It's not easy is it!?

[ptl93]

I don't really understand what i'm doing wrong, I just can't seem to get a win on FM13, played manager games for years, missed out 12 and came back to 13. I had set the training to very hard so my players got familiar with tactics, tried a whole load of different things, mind games, private chats, different formations, different players etc. Can't win! Probably gunna get sacked soon, i'm Sunderland. Anyone else finding this game more difficult than previous years?

[AjaxNo1]

Its hard but hang in there, Im in my 4th season and on my first good run and venture into the top half, if you keep trying you will get a tactic that works

[ptl93]

Hope so mate it's not looking good at the moment though ahah who are you managing?

[AjaxNo1]

Borussia Monchengladbach, Im on about tactic 7 and its working for now, still some minor tweaking to be done but its different to all the other tactics Ive used

[Siven]

Come back when the next patch hits. Seriously.

The current Match Engine is terrible with its increased long shots, no through balls and super dribblers.

Sure you can work around them, but you shouldnt need to really and they do affect formations massively.

[AjaxNo1]

Hey dont dampen my mood Im loving my new tactic that I thought up last night and gone on a 13 match unbeaten run with

[ptl93]

Sacked at January. Nothing I tried to implement seemed to work!

[milamber]

My last FM was 2011. It was a little on the easy side but I played a 24 season game and was totally addicted. With 2013 I'm into my 2nd season with Aston Villa and placed 7th with a fair bit of cheating (played okay against good clubs but lost a lot of games to bottom dwellers). Even so I spent way too much time tweaking tactics and I've sort of lost interest now. So I started a new game with Man United to make things easier so I can just have fun and not get so frustrated but I'm doing even worse. Rooney and Van Persie can't score goals no matter what my tactics. Might have to use FMRTE if its up-to-date for a cash injection to buy better players to compensate. More realistic -- maybe. Less fun and addictive -- yes. I need an easy mode that emulates previous versions of the game (tactics not as important as the players)!

[r0x0r]

Come back when the next patch hits. Seriously.

The current Match Engine is terrible with its increased long shots, no through balls and super dribblers.

Sure you can work around them, but you shouldnt need to really and they do affect formations massively.

My tactics have worked just fine. I made my main one during the original OP crossing / wingbacks to counter it day 1 patch days, then adjusted it slightly as time went on. The last 2 match engine patches havent seen any changes to my tactics. It still works just fine.

edit: Is your team familiar with it? That's very important this time around.

And is it a sensible tactic? Are there always options? Do you have split mentalities? Does your tactic work on paper? If it does it should still be fine.

[LiamOT]

Come back when the next patch hits. Seriously.

The current Match Engine is terrible with its increased long shots, no through balls and super dribblers.

Sure you can work around them, but you shouldnt need to really and they do affect formations massively.

Words of Wisdom.

Honestly, there's some guy on my save with Stats of 16 Acc, 15 Pace and 13 Dribbling... He plays like Messi. Dribbles through defences like it's nothing.

[efreet]

I don't really understand what i'm doing wrong, I just can't seem to get a win on FM13, played manager games for years, missed out 12 and came back to 13. I had set the training to very hard so my players got familiar with tactics, tried a whole load of different things, mind games, private chats, different formations, different players etc. Can't win! Probably gunna get sacked soon, i'm Sunderland. Anyone else finding this game more difficult than previous years?

FM 13 is ****! I can beat Barca 4-1 on camp now, but can't overcome Siena(20) and Genoa(19) with 16 restarts!Juventus 1st season that is.

[Kenco]

I'm finding FM13 marginally easier than previous versions but perhaps it's because I've taken a little time to learn about the tactical side of the game and understand things better.

I'd recommend a foray into the Tactics forum and read some threads in there, in particular wwfan's twelve steps thread, very useful read.

