Does anyone else get irritated with inexplicable negative reactions to team talks?

[diggler75]

For example I'll say, 'I'm happy with how things are going, keep it up lads' when leading 1-0 at half-time and the entire team is confused, unhappy or angry!

It's actually rare to get any positive reaction. Sometimes one or two younger players will respond well but generally it's no response or it's negative.

[Jibby123]

"unhappy with training" is another one. A clue or a chat as to why, or which bit (coach, facilities, intensity, area of training) they are unhappy with would be nice!!

[hashassin]

their response depends on lot of things... what you said pre-match, are you a favourite, how the team played in first half... and your reputation is important as well, i was sacking and adding managers with different experience, and respond of players varied on that as well... i had a time that my team talks were basically worthless for a while cause i didnt know the language... but i cant complain about team talks, usually few are green, worst case no one reacts at all...

plus i never say to my team you're doing a good job when they're leading 1:0...if they have 2 goal difference - maybe, depends, if 3 goal diff or more - i always say they do good

[Ike013]

Reputation seems to be important for this, at the start I usually get little response. After a while I usually get mostly positive reactions, unless I click on the wrong reaction by being to fast.

A confirmation button would be nice.

[Herbert Fandel]

A confirmation button would be nice.

As long as it didn't tell you their reactions first, and it was optional.

I would be more annoyed by the continual extra click by than the odd time I give the wrong talk

[DuncanJM]

One thing that does really frustrate me about team talks is that you have to talk to the players as a whole first, and then individually.

I have games where I am favourite, but at half time am losing 2-1 and the team has performed really badly other than one player (the goalscorer) who is on a solid 8.0. If I blast the team, the 8.0 rated player will be unhappy and if I then praise him or try to motivate him individually it will come up with confused. I would like to have the ability to give individual team talks first, and then possibly give a team talk with a maximum of two players that you can exclude from it.

[hashassin]

One thing that does really frustrate me about team talks is that you have to talk to the players as a whole first, and then individually.

I have games where I am favourite, but at half time am losing 2-1 and the team has performed really badly other than one player (the goalscorer) who is on a solid 8.0. If I blast the team, the 8.0 rated player will be unhappy and if I then praise him or try to motivate him individually it will come up with confused. I would like to have the ability to give individual team talks first, and then possibly give a team talk with a maximum of two players that you can exclude from it.

agree 100%

[Kazza]

One thing that does really frustrate me about team talks is that you have to talk to the players as a whole first, and then individually.

I have games where I am favourite, but at half time am losing 2-1 and the team has performed really badly other than one player (the goalscorer) who is on a solid 8.0. If I blast the team, the 8.0 rated player will be unhappy and if I then praise him or try to motivate him individually it will come up with confused. I would like to have the ability to give individual team talks first, and then possibly give a team talk with a maximum of two players that you can exclude from it.

Agreed. Otherwise it is frustrating as you say not to be able to single out a player for praise first.

[TSH]

To the OP: Your comment is perfectly logical and the team shouldn't have any negative reactions when they are playing good and winning 1-0 at HT. The worst reaction should be indifferent and that's from the really ambitious and star players.

It's another badly designed feature that rarely makes a sense to the player, unless you make some amazing leaps of logic.

[NotMyCat]

As a bit of an aside does anyone else find it irritating that if you make, say, two subs, the individual team talk to one will affect the other?

Example:

You bring on player X and Y.

I tell X that I expect a performance.

X has no reaction, but for some reason Y looks happy.

I tell Y the same thing.

Y now has no reaction, but X now looks motivated!

[PoolFan]

To the OP: Your comment is perfectly logical and the team shouldn't have any negative reactions when they are playing good and winning 1-0 at HT. The worst reaction should be indifferent and that's from the really ambitious and star players.

It's another badly designed feature that rarely makes a sense to the player, unless you make some amazing leaps of logic.

SI tried to implement a motivational feature and instead turned it into a mystic meg guessing game, this coupled with the lack of documentation are by two major issue with the game.

