catennacio Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 On the latest 13.2.2. Not sure if others have the same problem with me. My players seem to love the wood work more than the goal itself. Like they won't be able to sleep at night if they didn't. They hit the bars at least 2-3 times a match. Every single match. Why does this ancient bug still persist in 13.2.2? I thought people solved it back in FM10. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Seen it since FM12, its like there's a magnet inside the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbanrael Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 There probably is IRL as well. Just look at Lukaku's efforts last weekend... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 16, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted January 16, 2013 In our internal tests ( Season 2012/13 with a bunch of leagues in full detail and no human managers ) we are seeing an average of about 1.1 woodwork hit per match, or 0.55 per team. We do actually think this is perhaps a bit high but reducing it seems to be rather elusive and in honesty its not high enough to be a big priority right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 In our internal tests ( Season 2012/13 with a bunch of leagues in full detail and no human managers ) we are seeing an average of about 1.1 woodwork hit per match, or 0.55 per team. We do actually think this is perhaps a bit high but reducing it seems to be rather elusive and in honesty its not high enough to be a big priority right now. I think that in this case you must stop looking at the big picture and look more for the little detail. I agree with you that a 1.1 woodwork hit per match it's not too high... but the real problem is that we have games where there are 6 or 7 woodwork hits, something that i never seen irl. I believe this is why people complain about this issue, because as you know you can have the same average with 100 balanced results or with 50 very high results plus 50 very low results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The problem is that nobody remembers the games where there are no attempts on the woodwork, we all remember that game s where there are a few. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 The problem is that nobody remembers the games where there are no attempts on the woodwork, we all remember that game s where there are a few. This is true... but i'm just saying that getting a 1.1 average per game dont necessary mean that the balance is right! 10 games, with 1 woodwork hit per game... give us a average of 1 hit per game 10 games, with 5 games with 2 woodwork hits and 5 games with none... give us a average of 1 hit per game 10 games with 1 game with 10 woodwork hits and 9 games with none... give us a average os 1 hit per game Same average in all cases, but in the last one something is really off balanced! And i think this is the case in FM2013! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catennacio Posted January 16, 2013 Author Share Posted January 16, 2013 In our internal tests ( Season 2012/13 with a bunch of leagues in full detail and no human managers ) we are seeing an average of about 1.1 woodwork hit per match, or 0.55 per team. We do actually think this is perhaps a bit high but reducing it seems to be rather elusive and in honesty its not high enough to be a big priority right now. Averaging the number of woodworks is, IMHO, not the correct approach to deal with this kind of problems. The problem is that this consistently happens in consecutive matches. When was the last time you saw 3 matches in a row in EPL that had 1 woodwork every game? In SPL? Calcio? Not so many, or perhaps, I would say once every 2-3 years IRL. In FM2013, this happens every single match (well, up to 95% of the matches). And yes, 1.1 is VERY high. Either you shoot the bird or you shoot the ball into the goal. Not at the bars once every match (in your average calculation). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 16, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted January 16, 2013 Averaging the number of woodworks is, IMHO, not the correct approach to deal with this kind of problems. The problem is that this consistently happens in consecutive matches. When was the last time you saw 3 matches in a row in EPL that had 1 woodwork every game? In SPL? Calcio? Not so many, or perhaps, I would say once every 2-3 years IRL. In FM2013, this happens every single match (well, up to 95% of the matches).And yes, 1.1 is VERY high. Either you shoot the bird or you shoot the ball into the goal. Not at the bars once every match (in your average calculation). I disagree. And anecdotally I generally would expect to see some woodwork action in most games I watch at some point, although that's just a gut feeling without statistical evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajj 7 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I'm not sure there should be regular games where you hit the woodwork 5,6 even 7 times, that's unrealistic. The average doesn't reveal that. At the very least I'd like an alternative answer to the post match press conference question about it as I'm bored of the one where I have hit the woodwork an 'an incredible x times' because for me it's fairly regular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 16, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted January 16, 2013 Is anyone seeing any correlation between multiple woodwork hits and the "places shots" ppm? Beyond that, I dont see anything happening on this for the 13 cycle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinji Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 av 1.1 per game seems way too high if the image posted here http://www.thefootballforum.net/index.php?