Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[bigman]

why was the game patched the last 2 times? 13.1 was fine, most people had no complaints so what was the issue? if u read other fm forums like 'the dugout' they all agree the patch was fine then these last 2 ruined the game!

[Ackter]

FM can, has and will cause -or suffer from- software conflict issues. This is as much a programming error as anything else software-related when FM is running. Part of SI's job is to minimize such conflicts as well as optimalization for hardware.

Unfortunately it's a bit hard for them to do that when instead of providing information on these issues, people just have a bit of a rant and roll back instead.

[Ackter]

why was the game patched the last 2 times? 13.1 was fine, most people had no complaints so what was the issue? if u read other fm forums like 'the dugout' they all agree the patch was fine then these last 2 ruined the game!

The feedback thread for 13.1 was just as full of people making a lot of noise as this one was. People have only started claiming it was fine when this one was released. Same as when the next patch is released, some people will claim this current one was fine. It's how people have always reacted to new releases on these forums.

SI will always try and improve the game. They will never just sit still.

[Federico]

Was there actually a booking at that time when the 2nd half played??

I go to the end of the timeline on a game as soon as it starts and if I hover my mouse over the end of the bar I see a game clock come up like 93:04 but never checked if the game finishes at that min and second. I will do now.

It's a bug already reported if I remember correctly. Bookings from the last match get stuck in the timeline, that's all.

However it seems everybody is only focusing and ranting about long shots from the last update. But in my opinion it was not only that needs to be reviewed and I hope SI won't just try to fix long shots only. There was a totally lack of teamplay, loads of runs with ball not instructed, instructions not respected (like throw ins) and still bad defensive movements by DCs, useless fullbacks and generally unawareness by the players (I've seen many and many times the ball passing litteraly through the legs of a players without he even tried to do anything for intercept/collect it).

I read a lot of people were happy with 13.1.3. Probably was better but I can't say I was happy, through balls were killing the game because of inadeguate defensive movements plus other stuff already mentioned above. I agree though it was a good point for starting polishing the game, unfortunately the 13.2.1 was a step back after the previous 2 steps forward.

Edit: I totally agree on what Ackter just said above. People always rant whatever the patch. I can't understand how people now is saying previous patches were better, when actually I only read moaning posts.

[Tubey84]

The feedback thread for 13.1 was just as full of people making a lot of noise as this one was. People have only started claiming it was fine when this one was released. Same as when the next patch is released, some people will claim this current one was fine. It's how people have always reacted to new releases on these forums.

SI will always try and improve the game. They will never just sit still.

People aren't saying 13.1 was perfect; they're simply saying it was better than 13.2 and 13.2.1 as it had less "gamebreaking" issues affecting the ME.

13.1 had issues, of course it did, but the newer patches have moved the gaming experience backwards instead of forwards, and people are naturally comparing it to 13.1 as the last point of comparison available to them.

[MacZidane]

It's a bug already reported if I remember correctly. Bookings from the last match get stuck in the timeline, that's all.

Ah ok, thanks for that.

Must be that, because at half time in this game, there's only been two bookings, and it shows three yellow cards. Nothing major, was merely curious.

[MacZidane]

People aren't saying 13.1 was perfect;

In fairness, the poster that chap was responding to DID actually say it was fine.

[Ackter]

People aren't saying 13.1 was perfect; they're simply saying it was better than 13.2 and 13.2.1 as it had less "gamebreaking" issues affecting the ME.

13.1 had issues, of course it did, but the newer patches have moved the gaming experience backwards instead of forwards, and people are naturally comparing it to 13.1 as the last point of comparison available to them.

If 13.2 had not been released do you think people would still be happy with 13.1?

They weren't. They were making just as much noise as people are now.

SI need to keep striving forwards. Going backwards will get them nowhere.

[Tubey84]

In fairness, the poster that chap was responding to DID actually say it was fine.

Well, that's just patently stupid, as it wasn't. I won't deny that the odd lunatic in here just likes to moan, but 13.2 and 13.2.1 definitely have more issues than 13.1.

If 13.2 had not been released do you think people would still be happy with 13.1?

They weren't. They were making just as much noise as people are now.

SI need to keep striving forwards. Going backwards will get them nowhere.

No they wouldn't, because as I just said, 13.1 had problems.

