Not again! This is difficult...

[Daffius]

To start off, just like most I've been playing these games for a while now. However have never claimed - nor do I do now - that I fully understand every aspect of it to the last slider. Yet, with some tweaking and playing I've always managed to get my teams to decent league positions and occational wins (usually in late years). As an example, I started a Hungarian L2 journeyman game last season and got promoted on my 2nd season if I remember correctly. Around Season 6-7 I actually won the league once and managed to reach the group stage in CL, before dropping of with 6 defeats.

BUT!

FM2013 is killing me!

I start of with a Hungarian L2 team (sunday league player), Putnok who want to avoid relegation. I sign some players, fix my usual tactic 4 (LB, CB, CB, RB) -2 (DM,DM)- 3 (AMR,AMC, AML) - 1 (Poacher) a'la Real Madrid and get trashed in my first 2 games. I then go in, tweak some more put focus on tactics and manage a draw in my next game. Then 2 more defeats! I'm getting nervous and tweaking some more... nothing happens.

After half a season and with a couple of wins and draws I'm sitting in relegation, so I scrap the tactic and go for a classic default 4-4-2. Since I'm short on ML, MR as that wasn't my signing policy things don't go well.

NUF said, I get relegated and get sacked (it happens). I believe I've learnt my lesson, I manage to get another club (Baktalórántháza) and load up a tactic I've been playing with previously a lot of times, mainly in away games. Hoping my leak in defence gets covered. 4 (LB, CB, CB, RB) - 1 (DM) - 2 (MC, MC) - 2 (AMR, AML) - 1 (FW). I win my first 2 games!!! (Never won 2 in a row), but then things go bad... Then they turn from bad to worse.

My team talks are fine, despite the losses the mood is mainly green. I signed some decent players (my tranfer kitty is €30k so take that with a pinch of salt), my best player is on €1600/month (still loosing money btw). I start tweaking were I see gaps but to no avail. It's the last game of the season and I need a draw to stay in... 0-3 at home. Relegation and I get fired.

It's my third season and surprisingly a semi large club that just got relegated from L1 offers me the job. Large tranfer kitty of €280k (up to €380k with adjusted budget). I buy some good players and start off. 2 wins then a loss. However now board expectations is top half finish (it was the lowest I could choose). Well guess what, I'm sitting in 7th place after 7 games and my wins are usually 1 goal leads.

I know it should be difficult and this is in no way a rant, but this is extremely hard for me in this version. I know many of you will drop in to say they are unbeaten with Vauxhall in the premier league. Good for you!

I read the forums and know that this year it's been changed and stuff like weather, opposition tactics etc play a much larger role - as it should - but still...

I haven't dropped the game yet, but there is a thin line between 'fun challenge' and 'frustration'. This is balancing that thin line. I think I need to drop by the tactics forum, but I always felt like that's cheating. And to be honest, do you really need to search the net to be able to play the game succesfully.

Anyway, I felt like sharing (as it's a forum) and get it off my chest. Mission accomplished.

[Bobble2002]

I think this years game will frustrate a lot of people until a lot of the kinks have been ironed out of the ME . From the posts it seems defenders dont defend . Midfielders dont pass forward or try killer balls . Strikers dont like scoring .Goalies dont like saving

SI rushed out the new ME and it seems its nowhere near up to scratch . Looks prettier but still needs an awful lot of work .

My choice at the moment is veering towards going back to 12 for a year and seeing what 14 is like next year .

I read the thread about forgetting the sliders and just using the TC but that defeats the point of having the sliders in there at all . They are there to tweak the settings and surely the TC is just a basis to work from .

[tlm_77]

SI didn't rush the ME at all and if you read up on posts that people take a lot of time to write (wwfan for one) you will no doubt find (as I have) that their advice on tactics etc is spot on.

The ME is the very BEST there ever has been imo.

Now I've re-thought how I approach the game, I win loads, score loads and love it. 8 seasons in now.

[Vernum]

SI didn't rush the ME at all and if you read up on posts that people take a lot of time to write (wwfan for one) you will no doubt find (as I have) that their advice on tactics etc is spot on.

The ME is the very BEST there ever has been imo.

Now I've re-thought how I approach the game, I win loads, score loads and love it. 8 seasons in now.

You can win most of the time by working around the bugs or exploiting them yourself but that doesnt make the me any less bugged. And winning with a strategy that would work in real football would be infinity more rewarding than winning because we exploited me flaws.

