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Differences iOS v Android?


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  • SI Staff
Ehm, so my Galaxy SII running Android 2.1 is less capable than my iPod Touch gen? Both run an operating system released in the same year, so I don't understand how the iTouch is able to do things that the phone can't?

Older devices/versions of Android have a very restrictive maximum heap size that drastically limits the amount of memory any one app can use.

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  • SI Staff
Ehm, so my Galaxy SII running Android 2.1 is less capable than my iPod Touch gen? Both run an operating system released in the same year, so I don't understand how the iTouch is able to do things that the phone can't?

Galaxy S2 - err Ceirdiff I've got an S2 myself, the minimum Android OS I believe has even been installed on the S2 originally was 2.3.3 and the latest revision in most countries is Android OS4.

See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S_II

(Android 2.1 is rather old now - first released in October 26, 2009 - any phones bought in the last year almost definitely run 2.3.3 or above unless they're incredibly low spec)

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(Oh, my bad, had it clocked as 2.1 for some reason, did think that there had been a few new android versions since 2.1 that the phone would have).

Eitherway, surely that makes even less sense though that an iOS device created in '09 compared to Android versions released years afterwards (2.2&2.3.3 I'm looking at you) are able to handle greater levels of complexity. Either way, is it not possible to search for the android version installed and limit one league for older phones and four leagues for newer phones?

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  • SI Staff
(Oh, my bad, had it clocked as 2.1 for some reason, did think that there had been a few new android versions since 2.1 that the phone would have).

Eitherway, surely that makes even less sense though that an iOS device created in '09 compared to Android versions released years afterwards (2.2&2.3.3 I'm looking at you) are able to handle greater levels of complexity. Either way, is it not possible to search for the android version installed and limit one league for older phones and four leagues for newer phones?

Ok basic mobile phone development stuff ...

iOS = flexible heap/memory management, lovely jubbly and makes things nice and easy for developers.

Android = originally designed to run small Java apps only, then Google kludged a C++ extension to this. Because originally it was designed only intending to run small apps the memory heap is FIXED in size regardless of the device its running upon (ie. you might have 512Mb on an android device, but each app is restricted to only 20-30mb of memory usage).

Android 4.0 changes this by allowing a LARGE_HEAP setting in an application (so you can use more than 20-30Mb of memory), but this isn't backward compatible - that is if you build using that then it can only run on OS4.0 devices, at present only 25% of Android devices are 4.0+ hence we are reluctant to exclude 75% of customers from playing the game.

Summary - hopefully in a future version of the game we'll be able to get around this sort of thing as more and more devices run 4.0, unfortunately Android OS users don't 'march forward' as quickly as those on iOS so we can't at present.

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Older devices/versions of Android have a very restrictive maximum heap size that drastically limits the amount of memory any one app can use.

So, Atari, are you confirming that FMH A 2013 doesn't run multiple leagues vs. iOS does run them? Any other features missing from Android?

Thx a lot for clarification....

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  • SI Staff
So, Atari, are you confirming that FMH A 2013 doesn't run multiple leagues vs. iOS does run them? Any other features missing from Android?

Android only runs a single nations leagues during a game - iOS allows 4 simultaneously (1 'main' league with all divisions and 3 secondary leagues with the top division only).

Outside of that there are some subtle differences between the two versions - but nothing 'missing per-se' (for instance Achievements on Android is done through a bespoke implementation whereas iOS uses 'GameCenter' etc.

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Android only runs a single nations leagues during a game - iOS allows 4 simultaneously (1 'main' league with all divisions and 3 secondary leagues with the top division only).

Outside of that there are some subtle differences between the two versions - but nothing 'missing per-se' (for instance Achievements on Android is done through a bespoke implementation whereas iOS uses 'GameCenter' etc.

Thx Marc....guess, I am going for Android this year just to use the bigger screen... iOS v. Android feels a bit like Amiga vs. ST back then. Amiga most of times was a bit more polished than Atari ST.

Heck, I might end up buying both versions just so that I can play two careers on my transcontinental flight next week....no worries about running out of batteries :D

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Hmm was meant to have posted this in here:

Looking forward to this, I haven't played a handheld version yet either so should be refreshing, one thing that is disappointing is that you can't run more than 1 league on a nexus 7, is that right???

