Ajax Youth Development – When The Real World Meets Football Manager

[Siven]

Pre-season is high fitness until all are fit which takes about 2 season friendlies. Then it's heavy tactics with teamwork as a focus until the tactics are all fluid and the team has blended.

Yeah, thats similar to what i do too, but would/should you also have players doing individual training, whether its roles or specific attribute training during the high fitness time, or do you think that will be too much for pre-season?

[Cleon]

That was as a fullback was it not? I thought about following your lead, but wanted to see how I could manage going the other way with him.

Aye it was

I'm interested to see his development as a DLP though, so keep me updated please as you progress . I'm struggling to keep a hold of him in all honesty, the big clubs are circling for him

[Cleon]

Yeah, thats similar to what i do too, but would/should you also have players doing individual training, whether its roles or specific attribute training during the high fitness time, or do you think that will be too much for pre-season?

I leave them on whatever they was doing. I don't see the point of changing everyone for a few weeks. In all honesty though to get match fit and tactics fluid takes me about a week now because I don't bring many players into the club etc.

[mexamoxa]

cleon mate, i want to thank you for "teaching" me to train youngsters properly and discovering the joy of watching them bloom!

i'm trying to emulate you with Ajax too and I'm having a blast, won both championships so far but no cups yet and only as far as quarter finals of the CL.

Johan Legend Cruyff decided to retire. Did you promote Carravetta? (I have him as well). I have QPR's Mark Bowen ready to sign, can't get any other decent AM's, Ayesteran is a coach at Athletic and doesnt even want to negociate! What's important for me is tactical knowledge because it's my AM that always sets OI's, working with youngsters, determination and motivation! Who filled the Legend's shoes in your Ajax?

[Cleon]

cleon mate, i want to thank you for "teaching" me to train youngsters properly and discovering the joy of watching them bloom!

i'm trying to emulate you with Ajax too and I'm having a blast, won both championships so far but no cups yet and only as far as quarter finals of the CL.

Johan Legend Cruyff decided to retire. Did you promote Carravetta? (I have him as well). I have QPR's Mark Bowen ready to sign, can't get any other decent AM's, Ayesteran is a coach at Athletic and doesnt even want to negociate! What's important for me is tactical knowledge because it's my AM that always sets OI's, working with youngsters, determination and motivation! Who filled the Legend's shoes in your Ajax?

I promoted Carravetta yeah

[Scully11]

Cleon how do you go about scouting young players do you send your scouts out to search certain ages or do you scout for certain attributes just thought id try and get a bit more insight in to your development of players

[Cleon]

Cleon how do you go about scouting young players do you send your scouts out to search certain ages or do you scout for certain attributes just thought id try and get a bit more insight in to your development of players

I use both. But what I tend to do as a rule is scout everyone under the age of 17 when I first start a game. Then at the end of the season I then scout everyone under the age of 16 and just do this every single season as it identifies all the newgens and so on.

[themadsheep2001]

Pee off Mr

I have a link to how Man Utd/Arsenal etc all train IRL if you wanted to take those paths though if interested?

Brilliant thread, took me about 3 hours to take it all in, feel i have been missing out in training!!

I'd be interested in that Man Utd/Arsenal link if you still have it?

Cheers

[Cleon]

I know I said I'd do these in a big update but I really need to start posting a few of them because I'm running out of time and getting distracted. So I'll be posting a few from now until the weekend to get them out of the way;

Lucas Andersen

This is him at the start of the game;

I decided that I would work on his;

• Agility
  
• Dribbling
  
• First Touch
  
• Technique
  

I focused on these with an heavy individual focus for 2 months at a time. Then the rest of the time I spent time on his composure.

End of Season One

As you can see he played a lot of games for me and did well. 24 of the 29 games that he has played have all been from the centre of midfield. That is the position that he will play but at times due to injuries/suspension/tiredness he will play up top or on the wings as well. His versatility is a good thing and gives me a different kind of option should I need it.

He’s improved on all the things I thought he would and was working on. I’m pleased with how he is progressing.

End of Season Two

For season two I decided he needed a little bit more strength so he doesn’t get knocked off the ball as easy which can cause problems if this happens especially as he is a central midfielder. It can get quite physical sometimes. I know it’s never going to be great because he’s not the type of player but still a few more points in here wasn’t a bad thing.

I also worked on;

• Off the ball
  
• Passing
  
• Technique
  
• Composure
  

I focused on strength for 3 months and then on the above attributes for a period of 2 months each.