[tlm_77]

You can win most of the time by working around the bugs or exploiting them yourself but that doesnt make the me any less bugged. And winning with a strategy that would work in real football would be infinity more rewarding than winning because we exploited me flaws.

I play a basic 4-4-2. Definitely NOT spent any time thinking about how to work round the ME etc.

Just set up a basic 4-4-2, left the sliders alone, thought more about what types of players would work well together and that's it.

In the matches, I have 2 types of 4-4-2 - attacking and more counter-style.

I've started using shouts too, not sure what effect they have yet but thats all really.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

SI didn't rush the ME at all and if you read up on posts that people take a lot of time to write (wwfan for one) you will no doubt find (as I have) that their advice on tactics etc is spot on.

The ME is the very BEST there ever has been imo.

Now I've re-thought how I approach the game, I win loads, score loads and love it. 8 seasons in now.

You mean overly complicated for a game and like reading War and Peace don't you?

[tlm_77]

You mean overly complicated for a game and like reading War and Peace don't you?

You seriously think FM is too complicated?

If that's the case, then stick to FIFA2013 or something similar mate.

I've played the series since the start all those years ago and every single version is simple to navigate.

The only difficult part of the game is mastering the tactical side - oh wait, rather like real life then!

[MacZidane]

. From the posts it seems defenders dont defend . Midfielders dont pass forward or try killer balls . Strikers dont like scoring .Goalies dont like saving

That is exactly correct. From the posts on here, all these things do happen.

Of course, the reality of the situation is that none of them do. The one about midfielders 'not playing killer balls' is particularly laughable. As is the one about strikers not scoring.

[wwfan]

I start tweaking where I see gaps but to no avail.

As soon as I read this, I know where the problem is.

OP, please come to the tactics forum next time you are online and we'll put you back on the right path.

[Daffius]

Just set up a basic 4-4-2, left the sliders alone...

That's exactly the issue. I love playing with the tactical sliders and thinking how I would like my game to play out. What I now feel is when I'm creating a tactic and telling my wingers to draw the full backs and then pass to my B2B midfielder who in turn tries a through ball, then I'm 'overly complicating' it. Yes, maybe the basic 4-4-2 works or another tactic, however no matter how hard I try I can't create my own to get my team to play the way I (!) want them to play.

Another example is my DM. It doesn't matter if I have 1 or 2, wether I'm using Anchorman or DM, wether I have defensive mentality and hard tackle... They still seem to let the opponent run by them anytime, without closing down or attempting a tackle.

Now, I do understand that I'm playing a lower league, hence I don't have extreme expectations of my players. But I'd expect the same level of tactical discipline from my opponents.

The ME is the very BEST there ever has been imo.

I'll reserve judgement on that until I understand if it is indeed my fault. As for the 'playability' factor, based on the fact that I will now have to visit the tactics forum, or as you wrote in another similar thread, you had to read wwfan's guide to get your team working; does in fact mean there is an issue with the complexity/learning curve/ME, whatever you wish to call it. I just call it my playability factor.

@wwfan: thanks for the positive response, I'll do that. I did read your guide though, but I guess I indeed need to learn a bit more about this years system before giving it another go.

[jlawlor91]

Thing that annoys me with FM this year is that it took me AGES to get into a save where I had some sort of success e.g. meeting my expectations and not sitting in the relegation zone.

The main problem with FM is that it is so scripted TIME and TIME again. If you overachieve by beating bigger sides, you are 100% certain to drop points against weaker teams and you can see it a mile away. Same applies to going ahead and the other side turning around; regardless of your tactics.

I just played Newcastle as Swansea with a 4-4-1-1 at home attacking. 65 mins in it's been fairly even with us probably on top. Coloccini gets sent off. I keep things the same; if 11 men can't counter than 10 won't. 85 minutes in you can guess what happens. Ridiculous.

[MacZidane]

I just played Newcastle as Swansea with a 4-4-1-1 at home attacking. 65 mins in it's been fairly even with us probably on top. Coloccini gets sent off. I keep things the same; if 11 men can't counter than 10 won't. 85 minutes in you can guess what happens. Ridiculous.

Haha, it's 'ridiculous' that your team loses a late goal at home to a team playing with ten men?

Because that's never happened in the history of the world ever, has it?

Did you check Newcastle's formation after they went down to ten men? And if so, was there something in your own formation that could have been tweaked to reduce the risk of a breakaway goal?

