3-5-2 Possession

[tommonufc]

Really struggling since the latest match engine has come out to gain any hold of really any game with my set up, that had previously done fairly well.

I want to play a 3-5-2 with two attacking wide men, but have dropped the them back to become wing backs in an attempt to get things working, but little no affect offensively - all I've seemed to do is tighten things up defensivly by having 5 defensive players - not really what I'm looking for.

I've tinkered around with the TC so much now that I don't know what's working and what's not. So basically looking for some input in how I can set up my side to do the following goals, from the following shape;

GK

CB --- CB(Ideally Libero) --- CB

DLP

RW--- CM ---- CM --- LW

ST --- ST

Goals

- First and foremost, I want to be able to play out from the back. Watching games on Full seems to fill me with rage no matter what I'm doing, center backs will make one or two passes between each other, get nowhere, pass back to the goalkeeper, and he'll hump it forward.

- Defend high, and press heavily.

- Control possession through careful build up play, enabling my wide men to be involved as much as possible high up the field.

[Justino]

I play a 5-3-2 with wing backs and first things first..you need good players

Instead of a libero, I noticed a ball playing defender is better in a flat back three. The midfield I use is one CM (D) who individual role is a ball winner but they seem to go about like headless chickens. I have an AM who's my playmaker and a DLF and a poacher

Use a balanced approach and at home control the game

[tommonufc]

I have good enough players for this to succeed I think - the previous season I won the league with 92 points, losing twice and scoring 100 goals using fundamentally a 3-5-2 all season, with Mario Gotze playing wide right, and Andre Ayew playing wide left.

Ball playing defender could be a possibility, but I'd take off their through ball options. I have Salvatore Bocchetti who can play this role very well.

In midfield I've recently brought Joe Allen to play the deep lying playmaker role, and have Yohan Cabaye who can play this role too. Ideally I want this guy to be a continuity player really, lots of passes, and the center of everything.

[tommonufc]

Latest game against AC Milan in Champions League. Kept the ball much better with the following set-up, but not there yet I don't think, passing intensity wasn't there, would really want my two wide men to be seeing a lot more of the ball. Center backs were a lot more controlled in possession, forgot to take off the through balls of the three defenders, so that would account for a few aimless passes made from the back.

[Seule]

Do you always play this as a flat 3 lines? I've thought about trying something similar at some point, but haven't done so yet as I have a plethora of talent at the full back/WB positions, but I always liked the thought of 3 DC's with a DLP/DM combo in front of them bringing the ball up. Surely if you're playing a high pressing game moving them into the DM spots wouldn't halt your attack would it? Might give the DC's/keeper options other than just lumping it forward?

[tommonufc]

I've tried the DLP into the dm spot, haven't noticed too much of a difference, still just as ineffective, game still passes him by.

I've experimented with a DM and DLP in front of my back three; that helps, but not what I'm looking for at all. Yohan Cabaye has actually been in great form playing as a b2b so far this season amist the tactical frustration that I'm going through.

[Babak G]

Dont you find by playing WBs it may be more useful than WM?

What's the avg position of your side?

[james_wilko]

I find Ball Playing Defenders to be unnecessary. They'll be looking for through balls more often than not which isn't great for possession, change them to standard CBs with short passing. Also, Vidic and Taylor have quite poor passing. A bit risky having them as ball players with their limited ability, try making them limited defenders?

Is your GK's distribution set to defender collect? It doesn't always mean he'll play it short but it does encourage him to do so.

I'm using Wing Backs in my 3-5-2, but as you have Ayew that's not really an option. Try using Defensive Wingers on attack, again with short passing.

Untick the playmaker option. Having your team focus on passing to one player makes it a bit harder to keep possession, especially when he's a CM and very likely to be closely followed.

I personally don't like using a DLF as I find they don't really do a lot. Try a Trequarista instead, someone like Rossi should be great at that role. He'll roam about a bit more which should make him an easier option for a pass.

Increase the width the team plays with. It should open up a bit more space for them to play through.

Here's a look at how I've lined up my AC Milan team in a 3-5-2. Obviously we have very different players and squads but you may be able to transfer some of it to your team.