I've seen this happen like Groundhog Day on these forums for years on end, as I'm sure you have, but I have a very different take on it. Whilst you're noting that people moan about each patch, you're the polar opposite - you defend each patch despite glaring issues. It's almost a type of reverse trolling if I'm being perfectly honest - you're right to point to wwfan's threads to get people developing logical tactics, but you're very wrong to suggest that approaching the 13.2.1 ME in such a way will resolve everyones problems, because they won't.

There's a middle ground. That's why 13.1 was preferable, because there were many issues but there was also a lot to defend about the ME.

The way I see it, if 13.2.1 was good, then there'd be no need for any further patches and there'd be no reason for this thread to exist. As it stands, 13.2.1 is far from perfect, and it has genuine match engine issues that effect a lot of users; issues that go beyond tactics.

[Ackter]

Again, no-one reads my actual posts and instead respond to what other people have said about me.

I have never once said that everything wrong can be solved by their tactical approach. What I have said is that if you're finding that each patch is giving you a massive swing in form and performance, it'll be a tactical issue and using the approach from wwfan's thread will stop that happening.

I have never once defended the patch against a real issue and have always directed people to post in the bugs forum where appropriate. What I will continue to defend the patches against is people who come here to rant non-constructively and throw abuse around.

[MacZidane]

Again, no-one reads my actual posts and instead respond to what other people have said about me.

I know the feeling, mate

[Tubey84]

Again, no-one reads my actual posts and instead respond to what other people have said about me.

I have never once said that everything wrong can be solved by their tactical approach. What I have said is that if you're finding that each patch is giving you a massive swing in form and performance, it'll be a tactical issue and using the approach from wwfan's thread will stop that happening.

I have never once defended the patch against a real issue and have always directed people to post in the bugs forum where appropriate. What I will continue to defend the patches against is people who come here to rant non-constructively and throw abuse around.

I have read your posts - you make some good points, but you get tribal far, far too often and antagonise people who have come on the forum to express genuine concerns about a product they have paid cash for. You'd be better served to delete abusive posts but in general allow people to let off steam and give the feedback the thread is asking for.

I've just said you're right to suggest to people that they should develop logical footballing tactics that will work to a certain degree on any match engine, but the problem is that you disregard very valid concerns about the ME as tactical issues far too often, which has the potential of getting people wound up (whether rightly or wrongly).

This is a ME constructive feedback thread, so people have every right to post perceived issues in here; bugs are a completely separate issue. What people are posting here is evidence of match engine trends - such as the long shot issue, through balls etc.

I'm not meaning to jump on your back over it by the way, but I'm just trying to point out the middle ground. I come at it from a neutral point of view (as someone who defends the patch when it's deserved but criticises when it's due - here's tactical advice I gave for another patch, for example - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/330328-Tactical-Development-The-Logical-Way ) so generally I feel I see the bigger picture. I'm neither a SI "fan boy" or a mindless critic.

The game will be complete by March 2014, and this thread and dozens like it will exist about FM2014 this time next year.

My personal advice is to not waste your time defending the patches in this thread and just moderate it instead - delete abusive rants etc. If you try and discuss with those who rant non-constructively and throw abuse around, you won't get anywhere, as they're only on the forum to do just that.

[EdsFM]

I'd like to start this post by saying how much I'm enjoying this FM version - it's a massive improvement on FM2012, IMO.

As is the match engine. However, it just can't do goalkeepers for whatever reason. It's just absurd some of the things I've seen that goalkeepers have done [or not done, for that matter]. Every so often, a goalkeeping mistake, is frustrating, yet understandable. However, this is happening to me regularly.

[video=youtube;NuSL4uajFM8]

[video=youtube;FqsGBjJg53E]

So, as Andujar continued to be shot down by this sniper every game, I decided to replace him with Oliver Baumann, who was a "leading Premier League goalkeeper" according to my scouts. ONE minute into his debut he pulls out this piece of magic.

[video=youtube;jXoJVfx7eS0]

Then, after ragequitting that save I started a game with Wolves, and this happened. It was actually for my side, but I'm actually amazed at how poor the keeping is. On its own it isn't overly credible in making an argument that goalkeeping is dodgy on the ME, but considering all the other videos have come within only a couple of seasons... surely something has to be done?

[video=youtube;nyDWvwXugcE]

Here's some more from my keeper, at Wolves. This time by David Ospina who had previously been immaculate.