When either my team or the opposition have a player sent off, I spend a bit of time looking at how the two teams are going to line up for the rest of the match, as it can have quite a bearing on how it finishes.

[jlawlor91]

Haha, it's 'ridiculous' that your team loses a late goal at home to a team playing with ten men?

Because that's never happened in the history of the world ever, has it?

Did you check Newcastle's formation after they went down to ten men? And if so, was there something in your own formation that could have been tweaked to reduce the risk of a breakaway goal?

When either my team or the opposition have a player sent off, I spend a bit of time looking at how the two teams are going to line up for the rest of the match, as it can have quite a bearing on how it finishes.

I understand it occurs in football from time to time; just the fact I could see it coming when it didn't add up. Their formation stayed the same, but I don't feel I was in a position to change my strategy because we dictated the match with the extra man.

Edit: Although we were attacking, I made sure we were aware of the counter. With no comfortable left mids I had a left wing back ahead of my left full back on attack. Along with this I had Michu behind the striker attacking and Hernandez on the right attacking as well

[Kenco]

Thing that annoys me with FM this year is that it took me AGES to get into a save where I had some sort of success e.g. meeting my expectations and not sitting in the relegation zone.

The main problem with FM is that it is so scripted TIME and TIME again. If you overachieve by beating bigger sides, you are 100% certain to drop points against weaker teams and you can see it a mile away. Same applies to going ahead and the other side turning around; regardless of your tactics.

I just played Newcastle as Swansea with a 4-4-1-1 at home attacking. 65 mins in it's been fairly even with us probably on top. Coloccini gets sent off. I keep things the same; if 11 men can't counter than 10 won't. 85 minutes in you can guess what happens. Ridiculous.

FM is not scripted, you just don't know how to adapt to the situation.

In your example of the red card, you say you kept things the same, kept attacking against the 10 men when you were leading. You have to realise that the AI was probably happy to keep playing defensive until the last 10 mins to keep the score down, then went on the attack to rescue a point. The AI changes tactics quite often, you can't just expect to keep things the same to win every game and expect the AI not to change things. This is basic FM tactics we are talking about.

[Kenco]

I understand it occurs in football from time to time; just the fact I could see it coming when it didn't add up. Their formation stayed the same, but I don't feel I was in a position to change my strategy because we dictated the match with the extra man.

Edit: Although we were attacking, I made sure we were aware of the counter. With no comfortable left mids I had a left wing back ahead of my left full back on attack. Along with this I had Michu behind the striker attacking and Hernandez on the right attacking as well

The extra man is irrelevant - if you are one goal up in the last 10 mins, the opposition are likely to change strategy to get back into the game. You need to consider this and play more cautiously, regardless of how much you dominated earlier.

[Vector]

I don't find any noticeable flaw. I've been playing like I always did and I'm doing fine for the moment

[mooty]

I play a basic 4-4-2. Definitely NOT spent any time thinking about how to work round the ME etc.

Just set up a basic 4-4-2, left the sliders alone...

Oh enough with the 'simple 4-4-2' already!!! What if I don't want to play that? What if I want to use a different formation, with different mentality? It simply won't work. No matter what club I manage anything other then a 'simple 4-4-2' will fail. This years FM is UNPLAYABLE. Sure you can load a 'simple 4-4-2' and watch the players running around, but that is NOT what Football Manager is about. I want to use sliders, I want to tweak around tactics. Whatever I do, I start losing games like OP said...

[Tinkerman84]

To start off, just like most I've been playing these games for a while now. However have never claimed - nor do I do now - that I fully understand every aspect of it to the last slider. Yet, with some tweaking and playing I've always managed to get my teams to decent league positions and occational wins (usually in late years). As an example, I started a Hungarian L2 journeyman game last season and got promoted on my 2nd season if I remember correctly. Around Season 6-7 I actually won the league once and managed to reach the group stage in CL, before dropping of with 6 defeats.

BUT!

FM2013 is killing me!

I start of with a Hungarian L2 team (sunday league player), Putnok who want to avoid relegation. I sign some players, fix my usual tactic 4 (LB, CB, CB, RB) -2 (DM,DM)- 3 (AMR,AMC, AML) - 1 (Poacher) a'la Real Madrid and get trashed in my first 2 games. I then go in, tweak some more put focus on tactics and manage a draw in my next game. Then 2 more defeats! I'm getting nervous and tweaking some more... nothing happens.