[fermcr1]

Game is a joke... with one of the worst AI's I've seen in a game. If I play with a above average team with good players and play against a top team, I'll likely loose the match (just like real life top teams are favorites and will likely win their games), but i really don't expect my players to behave like complete morons, that don't have a clue what a ball is. The number of mistakes my players make during those games, is appalling. Game engine is terrible.

One other thing... Only one team in the world plays like Barcelona, and that's Barcelona !!!

Sometimes i play against average teams and they have about 30 or 40 passes between their players and score a goal without loosing the ball to the other team (this happens quite often in the game). Is this realistic ? Are my players taking a nap in the game ? I'll say it again: Only one team in the world plays like Barcelona, and that's Barcelona !!!

In all honesty, I'm really pissed about the money i wasted buying the game... it was money thrown away!

[ptl93]

I'll read some more on the tactics side of things, although I still think mine should have been working. They were very familiar as i'd set the training intensity to very hard to start with.

I was going for 41311 against bigger teams, and 433 against teams I should be more comfortable against. Both in theory should do fine?

[Kenco]

I'll read some more on the tactics side of things, although I still think mine should have been working. They were very familiar as i'd set the training intensity to very hard to start with.

I was going for 41311 against bigger teams, and 433 against teams I should be more comfortable against. Both in theory should do fine?

Why do you think yours should be working?

I can't comment how a formation will work as it's just one slice of the pizza.

I definitely recommend reading wwfan's twelve step guide.

[Kenco]

Game is a joke... with one of the worst AI's I've seen in a game. If I play with a above average team with good players and play against a top team, I'll likely loose the match (just like real life top teams are favorites and will likely win their games), but i really don't expect my players to behave like complete morons, that don't have a clue what a ball is. The number of mistakes my players make during those games, is appalling. Game engine is terrible.

One other thing... Only one team in the world plays like Barcelona, and that's Barcelona !!!

Sometimes i play against average teams and they have about 30 or 40 passes between their players and score a goal without loosing the ball to the other team (this happens quite often in the game). Is this realistic ? Are my players taking a nap in the game ? I'll say it again: Only one team in the world plays like Barcelona, and that's Barcelona !!!

In all honesty, I'm really pissed about the money i wasted buying the game... it was money thrown away!

You can't just throw 11 good players on the pitch and expect them to win every game, football doesn't work that way. The manager and his tactics are vital to any team's success.

If teams are passing it around you, perhaps it's down to your tactics? Your players could be standing off, could be a bad formation so your players are outnumbered, etc.

[pricey687]

the game does seem harder than other versions,I think there should be difficulty levels in next version.

[ptl93]

So although I was recommended to wait for new patch, I started a new season earlier on and I've been playing it all day. Things are going a lot better this time around, although it can be frustrating as the tactics don't seem to do what you say, i'm enjoying it more, currently 10th.

January now, and as things stand...

Arsenal 1st 18 games 45 points

ManC 2nd 21 games 45 points

Spurs 3rd 20 games 38 points

Man U 4th 20 games 38 points

..

Chelsea 7th 19 games 30 pints

Bit strange..

[efreet]

It's ********!I have a harder time defeating Pro Vercelli than Real Madrid!Si should address this nonsense.

[Turneep]

I don't really understand what i'm doing wrong, I just can't seem to get a win on FM13, played manager games for years, missed out 12 and came back to 13. I had set the training to very hard so my players got familiar with tactics, tried a whole load of different things, mind games, private chats, different formations, different players etc. Can't win! Probably gunna get sacked soon, i'm Sunderland. Anyone else finding this game more difficult than previous years?

Im in my 7th season of game time and only in my 6th did things start going well for me. I started jobless and got a job in Argentina where my team finished 5 from the bottom. I stayed another year and my 2nd year was no better and no worse. Then I applied for Gimnastic in Spain. I got them promoted way sooner than I wanted to and ended up in La Liga too soon! Spent 3 years fighting relegation trying to sign young players with potential. Then in my 4th year coming up to Christmas we were 18th in the League but progessing to Final of Spanish Cup. All of a sudden come January everything just clicked into play, I suddenly understood my teams weaknesses and strengths and my players capabilities. Won the Spanish Cup and finished 7th in the league. So now I start my 7th season with Gimnastic in the Euro Cup and I am quite hopeful this year. I wont win the league but with a bit of luck I can win Spanish and Euro cups.

