Lost my love of the game

[Spokesman]

Playing fluid isnt to do with being the best team in the league, or a stricter sense of positioning. Wondering if you are misunderstanding philosopy here. Balanced has a bigger mentality split, so you are actually creating more depth in the pitch for your side, giving youself more room to operate in. Also effects the level of creative freedom certain roles would have had.

I think you missed the point. What is the indicator that your team cant handle a certain style of play? Yeah being the most creative squad, you would expect the team to react well to having higher creativity, but that would be too logical. Maybe I just don't get it.

[dooro23]

You missed his point: "Balanced has a bigger mentality split, so you are actually creating more depth in the pitch for your side, giving youself more room to operate in"

edit: You need to follow RTHerringbone's advice to get anything more than that as an answer. Or read some of the guides in the Tactics Forum.

[mattboy_slim]

Svenc's post earlier on in this thread is the most important one to read imo. I feel people do over complicate things when it comes to tactics.

[PassMaster]

I very rarely do too much to sliders and instead pretty much run with my TC creation. Previous patches were very enjoyable and the team performed as set up, I do agree you can over think tactics when pretty much you can gain success without doing a thing aside from using TC and the setting it produces with what you apply. You buy/mold/produce your players for the setup and carry on.

If you have the latest patch I can imagine you tweaking all sorts trying to get a improvements, reality is your tactic is probably fine, the current Match Engine is unplayable.

[RTHerringbone]

If you have the latest patch I can imagine you tweaking all sorts trying to get a improvements, reality is your tactic is probably fine, the current Match Engine is unplayable.

I don't like rising to bait, but......the engine is flawed but is far from unplayable. The old mantra that a good tactic will work regardless of the ME applies and is 100% true.

You can mitigate the issues with the ME, maybe you shouldn't have to, but you can while we wait for the next update.

Assuming the update addresses the existing flaws without creating others, then the need to mitigate goes, and sensible tactics will succeed without tweaks.

[MichaelBrown]

If you feel that you understood how tactics work and how to play previous versions, then essentially that should still be the same.

Are you sure you didn't just have a tactic in previous versions which exploited the poor ME in some way? Perhaps without realising?

This sums up my view unfortunately. You should post your tactic so somebody can play with it and find out the issues.

[Svenc]

I feel people do over complicate things when it comes to tactics.

Very much so. The issue isn't helped by popular fan sites providing download platforms for complete nonsense which might work for a limited number of high quality teams frequently overloading and outplaying their opposition regardless, but completely falls apart once the gulf in class isn't there and the schoolboy errors in logics are exploited. I kid you not, you'll quickly find tactics being advertised as the "best ever" which totally compress space in the final third and/or don't allow for any kind of cover in such and similar ways easily, and long-time FMers, albeit a minority, openly recommending them to like everyone.

It's been done to death that the underlying slider mechanics are all but obvious (and horribly documented to boot). But some kind of sensible logics and mild TC twiddling go a longn way in avoiding such extreme frustration, safe for the balancing issues there still exist in ME/player behavior, but the AI has to put up with all the same.

[wwfan]

I think you missed the point. What is the indicator that your team cant handle a certain style of play? Yeah being the most creative squad, you would expect the team to react well to having higher creativity, but that would be too logical. Maybe I just don't get it.

This is a misunderstanding of the creative freedom slider. It has nothing to do with creativity. It is a flair boost. Not that intuitive, I know, which is why I suggest people ignore sliders.

Rule of thumb is:

The philosophies are mentality and creative freedom structures. They range from being very structured with low creative freedom, to being very unstructured with lots of creative freedom. A useful interpretation would be as follows:

Very Rigid: Each player is given a job and is supposed to stick to it (usually 5+ different roles across a team)

Rigid: Players are assigned a responsibility that contributes to a specific element of play (Defence, defence & transition, transition & attack, attack)

Balanced: Players focus on their duty (Defend, Support, Attack)

Fluid: Players are given instructions to focus on defence or attack

Very Fluid: Players contribute to all aspects of play

As you can see, each step reduces the level of specialisation. At Very Rigid, you have five different roles, Rigid four responsibilities, Balanced three duties, Fluid two focuses, Very Fluid one method. In Very Rigid philosophies, you expect players to stick to their role, so can assign multiple specialist roles. In Very Fluid philosophies, you expect everybody to do a bit of everything, which means specialist roles are redundant.