I will only be buying 1 version either for the Iphone 4s or the Nexus 7, I also thought it would be an easy decision to make just tablet over phone, now I'm swaying to getting the Iphone version because of the multi leagues, really stuck on what to do as I thought the android version would be as good, what version should I get???

Think I will just go for the android version, its what I bought the nexus for anyway, still feeling a little down about the game even though I have never played a handheld version before but I'm sure I will be far more positive once I have it installed.

Also less than an hour to go, I'm at work till 8am so no delays please, thx :)

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Hmm was meant to have posted this in here:

Think I will just go for the android version, its what I bought the nexus for anyway, still feeling a little down about the game even though I have never played a handheld version before but I'm sure I will be far more positive once I have it installed.

Also less than an hour to go, I'm at work till 8am so no delays please, thx :)

While multiple leagues is certainly nice-to-have, I hardly use it in a career game. I am happy enough to manage from Blue Square or BSP and see how far I can get. I also remember, if you do not choose multiple leagues, the country you are running will have a somewhat larger player database...

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I also remember, if you do not choose multiple leagues, the country you are running will have a somewhat larger player database...

Really? Now that is both interesting and good news, I actually thought that if you had multiple leagues running then you would get a larger database, that happens on the PC version so I just assumed it would be the same, hopefully your right as that was actually one of the main reasons I liked multiple leagues, there also seems to be better transfer activity as well with multiple leagues but I am totally new to FMH so am doing totally the wrong thing in comparing the game to the PC version

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Really? Now that is both interesting and good news, I actually thought that if you had multiple leagues running then you would get a larger database, that happens on the PC version so I just assumed it would be the same, hopefully your right as that was actually one of the main reasons I liked multiple leagues, there also seems to be better transfer activity as well with multiple leagues but I am totally new to FMH so am doing totally the wrong thing in comparing the game to the PC version

He's right - we have to cut the number of players a little to be able to load multiple leagues.

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Pros of iOS - Multi Leagues

Pros of Android: Ability to add a change.txt in and mod the skin.

Hey Dec, I downloaded the changes.txt and the logos from the Vibe, but I can't make the logos appear. I'm using an android phone.

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  • SI Staff
Hey Dec, I downloaded the changes.txt and the logos from the Vibe, but I can't make the logos appear. I'm using an android phone.

Hi - if you could post about third party add-ons on the site they came from that would be great, you'll probably get quicker help there and we can't encourage the use of such things.

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Yeah, no problem Alari.

A quick question btw, will there be a way in a future update for the game to recognize which android version the phone has and use multiple leagues if it's appropriate?

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  • SI Staff
A quick question btw, will there be a way in a future update for the game to recognize which android version the phone has and use multiple leagues if it's appropriate?

The problem is that the system used for Android development has a 'fixed heap' (ie. usable memory space) - this is whats restricting us at present, simply put if we use the 'LARGE_HEAP' option which came in with Android4.0 then anyone on older OS versions can't run the game.

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The problem is that the system used for Android development has a 'fixed heap' (ie. usable memory space) - this is whats restricting us at present, simply put if we use the 'LARGE_HEAP' option which came in with Android4.0 then anyone on older OS versions can't run the game.

There used to be times in this universe when games sold hardware. I've bought my fair share of hardware just to be able to play a certain game or franchise. For better or worse, the advent of iOS, Android and Co. have changed a bit consumers' behavior.

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  • SI Staff
There used to be times in this universe when games sold hardware. I've bought my fair share of hardware just to be able to play a certain game or franchise. For better or worse, the advent of iOS, Android and Co. have changed a bit consumers' behavior.

Think the key difference is previously it's been hardware specifically for video gaming whereas for most people when looking at getting a new phone/tablet - how well it plays games will be one of the least important reasons. If we did up the requirements to 4.0+ - there wouldn't be too many people in a hurry to go and get a new phone. But like Marc says, we have a good eye stats-wise on the devices and OS's we are selling on, so when the time is right from a marketable point of view we can move forward (by which time there'll be something even more powerful on the market. ;))

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  • SI Staff
Is it not possible to have two versions in the appstore though..? One for 4.0+ and the other for older versions? You could simply use compiler flags to disable the multi-league code on the older versions.

From a marketing/general user confusion perspective that'd be a nightmare - ie. what do we do if someone accidentally purchases the wrong version etc.