[Kenco]

It's ********!I have a harder time defeating Pro Vercelli than Real Madrid!Si should address this nonsense.

Perhaps you have a good tactic for soaking up pressure of big teams and hitting them on the break but use this same tactic for weak teams which won't work as they will park the bus so you need to try something different.

It's not the game's fault if you don't understand tactics.

[stockportillidie]

so when will the new patch be available then?

[Herbert Fandel]

so when will the new patch be available then?

When it is finished, and not a moment sooner.

[hypertoon]

or it might be the fact that you managed Sunderland...... ...and thats not an arsey comment.... just a fact that they may be really difficult to start with in this version of the game.... Why don't you try a save with someone really good first... get your confidence up with tactics and finding your way around the new game with what works and doesnt then try again with them...

In the end of the day Sunderland at best were predicted to finish mid table.... ...what did you tell the board your promises were at the start.? ...

If you said a title challange then finished mid table then giving yourself a hard task to hit initially..

[ptl93]

or it might be the fact that you managed Sunderland...... ...and thats not an arsey comment.... just a fact that they may be really difficult to start with in this version of the game.... Why don't you try a save with someone really good first... get your confidence up with tactics and finding your way around the new game with what works and doesnt then try again with them...

In the end of the day Sunderland at best were predicted to finish mid table.... ...what did you tell the board your promises were at the start.? ...

If you said a title challange then finished mid table then giving yourself a hard task to hit initially..

I agree I probably should have started with a better team to get used to the game..then again, a lot of people have said they have struggled even with top teams. I'm doing okay in this new save so i'll keep this going for now

In both saves I set the target as just avoid relegation whch is what the board expected, but I only got 1.5 mill to spend, so it maybe was a bad choice to start with

[isignedupfornorealreason]

It's really not that hard. Just slap a 4-4-2 and watch the game.

[efreet]

Perhaps you have a good tactic for soaking up pressure of big teams and hitting them on the break but use this same tactic for weak teams which won't work as they will park the bus so you need to try something different.

It's not the game's fault if you don't understand tactics.

I've made numerous restarts(over 30 combined), with different tactics both mine and downloaded and the end result is the same.Teams like Dinamo(Zagreb),Pro Vercelli,Cagliari,Siena,Genoa and Chievo are impossible to defeat.Unlike Barca,Real,Chelsea and United.It's a common occurence to fall 0-4 to Chievo at Juventus Stadium just as it is common occurence to beat Barcelona at Camp Nou.I've even thrashed them 4-1 there at one time.It's ridiculous and SI should take measures ASAP.

[Herbert Fandel]

I've made numerous restarts(over 30 combined), with different tactics both mine and downloaded and the end result is the same.Teams like Dinamo(Zagreb),Pro Vercelli,Cagliari,Siena,Genoa and Chievo are impossible to defeat.Unlike Barca,Real,Chelsea and United.It's a common occurence to fall 0-4 to Chievo at Juventus Stadium just as it is common occurence to beat Barcelona at Camp Nou.I've even thrashed them 4-1 there at one time.It's ridiculous and SI should take measures ASAP.

Why should SI take measures because you can't adjust your tactics to who you are playing? Plenty of other people can win matches, proving that the teams you listed are not 'impossible to defeat'.

[efreet]

Why should SI take measures because you can't adjust your tactics to who you are playing? Plenty of other people can win matches, proving that the teams you listed are not 'impossible to defeat'.

I'm using DIFFERNT tactics, both mine and downloaded, someone should have made at least one good...

[Herbert Fandel]

I'm using DIFFERNT tactics, both mine and downloaded, someone should have made at least one good...