In terms of your issue, you might well have improved because you had a number of specialist roles that weren't optimal because the CF was very high and stopping players from obeying their very specialised instructions. Once you lowered CF, patterns of play improved and you began to do better.

[PassMaster]

Wasn't any bait there my man, I just personally find it unplayable now, in other words my personal enjoyment has gone due to unrealistic outcomes. I have adjusted to the latest ME and made a tactic that has stopped the opposition scoring from the flanks so much but problems the other end lead to me scraping 1-0 wins or draws and losses from goals from the flanks still, despite me competing well in most matches, creating plenty of chances. I have had quality players missing open goals by hitting the post, players with high composure, tech, fin and high moral, looking composed etc etc etc.

It's nice watching my team play how I want them too, their shape, their passing, their movement, that part is playable. Sadly the most important details aren't and that's realistic outcomes from final third phases and defensive phases.

So I've simply put it down until these details are fixed.

[themadsheep2001]

You missed his point: "Balanced has a bigger mentality split, so you are actually creating more depth in the pitch for your side, giving youself more room to operate in"

edit: You need to follow RTHerringbone's advice to get anything more than that as an answer. Or read some of the guides in the Tactics Forum.

That and also by default Balanced has a lower CF (which modifies flair) than Fluid. Means his players are less likely to follow their own tendencies. That added to more space might have led to the improvements. Also Balanced (depending on the roles picked) tends to have more players between the lines. Fluid is generally a 5 x 5 split IIRC

[interesti88]

Hate to say it but I'm done with Football Manager.

After so many years playing this great game I'm giving up, I bought this wonderful game to play MY way AND to have fun with it. But each match I play on FM13 I get frustrated and upset as to why my players seems to always play inconsistent and why the AI teams plays the same way each match, i.e. dribble down the flank cross score, dribble through the middle shoot score, nothing I do stops these insanely opportunistic goals. I really don't know what to say at the moment, I love this game but I can't see myself wasting any more hours on Football Manager 2013 even with this new fix or patch that is supposedly on its way.

At the moment I went back to FM12 on a save I really enjoyed and after a few weeks on that I'm going to get bored and finally say good-bye to Football Manager altogether. I'm not a whining person one bit and I'm not just blowing hot air. With that said I would like to thank Sports Interactive for making such a truly immense game over the years, I just wanted to let SI know as a customer I'm not satisfied with this year's FM but truly grateful for the previous 7 games they worked hard on to give to the masses to enjoy.

Good-bye SI

[soldierblue123]

I don;t know how anyone can lose their love for this great game. I understand the frustrations etc that people expereince but as far as football management games go FM is the simply the best.

[magicmastermind124]

This tends to be a cycle - I stopped playing for a while and got back into FM08. Since FM11 I haven't really been all that into the game.

Instead, I try to make the game better using the editor. SI doesn't like the way I do it but it doesn't stop me, and loads of people enjoy the releases I have collaborated on with others. While there is only so much that I can do to try and improve the game, I know that there are people who cannot play FM without this file. It's the same with player pics, dark skins etc.

So I would say to those who do not want to play FM (and I think we can all understand the frustrations around) to open up the editor or head over to a skinning or graphics website and help out other likeminded fans of the game to make it an even better experience, for once the game is good enough again for you to play, it will be even more amazing than ever.

[Goon14]

was in the same boat until found this V7 formation and modified it to how i want it...you should try it will give you a good base.

[Ninian Park 1910 - 2009]

it maybe the best because theres no-leading rival out there, i mean, they can get as sloppy as they want, and no-1 is really close to challenging them

[Guest Satchy]

People exploiting the match engine in previous versions - Don't call that sloppy.

