Klyemann Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Given the latest "Tactics forum revolution" revealed that many players don't really understand the mechanics of the game I think SI should seriously consider making their Official Game Guide that would be included with the game. There are a lot of basic things that people don't understand, like roles and dutys, styles and philosophies... I must admint I never use half of the shouts because I simply don't understand what they do and when they might be useful. Being a non-native english speaker certailny doesn't help me, so extra explanation would be very helpful. Also new features are always confusing: what are the differences between options when seting up tutoring? What are qualities of a good Managing Director? How to use the new training system? etc. Sure, there are some people who like to explore and experiment on their own, but I'm not one of them. Since the game is so deep and compex I would really like it to be more explained, not having to search the forums for other people guesses on what something means. What are your thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdpoo Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Being a non-native english speaker certailny doesn't help I'd like to reiterate this. It took me a lot of time to understand what "show on weaker foot" means. Mind you, a Google search reveals a lot more now than it did back in the day. And think about people who usually aren't avid football watchers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 It took me a lot of time to understand what "show on weaker foot" means. Exactly!!! Took me ages to figuer this one out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 There's a lot of information available in the manual: http://www.footballmanager.com/manual/fm2013/?locale=en_GB&id=272 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I would happen to agree with this... Either a new more detailed and accurate manual online or one included with the game is needed :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikker Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 You also might want to check this site out: http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's a great idea. It's 'cruel' of SI to watch us debating without giving a clue as to some of the debates here....what attributes does make a good DoF or Head of Yth Development?? Or would that make it too easy?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 There's a lot of information available in the manual:http://www.footballmanager.com/manual/fm2013/?locale=en_GB&id=272 Yeah, this are similar descriptions like in the game, and are not really helping: Play narrow - instruct players to play more narrow... wel no shi*? Fluid philosphy - players contribute to more phases of play... phases of play, what? You have to understand that most players might not be familliar with the english football jargon, and could well use some examples of what "playing narrow" or "phases of play" mean. Just take a look at tactics forum and you'll se how much confusion there is: some people know what things do, some people think they now, some have no idea... and it all results in many conflicting adiveces which could be easily avoided if there was an official guide. You also might want to check this site out:http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/ I had a lot of trouble finding things out over the years and I still do whenever new features are introduced. And I know there are many good explanations and guides all over the web, but I'm sure many people don't go that much out of their way. Also, can you imagine buying a new TV and havig to go through noumerous forums just to figure out how to set it up? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govnar1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 There's a lot of information available in the manual:http://www.footballmanager.com/manual/fm2013/?locale=en_GB&id=272 You must be joking! I would happen to agree with this... Either a new more detailed and accurate manual online or one included with the game is needed :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikker Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Also, can you imagine buying a new TV and havig to go through noumerous forums just to figure out how to set it up? Unfortunately, yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not sure how feasible an undertaking that would be, to be honest. SI would need to give someone a hell of a lot of time to put that stuff together, and would the financial outlay of doing so be worth the end result? Especially when so many people on this forum and other FM approved sites put so much effort into making guides themselves. From what you're saying, one of the affiliate sites would give themselves a nice little boost if they addressed the terminology issues you highlight here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 You must be joking! I'm not. To me, the manual gives enough information for someone to be able to start putting tactics together and getting to grips with the game. It's not extensive, but it's a good place to start. You also have the help and tutorial modes within the game itself these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's a great idea.It's 'cruel' of SI to watch us debating without giving a clue as to some of the debates here....what attributes does make a good DoF or Head of Yth Development?? Or would that make it too easy?? I'm sure they've answered those questions on here before, but I've been unable to find the threads with the forum's search function (typically...) The manual definitely appears to be lacking in this regard as well, do the in-game help files offer any information? (I can't check, I'm stuck at work). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govnar1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm not. To me, the manual gives enough information for someone to be able to start putting tactics together and getting to grips with the game. It's not extensive, but it's a good place to start. You also have the help and tutorial modes within the game itself these days. Can you find any explanation how "Progression bar" in player report screen works in official manual? