Desperate Houseguy Tactic

[Pretended]

Having labeled myself an idiot in desperation, I guess it's time that I started learning what I've missed through all these years. Apparently a fine level of English is not sufficient to grasp what later FMs have brought into the series.

So, first of all, I've always liked the formation below. I'd like to build my teamplay on top of that.

1- I reckon I'll encounter lots of attacks down through the gap the WBs may leave behind. What would you propose to counter it ? As a DC would try to close down on the attacker surging inwards, assuming that I may be playing against a team with 2 strikers, would I better be expecting a backup from a DMC or a SW ?

2- How about the roles ? How would you recommend ?

That's only a start.

[Cleon]

A slightly different shape but the principles and the basics are the same in here;

Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

You might find this useful especially with ideas. It's worth reading all the replies too as there is a load of useful info in here with what people have contributed.

For me though I'd have the wingbacks in the fullback spot with wingback roles, it basically works the same in the match engine but you'll be better defensivley without losing anything offensive wise imo.

[Pretended]

Thanks much Cleon. I'm currently into reading that piece thoroughly.

Meanwhile, is there anybody left managing it with a SW on the pitch ?

[Pretended]

A slightly different shape but the principles and the basics are the same in here;

Understanding Your Tactic - The Discussion

You might find this useful especially with ideas. It's worth reading all the replies too as there is a load of useful info in here with what people have contributed.

For me though I'd have the wingbacks in the fullback spot with wingback roles, it basically works the same in the match engine but you'll be better defensivley without losing anything offensive wise imo.

By the by, is the "Deep Lying Midfielder" screenshot right in that thread of yours ? I guess it's the duplicate of your DMC's.

[Pretended]

So the journey starts like this.

First (friendly) game in, AGOVV 2 - 3 Vitesse

Being the very first match at helm, hence not being conclusive at all yet, here are the Team Stats:

And individual stats:

The first goal conceded was as a result of a corner kick. However the second one was with the help of somewhat an early cross from my left wing which was controlled by the striker with ease, two centrebacks only trailing him as he dribbled a bit right-and-inwards before shooting it into the back of the net.

The WBL is Ezequias and if you compare his distance covered against the WBR, Aksentijevic, you can see that there is a whopping 2 km. of difference between them. Deciding on the factor that both player positions and roles are identical, I guess it's down to the attributes and characteristics of the players.

In, say, 7 of 10 highlights, I watched Ezequias being involved in the attack, dribbling around, making outward runs, taking some weak shots etc. meaning he was offensively active. His defensive match stats look fine too, maybe it was one of the moments he intentionally/unintentionally failed to track his man.

We'll see.

Meanwhile, I'd like to see contributions if you could take time to, please. The settings are exactly the same as the ones mentioned in Cleon's thread. There are some basic changes though, although the positions are the same, for some players, the default "Closing Down" sliders are set higher by default. I wonder if this has something to do with patch differences.

[kazm]

Cool. I live 15km from Vitesse . They have a pretty decent youth setup and a nice talented team for the Eredivisie.

I agree about the backs. Make it easy for yourself an drop them to DR/DLs instead of DMR/DMLs imo. Btw did you sell Van Ginkel? Also: Chanturia IRL has probably the worst mentality of the whole league, that might be something to keep in mind, though I have no clue how he is in game.

One tip: FC Groningen has a pretty good DC for only 200k euro min fee release clause called Ivens. Dunno if you need any.

Your team might focus a bit more on the left because of the AP-a being MCL. Could also be your DML just has higher workrate/stamina.

GL with it, it's though, but be patient, it can only get better. (same thing with the ME lol)

[Pretended]

You know that, I love Vitesse Arnhem (do they still call themselves that or have omitted Arnhem completely ?) even more than Ajax. Would you think of grabbing a Vitesse kit and sending it to a COMPLETE STRANGER IN TURKEY sometime ? They had some Onür Kaya, Turkish AMC, a few years ago but now I see he's sold to Charleroi.

Dang. You're spot on with that MCL being an AP, hence weakening the left-side defence of the team.

How should I approach it ? Making the WBL-Support instead of Attack or changin the role of AP to a more defensively capable one (and what about the creative outlet then, if so) ?

Edit: That Ivens is 2.2 mil. € in my game and he is considered "an important first team player". Thankfully I'm having an abundancy of centrebacks in my game. Defending department took quite some time forming up since I play a BPD.

[SnUrF]

There could be lots of reasons behind the difference in the distance the WBs run during a match. PPMs could play a factor, also the AML is set to cut inside thus leaving the whole flank for the WB to run up. Another thing is how the opposition plays; do they attack more down the right flank thus creating more work for the WBL.

-SnUrF

[Pretended]

Sure, SnUrF, for now, I've swapped the roles of MCL and MRL, the right side, with Winger being supportive as well seems more defensively solid, so let's try our DLP's stopping abilities closer to the left side.

[kazm]

Can't you order one and have em ship it?

I can probably help you but it will cost (a shirt costs 80Euros, no clue what shipping would cost) around the same as when a company does it and when something goes wrong they will fix it while I can't do that.