It isn't as simple as that. A downloaded tactic won't work in all situations, and changing your tactics too regularly is bound to not work as the players don't know what is going on.

My advice would be to find a normalish tactic, and keep playing with it, even if you lose a few games. Then once it is bedded in, begin to think about who you are playing against. If it is against a team you think lesser than you, then you may need to adjust as they may sit back and try to hit you on the break. Based on what you have said it seems you have a good tactic for equal matches, based on your Barca results, but that leaves you too exposed whilst not creating anything against someone who has parked the bus.

You need thought and patience, not just to download something, stick it on and expect the world to kneel at your feet.

That said, recently I never change my tactics, because I am too lazy, but I often lose unexpected games, and am happy to be punished for my laziness.

[hypertoon]

I agree I probably should have started with a better team to get used to the game..then again, a lot of people have said they have struggled even with top teams. I'm doing okay in this new save so i'll keep this going for now

In both saves I set the target as just avoid relegation whch is what the board expected, but I only got 1.5 mill to spend, so it maybe was a bad choice to start with

Yeah I have to admit I found it hard for the first half season... I think most people will unless they start with a really top side in whatever league / country they choose to play in.

I think its a bit harsh that sunderland only have 1.5m in transfer funds at the start of the game... I'm not sure what would be more appropriate but I think most teams could probably get their hands on at least 5m.

keep trying as you say.. once you get a couple more decent bosmans it should start to turn around for you.. just a shame your first effort got you the sack..... I'm surprised really as you said the goals were to just avoid relegation.. which is fine... if you had said euro qualification then I could understand them sacking you for a bad half season...

best of luck

[Overmars]

I have always struggled during the first part of every season, new save or old, current version or older version. There is an adjustment period for the team to learn a tactic, improve team cohesion, and get over the fact that you are not a world class manager. I suppose this is somewhat realistic, but I find it incredibly frustrating. If my team is struggling to band together then surely there are other teams in my league facing the same struggle. And it's a bit self-perpetuating because once you lose 3 or 4 consecutive matches you can forget about expecting to win for a while. I started a new save last night on FM11 and lost my first 6 matches against inferior opponents. I cringe at the thought of playing my seventh match because I know the random game elements will break against me until I can somehow muster a victory.

[efreet]

It's not right that i can beat Napoli 5-1 by counter, but be 4th in a group with Zenit,Benfica and Dinamo Zagreb.SI should make smaller teams much much easier to beat as it is more realistic.

[scott MUFC]

my home tactic is smashing through everything, away it is shocking.

[hypertoon]

my home tactic is smashing through everything, away it is shocking.

I agree with that..

I can destroy barca, real, psg, bayern, man city and utd all at home, but really struggle in away games.....even the weaker teams and lower league clubs in the cup etc........ it looks like they have really hit away sides

[Kenco]

It's not right that i can beat Napoli 5-1 by counter, but be 4th in a group with Zenit,Benfica and Dinamo Zagreb.SI should make smaller teams much much easier to beat as it is more realistic.

You're not listening to a word of advice you are getting here. Change your strategy for easier opponents and go back to your winning strategy for harder opponents.

This is not affecting everybody so it's not an issue for SI to fix.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

You're not listening to a word of advice you are getting here. Change your strategy for easier opponents and go back to your winning strategy for harder opponents.

This is not affecting everybody so it's not an issue for SI to fix.

I disgaree, although you are right about changing tactics to suit a situation. I read many posts in different threads claiming that it is harder to beat an underdog than it is to beat a favourite, and I too have experienced this for 2 or 3 years. The stock answer to everything is "its your tactics" and technically that is true but I have yet to see an advice thread that gives sensible advice on "giving realism to the odds". I cannot recall one single post that claimed favourites are too difficult to beat AND underdogs are too easy to beat. I would suggest that taking all this into account there is indeed an issue with the effectiveness of AI teams parking the bus which is disproportionate to reality.