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Can you find any explain how "Progression bar" in player report screen works in official manual? Can you show me a picture of what you mean? Genuinely can't recall what feature you've mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govnar1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Can you show me a picture of what you mean? Genuinely can't recall what feature you've mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not sure how feasible an undertaking that would be, to be honest.SI would need to give someone a hell of a lot of time to put that stuff together, and would the financial outlay of doing so be worth the end result? Especially when so many people on this forum and other FM approved sites put so much effort into making guides themselves. From what you're saying, one of the affiliate sites would give themselves a nice little boost if they addressed the terminology issues you highlight here. A moderated official wiki guide would work wonders I think... Take the official manual info + any time official SI team members can put in + submitted users info and you'd very quickly get yourself a comprehensive and accurate guide... providing the info submitted is moderated and checked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hah, annoyingly the Player training section of the Manual just takes you to the Team one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted December 7, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 7, 2012 Would personally love to do a massive FM wiki, although obviously would be a rather huge undertaking. Something we are thinking about certainly, but as said would be a rather massive task - watch this space I think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshace Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Would personally love to do a massive FM wiki, although obviously would be a rather huge undertaking. Something we are thinking about certainly, but as said would be a rather massive task - watch this space I think Yeah, I can see it would be a huge task, I'm sure forum moderators and users... or at least some would gladly help out with it if necessary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think this is Welshace offering his services Neil..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govnar1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hah, annoyingly the Player training section of the Manual just takes you to the Team one I spent hours searching the net, manual, asked in Tactics & Training Discussion but I couldn't find an answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I spent hours searching the net, manual, asked in Tactics & Training Discussion but I couldn't find an answer. Nope, I have no idea either. I only ever use that screen to set a new position and check what the important attributes for each training role are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I thought it was an indication of the player improving or not, the higher up the green the better he is progressing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted December 7, 2012 Author Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yeah, I can see it would be a huge task, I'm sure forum moderators and users... or at least some would gladly help out with it if necessary I was thinking the same thing... there are a lot of volunteers helping with the database, so I'm sure there would be little trouble finding people willing to help build a wiki. All SI would need to do, in my opinion, is to validate what is true and what is not: "yup, that's true, it goes in to the guide... not that thogh, that's just a myth" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govnar1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I thought it was an indication of the player improving or not, the higher up the green the better he is progressing? It's looks exactly the same for all my players, so does that mean they all progress at identical speed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I thought it was an indication of the player improving or not, the higher up the green the better he is progressing? Does it have a tool tip? Is it mentioned in the in-game help anywhere? (not necessarily directed at you, directed to anyone that has the game open). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's looks exactly the same for all my players, so does that mean they all progress at identical speed? No but your in june, probably pre-season and none of them will be training at the moment so they will all be the same. I think anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Does it have a tool tip? Is it mentioned in the in-game help anywhere?(not necessarily directed at you, directed to anyone that has the game open). Possibly, like you i dont use the screen for anything except a quick check of strengths and weaknesses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I suggested adding coaching badges for managers in-game. Why not incorporate the learning of all of this in-game to allow managers to attain their coaching badges. We can send our coaches away to get them, without knowing what half this stuff means ourselves. I've a number of ideas for how this could work in game and think it would be a perfect learning tool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 No but your in june, probably pre-season and none of them will be training at the moment so they will all be the same.I think anyway. I'm in November but it's the same for all of my players too. Halfway like the other example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Does it change if you ask them to learn a position or PPM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