[video=youtube;S_x5hE_VzdI]

And then there's this, which has pushed me over the edge. Despite Cisse standing right next to him, Ospina continues to edge backwards and just lets Cisse nod it in in front of him.

[video=youtube;ky9J74wkH70]

If these were isolated issues I wouldn't be worried, but they're happening to a wide variety of quality keepers on numerous occasions and it's getting to become a bit of a farce.

[WAQ]

Just a point on the 'long shots problem'.

The real life stats on percentage of long shots (posted a few pages back) would suggest the game isn't actually that far off at all.

Of course we can't track long shots as a percentage of total team shots across a season via in game stats (maybe SI can access those stats?), and would need to do it manually instead to gather the numbers and a decent sample size.

Perhaps, if you keep the default settings, but if you're a manager who decides to instruct your players to not shoot from range, then they shouldn't be shooting from range. The whole point of tactics is to be able to control your side's style of play, at the moment you can't do this in several regards.

[MacZidane]

Perhaps, if you keep the default settings, but if you're a manager who decides to instruct your players to not shoot from range, then they shouldn't be shooting from range. The whole point of tactics is to be able to control your side's style of play, at the moment you can't do this in several regards.

Like the chap who posted before, if you choose the 'work ball into the box' shout, this can help curb the amount of long shots in game. There are perhaps too many, particularly at the higher levels, but I've tried this on a couple of matches at League 1 level, and there was hardly any long shots (from my team anyway) in either game. Lost them both, mind, so it maybe wasnae the greatest idea

[seizer]

The match engine is killing the game (simple rant).

1) Poor marking lead to poor defending against crossing and long ball

What I have seen in the match is the defenders does not mark the opposition, and regularly misjudge the oncoming cross or long ball. Its probably problem on the marking because most of the time I have up both my central defender marking and closing down the same player and ignoring the other one, leaving the opponent with clear chance of scoring from through ball. (Yeah I tried all combination, press more and zonal marking, stand off more, all kind of combination).

However this only happen to the user, I rarely see any AI/computer doing any defensive mistake.

The marking has led to poor defending against crossing.

2) Closing down and defenders tackling the opposition

These two also have been ruined. I cannot see any defenders hassle the opponent (maybe the aggression of the player is too low? but it is not). It would have been good if the defenders mark the opponent tightly and maintain their defense line' and shape.

3) Too many long shot and no through ball. Problem in build up play?

This is probably the most common rant over this ME. The players are running around, and holding up the ball, the pass it to the other player for them just to long shot. It is also probably when the player sees no other way to go through the defence, they tend to shoot. It would have been better is they just keep passing around (if their long shot is set to rarely) until a chance come and pass the ball back down.

Conlusion:

Love this game, been playing it for years, love the other new features on FM2013 . I think its the the first time I feel so frustrated with the ME (and write this).

But i trust the SI team can fix this as they usually do

[jujigatame]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or make my own thread, but in the last month (game-time) in my career, I've had a 7-1 win over Napoli, a 7-2 win over Norwich, a 4-1 loss to Shakhtar, a 4-1 win over Swansea, and a 7-2 loss to Wolves, all using very similar tactical setups. I never got nutty results like this so frequently on any previous iteration of FM.

At this point I've come to accept that the game is effectively random chance. Every couple of games one or both team's defenders just seem to be absolutely worthless. You see them not bothering to challenge attackers, getting beat for rebounds even though they clearly have the shortest path to the ball, etc.

The long shots thing is also annoying, but it seems like it can be dealt with by using the "work ball into box" shout at all times.

[BiggusD]

Again, no-one reads my actual posts and instead respond to what other people have said about me.

I have never once said that everything wrong can be solved by their tactical approach. What I have said is that if you're finding that each patch is giving you a massive swing in form and performance, it'll be a tactical issue and using the approach from wwfan's thread will stop that happening.

I have never once defended the patch against a real issue and have always directed people to post in the bugs forum where appropriate. What I will continue to defend the patches against is people who come here to rant non-constructively and throw abuse around.

An ME being "fine" is not just an absence of bugs. The long shots issue is not a "bug", at least not by your own definition of the word. It is an imbalance, and that is what this feedback thread is all about.

If it was as simple and binary as 1=bug, make a thread about it in the bugs forum and 0= it's tactical, read WWfan's thread, then there would be no need for this thread. The matter of fact is that it is in no way that simple, and this thread is important because it highlights what people are struggling with and repeated reports of problems will indicate that something could be improved regardless of if the issue can be solved tactically or not.