He played quite a few games this season and the exposure to first team football is definitely helping him in his development. Again I’m happy with how the training is going and how he is shaping up.

End of Season Three

I decided to work on stamina training for majority of this season because I found he was tiring a lot more now. His stamina is low for the role he is doing so I need to work on this a bit more or rotate him more if I don’t raise it.

You’ll notice though that some attributes have started to drop compared to the previous screenshot. This suggest to me that he’s at full potential morealess and the extra points I’ve put in stamina wasn’t available so they’ve been took from elsewhere. This is something I’ll monitor and see if I can confirm this is the case but it seriously looks like this is the issue.

End of Season Four

My suspicions above seem to have been confirmed. Although he did have a few injuries this season which made him miss around 4 months of the season. He still played quite a few games but nowhere near the amount he should have played.

If there is no more room for improvements then this is a real issue because he simply isn’t good enough. Due to the injuries I’ll give him one more season to see if he improves but I’m 99% sure he won’t. Which would mean I might look to sell him on.

[Cleon]

Toby Alderweireld

This player wasn’t that far off his full potential when I took over at Ajax so there wasn’t much room to improve him drastically. He’s a very good player from the off and would get in most sides.

All I did in terms of training was put him on a ball playing defender heavy schedule and that was it.

You can tell exactly when he hit full potential though because when he improves in an attribute you can see some others drop. I’ll not give you the exact time though I’ll let you work that out for yourself, it shouldn’t be too hard to find from the screenshots below

End of Season One

End of Season Two

End of Season Three

End of Season Four

[RTHerringbone]

Quickies - do you always ignore the suggestions of your backroom staff when they propose attributes to train?

My feeling is that you know the roles you want players to play, and probably use the "Highlight Attributes For Role" tool to help determine what attribute(s) to train before rolling into your 2/3 month training cycles?

With Alderweireld, what made you choose to focus on role training rather than attributes? Was it primarily because his CA was close to his PA from the start?

[Cleon]

Quickies - do you always ignore the suggestions of your backroom staff when they propose attributes to train?

My feeling is that you know the roles you want players to play, and probably use the "Highlight Attributes For Role" tool to help determine what attribute(s) to train before rolling into your 2/3 month training cycles?

With Alderweireld, what made you choose to focus on role training rather than attributes? Was it primarily because his CA was close to his PA from the start?

I always ignore the backroom staff yeah because they don't understand how I want to play. They come out with stupid suggestions like work on heading for my winger and stuff like that

I kind of do use the highlight attribute option but then I also have in mind the way I play. Then I try and base my training around those because I might need certain attributes to play the way I want that the pre-set roles don't highlight. I like to win the ball back up high up the pitch, so I like my AP's etc to have decent tackling to be able to do this and so on.

As for Alder, he is morealess capped when I took over the club so it seemed a waste to try and re-shape him or work on individual attributes. I tend to change to roles once someone hits 22-24 anyways depending on how the training and development as gone as a whole.

[tomtuck01]

I've managed to improve Alderweireld a bit through attribute training. Will post when I'm home.

[Cleon]

I've managed to improve Alderweireld a bit through attribute training. Will post when I'm home.

Awesome cheers

[tomtuck01]

Awesome cheers

Don't get too excited, it's nothing amazing.

[Cleon]

Don't get too excited, it's nothing amazing.

Any approach that differs from mine is good, it shows there are many different ways to play. So any examples you or anyone else wanna throw up is appreciated regardless of how good/bad they turn out

[tomtuck01]

Any approach that differs from mine is good, it shows there are many different ways to play. So any examples you or anyone else wanna throw up is appreciated regardless of how good/bad they turn out

Well I would post a screenshot be has decreased alot during his summer holiday/preseason. Please tell me this is a usual kind of thing and I haven't fudged him up?

[Cleon]

Well I would post a screenshot be has decreased alot during his summer holiday/preseason. Please tell me this is a usual kind of thing and I haven't fudged him up?

It's natural for all players to decrease when they are away. Once pre-season starts again you should notice they are back to normal before season starts if you prepare right, which you will do

[tomtuck01]

It's natural for all players to decrease when they are away. Once pre-season starts again you should notice they are back to normal before season starts if you prepare right, which you will do

Ok thanks Cle.

Was only asking as I've never really messed around with/paid so much attention to training before. I've usually been a kind of manager who just lets layers develop on their own. If it happens, it happens. If not, then so be it. This is the first time I've ever actually triend to influence things so heavily, hence wasn't sure what happened over the summer, etc.