Btw how you became a fan of Vitesse, most people only know Ajax, PSV and the most awesome club in the world Feyenoord

Ontopic: I wouldnt really bother too much about the 2km difference. That probably won't lose you matches. Also: the DMC always has 'hold up ball: yes' you might want to change that, depending on how good he is. If he doesnt have good composure, passing, decisions etc, its probably a better idea not to use that.

[Pretended]

Rouen 4 - 3 Vitesse.

Having forgotten to apply the set of shouts Cleon used in his tactic for about 20 minutes which are:

Push Higher Up

Stay On Feet

Pass To Feet

Run At Defence

Work Ball Into Box

Retain Possession

Hassle Opponents

I led the game 1-0 at first, however the game turned to a miserable 3-1 later on. I drew back to level however couldn't prevent the game to consequently grabbed by Rouen with another fine goal shot from 30 yards out right under the upright.

The first goal conceded was like a round of billiards, turning away a couple of balls into the box, one last diagonal pass to the right midfielder of the opposition, which Ezequias failed to intervene, and it was crossed over the ground to be finally finished.

The second goal came while we were "hunting". The WBR misplaced a pass close to the byline, and the counter attack sprang. Although he quickly reacted to the attack and could close the gap and sidetrack the wide midfielder who dribbled for almost half the pitch before striking it into the back of the net as soon as he arrived at the edge of the box, he did not throw himself in with a tackle, he just kept his close distance.

The third goal came as I was on the move as well. When the DLP misplaced a short pass, the right side was exposed again. This time, instead of cutting inside, the scorer of the previous goal dribbled to the common point of crossing the ball (was chased down by the DMC until that point) and did make a cross, it was not headed away by neither BPD nor WBL, so their striker headed it in.

The last of the goals was pure flair. Two hoofed away balls ended up at opposition players' feet, the last one brought it to the sword with a stunning strike. This move was started again, although cleared later on, with another "on the hunt" move as well. Before by WBR could control a ball in the second zone, he was sliding-tackled, fell down -no foul, and their attack came through. Yeah, we cleared it away however the goal followed.

By the way, having conceded 3 goals in the first half, I substituted my WBL Ezequias with Patrick Van Aanholt. Maybe they changed strategies, or Aanholt is a better option, I don't know but here are their head-to-head comparision from the match.

And below are the match stats along with the action zones SS:

It is safe to assume that my team knows nuts about placing passes and was like an out-of-form title contender against the mid-table contenders of a league -we seemed to possess the ball more, more so specifically in the final third, however they obviously were more skillful in converting chances. By the way, Rouen plays in Championnat, which is effectively the 3rd league in France.

I just promised the board winning the title. ^^

[Pretended]

@kazm

It was just a joke about the kit mate. Thanks for your goodwill though. ^^

Well, I love underdogs in every league. I'm a Real Betis fan, Sporting Gijon fan, Real Oviedo fan, Cremonese fan, Parma fan, Vitesse fan, Auxerre fan and so on. ^^ The only real contenders I adore are the Gunners -one would dispute if they are a leading team as they used to be, though.

Well, about the tactic, I just applied everything Cleon had gone with in his thread, his DMC seems to be holding up ball as a default too. I've yet to encounter any problems due to DMC giving the ball away yet. Until then, let's see if he can contribute in building up possession football through holding it up.

[Pretended]

First official match: Vitesse 0 - 0 Inter Turku FC (Europa League)

Match stats:

Even an Inter Turku can attempt at 7 shots, 3 of which manages to find the goal. And one of their strikers was sent off around 30th minute.

I'm considering this a 10-league games run anyway. I'll revert back to a "ground zero" save then and try my luck with LB-RBs instead of WBs.

[kazm]

@kazm

It was just a joke about the kit mate. Thanks for your goodwill though. ^^

Well, I love underdogs in every league. I'm a Real Betis fan, Sporting Gijon fan, Real Oviedo fan, Cremonese fan, Parma fan, Vitesse fan, Auxerre fan and so on. ^^ The only real contenders I adore are the Gunners -one would dispute if they are a leading team as they used to be, though.

Well, about the tactic, I just applied everything Cleon had gone with in his thread, his DMC seems to be holding up ball as a default too. I've yet to encounter any problems due to DMC giving the ball away yet. Until then, let's see if he can contribute in building up possession football through holding it up.

I have the same disease. I'm Feyenoord fan and like Liverpool and Leeds in England. Guess I don't like to celebrate :'( In Turkey I used to follow Galatasaray a bit when they had Hasan Sas, he was so awesome. One of my favorite players of all time probably.

I agree with the 10league games rule, all in all learning is more important than short term succes anyway imo. Keep in mind though. If at 10 games you decide to restart first check if your team is 100% used to the tactic, if its still on 70% it might just be you have a rough time because the team needs to get used to the tactic more.