[Lordy9]

getting crazy results, not enjoying playing the game at the minute. will start to play again once the match engine has been fixed its driving me mad.

[eric1000]

The match engine is killing the game (simple rant).

1) Poor marking lead to poor defending against crossing and long ball

What I have seen in the match is the defenders does not mark the opposition, and regularly misjudge the oncoming cross or long ball. Its probably problem on the marking because most of the time I have up both my central defender marking and closing down the same player and ignoring the other one, leaving the opponent with clear chance of scoring from through ball. (Yeah I tried all combination, press more and zonal marking, stand off more, all kind of combination).

However this only happen to the user, I rarely see any AI/computer doing any defensive mistake.

The marking has led to poor defending against crossing.

2) Closing down and defenders tackling the opposition

These two also have been ruined. I cannot see any defenders hassle the opponent (maybe the aggression of the player is too low? but it is not). It would have been good if the defenders mark the opponent tightly and maintain their defense line' and shape.

3) Too many long shot and no through ball. Problem in build up play?

This is probably the most common rant over this ME. The players are running around, and holding up the ball, the pass it to the other player for them just to long shot. It is also probably when the player sees no other way to go through the defence, they tend to shoot. It would have been better is they just keep passing around (if their long shot is set to rarely) until a chance come and pass the ball back down.

Conlusion:

Love this game, been playing it for years, love the other new features on FM2013 . I think its the the first time I feel so frustrated with the ME (and write this).

But i trust the SI team can fix this as they usually do

I'm completely sick of the defenders inability to firstly stop a cross from coming in, even when three defenders are in attendance, and secondly their inability to deal with any type of cross that does come into the box. 90% of the goals scored against me are from crosses.

[lpcinder]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or make my own thread, but in the last month (game-time) in my career, I've had a 7-1 win over Napoli, a 7-2 win over Norwich, a 4-1 loss to Shakhtar, a 4-1 win over Swansea, and a 7-2 loss to Wolves, all using very similar tactical setups. I never got nutty results like this so frequently on any previous iteration of FM.

At this point I've come to accept that the game is effectively random chance. Every couple of games one or both team's defenders just seem to be absolutely worthless. You see them not bothering to challenge attackers, getting beat for rebounds even though they clearly have the shortest path to the ball, etc.

The long shots thing is also annoying, but it seems like it can be dealt with by using the "work ball into box" shout at all times.

I have exactly the same defensive issue. I have indeed noticed that one defender, or even more than one seems to be making capital mistakes.

[Ackter]

An ME being "fine" is not just an absence of bugs. The long shots issue is not a "bug", at least not by your own definition of the word. It is an imbalance, and that is what this feedback thread is all about.

If it was as simple and binary as 1=bug, make a thread about it in the bugs forum and 0= it's tactical, read WWfan's thread, then there would be no need for this thread. The matter of fact is that it is in no way that simple, and this thread is important because it highlights what people are struggling with and repeated reports of problems will indicate that something could be improved regardless of if the issue can be solved tactically or not.

What? Where's my definition of the word bug come from? Balancing issues are still bugs.

But it is that simple. If someone posts about an actual bug, whether it be a collection of high scoring matches, or upload several videos showing long shots continually happening when better options are available, then how much harder is it to post them in a thread in the bugs forum rather than in here?

But as I've said before, if you get massive swings in form from patch to patch, regardless of the bugs that may also be affecting you, it's happening because of a tactical issue.

[jujigatame]

I have exactly the same defensive issue. I have indeed noticed that one defender, or even more than one seems to be making capital mistakes.

Yea, I just lost at Old Trafford 5-2, every single goal was from Neymar or Nani dribbling straight down the byline unfettered and either scoring from an impossible angle or making an easy pass to Rooney.

7 of my last 10 matches have now had 5 total goals or more. 4 out of the 10 have had 7 goals or more. I've had no scoreless draws at all, and for the entire season in all competitions (about 60 matches) I've only had 3 games finish 1-0.

[Sussex Hammer]

What? Where's my definition of the word bug come from? Balancing issues are still bugs.

But it is that simple. If someone posts about an actual bug, whether it be a collection of high scoring matches, or upload several videos showing long shots continually happening when better options are available, then how much harder is it to post them in a thread in the bugs forum rather than in here?