After half a season and with a couple of wins and draws I'm sitting in relegation, so I scrap the tactic and go for a classic default 4-4-2. Since I'm short on ML, MR as that wasn't my signing policy things don't go well.

NUF said, I get relegated and get sacked (it happens). I believe I've learnt my lesson, I manage to get another club (Baktalórántháza) and load up a tactic I've been playing with previously a lot of times, mainly in away games. Hoping my leak in defence gets covered. 4 (LB, CB, CB, RB) - 1 (DM) - 2 (MC, MC) - 2 (AMR, AML) - 1 (FW). I win my first 2 games!!! (Never won 2 in a row), but then things go bad... Then they turn from bad to worse.

My team talks are fine, despite the losses the mood is mainly green. I signed some decent players (my tranfer kitty is €30k so take that with a pinch of salt), my best player is on €1600/month (still loosing money btw). I start tweaking were I see gaps but to no avail. It's the last game of the season and I need a draw to stay in... 0-3 at home. Relegation and I get fired.

It's my third season and surprisingly a semi large club that just got relegated from L1 offers me the job. Large tranfer kitty of €280k (up to €380k with adjusted budget). I buy some good players and start off. 2 wins then a loss. However now board expectations is top half finish (it was the lowest I could choose). Well guess what, I'm sitting in 7th place after 7 games and my wins are usually 1 goal leads.

I know it should be difficult and this is in no way a rant, but this is extremely hard for me in this version. I know many of you will drop in to say they are unbeaten with Vauxhall in the premier league. Good for you!

I read the forums and know that this year it's been changed and stuff like weather, opposition tactics etc play a much larger role - as it should - but still...

I haven't dropped the game yet, but there is a thin line between 'fun challenge' and 'frustration'. This is balancing that thin line. I think I need to drop by the tactics forum, but I always felt like that's cheating. And to be honest, do you really need to search the net to be able to play the game succesfully.

Anyway, I felt like sharing (as it's a forum) and get it off my chest. Mission accomplished.

I always complained about the ME deficiencies and general incompletness of game during the release time.. but i never complained about game difficulty.. i am well awared of dificulty to win.. bu i am more than pleased with that.. after the update at least watching the matches on field seems enjoyable i can empose my playing style to my team the way i want.. ( i don't bother to win , or loss)

there're still some issues to be ironed out in the next update but imho being difficult to win especially with low reputation teams is not a bad thing.. this year every match has its own story an i really liked that.. i even don't follow the 12 steps guide to understan the game.. i empose my style using the sliders and my own traning ways sometimes i succeeed sometimes i lose for all.. but i know if i have the rgiht players and resources i can win something.. nevertheless it is enough for me to be able to press with more than one player at a time, to be able to see shoulder to shoulder challenges ( thnks to collision detection), and much more realisitic movement of players with and without ball..

[Gary_Parker]

Thing that annoys me with FM this year is that it took me AGES to get into a save where I had some sort of success e.g. meeting my expectations and not sitting in the relegation zone.

The main problem with FM is that it is so scripted TIME and TIME again. If you overachieve by beating bigger sides, you are 100% certain to drop points against weaker teams and you can see it a mile away. Same applies to going ahead and the other side turning around; regardless of your tactics.

I just played Newcastle as Swansea with a 4-4-1-1 at home attacking. 65 mins in it's been fairly even with us probably on top. Coloccini gets sent off. I keep things the same; if 11 men can't counter than 10 won't. 85 minutes in you can guess what happens. Ridiculous.

The game is definitely not scripted, what it does is punish complacency. You have the team talk thing for players about not getting complacent, the same should apply to the managers. Thats what i've learned for the games. Nothing is set in stone in this game. Play the same match 10 times over, you'll see that most things are different each time in terms of play style, in play actions, chances etc. Some things appear to frustrate more than others (apart from the 1:1 shots on target to goals ratio from the AI, thats just a cruel joke that happens way too often to be coincidence IMO) but if you regularly find yourself conceding goals late on, the old cliche of "its your tactic" isn't far off. Its probably more your mentality (both team and manager) expecting that because you're winning and dominating, what can go wrong!

I used to hate playing this game on anything other than commentary only because both the 2D and 3D were boring and took way too much of my time. If I watched the games, it would literally take me 3 weeks to complete a regular season in the game as I only have time to really play for 30 mins a day. Now though, i've accepted that to do well, or better than I am doing, I need to use that time and actually watch the game, read the forums for the great posts from the likes of wwfan and cleon and others who actually spend their own time, for free!, trying to help others out. Take advantage of their knowledge of this game and its ways and build your own thoughts from there, after you've got the basics from those guys. You don't need a "simple 4-4-2" as you put it, other formations all work, but these guys suggestions on roles, still apply.