/topic/211780-the-woodwork-hitting-league-table/ is correct. That had 209 woodworks in prem league (100 bar, 109 post) in late April this year, so lets say they'd had 34 game-weeks at that point, that's about 340 games in total, or 0.6 per game which I have to say feels closer to my gut feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruosen Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I had several matches with 7-8 wood-works (single team!) while other matches with one or none. Statistically the avg. wood-work will converge to somewhere around 1.1 and it's not unreasonable. Even though SI increase the average wood-work to 2 it's still acceptable. But since you explain internal test of hitting the bar with machine managers only, why couldn't control variations, e.g. avg. 1.1 but 5 standard deviations will result approximately 1/3 chances (1.1+/-5=) 0-6.5 wood-works per match. If SI try to control data yielding 2 avg. but 2 standard deviations, 0-4 wood-works per match, for 2 teams, could be the mainstream and it's acceptable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibby123 Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Is anyone seeing any correlation between multiple woodwork hits and the "places shots" ppm?Beyond that, I dont see anything happening on this for the 13 cycle. No I'm not, none of my attackers have it as a PPM. I don't know what is happening, but I said a while ago I need to write to Soccer AM to enter my team on crossbar (or invent a new post) challenge. They'd clean up. If not from the halfway line. My input means squat because as you say nothing is happening this cycle on it, but if it's 1.1 woodworks per game we're playing different games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federico Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Legni = Woodwork Summing up, I selected the first 10 official matches played in season 1. 18 woodwork in total, with an easy average of 1.8 woodwork per match. Pretty high to me. Is anyone seeing any correlation between multiple woodwork hits and the "places shots" ppm?Beyond that, I dont see anything happening on this for the 13 cycle. There is only 1 player of mine who currently has "places shots" as ppm, and he is Sebastian Giovinco. However I don't play him regularly but as backup of my AML/Forward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catennacio Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 In the grieve of streaming losses due to woodwork I contribute yet another non-bug thought-to-be-ancient creation of SI Should I have won the match? Edit1: next match, now only 2 woodwork and luckily we won. The media said we should have won by a bigger margin. Edit2: the match after Edit3: the 4th match in a row Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 In the grieve of streaming losses due to woodwork I contribute yet another non-bug thought-to-be-ancient creation of SIShould I have won the match? You should, but sometimes the team that deserves to win... ends up loosing the game. This happen every weekend around the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
catennacio Posted January 17, 2013 Author Share Posted January 17, 2013 You should, but sometimes the team that deserves to win... ends up loosing the game. This happen every weekend around the world. Yes, but why does it happen almost every match to me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 17, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted January 17, 2013 Catennacio all your matches have a lot of shots vs the average, so clearly you will see more instances of woodwork over a season. And the better you are, the closer your shots to goal so the more that will perhaps hit woodwork instead of going over or wide. We know its a little too high, but we arent prioritising it as a must fix right now as we dont think its a big enough deal compared to some other issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 We know its a little too high, but we arent prioritising it as a must fix right now as we dont think its a big enough deal compared to some other issues. I have to agree on this, its not gamebreaking in any way, and its the same for every team so its no biggie. You will probably try to tune it a bit for FM14, right? Sidenote: Is Oliver working for SIgames now? I remember he quit to ride a motorcycle across the US, then later I read he returned to Sigames. But haven't heard anything about him for a few years now. Also, is Marc Vaughan still around SI towers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Catennacio all your matches have a lot of shots vs the average, so clearly you will see more instances of woodwork over a season. And the better you are, the closer your shots to goal so the more that will perhaps hit woodwork instead of going over or wide.We know its a little too high, but we arent prioritising it as a must fix right now as we dont think its a big enough deal compared to some other issues. PaulC, I believe that with the new upcoming patch, the total number of shots will be reduced, right? So... with that... perhaps the number of woodwork shots will be reduced too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 17, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted January 17, 2013 I have to agree on this, its not gamebreaking in any way, and its the same for every team so its no biggie. You will probably try to tune it a bit for FM14, right?Sidenote: Is Oliver working for SIgames now? I remember he quit to ride a motorcycle across the US, then later I read he returned to Sigames. But haven't heard anything about him for a few years now. Also, is Marc Vaughan still around SI towers? Yes Ov is still with us, and MV. The motorcycle ride is news to me though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters76 Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Yes Ov is still with us, and MV. The motorcycle ride is news to me though Oh, guess I can't trust the media afterall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I tend to see lots of corners put in the box and headed onto the bar or post. In fact it's generally headers that hit the woodwork. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff PaulC Posted January 17, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted January 17, 2013 PaulC, I believe that with the new upcoming patch, the total number of shots will be reduced, right? So... with that... perhaps the number of woodwork shots will be reduced too. Perhaps, we will see...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Perhaps, we will see...... Very... mysterious! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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