I can't guarantee always dominating possession, but you should play some pretty good football from it.

And one last thing, try having the CM - Attack behind the poacher, as I think (could be wrong) he can't drive forward as far with a supporting striker being in front of him.

[tommonufc]

Dont you find by playing WBs it may be more useful than WM?

What's the avg position of your side?

I don't want to play with wing backs. I've had a system of wingers working for me extremely well previously, and see no reason why it can't be incorporated into what I'm looking for. Defensivly, these wide players can do a job - Andre Ayew for me makes an excellent attacking wing back once retrained to that postition, and whilst Mario Gotze would be best suited to a number 10 role his skill and effectiveness to score and create from wide areas is something that has been effective when playing in a right wing role, and also has sufficient work rate to press hard and track back when needed.

I find Ball Playing Defenders to be unnecessary. They'll be looking for through balls more often than not which isn't great for possession, change them to standard CBs with short passing. Also, Vidic and Taylor have quite poor passing. A bit risky having them as ball players with their limited ability, try making them limited defenders?

Is your GK's distribution set to defender collect? It doesn't always mean he'll play it short but it does encourage him to do so.

I'm using Wing Backs in my 3-5-2, but as you have Ayew that's not really an option. Try using Defensive Wingers on attack, again with short passing.

Untick the playmaker option. Having your team focus on passing to one player makes it a bit harder to keep possession, especially when he's a CM and very likely to be closely followed.

I personally don't like using a DLF as I find they don't really do a lot. Try a Trequarista instead, someone like Rossi should be great at that role. He'll roam about a bit more which should make him an easier option for a pass.

Increase the width the team plays with. It should open up a bit more space for them to play through.

Here's a look at how I've lined up my AC Milan team in a 3-5-2. Obviously we have very different players and squads but you may be able to transfer some of it to your team.

I can't guarantee always dominating possession, but you should play some pretty good football from it.

And one last thing, try having the CM - Attack behind the poacher, as I think (could be wrong) he can't drive forward as far with a supporting striker being in front of him.

I've taken through balls off the ball playing defenders, as I am aware that they will just gift possession away. The lack of passing skill I feel shouldn't hamper what I'm trying to do, I'm not asking Vidic or Taylor to spray 50 yard racking passes from the back, what I'm looking for is them to play short passes out from the back. Individually I've seen them do this from game to game, but just can't for the life of me get them all on the same wave length.

Just come off the back of a game where I conceded two goals - both coming from the opposition breaking straight on to my defence by my goalkeeper hoofing it and giving the ball away. On both occassions I was in possession of the ball, but seemingly unable to play out of my defence. The ball played across the back three, then back to the goalkeeper, who just clears it aimlessly. Opposition gain possession and spring a counter attack inside my own half.

Every thing I've done from the TC just doesn't work. High creative freedom, low creative; fluid, very fluid, rigid, attacking, control, standard - hopeless. Just had enough really.

Before the latest ME patch was released I was dominating games through fast paced attacks, scoring and creating plenty of chances. I don't know if it's anything to do with the ME updates, but I want to evolve my style of play into a more possession orientated style. Previously I wasn't too bothered with my inability to play out from the back, and my defence lumping it forward, as I knew I'd eventually create enough chances to score goals.

I don't think on FM13 I've actually been able, in a single game, to finish a game with 70% possession, or with my defence to have anywhere near a 90% pass competition (quite frankly impossible in a back 3, with the rigidness of the defence in the ME and the mess SI have made of goalkeepers distribution) let alone have my wing backs/wide midfielders or deep lying midfielder make anywhere near 100 passes. I await people to try and tell me what does it matter, but these are barometers I want to judge how my team are playing.

I've given up messing around this with this current side. I'm hopefully going to get something playable to what I'm looking for with Juventus and then come back, as the constant tactical changes to no avail, are messing up my season.

[james_wilko]

I've no experience of getting the very high possession, my games at most give me around 60% possession. But I think if you try a lower the gaps between Defence-Midfield and Midfield-Attack it could help?

So instead of your current formation, try:

GK

CB CB CB

DM

RM CM CM LM

AM

CF

Or;

GK

Sweeper/Libero

CB CB

RM CM CM CM LM

CF CF

Or for that one, change one CM to AM.