[scott MUFC]

i'm trying to find a tactic that works over all saves, impossible as it requires so much micro-managment of players to make it function.

[leeturner]

SI didn't rush the ME at all and if you read up on posts that people take a lot of time to write (wwfan for one) you will no doubt find (as I have) that their advice on tactics etc is spot on.

The ME is the very BEST there ever has been imo.

Now I've re-thought how I approach the game, I win loads, score loads and love it. 8 seasons in now.

But in WWFAN's guide doesn't he tell you to stay away from the sliders? That would indicate to me that there is a problem with the sliders and instructions being applied correctly so that would mean that there is a problem with the ME.

The game is bloody frustrating. Its like having the carcass of a Ferrari with a mini engine. It looks great from the outside and when you look at it you think that's going to be amazing, but when you actually use it the feeling you get is nothing like what you expect it to be and it spoils your experience as a fan.

The game should be playable, you shouldnt have to read copius amounts of guides just to be able to make a formation. What you apply in the TC should be translated to a certain extent into the ME. In my opinion, there are too many random elements, I just dont feel as if the decisions I am taking are having any affect, its more to do with hope than anything.

I spent the weekend (as missus was away) trying various different strategies and I just couldnt get any consistency. Last night I loaded up my beloved FM12 Swindon career game. I shall be playing that for the extended future.

So, I completely feel the OP's pain and agree. I dont want to bash, its just bloody frustrating!

[themadsheep2001]

But in WWFAN's guide doesn't he tell you to stay away from the sliders? That would indicate to me that there is a problem with the sliders and instructions being applied correctly so that would mean that there is a problem with the ME.

The game is bloody frustrating. Its like having the carcass of a Ferrari with a mini engine. It looks great from the outside and when you look at it you think that's going to be amazing, but when you actually use it the feeling you get is nothing like what you expect it to be and it spoils your experience as a fan.

The game should be playable, you shouldnt have to read copius amounts of guides just to be able to make a formation. What you apply in the TC should be translated to a certain extent into the ME. In my opinion, there are too many random elements, I just dont feel as if the decisions I am taking are having any affect, its more to do with hope than anything.

I spent the weekend (as missus was away) trying various different strategies and I just couldnt get any consistency. Last night I loaded up my beloved FM12 Swindon career game. I shall be playing that for the extended future.

So, I completely feel the OP's pain and agree. I dont want to bash, its just bloody frustrating!

If you read the thread, he says that because some people overly fiddle and tweak with them without really knowing what they are doing. There is no inherent problem with the ME, other than various bugs needing to be ironed out.

You dont have to read copious guides. I decided I wanted to play like Dortmund, it took me 3 minutes to emulate it, and I haven't looked back since in my save.

What you apply in the TC is what you get

[Kenco]

But in WWFAN's guide doesn't he tell you to stay away from the sliders? That would indicate to me that there is a problem with the sliders and instructions being applied correctly so that would mean that there is a problem with the ME.

The game is bloody frustrating. Its like having the carcass of a Ferrari with a mini engine. It looks great from the outside and when you look at it you think that's going to be amazing, but when you actually use it the feeling you get is nothing like what you expect it to be and it spoils your experience as a fan.

The game should be playable, you shouldnt have to read copius amounts of guides just to be able to make a formation. What you apply in the TC should be translated to a certain extent into the ME. In my opinion, there are too many random elements, I just dont feel as if the decisions I am taking are having any affect, its more to do with hope than anything.

I spent the weekend (as missus was away) trying various different strategies and I just couldnt get any consistency. Last night I loaded up my beloved FM12 Swindon career game. I shall be playing that for the extended future.

So, I completely feel the OP's pain and agree. I dont want to bash, its just bloody frustrating!

He says to stay away from sliders unless you fully understand how they impact upon the ME.

You don't need to read lots of guides, you just need to watch the matches and see where things are going wrong and how to change things so they go in your favour. Watching games is the best way to understand the ME and how your tactics are playing out.

[Kenco]

Oh enough with the 'simple 4-4-2' already!!! What if I don't want to play that? What if I want to use a different formation, with different mentality? It simply won't work. No matter what club I manage anything other then a 'simple 4-4-2' will fail. This years FM is UNPLAYABLE. Sure you can load a 'simple 4-4-2' and watch the players running around, but that is NOT what Football Manager is about. I want to use sliders, I want to tweak around tactics. Whatever I do, I start losing games like OP said...