But as I've said before, if you get massive swings in form from patch to patch, regardless of the bugs that may also be affecting you, it's happening because of a tactical issue.

To be fair though quite a few tactical issues from patch to patch are potentially caused by bugs or ME imbalances and not necessarily a poor or imbalanced tactic. Stands to reason that if everyone turns down long shots or increases players through balls to counter act too many long shots or too few through balls then of course there will be a knock on effect when those imbalances are corrected in the next patch. Forgot who it was, it may have been wwfan, but one of the tactical gurus suggested a workaround in one of the patches for something, it may have been something like marking a winger tightly to stop the large amount of crosses, or something like that. Obviously when the next patch came out that will have a knock on effect.

[MacZidane]

Yea, I just lost at Old Trafford 5-2, every single goal was from Neymar or Nani dribbling straight down the byline unfettered and either scoring from an impossible angle or making an easy pass to Rooney.

7 of my last 10 matches have now had 5 total goals or more. 4 out of the 10 have had 7 goals or more. I've had no scoreless draws at all, and for the entire season in all competitions (about 60 matches) I've only had 3 games finish 1-0.

Can I have some of what you're on, please? My last few games...

[Ackter]

To be fair though quite a few tactical issues from patch to patch are potentially caused by bugs or ME imbalances and not necessarily a poor or imbalanced tactic. Stands to reason that if everyone turns down long shots or increases players through balls to counter act too many long shots or too few through balls then of course there will be a knock on effect when those imbalances are corrected in the next patch. Forgot who it was, it may have been wwfan, but one of the tactical gurus suggested a workaround in one of the patches for something, it may have been something like marking a winger tightly to stop the large amount of crosses, or something like that. Obviously when the next patch came out that will have a knock on effect.

No team will go from winning easily every match before a patch to losing easily every match afterwards unless the success of their tactic was determined by something that the patch addressed.

There have not been enough changes, or any changes large enough, to make a balanced tactic completely reverse its fortunes. The changes have been enough to make a great tactic struggle a little more in some cases, or an adequate tactic start to struggle. But the only reason for a tactic to completely 180 will be because the tactic was massively reliant on one thing, which is one definition of an unbalanced tactic.

wwfan suggested double marking players of supreme dribbling abilities, which is a realistic tactical change. The only problem is that the match engine lowered what was required to be considered a supreme dribbler which is why wwfan posted the advice. It's common sense tactical advice and will still be relevant when the skill of supreme dribblers returns just to those players who are worthy of it.

[BiggusD]

What? Where's my definition of the word bug come from? Balancing issues are still bugs.

But it is that simple. If someone posts about an actual bug, whether it be a collection of high scoring matches, or upload several videos showing long shots continually happening when better options are available, then how much harder is it to post them in a thread in the bugs forum rather than in here?

But as I've said before, if you get massive swings in form from patch to patch, regardless of the bugs that may also be affecting you, it's happening because of a tactical issue.

Iirc you've said on many occasions that a bug is a programming error that makes the game unplayable. And your definition of "unplayable" is that the game cannot be continued. Well, at least that it what is communicated, if that is not what you mean you can rectify yourself now.

It is simply incorrect that it is only tactical issues that causes the same tactic to vary in performance from patch to patch, because what is the most efficient strategy in the ME also changes from patch to patch. For instance through-balls through the middle in FM12 and crosses from the flanks in FM13. Both are "sound tactics". The fact that you can (unrealistically) change from the former to the latter mid-game in FM does not mean that the ME favouring the latter overnight should be regarded as an improvement and that since users have the tools at hand to fix the issues with their narrow tactics they should just shut up and adapt.

[Ackter]

No, I have never said that and I'd have contested it. A bug is anything that isn't working as it should. My definition of unplayable would be something that stops a user from being able to play, or something so bad that a huge number of people (and that is not what's happening in these threads, its still a very vocal minority) don't want to play it.

If your tactic just relies on one avenue to score goals, it is a weak tactic. If that avenue also happens to be something that requires balancing, you have no-one else to blame but yourself and your tactics for when a patch addresses that issue. A balanced tactic is a tactic that does not rely on one avenue, that can attack and score from many positions. In the case you describe, that is someone trying to beat the engine, not someone trying to play the game.