I think with the players you have, the 3-4-1-2 with a Libero may be your best option. Bocchetti should do well in that role.

[youngrookie]

in the back 3 formation i use iv e got win bks (s) and AML (inside fwd attack) and AMR (winger support) Playing behind a poacher. 2 cms on defend, a sweeper (d) and then 2 dc's (d). Fluid and control and only high pressing, ticked 'counter attack' and target man set as poacher with 'run onto ball' changed in the team instructions. This is doing very well for me, although this is season 3 in a very good juventus team that now has Falcao and Gotze. I only bring this up as i haven't seen anyone use wingbks and winger types on this years game (could be wrong here) and so thought that it could be something for people to try implement into their game. Has anyone tried this type of formation on FM13?

[PeeKay]

I had the same problem with possession with 3-5-2 (or variations). However, it's not a problem with possession but ball retrieval, the formation against and a bit of math.

The equation for possession is:

Possession = (Your Time on ball) / (Total Time) * 100

So when you have the ball your possession goes up and when you don't have the ball possession goes down.

If your oppoenent is using a formation with wingers and fullbacks (e.g. 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1) then when your opponent is in possession they have spare men in the full back position. The 3-5-2 has problems closing down these positions and the opposing team always has an easy ball to a safe area away from your players. However, it is a non threating area of the pitch for you aswell.

Check you pass percentages and opposing teams possession in their third of the pitch. If they are high then it is the issue as described.

[Telemachos]

You probably want your wide midfielders to be defensive wingers on attack from what it looks like to me.

I am currently using a 3-4-1-2 formation and run my wingers as defensive wingers on support (I pushed the MC up to be a TQ:A in AMC position).

The 3-5-2 is an offensive type of formation. I guess you could try to play a more defensive attacking tempo (Control) or even standard and call that possession soccer. Personally, I would run the midfield:

DW:S, BxB:S, DLP:S, BWM:D, DW:S (if you can't run BxB then use a CM:S as well as if you can't use a BWM:D then use a CM:D). I would retain my playmaker more support than defend.

[dturtle1]

To the OP,i feel your pain, my back 3 have an annoying habit of passing among themselves back to the keeps for a clearance(half the attempts i wouldnt exactly call a pass ), i use wingbacks, it works ok when they pass out wide to them when the CM or DM is blocked, however i haven't got them consistent yet,it doesn't help that they have passing/creativity under 10, i've had sum success having the the Wb's and CM/S operate a bit more defensively in mentality, be careful not to have your passing too short at the back, coz then they cant reach your midfield so they just pass back to keeps.. I think the key is having your backs with the creativity and decision making to find your midfield players

to the person that doesn't like DLF coz they dont do anything..Kris Doolan wants a word.... in 33 apps in the league he got 16 goals and 17 assists and got player of the year. , DLF and AF or Poach works beautifully in my set up

interesting tidbit last season(1st in save) i scored 37/103 goals in the last 15mins of the match, why im not exactly sure.. When im chasing a game sum1 always pops up to draw/win the game

[pazmacats2]

DC hoofing the ball upfield at every opportunity can be fixed with tempo setting (slightly below normal works for me). Pass length seems to be totally irrelevant.

[PeeKay]

My possession 3-5-2:

And Keeper Distribution set to "Defender Collect"

[wwfan]

I'd kill the BPD settings, as they will result in the players having longer passing ranges than the Basic DC settings. I'd also tick the PM checkbox. That should sort most of it out.

[tennisball]

I thought I saw one of the FM gurus (wwfan, Cleon etc.) post a thread about a 3-1-4-2 formation that they used for one of their saves but I can't find the thread now, am I going mad/blind?

Could someone confirm if that thread exists please?

For some reason I thought it was one of Cleon's threads, but I'm probably wrong... I bet she quickly starts up a save with Stoke City or someone and wins the Prem in their first season with a 3-1-4-2 formation!

[RocheBag]

I believe it was called "planning ahead, deep lying playmaker" and yes it was Cleon, it's the exact shape I use in almost all my saves.