[Shake Appeal]

Pre-season is high fitness until all are fit which takes about 2 season friendlies. Then it's heavy tactics with teamwork as a focus until the tactics are all fluid and the team has blended.

But setting your team's General Training to Tactics doesn't improve their understanding of your tactics; it just trains their tactical attributes. If you want to hammer home your chosen tactics and blend the squad, you should set General Training to Team Cohesion while increasing Match Training and setting that to 'Tactics Only'.

[Cleon]

But setting your team's General Training to Tactics doesn't improve their understanding of your tactics; it just trains their tactical attributes. If you want to hammer home your chosen tactics and blend the squad, you should set General Training to Team Cohesion while increasing Match Training and setting that to 'Tactics Only'.

I got them the wrong way around as I wasn't on the game at the time.

[Cleon]

Ok thanks Cle.

Was only asking as I've never really messed around with/paid so much attention to training before. I've usually been a kind of manager who just lets layers develop on their own. If it happens, it happens. If not, then so be it. This is the first time I've ever actually triend to influence things so heavily, hence wasn't sure what happened over the summer, etc.

You know what I complained about earlier? You see what I mean now....

Np Tom, if you need to know anything just let me know

[tomtuck01]

You know what I complained about earlier? You see what I mean now....

Np Tom, if you need to know anything just let me know

Haha I certainly do!

And thanks Cle, appreciated as always.

[tomtuck01]

As promised earlier, a screenshot of Toby Alderweireld;

Nothing like the improvements Cleon has made, but with training individual attributes, (Heading, Marking, and Tackling for three months at a time), rather than a specific role, he has improved a little. And he was my best performer last season, with an average rating of 7.69 from 44 appearances.

Hopefully I can continue to improve him.

[ramie]

Might have already been asked but do you ever change general training?

[Cleon]

As promised earlier, a screenshot of Toby Alderweireld;

Nothing like the improvements Cleon has made, but with training individual attributes, (Heading, Marking, and Tackling for three months at a time), rather than a specific role, he has improved a little. And he was my best performer last season, with an average rating of 7.69 from 44 appearances.

Hopefully I can continue to improve him.

That's some good improvements for the important areas too. You've managed to get his strength up too, nice work

[tomtuck01]

That's some good improvements for the important areas too. You've managed to get his strength up too, nice work

Thanks. Like I said, hopefully he can keep up the improvements.

Now here is Christian Eriksen;

He has made great improvements recently and has put in three superb performances at the art of my second season. Throughout the first season I trainied him in the following areas for three/two months at a time;

Stamina

Strength

Passing

Technique

At the start of this eason I asked him to concerntrate on the tactical role of Deep Lying Playmaker, and as you can see though he has improved nicely. Unfortunnately he suffered a serious injury in my last game and is out for sometime. His development will be massively hit and I am devasted.

[Cleon]

Thanks. Like I said, hopefully he can keep up the improvements.

Now here is Christian Eriksen;

He has made great improvements recently and has put in three superb performances at the art of my second season. Throughout the first season I trainied him in the following areas for three/two months at a time;

Stamina

Strength

Passing

Technique

At the start of this eason I asked him to concerntrate on the tactical role of Deep Lying Playmaker, and as you can see though he has improved nicely. Unfortunnately he suffered a serious injury in my last game and is out for sometime. His development will be massively hit and I am devasted.

You're lucky he's still 21 and good enough to regain full fitness. I also lost him for 5 months but that was in my 3rd season so he was developed already almost. He took a little hit on his mentals but 3 months of playing again and he was back to where he was. Hopefully you'll do the same on yours. I found nurturing him back to fitness via 45 minute sessions for the reserves for a few weeks did wonders for him.

[Scully11]

I use both. But what I tend to do as a rule is scout everyone under the age of 17 when I first start a game. Then at the end of the season I then scout everyone under the age of 16 and just do this every single season as it identifies all the newgens and so on.

Cheers Cleon thats the kind of thing ive been doing but ive only really started with this ajax save but in season 3. I am gonna start a new game when the new squad updates come out with my beloved Newcastle now that we have signed mbiwa i have a good solid centre back for a good 6-8 years and some canny youngsters like adam campbell and remi street and may even try and get something out of sammi ameobi. I aim to not buy anyone in unless they are under a certain age kinda of how you are doing and use mainly my youth intakes. Do you think newcastle would be a good place to start this kind of save

[Gee_Simpson]

I use both. But what I tend to do as a rule is scout everyone under the age of 17 when I first start a game. Then at the end of the season I then scout everyone under the age of 16 and just do this every single season as it identifies all the newgens and so on.