[fmFutbolManager]

No team will go from winning easily every match before a patch to losing easily every match afterwards unless the success of their tactic was determined by something that the patch addressed.

There have not been enough changes, or any changes large enough, to make a balanced tactic completely reverse its fortunes. The changes have been enough to make a great tactic struggle a little more in some cases, or an adequate tactic start to struggle. But the only reason for a tactic to completely 180 will be because the tactic was massively reliant on one thing, which is one definition of an unbalanced tactic.

wwfan suggested double marking players of supreme dribbling abilities, which is a realistic tactical change. The only problem is that the match engine lowered what was required to be considered a supreme dribbler which is why wwfan posted the advice. It's common sense tactical advice and will still be relevant when the skill of supreme dribblers returns just to those players who are worthy of it.

The ME update seems to have knocked my unbalanced tactic. I can no longer score beautiful goals via my midfield sliding perfectly weighted balls through the middle for my poacher to run onto. I'm now left with the option of 'balancing' up my tactic to just attack down the flanks and cross because through balls seem all but gone in this release. Unless someone can tell me how, tactically, I can start my team playing through balls again.

I don't have quick and skilful wingers. I have excellent passers, and a very quick forward. I rely on 'one thing' because it's my strength. Stoke rely on long balls up to Crouch because that's their strength, a target man up front. Not every team has the luxury of a United side that can score any way it wishes, through passing, crossing, through balls, long balls. A lot of teams play to their strengths, and this suggests you're telling us that playing to our strengths is unbalanced and we should be crossing, passing playing with wingers when we don't have the players to do so?

This is what my team were good at, I want to be able to do this again. Now they all shoot from range, don't play the ball through to my striker. My AMC as become pretty redundant. I'm confused.

[video=youtube;_rL3aGCtFB4]

[Ackter]

I'm amazed you can post that video as an example of the engine being "right", tbh

[fmFutbolManager]

I'm amazed you can post that video as an example of the engine being "right", tbh

Not as the engine being 'right', but as an example of passes that are no more. Would you say passing through the middle was 'bugged' then?

[Ackter]

Yes, it was a far too regular occurrence imo. Wasn't as bad as it used to be in FM11, though.

[fmFutbolManager]

Yes, it was a far too regular occurrence imo. Wasn't as bad as it used to be in FM11, though.

Interesting. I only found it a regular occurrence when I instructed my players to use it. Previously I've used wingers more and most of my assists came from the wings. Now I'm lacking in that department I switched to play more centrally and saw a lot more through balls. Now I have to go out and buy a couple of decent wingers to make use of the overpowered wing play.

It seems—in my humble opinion—that I have to have the players depending on where the ME is over powered. 13.1.3 it was through balls (supposedly), 13.2.1 it's quick wingers. I have an excellent 5 star AMC (he is my star player) that now seems completely redundant. Perhaps it's a tactical problem, but he is not as effective as he once was, and now when he gets the ball all he does is shoot shoot shoot, rather than stop, look for the killer pass and create chances for my poacher ahead of him.

Maybe this belongs in the tactics forum.

[derbyliam7]

only bought the game last week so havent played any of the previous ME iterations. however i am really stuggling to get into it.

the ball never stops moving. its more like an ice hockey puck than a football. doesnt slow down after bouncing off the floor. impossible for a player to chase and stop going out of play. this was however evident in the demo when i played it briefly and doesnt seem to have been addressed.

crosses are ridiculous. every goal i seem to concede is from a cross. defence just cant deal with them.

also the defence dont seem to want to tackle of chase a ball. they just stand off the attacker until they either go past them or pass to another player.

too many wayward passes either going to nobody or to the opposition. i know this happens in real life but not on this scale.

all in all my tactics just dont seem to translate into the match at all. i have spent a long time playing with the tactics and just cannot seem to find a balance.

will be going back to fm12 until hopefully these issues at least are fixed.

its a shame really because i do think its the best FM ever. everything else i have experienced in the game has been brilliant its just a dodgy ME is, for me, a gamebreaker and i dont see a way around it.

hopefully the next patch will allow me to get into it a bit more.

[jujigatame]

Finished my season with a 4-0 win, a 2-0 win, and a 4-0 loss. Then won my first pre-season friendly against Hannover 5-3. Ridiculous scads of goals going on here!!