FM13 with minimal ME exploits and the most realistic (albeit more challenging) FM yet - This is apparently the sloppy version.

I have to admit that FM13 made me rethink a number of things about how I was playing the game, but I think it's a brilliant game and my favorite FM to date, with the exception of the training schedules. Yes, it is a demanding game if you want to be successful, but that is what people who buy this kind of game are looking for. Once you've learned how to be successful in FM13 you should have no trouble being successful in previous or future versions without using exploits, because you'll have learned how to properly manage a squad and build a tactic. You can't just tick a slider now and put whatever player you want in that position and have them perform. I love that about this game. The ability to do that in previous versions is not really what football management is about, and if anything, that is what I would deem to be 'sloppy'.

Once they get a more refined and polished version of FMC up an running all will be well. Best of both worlds.

There is a great thread around here where a guy created a tactic called "The Box". I highly recommend people to read that story of going from frustration to satisfaction and success in FM13. I'm sure many of those in this thread can relate to his experience. I was just thinking recently about some of the videos he'd posted where his team plays beautiful triangular football and scores very nice goals. I'd considered giving it a go myself.

[Ninian Park 1910 - 2009]

hi guys, thought i'd give the game another go, thought okay maybe now all patches ect are done i'll come back and try....was going okay for the first 5 games, dominated possession, shots on goal ect, then went on a 18 match spree where i didnt win a single game. and scored only 3 goals. im cardiff mind, not sold anyone, not bought anyone. and used the basic 442, and changed nothing. sadly it for me has ruined fm. i enjoy playing older versions, building slow ect. but this has become a joke.

[BiggusD]

hi guys, thought i'd give the game another go, thought okay maybe now all patches ect are done i'll come back and try....was going okay for the first 5 games, dominated possession, shots on goal ect, then went on a 18 match spree where i didnt win a single game. and scored only 3 goals. im cardiff mind, not sold anyone, not bought anyone. and used the basic 442, and changed nothing. sadly it for me has ruined fm. i enjoy playing older versions, building slow ect. but this has become a joke.

Except you give no other information than that you are losing. I don't, and most other users don't go on 18 match no-win streaks scoring only three goals. That means something is horribly wrong and it is down to something you are doing. There is no such thing as "the basic 442". Do you mean the one the staff suggests you use when starting with Cardiff?

[Ninian Park 1910 - 2009]

the tactic that is already set up when i go cardiff. i been told to change nothing many times, so this time i changed nothing, kept the same starting tactic as thats there.

[BiggusD]

Yeah I started a new game just now and holidayed until 3rd of november with the "use selected tactic" ticked. This is how that went:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[BiggusD]

In other words; the tactic's fine! Sure it is on the defensive side of things mostly scraping one-goal wins but conceding 6 goals in 14 games is evidence of a tactic that's a solid foundation.

So your lack of success at FM13 is down to something else; since you haven't bought and sold players, the remaining of the three major aspects of this game is team talks/man management.

Firstly, have you chosen International Footballer as a starting reputation?

[Dark Demon]

hi guys, thought i'd give the game another go, thought okay maybe now all patches ect are done i'll come back and try....was going okay for the first 5 games, dominated possession, shots on goal ect, then went on a 18 match spree where i didnt win a single game. and scored only 3 goals. im cardiff mind, not sold anyone, not bought anyone. and used the basic 442, and changed nothing. sadly it for me has ruined fm. i enjoy playing older versions, building slow ect. but this has become a joke.

Tomtuck01 made a thread about the 442 formation he used and such, he played it with United but the basics still apply to any team that you use it with and you should probably give it a read:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/348899-The-Lion-The-Witch-And-The-DLP-Defend-A-4-4-2-Thread?highlight=Lion+witch

I'd suggest posting the problems that you are facing in the tactics and training forum, take a screenshot of the 442 tactic you are using/of your team instructions/anything else you think might be useful and the people there will be able to help you.