Just to clarify, you scout every player under 16 from end of 1st season onwards and don't revert back to 17 at start of each season yeah?

[themadsheep2001]

]The types of newgens you get is influenced by head of development and the rest of the back room staff. Have you got like-minded staff?[/b]

Well I'm still in a transitional period (or atleast I was until last season) so it was slightly easier for me as it allowed me to sell quite a few of the first team when a big offer came in for them as I had plenty of cover coming through in the ranks. Even though I don't need the money I always think if a big offer comes in I'll sell a player because I've always got 2 or 3 others who can fill the role and will develop with first team exposure.

Suspected the Head of Youth had some input, but didnt realise that about the rest of the backroom staff. Learn something new every day!

I have a question. For those players that you think are not going to cut it, do you still put the same effort into them with the aim of selling them as a profit? For example, at Manchester United, even if a player isnt "United quality" they are often still developed and moved on for a decent sum.

[Rashidi]

Just to clarify, you scout every player under 16 from end of 1st season onwards and don't revert back to 17 at start of each season yeah?

You can set your scouts to automatically search, you do this by setting up your filters, and I would venture to say that Cleons filters are set to 15-17 and if a 17 year old pops up who has 5 stars he would still try and pick him up if its a good steal. My filters are set to 15-17 since I started being able to scout overseas. This season alone I have snapped up 3 wonderkids 16, 15 and 17

[mikcheck]

So Cleon, provided that a player has a PA higher than his CA, we "decide" how will he develop depending on the training?

And is that also the case for the older FM versions?

Thank you

[Cleon]

Just to clarify, you scout every player under 16 from end of 1st season onwards and don't revert back to 17 at start of each season yeah?

You can set your scouts to automatically search, you do this by setting up your filters, and I would venture to say that Cleons filters are set to 15-17 and if a 17 year old pops up who has 5 stars he would still try and pick him up if its a good steal. My filters are set to 15-17 since I started being able to scout overseas. This season alone I have snapped up 3 wonderkids 16, 15 and 17

That is correct

I do this because I need to train them as early as possible to mould them into the player I need.

[Cleon]

Suspected the Head of Youth had some input, but didnt realise that about the rest of the backroom staff. Learn something new every day!

I have a question. For those players that you think are not going to cut it, do you still put the same effort into them with the aim of selling them as a profit? For example, at Manchester United, even if a player isnt "United quality" they are often still developed and moved on for a decent sum.

I do exactly the same yeah. I've actually got one player who I'm training up now just with the intention of selling him around season 5 because he isn't the type of player I use and lacks a few attributes that I need. But he's still a good player just not good enough for me.

[Cleon]

So Cleon, provided that a player has a PA higher than his CA, we "decide" how will he develop depending on the training?

And is that also the case for the older FM versions?

Thank you

I'm not sure what you mean?

Training is about making him into the player you need him to be.

[mikcheck]

well i always thought that a fully developed player would always look exactly like fm scout but i'm glad i was wrong

[Cleon]

well i always thought that a fully developed player would always look exactly like fm scout but i'm glad i was wrong

Ah now I understand. No because Genie doesn't know how you are training a player, how you've tutored him and changed personality etc. It just guesses and isn't accurate at all.

[mikcheck]

Thank you! I'm happy that things work that way

[Cleon]

Branco van den Boomen

End of First Season

Technique, Passing and Stamina were trained in the first half of the season. Then I put the focus on agility. I know his agility is never going to get high but 5 is far too low. In fact I’d go as far as saying because it really is this low as the seasons go on it will hold me back from making him a starter. So my aim with him is to develop him and sell him for a big fee if possible.

Why is agility so important? Well for me it’s simple, I need a player to be able to turn and move his feet quick or change direction fast and efficiently if needs be. If he has poor agility he cannot do this and considering he will be playing in the centre of midfield it’s a big issue and will cause me issues in the long run. Turning fast to make a tackle or start an attack is one of the main things about how I play, so the fact he can’t do this means I don’t see a long term future for him.

End of Second Season

• Strength
  
• Pace
  
• First Touch
  
• Technique
  

These were the main focus for attributes for the second season. He’s playing a fair amount of games and his ratings are good but whenever I watch him play he feels ever so static and there is no fluidity in his play at all it seems.

End of Third Season

• Stamina
  
• Passing
  
• Composure
  

These were the focus for this season. He still played a few games as well.

End of Fourth Season

He got a lot of games this season because I got injuries plus the fact I’m hoping to sell him in the close season. So by playing him a little bit more it should have raised his value a little, especially seeing as I won the Champions League.