[BiggusD]

I rarely experience this. Mostly, I get no reaction (which can be good) or a few positive reactions (which isn't necessarily good). I make sure to understand the context around team talks, though, and in the vast majority of cases they do make sense.

The OP didn't inform about the context of the 1-0 at HT example, so it is impossible to say wether or not it is poor design or a logical outcome.

* The match odds will indicate the likelyhood of a win or loss, and the players will know this.

* Rival matches often require a different approach than "normal" matches, and so does other big matches.

* Your manager reputation compared to your players and the club has a huge impact on team talks.

* Professionalism, Ambition, Pressure, Important Matches, Temperament and Controversy are six hidden attributes that have an impact on team talks, along with Determination of course.

These are just a few factors, and the most important one is how big a favourite/underdog you are. If you were a big favourite to win the match, being one goal up at half-time isn't anywhere near good enough to warrant praise by the manager. If that was the case, the outcome of your team talk was logical. If not, it is likely a bug.

The basic understanding that many FM-users seems to miss is that man management in this game is not about praising wins and criticising defeat. The only thing such an approach will earn you is the nickname "Captain Obvious", because whatever you say makes no difference whatsoever. Rather, man management in football is all about maintaining the correct focus in the squad - not nervous, not frustrated, not angry, not complacent but a confident determination to win.

[BiggusD]

Weird double post...

[themadsheep2001]

I rarely experience this. Mostly, I get no reaction (which can be good) or a few positive reactions (which isn't necessarily good). I make sure to understand the context around team talks, though, and in the vast majority of cases they do make sense.

The OP didn't inform about the context of the 1-0 at HT example, so it is impossible to say wether or not it is poor design or a logical outcome.

* The match odds will indicate the likelyhood of a win or loss, and the players will know this.

* Rival matches often require a different approach than "normal" matches, and so does other big matches.

* Your manager reputation compared to your players and the club has a huge impact on team talks.

* Professionalism, Ambition, Pressure, Important Matches, Temperament and Controversy are six hidden attributes that have an impact on team talks, along with Determination of course.

These are just a few factors, and the most important one is how big a favourite/underdog you are. If you were a big favourite to win the match, being one goal up at half-time isn't anywhere near good enough to warrant praise by the manager. If that was the case, the outcome of your team talk was logical. If not, it is likely a bug.

The basic understanding that many FM-users seems to miss is that man management in this game is not about praising wins and criticising defeat. The only thing such an approach will earn you is the nickname "Captain Obvious", because whatever you say makes no difference whatsoever. Rather, man management in football is all about maintaining the correct focus in the squad - not nervous, not frustrated, not angry, not complacent but a confident determination to win.

Couldn't have put it any better.

[hashassin]

I rarely experience this. Mostly, I get no reaction (which can be good) or a few positive reactions (which isn't necessarily good). I make sure to understand the context around team talks, though, and in the vast majority of cases they do make sense.

The OP didn't inform about the context of the 1-0 at HT example, so it is impossible to say wether or not it is poor design or a logical outcome.

* The match odds will indicate the likelyhood of a win or loss, and the players will know this.

* Rival matches often require a different approach than "normal" matches, and so does other big matches.

* Your manager reputation compared to your players and the club has a huge impact on team talks.

* Professionalism, Ambition, Pressure, Important Matches, Temperament and Controversy are six hidden attributes that have an impact on team talks, along with Determination of course.

These are just a few factors, and the most important one is how big a favourite/underdog you are. If you were a big favourite to win the match, being one goal up at half-time isn't anywhere near good enough to warrant praise by the manager. If that was the case, the outcome of your team talk was logical. If not, it is likely a bug.

The basic understanding that many FM-users seems to miss is that man management in this game is not about praising wins and criticising defeat. The only thing such an approach will earn you is the nickname "Captain Obvious", because whatever you say makes no difference whatsoever. Rather, man management in football is all about maintaining the correct focus in the squad - not nervous, not frustrated, not angry, not complacent but a confident determination to win.

this post should be used to answer all future threads like that:thup:

[DarthCraigus]

As long as it didn't tell you their reactions first, and it was optional.