[Kenco]

I disgaree, although you are right about changing tactics to suit a situation. I read many posts in different threads claiming that it is harder to beat an underdog than it is to beat a favourite, and I too have experienced this for 2 or 3 years. The stock answer to everything is "its your tactics" and technically that is true but I have yet to see an advice thread that gives sensible advice on "giving realism to the odds". I cannot recall one single post that claimed favourites are too difficult to beat AND underdogs are too easy to beat. I would suggest that taking all this into account there is indeed an issue with the effectiveness of AI teams parking the bus which is disproportionate to reality.

Who woud open a thread titled "Can't beat Man Utd but I hammer the likes of Bristol Rovers everytime! This game is broken, sort it out SI!!"

That scenario is the norm and I'd guess the majority of users find this but don't feel the need to tell everyone.

Beating underdogs isn't always easy in real life and you do have to take a different approach when a team parks the bus. Just look at how the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool have struggled in recent seasons against so-called weaker teams after beating big teams. That's down to poor tactics.

[SweatyBob]

Just look at how the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool have struggled in recent seasons against so-called weaker teams after beating big teams. That's down to poor tactics.

No - It's down to some horrible transfer business at both clubs where the best players have left and being replaced with lesser players. Or do you seriously think Jonjo Shelvey and Oliver Giroud are the equals of Xabi Alonso and Robin Van Persie?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Who woud open a thread titled "Can't beat Man Utd but I hammer the likes of Bristol Rovers everytime! This game is broken, sort it out SI!!"

That scenario is the norm and I'd guess the majority of users find this but don't feel the need to tell everyone.

Beating underdogs isn't always easy in real life and you do have to take a different approach when a team parks the bus. Just look at how the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool have struggled in recent seasons against so-called weaker teams after beating big teams. That's down to poor tactics.

Another post that does little to advise how to beat the parked bus. By the way, I do know about the "Control" and "look for the overlap" options but in my experience for about 3 years now getting a positive result is easier against favourites than it is against underdogs. Maybe I and the many others that have experienced this luckily made tactics that overperform against the the former but do not have a clue how to make a tactic that even performs to expectation against the latter, but that is an unlikely scenario. If that is so then it suggests that the tactical advice in the forums (and I do include the T&TF) is somewhat lacking in clarity regarding achieving these odds on results.

[Jibby123]

Another post that does little to advise how to beat the parked bus. By the way, I do know about the "Control" and "look for the overlap" options but in my experience for about 3 years now getting a positive result is easier against favourites than it is against underdogs. Maybe I and the many others that have experienced this luckily made tactics that overperform against the the former but do not have a clue how to make a tactic that even performs to expectation against the latter, but that is an unlikely scenario. If that is so then it suggests that the tactical advice in the forums (and I do include the T&TF) is somewhat lacking in clarity regarding achieving these odds on results.

Agree with this.

[Kenco]

No - It's down to some horrible transfer business at both clubs where the best players have left and being replaced with lesser players. Or do you seriously think Jonjo Shelvey and Oliver Giroud are the equals of Xabi Alonso and Robin Van Persie?

Liverpool had these problems in the Alonso days as well.

[Kenco]

Another post that does little to advise how to beat the parked bus. By the way, I do know about the "Control" and "look for the overlap" options but in my experience for about 3 years now getting a positive result is easier against favourites than it is against underdogs. Maybe I and the many others that have experienced this luckily made tactics that overperform against the the former but do not have a clue how to make a tactic that even performs to expectation against the latter, but that is an unlikely scenario. If that is so then it suggests that the tactical advice in the forums (and I do include the T&TF) is somewhat lacking in clarity regarding achieving these odds on results.

If I get a chance this evening I'll post my tactics on here as I can't remember exactly what I use off the top of my head. It's pretty basic though; 4-2-3-1, attacking strategy, rigid philosophy, short passing, etc.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

If I get a chance this evening I'll post my tactics on here as I can't remember exactly what I use off the top of my head. It's pretty basic though; 4-2-3-1, attacking strategy, rigid philosophy, short passing, etc.