[Cleon]

Kenny Tete

You can already see the visible sides of tutoring here with an increase in his determination attribute by 4 points already in a short space of time. Sadly though they've not had much impact on his hidden attributes just yet because he is still balanced. But that's fine I know its going to take time and patience as I can't expect everything to work from the off and change a player in a season. It's the long term goal that matter and the bigger picture. I can have him tutored quite a few more times so no need to worry

For his training I decided he should focus on the these attributes in a 2 month cycle;

• Quickness
  
• Stamina
  
• Positioning
  
• Tackling
  
• Marking
  

When the new season starts I'll also add crossing to that but I ran out of months currently to add this into the mix. The low stamina was a real issue though especially for the role he would be doing of a wing-back. He is expected to get forward so needs good stamina to stop him getting tired after a couple of runs.

End of Season Two

I just carried on developing him like I did in season one but with the added focus on crossing. I feel he is developing well and with the exposure to first team football, should develop even better over the coming seasons.

End of Season Three

This should have been a massive season for him but he got another bad injury and was out for 5 months which on top of the 3 months he lost the season before has really pushed his development back. Hopefully he is still young enough and got enough potential to make a full recovery.

End of Season Four

At the end of this season it looks like he’s managed to put the injuries behind him and had a very solid season. He’s also developed quite a bit too. I didn’t change anything and just carried on training him the ways I highlighted earlier in the thread.

His form was also noted by Holland who decided to call him up for international duty. So I’m looking forward to season 5 now and seeing how he can push on. It’ll be a really big season for him next season as I’ll be making him my first team right back.

[tomtuck01]

Kenny Tete.

Gave him a few games in season one and he coped really well. Already won under 21 caps.

[Cleon]

Kenny Tete.

Gave him a few games in season one and he coped really well. Already won under 21 caps.

Aye he's a solid player. He's starting to attract a lot of interest though from Chelsea again ffs. They seem to think I'm a feeder club for them

[jonnysnipe]

Just wondering about scounting assignments, I do similar to you by looking at 16 year olds and below, but should I just send say like 3 scouts to search a certain age bracket round the world? Or should I target specific countries with my scouts! Thanks in advance for the reply!

[Cleon]

Just wondering about scounting assignments, I do similar to you by looking at 16 year olds and below, but should I just send say like 3 scouts to search a certain age bracket round the world? Or should I target specific countries with my scouts! Thanks in advance for the reply!

There is no right or wrong answer, just depends on which you prefer. For example I don't bother scouting the places that require the player to be 18 before he can move, so I don't search places like Brazil because that doesn't fit with what I'm doin in this save.

[mexamoxa]

There is no right or wrong answer, just depends on which you prefer. For example I don't bother scouting the places that require the player to be 18 before he can move, so I don't search places like Brazil because that doesn't fit with what I'm doin in this save.

i kind of think you're missing out on a lot of talent, i have 3 impeding transfers from 1 brazilian and 2 argentinians who are massively talented and at 18 there is still a lot of time to develop them!

[Cleon]

i kind of think you're missing out on a lot of talent, i have 3 impeding transfers from 1 brazilian and 2 argentinians who are massively talented and at 18 there is still a lot of time to develop them!

It doesn't fit in with the whole point of the thread and the Ajax philosophy though. I'm not missing out that bad though

[tomtuck01]

Aye he's a solid player. He's starting to attract a lot of interest though from Chelsea again ffs. They seem to think I'm a feeder club for them

Haha oh dear. Apart from Denswil, who have they nabbed off you?

[nugget71]

Hi, I appreciate this has been touched on earlier in thread but call me thick, I didnt properly understand.

I'm managing Spurs in season 2, had a god awful youth intake in the 1st season & gave my head of youth development the chop.

I now have Dave Parnaby as HYD set to recruit youth players to my team, he has 19 in spoting current & potential ability.

As you'll know Spurs have top training facilities, top youth facilities, grade 1 youth set up, but still it only shows I have "above average" youth recruitment.

I believe it was suggested somewhere that this might have something to do with not having like minded backroom staff. I'm just not really sure what I should be looking for to improve this.

Thank you by the way, this is an amazing thread & I've learnt more about football tactics from you in these forums than i have from watching & playing football for 30 odd years

[Cleon]

Haha oh dear. Apart from Denswil, who have they nabbed off you?

No-one else but they keep trying for Andersen, Eriksen, Robbins and van der Rhijn. Majority of my players are wanted but Chelsea always seem to be the ones who push the trigger first with a bid