I would be more annoyed by the continual extra click by than the odd time I give the wrong talk

Trouble is for me, if you select the wrong team talk by clicking too fast, or as I sometimes do because I play FM on a laptop, accidentally hit the touchpad too early/too hard, it can totally screw up your match. I would be perfectly happy for the extra click if it meant that I could negate this. As you say though, you shouldn't be able to see the reactions first otherwise it will just be exploited until people get the best reaction from the players.

More on topic, I sometimes get extremely confused with the team talks and while I have generally done well on FM more often than not, it's definitely an aspect I could do with more of an understanding on. For instance I was playing last night, my Gateshead side (top of the BSP) were 3-0 up at half time, away to 7th placed Alfreton. I have never encountered a positive reaction in any iteration of FM when telling my players not to let complacency creep into their game, and as I was 3-0 up and seemingly cruising, I praised them and said I was pleased with their game and to keep it up. Wrong, wrong, WRONG! I got mauled for the entirety of the second half and we were lucky to come out of the game 3-3. Thing is I'm not sure of another acceptable thing to say at 3-0 up, from the choices we have. It's either give your team praised for playing so well, or give warning to them to guard against complacency.

It's something I'm going to have to read up on I think to get a bit more of an understanding of the dynamics of it and how it works.

[BiggusD]

Trouble is for me, if you select the wrong team talk by clicking too fast, or as I sometimes do because I play FM on a laptop, accidentally hit the touchpad too early/too hard, it can totally screw up your match. I would be perfectly happy for the extra click if it meant that I could negate this. As you say though, you shouldn't be able to see the reactions first otherwise it will just be exploited until people get the best reaction from the players.

More on topic, I sometimes get extremely confused with the team talks and while I have generally done well on FM more often than not, it's definitely an aspect I could do with more of an understanding on. For instance I was playing last night, my Gateshead side (top of the BSP) were 3-0 up at half time, away to 7th placed Alfreton. I have never encountered a positive reaction in any iteration of FM when telling my players not to let complacency creep into their game, and as I was 3-0 up and seemingly cruising, I praised them and said I was pleased with their game and to keep it up. Wrong, wrong, WRONG! I got mauled for the entirety of the second half and we were lucky to come out of the game 3-3. Thing is I'm not sure of another acceptable thing to say at 3-0 up, from the choices we have. It's either give your team praised for playing so well, or give warning to them to guard against complacency.

It's something I'm going to have to read up on I think to get a bit more of an understanding of the dynamics of it and how it works.

I don't usually warn against complacency on 3-0 either, but I'm managing Lazio season 5 and the average Determination of my squad is like 17 or something, and since they are all (or were) young prospects they are all stacked up on Professionalism and Ambition. This is different from the BSP.

What about Assertive You Are Doing Well But Can Do Even Better? That's the one I would use if I was wary of praising.

Also, screw "positive" reactions. If they become angered because you tell them to not relax, let them be angry! You place way too much emphasis on those stupid arrows. Ignore them. The correct team talk is correct regardless of what they players are or are not saying. Consequently, I have never had a negative -actual- reaction from a negative team talk reaction. Rather, the angered players becomes Fired Up as far as I can tell...

[Shake Appeal]

Team talks are hardly ever inexplicable, though there are some annoyances about what options are available to you and when. I think most people's issues with them come from not paying enough attention to player personalities in general, and more specifically the individual personalities within their team.

[Shake Appeal]

I have never encountered a positive reaction in any iteration of FM when telling my players not to let complacency creep into their game...

When are you using it? Here's the half-time talk in the match I was in the middle of playing while reading this thread:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a343/iambic5/complacency_zps535c9119.png

If you have a team of professional players (this is usually obvious) who can handle pressure (this is less so, but there are still clues) and are only performing adequately in a game where you are favourites, or are lucky to be up by a goal or two in a game where you aren't favoured, it's one of the easiest options to pick. It only tends to backfire when you're being unduly harsh on what your players have achieved relative to the odds or when your players are unprofessional.