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From a marketing/general user confusion perspective that'd be a nightmare - ie. what do we do if someone accidentally purchases the wrong version etc.

You should be able to lock each version to specific android versions, plenty of apps do this.

You won't even be able to see the wrong version in the store then.

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  • SI Staff
You should be able to lock each version to specific android versions, plenty of apps do this.

You won't even be able to see the wrong version in the store then.

In theory yes - however:

(1) I've not found the Manifest settings overly reliable in this regard (for instance we have to manually block quite a few 320x240 devices manually despite the manifest specifically indicating that those devices aren't supported) - this is especially frustrating as we can only cover so many devices ourselves and only find out about issues if someone reports them to us (meaning annoyed users potentially).

(2) Creating two separate applications doubles the QA involved in the game which requires a certain amount of sales to be feasible from a business perspective.

As I've said - one day I hope we'll be able to .... unfortunately that day isn't today :(

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Too bad. Multiple playable leagues would be the reason for me to buy it. Now I stick with FMH2012. This is realy a shame. I have waited so long for this.

Regrettably I'm in the same boat, however, regardless of 4 leagues or not in FMH14 I still intend on buying it either way, so you could just sit back I guess ;)

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It is strange though. My Galaxy S3 is much faster than my pc in 2002 and has more memory. But FMH2013 is by far not as comprehensive and profound as CM2002.

It should be much better. 4 Countries of which 3 have only 1 playable league is also not good enough for me. I would like to be able to play with teams from different levels in different countries. The current databases are also not large enough. I play with a team in the Dutch competition and because the database contains a majority of Dutch players many large foreign clubs now have mediocre Dutch players. Simply because there are not enough good foreign players.

I think it is a pity. The current phones are capable of handling these databases and the game was already there in 2002. So why can't we play it?

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It is strange though. My Galaxy S3 is much faster than my pc in 2002 and has more memory. But FMH2013 is bar far not as comprehensive and profound as CM2002. It should be much better. 4 Countries of which 3 have only 1 playable league is also not good enough for me. I would like to be able to play with teams from different levels in different countries. The current databases are also not large enough. I play with a team in the Dutch competition and because the database contains a majority of Dutch players many large foreign clubs now have mediocre Dutch players. Simply because there are not enough good foreign players.I think it is a pity. The current phones are capable of handling these databases and the game was already there in 2002. So why can't we play it?

As was said above, the majority of Android users have Android OS' that heavily restrict how much memory any single app can use, regardless of how much your device actually has, and the game has to be able to run for as many people as possible.

I understand the frustration, I too have an S3 and know full well how powerful it is - I think it has a higher spec than my two year old netbook!

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As was said above, the majority of Android users have Android OS' that heavily restrict how much memory any single app can use, regardless of how much your device actually has, and the game has to be able to run for as many people as possible.

I understand the frustration, I too have an S3 and know full well how powerful it is - I think it has a higher spec than my two year old netbook!

I am not sure, but I expect that most of the people who actually install these kind of games also have phones with Android 4.0, or higher. The people with lower versions normally only use their phones as communication devices (calling and text messaging), or simple games and not for playing these specific games.

And I also think a simple separate fix, or add-on which could make it possible to play multiple competitions for Android > 4.0 versions, could easily be made. This could for example be seperately downloaded. I have seen this before with other apps.

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I am not sure, but I expect that most of the people who actually install these kind of games also have phones with Android 4.0, or higher. The people with lower versions normally only use their phones as communication devices (calling and text messaging), or simple games and not for playing these specific games.

Not true - only 25% of our users have 4.0 or above.

And I also think a simple separate fix, or add-on which could make it possible to play multiple competitions for Android > 4.0 versions, could easily be made. This could for example be seperately downloaded. I have seen this before with other apps.

Yes it's perfectly possible to do. As I think has been explained somewhere else on the forum recently, the problem with doing it is that it effectively splits our Android version into 2, which would pretty much double the workload of us in QA as we'd have to start testing fixes across both.

Bear in mind that this year we've had PSP, iOS and Android to test, across a wide variety of devices and skins. FMH is a small team, there is only so much we can do without stretching ourselves too far that the game would suffer.

I'm sure that as more of our Android users move over to newer versions, it's something we'll look at doing.

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