I agree, it makes an already easy game, even easier. The AI squad building is already atrocious, and now with AI seemingly not recognising and signing such talent - effectively leaving it all for the human manager to take our pick from - it just compounds the problem.

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I decided to check using the free version of FMRTE. The kid from the OP has a PA of 185 and already has a CA of 101 at age 14. The RB I signed has a PA of 172.

They can sign pre-contracts. If they sign pre-contracts, with their teams then you can't swoop in and sign them. You have to transfer for them, and often teams won't sell them even for huge sums.

The problem is, at least IMO, that teams aren't signing these young studs to pre-contracts for some reason.

For what it's worth, having a high PA doesn't guarantee the player will get anywhere near that level (due to poor hidden attributes, injury proneness, his actual numbers not suited to that position etc) but I agree with you on the last part, submit it as a bug and see what they say

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I tend to have found the players who after months (or even years) are yet to sign a contract are after £10k-20k pw and pretty hefty extras like 15% payrise per season and a payrise after 20 first team games or 1 international. If you add the player to your shortlist rather than signing him, you'll constantly be notified of the player turning down a contract offer.

What contracts are you having to offer these players? And then consider that amount in comparison to how much the club currently pays its first teamers, so what is the likelihood the player's demands would actually be accepted? £10k-20k pw for a 14-18yo players is pretty insane when you think about it. I mean, the average (real life) premier league pay before bonuses is £22k pw, and the average in the championship is £4k pw. But here we are offering that to 14-18 yo players. So from that point of view I find it realistic for them to be available. Maybe not so realistic for them asking for that pay in the first place, although the rumour is Sterling is about to receive £30k pw from Liverpool at 17!

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I've found teams protecting their youth stars better in FM13 than past versions, I think we're not at a point in FM where it's the evaluations of players potential that needs fixing rather than teams hanging on to them more. There should be more risk involved in signing youth players, but as it is now if you can pick up a 4.5-5 star potential player that's <17 years old then spending a mil or 2 on them isn't very risky since even if they don't develop correctly to fit into your first team, you can most assuredly sell them for profit.

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This is what I love about FM fans....

The last month we've had threads going up about how hard and expensive it is to poach wonderkids etc....

Instead of concluding that FM fans are fickle and having wide opinions on a simple topic, I think if you take a look at the issue you'll see that it actually IS both too easy and too difficult (expensive) in certain cases. Let me give a comparable argument:

Caveman1: "Wood doesn't burn" (tries to burn live tree).

Caveman2: "House burns down because wood burns too easily. Use Sod instead." (burns a dried out log to demonstrate).

Caveman Welshace: "This is what I love about these guys, last week it was 'wood doesn't burn', this week 'wood burns too well'. Silly guys...".

In some cases teams don't pre-sign their youth for whatever reason. I typically find that Barca don't pre-sign a lot of their youth when I don't have Spanish Leagues loaded. In these cases the game is too easy just as the OP points out. Yes, it should happen once in awhile that you can swoop in for a Fabregas, but most of these players probably wouldn't sign with a foreign club if at a club like Barca in reality. A few too many are willing to this year.

In other cases where a youth has pre-signed a pro deal with their club, the club will want as much as $20M for them even if the club is fairly lowly in stature and worth in total only a fraction of that amount. This is good for keeping human mitts off the great players but isn't realistic. It is fully warranted to state that it isn't realistic in some cases, even if it makes for a better computer game by keeping things difficult for the human player.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Quote Originally Posted by Rayban_DK View Post

The problem is not OP signing the young lad, but that he were able to find him at all. I mean, how reliable can a scout be for a 14 year old he has never seen play before?

To fix the problem SI should decrease the accuracy of scout reports for youngsters from the normal 10 star system to only five or so. That way you can never be really sure as a manager of the kids ability until he either reaches a more mature age and transfer to the ten-star system or you sign him for your team.

By using a five-star system you would have an automated insecurity up to at least star, maybe more, in difference from the original scouting-report.

How's that for an idea?

oh, scout star masking already exists and is available for download...

http://community.sigames.com/showthr...ge-improvement

Unfortunately the link is broken, but this looks exactly what I've been looking for, so thx for heading me in the right direction! :-)

PS: Could you please re-upload it? :-)

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