The three players who didn't respond immediately to this were García, who has a fairly poor personality (he is only Fairly Loyal) and usually needs stronger appeals to his vanity (he likes when I ask him to impress me; he also likes when I appeal to the fans, probably because he favours the club); Verdi, who is only Fairly Professional, and who was in a bad mood about something else coming into this game; and Donati... which is a little surprising given he is Spirited and Evasive with DET 17, but he's also 19 and missed a CCC earlier in the game and so was nervous and didn't need additional pressure. In all three cases I just defaulted to having faith and got a small morale boost, a least (Verdi's hasn't registered because of a bug I've noticed that doesn't update team talks on each click).

For the record, the score is 1-0 to us, but the score isn't really that important for team talks.

[themadsheep2001]

Team talks are hardly ever inexplicable, though there are some annoyances about what options are available to you and when. I think most people's issues with them come from not paying enough attention to player personalities in general, and more specifically the individual personalities within their team.

Indeed, but I also think FM is still too sparse about the information it gives you on player personalities

[Shake Appeal]

Indeed, but I also think FM is still too sparse about the information it gives you on player personalities

Sometimes I'd agree with this... but I also think a hugely fun part of the game is learning how different players think and act, and spotting little bits of information that give you a sense of who they are and how they might respond to different talks. Like working out that my Determined, Level-headed veteran centre back is surprisingly bad at handling pressure because he reacts badly when there's transfer speculation about his future. Now he's out of the running for vice-captain!

People and their motivations are mysterious in real life. I'm glad FM makes people mysterious in its fake world, too.

What I would say is that if you were a complete novice and didn't know there were hidden attributes, the game does absolutely nothing to help you with that.

[milnerpoint]

Biggus hit the nail on the head, context is everything, winning 1-0 tells us nothing, i would rarely use happy being 1-0 up, unless i was beating a team above my level, or playing extremely well and just unlucky to be 1 goal up.

In regards to team talk documentation, do we really want to get to the point that every detail is explained in full and all the mystery is gone in the game? I'm like Shake, i like figuring things out, i like figuring out how things work, and most importantly i love learning when i play the game, as strange as it may sound. I think one the main issues with team talks are people dont give them enough credit in regards to how complex they can actually be. They are never as easy as praise win, criticise defeat and if you treat them as such you get into trouble.

The other thing is, a team talk only effects your players for a very short space of time so choosing what you deem to be a "wrong" team talk is not likely to lead to defeat that often, just like a team talk alone will not usually win you a game. There are odd occasions where that first 15 minutes of each half is vital to the game obviously, but they are few and far between.

[Ninian Park 1910 - 2009]

just lost 8-0 and when i said i was angry at the result they where all annoyed ?....surely they cant of thought it was goood

[themadsheep2001]

Sometimes I'd agree with this... but I also think a hugely fun part of the game is learning how different players think and act, and spotting little bits of information that give you a sense of who they are and how they might respond to different talks. Like working out that my Determined, Level-headed veteran centre back is surprisingly bad at handling pressure because he reacts badly when there's transfer speculation about his future. Now he's out of the running for vice-captain!

People and their motivations are mysterious in real life. I'm glad FM makes people mysterious in its fake world, too.

What I would say is that if you were a complete novice and didn't know there were hidden attributes, the game does absolutely nothing to help you with that.

I do agree on that, but I think that as you spend time with your squad, or for example send a scout on a long term scouting of a player this information should over time be revealed

[QWERTYOP]

They seem to have replaced ridiculous fluctuations of moral with (at best) odd team talk reactions. Take last night - one nil up at half time in an end to end, close game - I tell my team not to lose focus. Nine of my players respond well to this, but two of my players "seemed confused".

Why in the blue Hell would that confuse somebody?!