Do you understand exactly how the sliders affect your tactics? Unless you are 100% confident in them, it's best not to alter them. Stick to the TC to begin with and results will improve. You can still have quite interesting formations / tactics without manually adjusting sliders.

[tlm_77]

Oh enough with the 'simple 4-4-2' already!!! What if I don't want to play that? What if I want to use a different formation, with different mentality? It simply won't work. No matter what club I manage anything other then a 'simple 4-4-2' will fail. This years FM is UNPLAYABLE. Sure you can load a 'simple 4-4-2' and watch the players running around, but that is NOT what Football Manager is about. I want to use sliders, I want to tweak around tactics. Whatever I do, I start losing games like OP said...

I suggest you just don't buy FM again and don't play this version again then.

You appear to be the type who just spit their dummy out because they're not winning matches.

For your information, I am currently thoroughly enjoying FM13 playing a 4-4-2 system, however, I've also been very impressed with other formations - the point about 4-4-2 for me was that I have NEVER been able to create a 4-4-2 that worked well, now I have.

You SHOULD be able to pick any formation you want and providing you have the players who can play and play WELL in the key areas of the pitch within your tactics, then you SHOULD win matches.

There's so many variations in FM though, so much to consider.

Perhaps an 'easier' way to start may be to manage a masive club, play the tactics you want and when you're winning games and are confident that the tactic is ME sound, then manage who you really want?

I spent many an hour 'quit-starting' and re-playing the same games over and over to see what things changed when I changed things.

Put the time and effort in and it's rewarding....or just stop moaning and claiming the game is unplayable - and don't play it.

Hope you do though, you'll see what I mean when you get things clicking, ME is awesome.

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

You seriously think FM is too complicated?

If that's the case, then stick to FIFA2013 or something similar mate.

I've played the series since the start all those years ago and every single version is simple to navigate.

The only difficult part of the game is mastering the tactical side - oh wait, rather like real life then!

I'm a qualified footy coach with more qualifications in the sport than you know exist. So I do know what I'm talking about. Unlike some, who just accept some of the stuff written here. Especially in the tactics section! 99% of those so called experts say is plain wrong and just repeated dogma from commentators and pundits who sadly are the reason why the English game is so poor at the moment.

Most of the game is pretty good but there are some parts of the game that are just wrong!

[mooty]

I suggest you just don't buy FM again and don't play this version again then.

You appear to be the type who just spit their dummy out because they're not winning matches.

Thats not the case. I'm fine with being mid table or even being at the bottom of the league if I deserve it, but I'm losing matches that I shouldn't and the way I lose them makes me mad.

Perhaps an 'easier' way to start may be to manage a masive club, play the tactics you want and when you're winning games and are confident that the tactic is ME sound, then manage who you really want?

I tried that too. Managed Barcelona, can't get better than that right? I couldn't win matches, the football looked rubbish, changed to 4-4-2 - ta-da all of a sudden I'm winning, and in a way that is expected of Barcelona. All I'm trying to say, that I can't find anything other than the 'simple 4-4-2' that looks good, and bringing the results as well. Therefore I think it is more the ME's fault than mine.

[wwfan]

Somebody's gone on a 45 match unbeaten streak using my interpretation of the Barca system, which is a hybrid of a 4-1-2-2-1 / 4-6-0. Straight import of an FM11 tactic that I hadn't even tried in FM13 and it is working like a charm.

[tlm_77]

I'm a qualified footy coach with more qualifications in the sport than you know exist. So I do know what I'm talking about. Unlike some' date=' who just accept some of the stuff written here. Especially in the tactics section! 99% of those so called experts say is plain wrong and just repeated dogma from commentators and pundits who sadly are the reason why the English game is so poor at the moment.

Most of the game is pretty good but there are some parts of the game that are just wrong![/quote']

It'll never be perfect and never be true to real life, it's always going to be a game.

Just can't understand the hostility towards the game. It's changing each year, but it seems some gamers arent/wont.

P.S. I have no reason to doubt your qualifications but to insult me by suggesting I don't know what exists is uncalled for and completely presumptious.

[tlm_77]

Thats not the case. I'm fine with being mid table or even being at the bottom of the league if I deserve it, but I'm losing matches that I shouldn't and the way I lose them makes me mad.

