Team not working correctly

[Premier2k]

Hi all,

So I'm finally putting a proper post on here to find out where I'm going wrong. I've started what must be my 50th new game of FM13 and I just can't seem to get it right. I started unemployed and got a job with Havant and Waterlooville.

My team lately have lost the ability to play football and we've gone from heading the table to mid-table. In fairness we had a prediction of mid-table but I know my team are able to do a lot better.

I recently read a post from someone saying that at different points in the season the AI changes it's 'opinion' or view of you depending on whether you're over-performing or under-performing. That's not to say that they adapt to your tactics but rather they line up differently against you.

I'm posting my tactics here in the hope that you guys can steer me right. I've read a load of excellent threads on these forums, threads such as Cleon's Understanding your tactic, Wez007's rage quit story and one of my personal favourites Rashidi1's Stafford trip. (I've subbed to all of these and I encourage everyone to go and read)

So here's my formation that I've been mainly using, a simple no frills 4-4-2;

Here's my tactics screen;

My team comparison;

All players have default tactical instructions except for the goalkeeper who is set to distribute to the DL. (Defender collect)

If I'm playing at home against a much weaker team then I'll use this, at first this worked really well but recently it hasn't and I've kept with the 4-4-2

So what am I doing wrong? I've tried to keep it simple and not mess with the sliders. I'm sure this can be improved more.

If there is any more information that I can give you that I've forgotten then shout and I'll chuck a screenshot up.

Thanks everyone.

Premier2k

[lam]

POACHER and TARGET MAN (attack)..... two selfish players there. You got two players intent on scoring goals for themselves. Try switching the TM to (S) and see how you get on.

Other than that, it's hard to say much else. Despite giving us lots of informaiton about the team we need to understand the nature of your losses.

[PeeKay]

So what am I doing wrong? I've tried to keep it simple...

That's a good start but it's just a matter of evolving a little to meet new expectations. You have a balanced tactic for match where you are on par with your opponent. Now create a new tactic for matches where you are favourite; a little more attacking and risky, like you 4-2-4 or your 4-4-2 with Attacking strategy and see how that goes. If you are winning your home games then create a new tactic for away games; a little more defensive and cautious maybe your 4-4-2 with counter?

A general rule is that AI teams will play more attacking at home and more defensive away but if you are stronger/weaker then it will be adaptive to get it a better chance so your tactics need meet new requirements. Playing the same tactic every game is predictable and computers are good at spotting patterns. The FM AI does not cheat, it is probably using the same tools as a FM player (but more efficiently) and uses tactics that the real life managers would use. As you said the AI does not create an anti-tactic specific against your formation.

As an FM player you just need to do the same thing to be competitive.

[Premier2k]

Good point lam, I gave you all the information but neglected to tell you what the problem actually is! doh!

Basically, I'm not sure. The main issue is that my strikers just aren't scoring. The midfield is usually ok, wins the ball and can play good passes, but the strikers either get lazy and don't run for it or they do get the ball but are out-paced by the opposition.

I like to play balls either through the middle or over the top. I know that I can use 'Play into space' to get the balls through the middle more but how do I get them to play over the top if I'm against a fast defence.

Also, sometimes I'm being pressed and my players don't have long on the ball, sometimes they dither about with it and lose it (v. frustrating). Would I need to go for a much shorter passing style? or, I've just thought, maybe up the tempo?

It's very difficult for me to explain what's wrong, it's just that the team aren't performing. Maybe just a mid-season blip? I'll pop the fixtures and results below.

[wez007]

My theory with less talented players from my painful exp is this:

Go HARD, go QUICK, go ATTACKING. My tactic as you will see from your OP post link took a great deal of time and millatant processing/implamentation to get to a place i kind of want to be (tbh im no where near hitting the sweet spot yet ). After hours and hours spent anlyising, headaches, sore eyes, neck pains and finger cramp I came up with TWO big fat theories for my team:

* If they dont move the ball forward and quickly they lose it

* If i dont press and smash into tackles I dont win the ball

If I didn’t use attacking my players would just dawdle ont the ball, pass side to side, play pointless balls and frustrate the life out of me.

If I didn’t hassle like crazy and go in hard they would just watch players ghost past them or let the OPP have acres of space.

Whatever I do now, no matter of shouts, formation or roles I always base my tactics on attacking, pressing, hard tackling and lots of tempo/pace.

