Needing some advice creating a direct attaking tactic!

[celtic1967]

Hey.

I am needing the help of you guys to help me out a bit!

Before I start, I want to say that I am not asking for a tactic. I want to learn about this way of playing, what makes it work, its strengths/weakness's etc.

With FM, I am trying to create a direct, attacking tactic.

A few examples of the way I want to play here:

http://www.footytube.com/video/manchester-united-athletic-bilbao-mar08-107492

In this game, Bilbao looked to go forward at every opportunity. Unlike most other spannish teams they did not (in this game at least) seem to dally around on the ball. Once they got it they got men bursting forward and kept the ball moving forward very quickly!

Especially the move at 25 seconds. Quick passing, very direct.

What has been bothering me is how you should set up.

IF I push up too far, then that will result in the opposition penned back and me trying to pry them open a.k.a Barca. This I don't want.

If I set up too deep then I will likely be defending the whole game, also which i dont want.

I want my players to be pressing all over the pitch and then once the ball is won back, Instantly look for a forward pass, with men bursting forward.

I am guessing that for this type of game to work then space will be needed in the opponents half, so I cant push up too far.

Anyways, before I go too far into this, could somebody post up some videos/articles about the type of game I am trying to replicate to give me a better understanding of it ?

[slipknot67]

Hey.

I am needing the help of you guys to help me out a bit!

Before I start, I want to say that I am not asking for a tactic. I want to learn about this way of playing, what makes it work, its strengths/weakness's etc.

With FM, I am trying to create a direct, attacking tactic.

A few examples of the way I want to play here:

http://www.footytube.com/video/manchester-united-athletic-bilbao-mar08-107492

In this game, Bilbao looked to go forward at every opportunity. Unlike most other spannish teams they did not (in this game at least) seem to dally around on the ball. Once they got it they got men bursting forward and kept the ball moving forward very quickly!

Especially the move at 25 seconds. Quick passing, very direct.

What has been bothering me is how you should set up.

IF I push up too far, then that will result in the opposition penned back and me trying to pry them open a.k.a Barca. This I don't want.

If I set up too deep then I will likely be defending the whole game, also which i dont want.

I want my players to be pressing all over the pitch and then once the ball is won back, Instantly look for a forward pass, with men bursting forward.

I am guessing that for this type of game to work then space will be needed in the opponents half, so I cant push up too far.

Anyways, before I go too far into this, could somebody post up some videos/articles about the type of game I am trying to replicate to give me a better understanding of it ?

I'm currently using a 4-2-3-1 tactic that plays exactly this way but when you switch your mentality to attacking it by default makes your team play wider. I don't know anything about the strengths and weaknesses of your players but in my team my best players are not the wingers or full backs but my central midfielders and striker. With this being the case I use the shouts play higher and narrower, hassle opponents, get stuck in, get ball forward and exploit the middle. I have one of my full backs on an attacking duty just to give the opposition something to deal with in an attacking sense from out wide, as both of my wingers are set to inside forwards, one on attack the other support. My cm's are dlp defend and adv playmaker attack, with a cd stopper behind the apl and a ld cover behind the dlp.

This set up seems to have the effect of forcing my opponents onto the back foot allowing me to win possession high up the pitch, then play fast direct passes and through balls right through the centre of my opponents. It's served me well for a few seasons now and only seems to fail every once in a while in cup competitions against opponents I don't play very often for some reason.

To summarise, my best advice would be to make certain you learn how shouts impact the way your team plays, learn your own teams strengths and weaknesses and use the tc and shouts to maximise the chances that your tactic plays to your strengths and exposes your opponents weaknesses.

[tommonufc]

What sort of shape are you looking to play from? Which side are you playing with?

IF I push up too far, then that will result in the opposition penned back and me trying to pry them open a.k.a Barca. This I don't want.

If I set up too deep then I will likely be defending the whole game, also which i dont want.

Defending high up the field and pressing high won't necessarily see sides back off and park a bus. If you can play with a fast attacking style, and press high, win the ball i with 30 yards to the goal you will create plenty of chances. This would be something that I'd be looking for, in terms of the spectrum of pressing high, defending high, or sitting off a counter attacking.