[Talty31]

More Through balls by better decision making from top class midfielders in next patch please. Need one soon my team is over reliant and heavily based around this way of playing so can't play any more games without losing until a new patch is released. Thanks SI keep up the hard work

[Challenger]

[video=youtube;HHsEt0wfXcY]

Looks like the home-side GK was very naughty, and spread super-glue all over the post prior to the match.

[Ackter]

Ahah that's great. Could you post it in the bugs forum too, please?

[scott MUFC]

passing through the middle was fine before, now only the AI does it. yet I want to use it.

[Thomasmc135]

I've noticed that players are able to exploit the wings and easily run into the box, where they inevitably pull it back for an easy goal, too frequently. Also, it's as if the staff for this game have never actually watched a football match.

Defending? Heard of it?

Excuse the bad quality, but how did this sort of defending pass beta testing?

[video=youtube;_Ko96D5aLcM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ko96D5aLcM&list=UUJ9iIkZFZgTQ9hO-8byUbOw&index=1

[CityAndColour]

Was general passing accuracy toned down at all? Am seeing a lot of basic passes missed. Not by a lot, but quite regularly just putting it a bit too short of or a bit behind the intended target, causing quite a few counter attacks.

[Leon_fogo]

It's very annoying to always be played by the tips, has many intersections in the game, and especially the lack of marking, lack of defenders fighting, honestly is not giving to play fm, as a friend said here on the forum on the previous page is not worth the worth buying the game before the January patch, the game is ****!

[Preveza]

Far from happy from this years game.

The current match engine is broken. I know some might say I am jumping too conclusions, but I simply can't get a long term career going. In previous versions of the game (FM11 ,12etc) I would have been into my 2nd or 3rd season at least by this stage. So far, since release, I have only played half a season at the most.

Extremely poor marking, poor closing down techniques and the list goes on and on. I have uploaded various PKM'S and I sincerely hope SI can dig up some dirt and get stuck into rectifying the ME. I personally dont mind If I wait until March to have a polished version given the nature of the game. (High detail, lots of processing).

In saying that, I do think that SI should be extremely disappointed in what they have released this year. I mean, they market it as if they are releasing a completely brand new game yet its exactly like FM12 (in terms of the feel of the game)

Many 'NEW' features such as DoF, new tones in press conferences and the so called other '900' new features are hardly seen in the game. I mean, when I start my new save, these new features are 'invisible'. I dont really notice the new features apart from the main ones (which are not even major upgrades tbh).

Overall, SI need to lift their game bigtime. I have been playing FM since 2000, and I am a very disappointed user thus far. I don't care about the majority of all these little new features (which are a marketing tool imo and I'm sure many agree and understand).

Personally, all Im after in a new release, is changes to the ME (positive changes) and ofcourse minor changes need to be made no doubt, but surely most of us want a polished and refined Match Engine.

Please do not delete this post. It's merely my opinion.

[Veg1ta]

No, I have never said that and I'd have contested it. A bug is anything that isn't working as it should. My definition of unplayable would be something that stops a user from being able to play, or something so bad that a huge number of people (and that is not what's happening in these threads, its still a very vocal minority) don't want to play it.

If your tactic just relies on one avenue to score goals, it is a weak tactic. If that avenue also happens to be something that requires balancing, you have no-one else to blame but yourself and your tactics for when a patch addresses that issue. A balanced tactic is a tactic that does not rely on one avenue, that can attack and score from many positions. In the case you describe, that is someone trying to beat the engine, not someone trying to play the game.

if anything the new ME is more one dimentional than ever since nothing works apart from using wingers and getting crosses into the box, thats all you ever see, goals coming from set pieces and crosses, rarely do you see a goal coming from the middle of the park.

you and who ever else associated with si just got to accept that the current match engine is like watching paint dry, its always the same attacks and theres so many needless shots from all over pitch that when you watch key moments you can go a whole game without seeing a single chance, have u ever seen that in any other fm match engine? no you havent which suggest the current match engine isnt good enough(and dont say key moments only shows goals because it doesnt)

[nenshoua]

Heh just had pogrebnyak outjump/outposition mertesacker while being very tightly marked in a defending corner..when a lower profile team wants to score, it finds a way..set pieces or crosses... all day er'y'day..