I tried that too. Managed Barcelona, can't get better than that right? I couldn't win matches, the football looked rubbish, changed to 4-4-2 - ta-da all of a sudden I'm winning, and in a way that is expected of Barcelona. All I'm trying to say, that I can't find anything other than the 'simple 4-4-2' that looks good, and bringing the results as well. Therefore I think it is more the ME's fault than mine.

I disagree still.

I have a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 formation with IF's and W's and it works nicely.

I also made a really weird 2-3-2-3 formation with no striker ala real Barca and it's amazing BUT it only really worked with Barca.

Lastly, everyone loses matches they fully expect to win - happens ALL THE TIME irl.

[leeturner]

He says to stay away from sliders unless you fully understand how they impact upon the ME.

You don't need to read lots of guides, you just need to watch the matches and see where things are going wrong and how to change things so they go in your favour. Watching games is the best way to understand the ME and how your tactics are playing out.

Thats the thing, in previous FM's when ammending tactics and applying tweaks based on the match I am playing I felt that what I was trying to apply was being translated into the ME. I could see what my changes were doing.

In this current version, I dont feel as if I have control. For example, if I ask my players to play wider, pass into space and exploit flanks which I often do if chasing the game against a team with a lack of midfield/wingers. When I apply in the current version, one game It seems to work and I can see it taking affect. If I try again in a future game in similar scenario's, I dont see the change being applied. I am not expecting what I do to provide instant results or mean that I win, I just want to see what I am applying translated into the ME.

Everyone keeps saying " you shouldnt touch the sliders if you dont know how it can affect the ME" ? That seems very elitest to me. I am not trying to make out I am a tactical genius but I am more than aware of football, and Champ/FM and feel I have enough knowledge to apply my thinking but its a struggle when the consistency isnt there.

I also dont understand how slider affect and ME results seem so much more extreme in this version. I dont see how a method that can be applied in previous FM's can have such a different affect.

It also begs the question, why so much different? What was so wrong with previous ME's, or is just a way to make the game "fresh" every year, ie apply a whole new set of variables in the ME in order to make people "learn" it again

[leeturner]

I also want to point out that I am not ranting, or don't wish to give that impression. Just feel frustrated!

[Tinkerman84]

But in WWFAN's guide doesn't he tell you to stay away from the sliders? That would indicate to me that there is a problem with the sliders and instructions being applied correctly so that would mean that there is a problem with the ME.

The game is bloody frustrating. Its like having the carcass of a Ferrari with a mini engine. It looks great from the outside and when you look at it you think that's going to be amazing, but when you actually use it the feeling you get is nothing like what you expect it to be and it spoils your experience as a fan.

The game should be playable, you shouldnt have to read copius amounts of guides just to be able to make a formation. What you apply in the TC should be translated to a certain extent into the ME. In my opinion, there are too many random elements, I just dont feel as if the decisions I am taking are having any affect, its more to do with hope than anything.

I spent the weekend (as missus was away) trying various different strategies and I just couldnt get any consistency. Last night I loaded up my beloved FM12 Swindon career game. I shall be playing that for the extended future.

So, I completely feel the OP's pain and agree. I dont want to bash, its just bloody frustrating!

What does consistancy exactly mean? In my view taking up the job suddenly, bringing few players in couple of months, imposing a new formation and style to a 25 player team, trial-error methoding to understand which is best for your team in tactic&traning wise normally requires 1 season to get used to.. and cocnsistancy can't be defined as winning 5 matches consequently.. In real life it is just like this.. only exceptional managers and teams can reduce this time.. and i love the fact that this year game simulates this thing at full effect..

i always use the sliders and fan of these settings.. tweaking in a logical manner, right players, right traning, and patience brings success..

there are still some Me issues that SI aware of, but after 13.1.3, saying its unplayable game is far form being fair..

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

Some people give the impression that the game is extremely complicated and needs micromanagement to be successful. It doesn't.

It's just that no one has released a walk through that way.

[BiggusD]

Thats the thing, in previous FM's when ammending tactics and applying tweaks based on the match I am playing I felt that what I was trying to apply was being translated into the ME. I could see what my changes were doing.

In this current version, I dont feel as if I have control. For example, if I ask my players to play wider, pass into space and exploit flanks which I often do if chasing the game against a team with a lack of midfield/wingers. When I apply in the current version, one game It seems to work and I can see it taking affect. If I try again in a future game in similar scenario's, I dont see the change being applied. I am not expecting what I do to provide instant results or mean that I win, I just want to see what I am applying translated into the ME.