What tactical instructions are you playing with?

[celtic1967]

I'm currently using a 4-2-3-1 tactic that plays exactly this way but when you switch your mentality to attacking it by default makes your team play wider. I don't know anything about the strengths and weaknesses of your players but in my team my best players are not the wingers or full backs but my central midfielders and striker. With this being the case I use the shouts play higher and narrower, hassle opponents, get stuck in, get ball forward and exploit the middle. I have one of my full backs on an attacking duty just to give the opposition something to deal with in an attacking sense from out wide, as both of my wingers are set to inside forwards, one on attack the other support. My cm's are dlp defend and adv playmaker attack, with a cd stopper behind the apl and a ld cover behind the dlp.

This set up seems to have the effect of forcing my opponents onto the back foot allowing me to win possession high up the pitch, then play fast direct passes and through balls right through the centre of my opponents. It's served me well for a few seasons now and only seems to fail every once in a while in cup competitions against opponents I don't play very often for some reason.

To summarise, my best advice would be to make certain you learn how shouts impact the way your team plays, learn your own teams strengths and weaknesses and use the tc and shouts to maximise the chances that your tactic plays to your strengths and exposes your opponents weaknesses.

Yeah, would you say it is better to play narrower with this type of tactic? Would this make it a little easier to win the ball back, with it being compact in the middle ?

How would playing narrow affect going forward ?

Key things I wan to implicate are high pressing, quick tempo, direct passing, players running forward when in possession.

Would need speed throughout the team with high stamina and work rate. Fast defenders as well If I am playing with a high DL.

What sort of shape are you looking to play from? Which side are you playing with?

IF I push up too far, then that will result in the opposition penned back and me trying to pry them open a.k.a Barca. This I don't want.

If I set up too deep then I will likely be defending the whole game, also which i dont want.

Defending high up the field and pressing high won't necessarily see sides back off and park a bus. If you can play with a fast attacking style, and press high, win the ball i with 30 yards to the goal you will create plenty of chances. This would be something that I'd be looking for, in terms of the spectrum of pressing high, defending high, or sitting off a counter attacking.

What tactical instructions are you playing with?

Currently not playing with anyone, was just wanting to get an insight into this type of tactic. I am thinking about choosing a good team with good, fast technical players so that I can learn about this tactic. The only team I can really think of is Napoli, who would you recommend I go ?

Yeah, I am going to try learn about the shouts so that I know what I am telling my team to do when using them.

[tommonufc]

When I think of fast paced attacking football I'd suggest Real Madrid or Tottenham. Real Madrid would give you great flexibility with the personnel.

[celtic1967]

When I think of fast paced attacking football I'd suggest Real Madrid or Tottenham. Real Madrid would give you great flexibility with the personnel.

Ok, gonna set up a game with RM then.

What I am wanting to do is, learn all about fast, attacking football with RM, and then try to replicate this with a very average side and bring them to greatness with this way of playing. Like someone else has allready made a thread about, creating a legacy!

So, if anyone has any input about attacking football, please post in here. All suggestions welcome.

Any ideas on what formation to use ?

EDIT, actually, would it be better to learn from a smaller team than RM? Since they have quality players the way the team would perform would be more down to the quality of the players rather than my tactic ?

[slipknot67]

Yeah, would you say it is better to play narrower with this type of tactic? Would this make it a little easier to win the ball back, with it being compact in the middle ?

How would playing narrow affect going forward ?

Key things I wan to implicate are high pressing, quick tempo, direct passing, players running forward when in possession.

Would need speed throughout the team with high stamina and work rate. Fast defenders as well If I am playing with a high DL.

Currently not playing with anyone, was just wanting to get an insight into this type of tactic. I am thinking about choosing a good team with good, fast technical players so that I can learn about this tactic. The only team I can really think of is Napoli, who would you recommend I go ?

Yeah, I am going to try learn about the shouts so that I know what I am telling my team to do when using them.