This is what works for me but I do get a sense of reading a lot of threads attacking may seem to be the favored route in this ME but I could be wrong. This link gives you an idea of attacking being useful for defending ... http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/336723-How-to-defend

Now your tactic, I’m no 442 expert on FM13 as I’m using a Brazilian old school 4222 BOX but I would say you don’t have the right support roles in the corresponding quadrants. For example, you have 2x Att in Att and 2x Sup as Wingers, not exactly mixing it up.

My Target man is a legend for my team, on a support role he links the whole thing together.

The HARD tackling I mentioned comes into effect somewhere on the park. Ball won....

The QUICK ball gets played to the TM....

The TM acting in the support lines plays ball onto an ATTACKING player

Normally this results in a DM winning the ball, playing a quick ball up to the TM who will hold the ball up and play a through ball, lay it off for a forward running MC, flick it on for a ADV FWD or turn, have a look up and smash one from downtown. IMO the support role offers many more options than a attacking TM, the later to me would be more one dimensional where as support TM has more options avail to him.

Looking at your comp stats in the league you have decent team work, stamina, pace and technique. Which would almost work with my H Q A philosophy

What I really really do you think you need looking at these atts are....

Get a MC who can pass and be creative. Maybe a DLP will be a great addition to your team? You also need someone who can screen him with decent tackling as it looks like your MC’s are week in that area.

You strike force looks to be bad mate L the only thing they have going for them is aerial ability so I don’t need to tell you what to do here do i? (see where im going with this? Lol)

You have very little pace up top so no point playing too many through balls if im honest as its hair vs tortuous territory.

Could be a good idea to have your best TM play as support and playing balls off to incoming MC’s or looking to feed wingers who will be able to get crosses in to the big strike force.

Hope some this helps, i like you are on this huge thing we like to call a learning curve, enjoy it fella

[kopfan1977]

Against the bigger teams that your expected to lose to Stop your goalkeeper from distributing to your defence which in my opinion puts extra strain on your defence. I see you play with a target man so why not use him to his strengths. Have him set as Support, And get your keeper to ease the pressure on your team by kicking long to him. I use this to an effect with a narrow 4-3-3 (yes all 3 CF) middle one being target man on support with a poacher and depending on how I feel either trequartista to help create chances and link midfield or DLF.

Using this I scored 2 away from home against Barcelona in CL first knockout round with my Cardiff City side who are expected to struggle seeing as its first season in there and my team is nowhere near as talented as Barca or any of the other big teams. I did lose 4-2 though with my fullbacks being terrorised in last 10 mins by Messi when he dropped out wide. But on return leg at home I trumped them 4-1!!! My best result ever on FM13 by far. Even if it isnt my biggest win that was a 6-0 mauling of a poor everton team! Just dont ask for advice about playing Man City grrrrr

[pazmacats2]

Congrats. I'd hire you if I was Barcelona.

[Parlabane]

My experiences match Wez.

My L2 (now L1) team needs to play fast and hard. Anything too fancy and they seem to either fail or just not even try. They hold the ball until they get stripped. They pass back and forth with the keeper all game.

Sometimes I wish I could get them to slow down and pick out the good pass, but they don't seem to have the mentality to do it. It's better they move the ball quickly and hopefully create a chance than have them stand with it and give up a break the other direction when they get pressed and tackled.

Credit to the ME, I suppose. In past FMs I was able to have lower league teams playing beautiful football. Seems a little more realistic that these squads are more kick, run and grind.

[mlequi]

I agree with wez007.

I am playing Lazio and in my first season I could not help myself to stay in control/countrer/balanced tiki taka mode.

Due my team limitations, when I receive the ball, I want them to get it forward. Just get it forward, no controling the match. My players cannot do that effectively.

When my team are defending, I would like them to go after the ball and tackle hard.

This tactic has been the source of many high goal scoring match.

Now second season, my team is much more established and I play like a big team would play, controlled patient approach.

[Premier2k]

I've been experimenting a little after reading all of your comments and I've made a few changes. I've changed my CM(auto) to a BWM(S), he's big and powerful and is able to win balls in midfield. I've set my CM(d) to a DLP(d). I'm finding now that I'm playing in the centre before spreading out wide and floating the ball in for my forwards to get on to.

I swapped the TM(a) for a support role, to be honest I'm not noticing much of a difference currently but he has found his form again and is currently 18 goals in 36 games.

I've taken your advice and I'm using more of my team to tackle hard, not in a team instruction but as an OI for all midfield oppo players that have a bravery of less than 10.

[Premier2k]

I've switched full time to my 4-2-4 tactic for home and away games and I'm finding this is a much better tactic that I can easily switch between counter and control, with the occasional Attacking and Defensive change.

7 games to go and I'm currently 5th.....