Everyone keeps saying " you shouldnt touch the sliders if you dont know how it can affect the ME" ? That seems very elitest to me. I am not trying to make out I am a tactical genius but I am more than aware of football, and Champ/FM and feel I have enough knowledge to apply my thinking but its a struggle when the consistency isnt there.

I also dont understand how slider affect and ME results seem so much more extreme in this version. I dont see how a method that can be applied in previous FM's can have such a different affect.

It also begs the question, why so much different? What was so wrong with previous ME's, or is just a way to make the game "fresh" every year, ie apply a whole new set of variables in the ME in order to make people "learn" it again

I think the problem is the exact opposite; the tactical changes have very large effects on the way football is played in the ME. Even tiny changes like having your full-back's mentality on 12 instead of 8 could upset both the defensive and offensive balance of your tactic, at least if you push forward. This means that there are combinations of roles/duties/strategies that work well, and combinations that won't work well, and the difference between them could be a midfield duo set to A/D instead of S/S. In other words, if your tactic isn't working to begin with, any change you do is as likely to make things worse as it is to improve it.

I believe that while many users are happy with this, because they get to see shouts and strategy changes making an actual difference, just as many people are very disappointed with this change of direction because players won't do what they're told to unless their instructions resemble the default ones rather closely.

[leeturner]

Lol, I feel I have made a bit of a boo-boo. Based on the weekend anyway!

Anyhoo, the posts above were based mainly on 2 different games I had going on at the same time, Dortmund and a separate Swindon game. These games were originally created with the first version of the match engine/game code. What I was applying in those games was not working at all, or would simply work one game and not the next (in terms of in game shouts, not tactics or dramatic changes to playing style etc)

I started a new game on the weekend, my first from scratch with the new patch/me etc. What do you know, my players respond well, my tactics work, the shouts work it all bloody seems to work exactly how it should do.

And what do you know, my team is playing how I would expect it to, the shouts are having the desired affect. The game is enjoyable (at least for me) again.

[leeturner]

Some people give the impression that the game is extremely complicated and needs micromanagement to be successful. It doesn't.

It's just that no one has released a walk through that way.

Thanks for the helpful response, very insightful.

[leeturner]

What does consistancy exactly mean? In my view taking up the job suddenly, bringing few players in couple of months, imposing a new formation and style to a 25 player team, trial-error methoding to understand which is best for your team in tactic&traning wise normally requires 1 season to get used to.. and cocnsistancy can't be defined as winning 5 matches consequently.. In real life it is just like this.. only exceptional managers and teams can reduce this time.. and i love the fact that this year game simulates this thing at full effect..

i always use the sliders and fan of these settings.. tweaking in a logical manner, right players, right traning, and patience brings success..

there are still some Me issues that SI aware of, but after 13.1.3, saying its unplayable game is far form being fair..

The consistency was more with the shouts/changes I was making in game. They never seem to be consistent in result, ie if I tell players to play wider some games when this instruction was applied, they didnt play wide. The next game they would, for example. More in match inconsistency's than generally.

Also, it transpaires since I have started a new game from scratch I dont seem to be affected anymore, so happy days!

[Hurball]

I get the impression more and more that what I do in the game has little bearing on the result. Yes, in reality teams have no possession or chances and win games from time to time, not in 25% of their games...

I get battered by teams and scrape draws or wins, or I batter teams and don't ever take the lead, or I match a team throughout a game only to lose 4-0 with only 4 or 5 shots against. I think in two seasons now I've seen at least 8 teams score two with their first two shots. A match against Valenciennes the other day saw me fall 2 behind with them only having a single shot off target...

The number of crosses to the back post / corners to the near post / ultra-route-1 goals is mental and just detracts from the game. I just want to play a game where I'm on top and win, or get outplayed and lose. Bordeaux just hammered me 3-0 with only 3 attempts and no CCCs to my 53% possession and 5 attemps on target. I didn't think I'd beat them, but they should be top of the league being so clinical.

I'm now in a situation where I unconsiously blame the ME for every problem. I've managed teams in past FM's and struggled all season, finishing 15th in the league with Wigan, and never thought the game was being unfair to me. Sure, I'd get beaten in games I'd deserved something out of, but that happens. In this FM, it happens all the time... I have no clue what I'm doing wrong or right, the results seem completely abstract.