EDIT: annnnnnnd now they take the lead 2-1 with a cross to the far post that does not get marked..now i've had losses/draws to QPR,Reading,Swansea,Derby (as Arsenal) and god knows what else..must be my tactics..playing this game for over 10 years and having completed a 2 year specialization course IRL in football/futsal studies surely means nothing...maybe i suck at translating IRL knowledge to the bars and slides that is the tactics in the game, idk..well at least i won 3-2 vs reading..barely..heh.

[fmFutbolManager]

Is there a problem with players 'looking uninterested' on this patch? I've never seen this in my previous four seasons, and now I'm seeing this for a lot of my players.

[nenshoua]

Just had gaston ramirez score a header from a free kick against me, while being tightly marked by mertesacker (again). anticipation 12,positioning 10, jumping 10, strength 12 , off the ball 14 vs marking 17, anticipation 19, composure 20, concentration 18, positioning 19, jumping 20, strength 16...i get it that it happens sometimes, but it's happening too much...if teams are behind, they go nuts and start disregarding a lot of things and score undefendable goals like this..

[Mons]

Heh just had pogrebnyak outjump/outposition mertesacker while being very tightly marked in a defending corner..when a lower profile team wants to score, it finds a way..set pieces or crosses... all day er'y'day..

EDIT: annnnnnnd now they take the lead 2-1 with a cross to the far post that does not get marked..now i've had losses/draws to QPR,Reading,Swansea,Derby (as Arsenal) and god knows what else..must be my tactics..playing this game for over 10 years and having completed a 2 year specialization course IRL in football/futsal studies surely means nothing...maybe i suck at translating IRL knowledge to the bars and slides that is the tactics in the game, idk..well at least i won 3-2 vs reading..barely..heh.

Are you expecting Mertesacker never to lose a header? Pogrebnyak's not bad in the air either, so it's not like he lost an aerial duel against Messi.

Irl Arsenal only just squeaked past QPR, lost against Swansea and were bloody lucky not to lose against Reading in the Capital One Cup, so I don't see what point you're trying to make. They were (imo of course) second-best against Southampton yesterday and it would not have been a shock, on the balance of play, if the Saints won yesterday.

Well done on your specialization course, but going on a course and transferring theory into practice are two entirely different things altogether. I've been coached by UEFA A and B licence holders irl who were, to put none too fine a point on it, entirely impractical and illogical in their football vision and transmission thereof, whereas my best coach (and the one my team had most success with irl) had only the most rudimentary coaching course but transmitted his tactical system and way of playing much more effectively than the above. I only say that not to demean your coaching proficiency, but to suggest that going on coaching courses does not automatically make one an 'expert' in football. Besides, although realism is the ultimate aim, FM is still just a game. Sliders don't exist irl after all

And no, I'm not blindly defending the game, but too many people blame the match engine when they lose. What about your team selection, player abilities and the opposition's strength? All should be taken into consideration.

[Challenger]

[video=youtube;PdKqE6brCHY]

- Hey man, do you think we outta do something about that dude that's running towards our goal?

- Don't be ridiculous.

[nenshoua]

Not saying it makes me an expert, but i should have a decent enough grasp of tactics not to struggle against QPR and Swansea..and here it's not about transferring IRL knowledge to IRL practice, it's about IRL knowledge to FM tactics, which is quite different, i am not a big fan of sliders and bars tbh..also, i just lost to swansea as arsenal 3-2..they went up 2-0, managed to equalise and then they won 3-2, and 2 out of their 3 goals were from crosses, as most goals in this game seem to be atm..what am i supposed to do, reload the game til they stop scoring so much per game from crosses ? that would ruin the game..also, sure..mertesacker can lose a header but he lost two crucial ones in 2 out of 3 games to players that were considerably inferior to him in the air...like gaston ramirez for example...idk, lower profile teams are kicking waaaaay a lot of ass atm..maybe my team is throwing away possession due to long shot bug, and they are scoring a lot due to the crosses bug..maybe..also, everytime teams get behind in this encarnation on FM, they seem to go absolutely crazy in getting the equaliser..if i D up too early, it's bad..if i don't D up, i get equalised..wth..also, my team seems to play waaaay better in champions league/cups than in the EPL..and i do better against high-profile EPL teams than against lower profile EPL teams..i mean i just kicked MU's ass 4-1 in the FA cup, then lose 3-2 to Swansea in EPL...tactics ? yeah, idk..the disparity is too large...i kick so much ass in CL/Cups, and do awful in EPL, specially against low profile teams, whether i play attacking or control-based football