apalaxe Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yes, please a comprehensive guide or Wiki, please! need.more.info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govnar1 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Does it change if you ask them to learn a position or PPM? No, it doesn't change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Brock, get Riz in here to answer this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Neil Brock Posted December 7, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 7, 2012 What's the question? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 What does the progress bar on the individual player training screen mean? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!.m.! Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Bar is in the exact same position for my entire team despite some of them 'progressing' or declining in ability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdpoo Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've always seen the bar dead in the middle for all my players for 5 seasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 New features are tip top, but if it's not fairly obvious how/why they impact it's either ignored or causes frustration. It's probably the only thing SI/FM fall down on imho, because in absence of those that actually wrote the game it's left to guess work or trial/error and at worst come the end of it never sure how or why. The Wiki type guide might be a good shout (Hearts of Iron III cracked me that way and you can't get much more "wtf" than Paradox Games from what I've seen). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryknow Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Tactics and Frameworks(I think it's called) for an older FM, will give you enough you need to know for the tactical side. What each sliders means, what the touch line shouts mean, etc. I think a FM wiki would be a great idea. FM is a very daunting game to beginners. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_Pacino Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Should get some company like Prima Games, Piggyback, or Brady Games etc on board to do a big guide book for the next Football Manager. Never mind leaving it up to dedicated forum users and tactical gurus to give us "their" insight and educated guesses; just get it into a fully detailed official book once and for all. I'm tired of guessing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I disagree. If the game needs a full on strategy guide for the common gamer to comprehend the game is either a) being tooled in a narrow interpretive method or b) is aiming for the spreadsheet hardcore crowd. If it's b then, that's fine, it won't need a guide as the target market are the kind of people who will enjoy figuring it out on their own and a limited number of them will be on here championing the cause. That assumes SI seek to limit their user base though. If it's option a then, no amount of 'strategy' guide is going to teach a player how to utilise things, guides aren't educational tools they're there to tell you where, when and what occurs, they won't give you a deeper understanding of the game or game mechanics, unless you're writing a game mechanics guide and THOSE types of guides are NOT enjoyable to read as you need to be a person with the patience and time to read through them and apply their formulae to the game. If you are, you're most likely to be a person to whom B applies to. Anyhoo, this was called for back when 11 came out, the cries for it went away with 12 but resurfaced now with 13, I honestly just believe that the devs just took their eye off the ball and didn't get the balance right. Just nail the balance in the difficulty or whatever it is and it'll save both sides a lot of grief. As long as both sides staunchly stick to specific viewpoints (looking at certain people on here on the mods team and vice versa) then it will just cause a bit more grief and friction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmFutbolManager Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 A very good starting place for a lot of people should be here: http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiago_wakabayashi Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 A very good starting place for a lot of people should be here: http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/ i was seeing a bit of this site and he's good really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakaveliPT Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What does the progress bar on the individual player training screen mean? As far as i reckon this is how fast a player Will develop, this is determined by determination and professionalism for sure, some other hidden attributes might affect it as well. By development speed i mean if you are dealing with a player that will reach his pa at a younger age or he will be a late bloomer. On The screenshot shown that player should reach his pa at An average age, id guess 25 Fmscout tool could calculate this in fm11 not sure about 12,13 as i no longer use it Hope it helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I was thinking the same thing... there are a lot of volunteers helping with the database, so I'm sure there would be little trouble finding people willing to help build a wiki.All SI would need to do, in my opinion, is to validate what is true and what is not: "yup, that's true, it goes in to the guide... not that thogh, that's just a myth" That's the key part. Yes there's a lot of information available online, lots of different guides and stuff but the vast majority of it is guesswork. Some of it is right, some partly accurate and then there's a fair share of utter nonsense. SI have always been very reluctant to give insight into how their game works, I understand they don't want people to know about the underlying mechanics as it would spoil the illusion for some people, but they seriously should do more explaining about the less intuitive parts of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 That's the key part. Yes there's a lot of information available online, lots of different guides and stuff but the vast majority of it is guesswork. Some of it is right, some partly accurate and then there's a fair share of utter nonsense. SI have always been very reluctant to give insight into how their game works, I understand they don't want people to know about the underlying mechanics as it would spoil the illusion for some people, but they seriously should do more explaining about the less intuitive parts of the game. This for me as well. Spot on really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebl2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Advertise the position.... Offer the person free FM for life with extra beta testing to update the new features on a yearly basis, I am sure you would find a volunteer or team of volunteers to compile a guide and minimal cost to yourselves taking up little time. Then the guide is submitted to perhaps you Neil Brock or another representative for signing off for correctness.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebl2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Not everyone plays online, knows where to look or trust severything they see, a guide would solve this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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