Not necessarily, it would depend more on player attributes for me. My centre mids abd strikers are more creative than my wingers, which is why I play that way. If you have fast creative wingers with good pace and crossing then I'd look to play down the wings and have them open up space from there, I just happen to have centrally placed players capable of punching more centrally and direct through the middle of my opponents so I have my team play to that strength.

The team I'm using and that already have the players at the start of the game to implement my style for the most part is actually Celtic. I started out playing attacking and wide as I was using Forrest and Sammy on the wings with only really Kayal providing any creativity in the middle but after 9 years have now got the type of players that suit a narrow strategy and also I make a point of picking the narrowest width of pitch at the start of every season so that any team who plays at our ground and tries to beat us with width will struggle whilst helping my narrow strategy be even more effective.

[celtic1967]

Why is this game so frustratingly hard ?

I am playing as Celtic and play a 4-3-3, two BWM and a CM attack in the centre with an AMR winger AML inside forward and a CF to help link it all together.

However, I find myself being outplayed in midfield by teams like ICT and Aberdeen. How is this happening when I have 3 of the best midfielders (by far) in the league in my team? They just keep the ball of me with ease, knocking it around and my players just stand there despite them being on close down whole pitch and team settings to press more.

It just seems like the 3 in midfield are not even there.

When defending there seems to be too much space between them and opponents just pass right through them.

When trying to attack they just push up too much which results in the player with the ball hoofing it long and losing it.

Really starting to **** me off now.

[slipknot67]

Why is this game so frustratingly hard ?

I am playing as Celtic and play a 4-3-3, two BWM and a CM attack in the centre with an AMR winger AML inside forward and a CF to help link it all together.

However, I find myself being outplayed in midfield by teams like ICT and Aberdeen. How is this happening when I have 3 of the best midfielders (by far) in the league in my team? They just keep the ball of me with ease, knocking it around and my players just stand there despite them being on close down whole pitch and team settings to press more.

It just seems like the 3 in midfield are not even there.

When defending there seems to be too much space between them and opponents just pass right through them.

When trying to attack they just push up too much which results in the player with the ball hoofing it long and losing it.

Really starting to **** me off now.

What did you pick as your starting reputation? I lost the league in my first season to Dundee Utd, which I put down to starting with automatic rep and teamtalks having a negative effect all the time. I hit on the workaround of having Mjallby take them until my rep increased enough for the players to start respecting me more, but by then it was too late to salvage the season.

If your starting rep is too low for the club your at in this years game it seems to punish you much more than in previous versions. If your squad hasn't gelled and your tactic isn't completely fluid in all areas it will only make matters worse. It may be a case of having to grit your teeth and endure a rubbish first season, which is what I did or you might want to consider starting a new save with ex international footballer as your past experience which should with a team like Celtic reduce the early teething problems quite a lot.

[celtic1967]

What did you pick as your starting reputation? I lost the league in my first season to Dundee Utd, which I put down to starting with automatic rep and teamtalks having a negative effect all the time. I hit on the workaround of having Mjallby take them until my rep increased enough for the players to start respecting me more, but by then it was too late to salvage the season.

If your starting rep is too low for the club your at in this years game it seems to punish you much more than in previous versions. If your squad hasn't gelled and your tactic isn't completely fluid in all areas it will only make matters worse. It may be a case of having to grit your teeth and endure a rubbish first season, which is what I did or you might want to consider starting a new save with ex international footballer as your past experience which should with a team like Celtic reduce the early teething problems quite a lot.

Sunday league footballer I chose. Yeah, from the start I have told my assistant to take team talks. Too much hassle they are haha.

I will do what you have suggested, although is it not cheating a little lol ?

So, went Celtic and looking at the squad, it is best for me to set up 4-4-2, 2 wingers and 2 BWM with a CF and poacher up front. No point in trying any other formation since I dont really have the players.

Just need to figure out which team and player instructions to use.

Ok, scrap the 4-4-2, I am going to concede that for me, its dead. Anytime I come up against a team with more men in midfield I just get over run and cannot play my game.

Going to look up a few threads on here and educate myself a little before I start up this game again!

[slipknot67]

Sunday league footballer I chose. Yeah, from the start I have told my assistant to take team talks. Too much hassle they are haha.