Can you post a picture of your teams strengths compared to the leagues? (Vitesse-> vitesse squad-> comparison -> overall). Cleons tactic is based on Tottenhams strengths. I don't doubt 41221 can work for Vitesse but stuff like closing down kinda depends on your teams work rate, stamina etc. Using the exact same shouts might not be optimal.

[MakaveliPT]

I played quite a similar formation although defensively i used WB/D both sides, they will still support the wingers and go forward but calculating the risks better, they usually only go high on the pitch if you are close to the opponents area, i actually had a better defense playing with the WB's on that position rather than the regular 4 in the back, but then again lets not forgot there's an unusual low count of through balls, so when that gets fixed that gap will perhaps be lethal.

Also, you are playing the AP/A on the same side of your IF/A which means sometimes it might happen that your AP will occupy all the space to where your IF should be getting while cutting inside, the same may happen with your T as he'll be dropping deep, so perhaps you should switch your AP/A to your right side and watch a few FULL games and see how it interacts with your T, i reckon they might end up covering the same area and end up shooting from long range since they won't have clear passing chances.

The area between your midfield and your striker, what people call the danger area, shouldn't be too crowded imo on a 4-5-1 tactic, as that area will the key for either your T or AP to do their assists, again understand that the ME still has low through balls so this is just theory so far. You have to decide if you want to occupy that area by your AP, or your T. I reckon you might be able to succesfully play with both if you put your AP "run with ball" to rarely, so he'll pass and run into space and do 1-2's with your T and then perhaps assist your IF or play to the winger. Also if he doesn't run with the ball, since your DLP only does it often, along with your DM it should give you more ways for your T to recycle the ball which will end up with less long shots and more possession overall, i reckon.

Hope it helps. Good luck.

[Pretended]

Wow, that's great insight, MakaveliPT, thank you very much. About IF and AP being on the same side, it's been modified. I have swapped AP with DLP already starting from the second match. I don't know about Trequartista though, I've just changed his role to Poacher, seeing that he dropped back too much, if you ask me.

And, kazm, here is the comparison chart of my team against the others:

I was eventually trashed by Maritimo at home in Europa League match. The inevitable happened at last:

You would notice that 1 out of 2 tackles were missed at first sight. However that is mostly due to the offensive players being unable to pull them off.

I spend thrice the amount in final zone, yet they score thrice more than me.

I'm also intrigues with the unnerving number of shots taken. So check the shots analysis here:

Yellow ones are the saved ones and the red ones are missed completely. It's obvious that (a) my inside forward sucked at finishing, (b) my team is restricted to shots from outside the area, effectively finishing attacks that could have ended with shots from point-blank range.

Also check my "passes intercepted":

In short, I'm losing hell of a possession in the most dangerous part of the pitch, right when my team has accelerated forwards in the hope of an attack, leaving space behind.

Oh boy.. Suggestions please.

[Pretended]

Thrilling comeback as the Eredivisie kicks in: Roda 2 - 3 Vitesse

First one was a header of whom was completely forgotten of his absence despite his aerial prowess. I tight-marked him via OI after that goal and he seemed to be marked better.

Second was another screamer from distance after a ball headed away was picked by Danilo Pereira.

After the first half, following my harsh half-time team talk and a change of "pass to feet" to "pass to space", things turned around to an extent that I was bored of watching my team storming all over Roda.

Before the match, my tactical modifications with the tactic were, (a) restricting "long shots" to rarely for all offensive players, (b) ordering AP not to run with ball (rarely).

So, match stats:

4 clear cut chances against only 2. That's a problem I can't get to solve in both defensive and attacking terms.

[Pretended]

Suddenly team stepped up.

Maritimo 0-2 Vitesse

Pass Into Space works better with my team instead of Pass to Feet. With AP not dribbling around, Wilfried Bony as a Trequartista came to be performing better.

[MakaveliPT]

Wow, that's great insight, MakaveliPT, thank you very much. About IF and AP being on the same side, it's been modified. I have swapped AP with DLP already starting from the second match. I don't know about Trequartista though, I've just changed his role to Poacher, seeing that he dropped back too much, if you ask me.

Anytime fella could you please post your team you went along on those screenshots you post so i could see which players on which position took the shots? Also if you could post your heat map from a couple of matches it would be good to provide you some more help. Heat maps say a lot.

I've had the same feeling with the T dropping too deep, but you might have ended on the other extreme choosing a Poacher, i bet he barely does any passes and some games doesn't even get a shot or hardly any, i've had relative good success with a AF with the "drops deep" PPM, he's attacking but he'll help the plays a bit not dropping as deep as a Poacher.

Could you post your team settings as well? Seems that your team is lacking on 3 important things to play a more possession type of football, which is the one you are now playing, while your passing is alright, you are lacking on first touch, decisions and team work which in my opinion is quite important on players who will supply.

You seem to be having a lotta control on most matches, just not creating quality chances to execute them. If your IF is not a good finisher perhaps you could try switching it to support and the winger to attack and rely more on the corners. Also perhaps a more rigid, disciplined type of play along with a control approach instead of standard will allow you to keep possession higher on the pitch which may lead to more quality chances.