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Idea: Match Engine version selection


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Hi,

I'm not sure if this post is in the right forum (there are so many to choose from!), but here goes.

After being frustrated and disappointed by the match engine in FM13, I thought about how awesome it would be if we could select a version of the match engine before we start a game.

In my opinion the match engine used in FM12 is better than the one in FM13. So having the match engine version in FM13 would be really great for me. And people who think the most recent version of the match engine is better could still choose that one.

What say you?

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That's just not going to happen but it might be more realistic to hope that SI make certain parts of the match engine modable by the community - basically an API of sorts. FM has a great community and more and more games allow this type of interaction.

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Doubt it between different FM years, like FM12 and FM13 would be incompatible due to rewrites to code etc.

But perhaps in Fm13 it might be possible to choose a different ME over say their latest release? I don't know - probably not. It's probably very complicated.

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My hunch is that FM13 is a lost year for the FM series. I think if folks take a laid back approach to this whole issue they'll either come to accept a broken ME (with the upcoming patches) and live with it or go back to 12 and wait for serious progress to occur (if that's possible). Ever since FM 13 came out I been paying FM12 religiously and having a blast. So what if I've blown $40 on a game. It won't be the first or last time I waste a bit of money. Of course next year I won't be in a hurry to get FM14 but that's not my problem.

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If you think this ME is broken, and champion FM12, I can only assume that your grasp of the ME is very superficial.

ie You don't actually look into the tactical systems, player interactions etc in any detail, and let a few obvious bugs obscure the massive amount of progress that's been made.

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If you think this ME is broken, and champion FM12, I can only assume that your grasp of the ME is very superficial.

ie You don't actually look into the tactical systems, player interactions etc in any detail, and let a few obvious bugs obscure the massive amount of progress that's been made.

Nice condescending reply :) My understanding of the ME, tactical systems, player interaction etc .. is just fine, thanks. Bottom Line I find FM13 incredibly boring, I know I'm not the only one and to me that suggest a flawed ME at the very least. It might suggest something even more worrying for SI in the long run but I won't get into that. I would say that it's broken as well for a number of reasons (that SI may or may not fix without creating other issues) but there's a whole thread(s) about that anyway. Apparently you like the game and that's great. No need to get insult me because I think differently. All I'm saying is play the game 13, 12 whatever and have fun. If you don't, do something else that does.

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well rude!!!!!!!!!,we get told off for things like that....

If you think this ME is broken, and champion FM12, I can only assume that your grasp of the ME is very superficial.

ie You don't actually look into the tactical systems, player interactions etc in any detail, and let a few obvious bugs obscure the massive amount of progress that's been made.

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If you think this ME is broken, and champion FM12, I can only assume that your grasp of the ME is very superficial.

ie You don't actually look into the tactical systems, player interactions etc in any detail, and let a few obvious bugs obscure the massive amount of progress that's been made.

No wonder there is so much bickering in these forums... "if you don't like it, you must be a tactical nitwit...", and that coming from a moderator :-(.

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But the thing is, he's absolutely spot on.

The ME in FM13 is so far in advance of the one in FM12, that if you still prefer the former, it can only be for three possible reasons;

1 - On FM12, you've found a tactic where your team wins every week, and can't handle that this doesn't work in FM13

2 - You have little, or indeed no understanding of the complexities and nuances of a match engine of a sophisticated football management simulation

3 - You're a gormless idiot.

I'd say the majority will fall into the second category, the louder abstainers fall into the first category, and the posters WHO POST LIKE THIS!!!! almost definitely are in the vicinity of option three.

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But the thing is, he's absolutely spot on.

The ME in FM13 is so far in advance of the one in FM12, that if you still prefer the former, it can only be for three possible reasons;

1 - On FM12, you've found a tactic where your team wins every week, and can't handle that this doesn't work in FM13

2 - You have little, or indeed no understanding of the complexities and nuances of a match engine of a sophisticated football management simulation

3 - You're a gormless idiot.

I'd say the majority will fall into the second category, the louder abstainers fall into the first category, and the posters WHO POST LIKE THIS!!!! almost definitely are in the vicinity of option three.

You are just trolling, right?

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The only change I would make to MacZidane's comment is to change 'if you still prefer the former' to 'if you think the former is better'.