[Earnie is God!]

I understand what Biggus is saying about having to take a number of things into account.

However, I was still baffled by a HT team talk reaction the other day.

We were at home and clear favourites to win the match and found ourselves 3-0 up at HT. My AssMan was in charge of team talks at the time so I couldn't do anything with individual talks when all 11 players reacted with 'confused' when he said they'd done a good job and to keep it up.

In the 2nd half the oppo proceeded to claw back to 3-3 and if it wasn't for a 93rd min trademark thunderdrive from Hitzlsperger to win the match 4-3, I would have been fuming.

Someone else posted a very similar thing the other day when his Everton team were 3-0 up at home to Man City at HT. 10 of his players were confused and the other one was unhappy.

I just don't see the logic in it.

[BiggusD]

I understand what Biggus is saying about having to take a number of things into account.

However, I was still baffled by a HT team talk reaction the other day.

We were at home and clear favourites to win the match and found ourselves 3-0 up at HT. My AssMan was in charge of team talks at the time so I couldn't do anything with individual talks when all 11 players reacted with 'confused' when he said they'd done a good job and to keep it up.

In the 2nd half the oppo proceeded to claw back to 3-3 and if it wasn't for a 93rd min trademark thunderdrive from Hitzlsperger to win the match 4-3, I would have been fuming.

Someone else posted a very similar thing the other day when his Everton team were 3-0 up at home to Man City at HT. 10 of his players were confused and the other one was unhappy.

I just don't see the logic in it.

Yes as I said I usually praise when three goals up at HT, and it usually works fine. Even if some players get complacent, they become concentrated again if the opponent claws one back. I agree that it sounds strange that the players got confused in the scenario you describe. Maybe it was the tone?

[Sussex Hammer]

I recently signed Oscar for the Hammers in 2016 and I think every team talk he isn't bothered or is confused but he still plays quite well. It's frustrating though because "if" it's linked to your reputation why did he join the Club then??!!!!

I have sorted the "too much training" issue out by lowering a players training but it is bizarre when you have lowered it as much as it will go and they are still unhappy!!

The whole "player reaction" thing from team talks to relationships needs a massive overhaul because at times you just can't win. You fine a player for getting sent off for violent conduct and he is unhappy, yet if you don't fine him some players are unhappy at the lack of discipline. The most annoying one is players who find it tough to motivate themselves to play for XXXXX because he is Captain, but he is the best option for Captain so what do you do???

In FM12 it was annoying that certain players couldn't motivate themselves to play for you and yet they signed for you!! This happened even when things were going well. It seems to be better this version but as I say the whole interaction thing needs a revamp.

[hugo_rune]

No, I don't. I don't let anything in the game irritate me, I just accept that sometimes things aren't going to work out how I expect, and I either try to learn how I can do things differently, or I just adapt as circumstances change.

It makes the game a lot more enjoyable!

[milnerpoint]

I have never ever seen a player get unhappy for getting fined for a straight red card, only ever if they have been sent off for two bookings, strange because i fine every single player for a straight red.

[Kenco]

One thing that does really frustrate me about team talks is that you have to talk to the players as a whole first, and then individually.

That is a strange way of doing things.

Just another reason why I let my assistant handle all team talks.

[Sussex Hammer]

I have never ever seen a player get unhappy for getting fined for a straight red card, only ever if they have been sent off for two bookings, strange because i fine every single player for a straight red.

Should have explained. If it's a second red they have received under me I tend to fine two weeks wages, that's when one or two get ratty.

[BiggusD]

Should have explained. If it's a second red they have received under me I tend to fine two weeks wages, that's when one or two get ratty.

They aren't coded to react to that kind of logic.

[Freakiie]

They aren't coded to react to that kind of logic.

Which is pretty annoying, since it just turns into a "which reaction does the game like best" situation instead off a "do what you would do" situation.

I fine players if they get a second yellow for diving because I consider it plain stupid. I know the game won't like it, but I think it's appropriate. So far I haven't lost a player to it and if it was to happen then so be it. Would mean one less diver in my team at least.