Cheers, its the difference between moving the bus and the other styles which I do seem to have a reasonable grasp of - but that bus, I cannot shift it!

[Kenco]

I think the best idea for shifting the bus is to have a varied attack so you are not just doing the same thing over and over. I play an IF on the left and a winger on the right, so whilst one is cutting inside between DR and DC, getting a few shots in and being an extra man in the box and making room for my DL to get down the flank, the other is stretcing the play, trying to beat the DL on the outside and getting crosses into the box.

My striker is a DLF on support so he is dropping deep, pulling defenders with him and making space for the IF (a) and AMC (a) to get ahead of him and into the box.

I like to think I have created a good tika-taka style of play where I delicately carve up the opposition rather than hacking at them with a machete. I get a lot of 3-0 or 3-1 results against bottom half teams, whilst only losing / drawing against the better teams.

[SweatyBob]

Liverpool had these problems in the Alonso days as well.

2nd in the league with 86 points doesn't indicate they had too many problems. Home against Stoke, Fulham, West Ham and Hull are the only games they failed to win that you could argue they should have won. Aside from that they had little problem beating smaller sides and certainly never got beat 1-0 a suspiciously high number of times.

I think the point the OP makes is that there isn't any clear indication why this happens in FM. All the suggestions are "I think" and "maybe it's..." rather than a definitive answer to why your attacking players miss so many CCC's and then the opposition just plod through your suddenly inept defence for one goal.

I only bought FM13 at Xmas but already I've seen a lot more inexplicably bad player mistakes from the games I played then I did in a full year of playing FM12. There's a real problem with the match engine or how the game represents what's being played out.

[Kenco]

I'm not sure I would want definitive answers, it would defeat the object of me trying to beat the game.

As for strikers missing lots of CCC's, this usually depends on how their first couple go - score one and his confidence will increase, meaning he is more likely to get another. But miss a couple of chances and he will get nervous, increasing the chance of missing the next one. In conjunction with this, a weaker side who park the bus will increase in confidence the longer a game stays nil-nil, increasing the likelihood of them nicking a goal themselves on the break, whilst the stronger team will get more frustrated the longer a game stays nil-nil which can lead to more missed chances and more mistakes.

[RTHerringbone]

I'm not sure I would want definitive answers, it would defeat the object of me trying to beat the game.

As for strikers missing lots of CCC's, this usually depends on how their first couple go - score one and his confidence will increase, meaning he is more likely to get another. But miss a couple of chances and he will get nervous, increasing the chance of missing the next one. In conjunction with this, a weaker side who park the bus will increase in confidence the longer a game stays nil-nil, increasing the likelihood of them nicking a goal themselves on the break, whilst the stronger team will get more frustrated the longer a game stays nil-nil which can lead to more missed chances and more mistakes.

Your points are important. Emotional / intelligent factors like confidence and morale are directly linked to performance, and it is for these reasons that sometimes it is hard to "see" why things go wrong. It is natural to just point to statistics like possession, shots and CCCs, but stats alone don't paint the full picture.

[Kenco]

They are crucial, it's why I keep checking my team every 5 minutes or so. Very nervous players are the first to be subbed for me, I'd rather have an unfit, confident player than a fit nervous wreck on the pitch. If my striker is nervous I sometimes switch him out to the wing and put someone else up front.

[SweatyBob]

Isn't there then a little too much emphasis on nerves then? I'll admit you do see players who are clearly low on confidence missing IRL, Torres at Chelsea being a very notorious one. But a player who scores at regular intervals throughout a season shouldn't fall to pieces to the extent that you have to sub him because he misses a couple of good chances early on in his next game.

Is there a stat that clearly defines the likelihood of this? Composure? Determination? Or are we supposed to guess that the misses are down to confidence and then further guess which stats are involved? I'm not asking for the game to give me a click by click guide on how to put things right but just to tell me clearly what is going wrong.