People can prefer whatever one they want, there are plenty reasons why FM12 engine may be more enjoyable, such as the fact it was easy to exploit and go on unlimited unbeaten streaks, and that it had the benefits of full run of patches, so issues like the current slide-taclking fest were removed. It was definitely an enjoyable engine, and people should be free to enjoy which ever engine they like (on its respective game version FM12/13)

However, it is just plain and simple fact that the FM 13 engine is 'better'. That might not mean more enjoyable for everyone, but it is still fact.

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Whilst MacZidane's tone is questionable, the crux of his point is correct.

Loads of people are quick to deride the ME and claim everything is broken, but how many of those posters have actually tried (and I mean tried) to understand the mechanics of the game?

The ME is not broken; it has flaws but is eminently playable and offers some of the most fluid football of the series, along with a few painful bloopers which are by far the exception rather than the rule.

The game is not simple in any way. Plug and Play tactics are long gone now and it takes and investment of time, effort and research to gain success and, consequently, heightened satisfaction from the game.

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If you think this ME is broken, and champion FM12, I can only assume that your grasp of the ME is very superficial.

ie You don't actually look into the tactical systems, player interactions etc in any detail, and let a few obvious bugs obscure the massive amount of progress that's been made.

Waiting for Ackter to message back with the response my account was hacked scoff scoff!

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Nice condescending reply :) My understanding of the ME, tactical systems, player interaction etc .. is just fine, thanks. Bottom Line I find FM13 incredibly boring, I know I'm not the only one and to me that suggest a flawed ME at the very least.

While Akter was very blunt, I have to query your statement. We've been finding, almost without exception, that people who believed they got tactics and the ME and were fantastic FM players, have, in fact, consistently relied on simple exploits to undermine the ME. It looks like the FM13 ME has blocked those exploits and you actually require holistic tactical knowledge to succeed. That's a massive step forwards.

Now, you might be the exception to the rule, but experience suggests you aren't. If you are willing to step back, reflect, and even ask for help, I can guarantee you that we can make FM13 the most enjoyable iteration of the series for you. We can't help if you don't want to be helped though.

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I don't think the problem is the Match Engine, but the way users who are struggling are coached in-game. The tutorials have come leaps and bounds in recent versions but there's still some way to go, and if SI could reconstitute just some of the knowledge of the Tactics forum and experts such as wwfan into some wizards or practical walkthroughs, I think it'd go along way of showing rather than just telling people where they're going wrong. Providing real world examples and explanations within these tutorials would be great too, especially on how classic teams and tactics are translated into the ME.

Another option would be to create a simplified Tactics Creator where you just input the formation you want, the style of football you want and let it go without any other control. It could be another game mode on top of Classic and Career - Football Manager Simple or something less potentially condescending.

I hate the idea of dumbing down the game because I love the direction FM2013 is going, but if it gets people off SI's back, keeps sales up and lets those wanting depth have it without the awful atmosphere in general discussion, I'd be happy to see such a mode come in.

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Got to love the moderators from time to time...

A few years back:

"if you are not successful in fm11/fm12, then it's your tactics.Injuries are fine, woodworks are fine, everything is fine. It's just your tactics."

Now:

"if you were successful in fm11/fm12, then you were an exploiting cheater, because those MEs were broken."

It just gets old you know...just saying. For all I care I'm still playing FM12 and enjoying that I am having a successful save.

By the way, can I have my infractions removed? I got them because I was calling the FM11 and the starting FM12 ME completely broken. Since you now agree that it was broken, it only makes sense that I should have never got them, right? We don't want anyone to assume that the moderators have double standards.

Well if you're going to be pedantic, all match engines ever will be "broken" as it will always be nigh-on impossible to simulate real football through coding. There will always be bugs or inconsistencies, however small, that will prevent an ME becoming perfect.

The FM11/12 match engines weren't "broken", they were just limited in comparison to newly built FM2013. Are candles broken now that we have electric bulbs?

If you approach the match engine as a football simulator rather than a gaming system to beat with one-size-fits all tactics that exploit weaknesses you'll enjoy yourself.

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There we go again with removing replies...

Well,I know where this is going,so I'll just drop it here. I've already got enough infractions. If SI is happy and content with the censoring that happens, then I can't argue about it.

I just wish I could dig up just one of the threads where mods defend the ME of FM11 and FM12 as "one of the best made to date",but I really don't have the patience nor the will to do that right now.

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