[milnerpoint]

Should have explained. If it's a second red they have received under me I tend to fine two weeks wages, that's when one or two get ratty.

Makes sense, and id agree its daft. If a player gets a second booking for a dive he should be fined, no question. The problem is the game doesnt really take the actual event into context i dont think. It just see's red card or yellow card when it comes to dealing with the player.

[BiggusD]

Which is pretty annoying, since it just turns into a "which reaction does the game like best" situation instead off a "do what you would do" situation.

I fine players if they get a second yellow for diving because I consider it plain stupid. I know the game won't like it, but I think it's appropriate. So far I haven't lost a player to it and if it was to happen then so be it. Would mean one less diver in my team at least.

Yeah, until you actually get a "fine player because of repeated unprofessional behaviour on the pitch" option, the divers will continue to react as though the fine was harsh. In the game's terms, it is harsh. It shouldn't be, though. This sort of thing is definitely an area that can be improved in the future.

[Bobble2002]

What annoys is me when you tell a player off for playing badly it is always someone else reacts not him .

[diggler75]

Following up on my original post... I've discovered that the problem with strange reactions was only happening in my first season. The longer I play the game was the more positive the players react.

[Shake Appeal]

Okay, there's a few things to go through here:

It's frustrating though because "if" it's linked to your reputation why did he join the Club then??!!!!

It is linked to your reputation. It's also linked to the player's personality. I am not sure if it's his starting personality, because I'm in the year 2017 at the moment, but Oscar is Ambitious and Media Friendly with DET 16. That tells you nothing about his professionalism, nothing about how he deals with pressure, and nothing about his temperament. If he's new to a club he thinks is beneath him, and Ambitious, and thinks you are beneath him in Reputation terms, and doesn't have any sort of relationship with you yet, and lacks the mental attributes to overlook these things, then yes, he is going to be difficult to motivate.

I have sorted the "too much training" issue out by lowering a players training but it is bizarre when you have lowered it as much as it will go and they are still unhappy!!

Complaints about training indicate a distinct lack of professionalism (and professionalism is probably the one stat you should care about most in any player). Again, this is linked to the personalities of the players and how you manage and shape those as you manage and shape your squad. Determined professionals will die of exhaustion before they complain about their training, while lazy and volatile players will cause you no end of grief.

The most annoying one is players who find it tough to motivate themselves to play for XXXXX because he is Captain, but he is the best option for Captain so what do you do???

What you can do is start reassessing what the "best option" is. Don't just look for high Influence and Determination; look at the players' personalities. Learn what you can about their loyalty, or other qualities you want transmitted throughout your club. Pick up any clues about relationships within the squad through team talks and whom your players list as favoured personnel. And pay close attention to Squad Status and Reputation. The Reputation system in FM has needed overhauling for years, but we still have to live with it for now.

In FM12 it was annoying that certain players couldn't motivate themselves to play for you and yet they signed for you!!

I agree, but money is a helluva drug! Generally you can tell when a player is just not that into your club, but not if they're going to be unimpressed by you.

What annoys is me when you tell a player off for playing badly it is always someone else reacts not him .

While this can happen (by design: some players like or dislike other players, and so respond if they feel you're being too kind or too harsh on their enemies and friends), there is also what seems to be a bug in FM13 where it doesn't 'refresh' players' responses to individual team talks until you move onto the next player. So it seems like each player is responding to the next chat rather than the one you gave them. I've mentioned this before, but I don't know if SI have taken note.

Following up on my original post... I've discovered that the problem with strange reactions was only happening in my first season. The longer I play the game was the more positive the players react.

Yes! This is because your Reputation has risen, or they've come to like you, or more likely both.

Player and team interactions are complicated. There are a lot of factors at play, more than people seem to take into account, and so it's difficult to reduce things to clear and straightforward advice for a given situation, because the situations (and people involved) are always different. And that's how it should be.