I will do what you have suggested, although is it not cheating a little lol ?

So, went Celtic and looking at the squad, it is best for me to set up 4-4-2, 2 wingers and 2 BWM with a CF and poacher up front. No point in trying any other formation since I dont really have the players.

Just need to figure out which team and player instructions to use.

Ok, scrap the 4-4-2, I am going to concede that for me, its dead. Anytime I come up against a team with more men in midfield I just get over run and cannot play my game.

Going to look up a few threads on here and educate myself a little before I start up this game again!

Just noticed your edit, you might have more luck with the 4-4-2 with only one bwm on a defend duty and one cm on an advanced playmaker role with an attack duty. Off the top of my head I think Kayal might be the most suitable player in the starting Celtic team to use as the more attacking cm. I think I had Ledley as my bwm, Brown wide right and Forrest rotating with Sammy wide left. Izzy was on fb attack behind forrest or Sammy set to winger support and Brown as wide midfielder attack with Lustig behind him as a fb defend. CB's were the usual stopper - cover set up with the stopper behind Kayal so he'd push up and fill the space left by Kayal when he went on attacking runs. Rogne and Mulgrew were my usual starters at cb.

I usually played Stokes up front ahead of Kayal as a dlf support and Hooper next to him as a poacher.

[celtic1967]

Yeah Its kind of a pain that the 3 best players are all BWM haha!

I am trying to create a 4-1-2-3, been having a look at Cleons thread and have learned quite a bit. He mentions stuff I would never of thought of, but what makes soo much sense.

Going to try and sell Wanyama and Brown, use that money to bring in more creative players which that tactic needs. Kayal fits into the DM spot well, so will not miss those too much.

IMO, creativity is something Celtic are missing IRL, we have a good, strong squad, but lack that cutting edge.

So, get rid of some of the robust midfielders and bring in some more technically gifted.

Lasad is the closest I have to a trequartista so have been using him in that position. Hooper is a poacher, which is a shame as he wont fit into this tactic, will have to offload him too as well as stokes.

Going to be some transformation once I am done.

Matthews and izzy fit perfectly as wing backs, will need to find a BPD however, Mulgrew will have to do for now.

Any recommendations for a good BPD, AP and trequartista ?

[slipknot67]

Yeah Its kind of a pain that the 3 best players are all BWM haha!

I am trying to create a 4-1-2-3, been having a look at Cleons thread and have learned quite a bit. He mentions stuff I would never of thought of, but what makes soo much sense.

Going to try and sell Wanyama and Brown, use that money to bring in more creative players which that tactic needs. Kayal fits into the DM spot well, so will not miss those too much.

IMO, creativity is something Celtic are missing IRL, we have a good, strong squad, but lack that cutting edge.

So, get rid of some of the robust midfielders and bring in some more technically gifted.

Lasad is the closest I have to a trequartista so have been using him in that position. Hooper is a poacher, which is a shame as he wont fit into this tactic, will have to offload him too as well as stokes.

Going to be some transformation once I am done.

Matthews and izzy fit perfectly as wing backs, will need to find a BPD however, Mulgrew will have to do for now.

Any recommendations for a good BPD, AP and trequartista ?

If you don't mind signing a former Ger, Danny Wilson has done a great job for me as a bpd, looking to move him on now mind you as he's 30 and I like to keep my first team young but should definitely do a job for you and Liverpool are usually looking to offload him early from what I've seen in my game.

For Trequartista, if your in the first season you should definitely get Adryan, young Brazillian playing for Flamengo with a release clause of 875k. I got him first season and he's far and away my best player now, I use him in cm as an adv playmaker and everything goes through him when we're attacking but he's natural at Amc and should turn out great as a treq with training and games...one for the future though, is very young and needs some development.

[celtic1967]

If you don't mind signing a former Ger, Danny Wilson has done a great job for me as a bpd, looking to move him on now mind you as he's 30 and I like to keep my first team young but should definitely do a job for you and Liverpool are usually looking to offload him early from what I've seen in my game.

cheers, will look to get him in.