Need Advice Reading the Match Engine and Stats Correctly

[jayare35]

Hi all,

A little background – I am playing as Oxford City and currently reside in the BSP where we have been for the past 3 seasons. I feel that the team is regressing and before all is lost I thought I should seek advice to help me through.

First off, please let me apologize for the length of the post/posts. I wanted to make sure that I included as much information as possible so you could help me.

I have started watching a minimum of the first 20 minutes of each match. The problem is, I am unsure what I am looking is important and if my reaction to the information is the correct response to the situation at hand. I would like help to correct my mistakes and try to figure out the flaws in my tactical thought proccess.

Thank you in advance for any helpful advice you provide.

Match – Mansfield v Oxford City (A)

Here is my team tactic and set up:

Mansfield are using a 4-1-2-2-1 similar set up.

Next screen shot is of a Mansfield free kick in the 1st minute

I am pretty happy how my team is lined up defensively, as they dont have a lot of options. One area of concern is the striker sitting behind my DC, as he looks like is onside but it would have to be a perfect ball.

Next up is my team with the ball running in the opponents half.

I like the passing options my MC has to utilize, I do not like the area of my ST as he is crowding the ball carrier. Also there is a lot of space up just in behind for him to run into. I will have to keep an eye on this.

[jayare35]

So the next 3 screens are from me attacking in Mansfield's half.

1) Attacking throw in - you can see a 3 v 2 developing from the throw. This directly leads to a shot, but it is blocked and goes behind for a corner.

2) Our corner set up - they have one player staying forward.

3) They counter from our corner as we turn the ball over.

My response to what happened - Keep DM back on corners to help combat counter.

[jayare35]

Here is the next set of screens.

1) Goal Kick for us - I notice that their formation looks narrow - I will check this as a little bit of time passes

2) Defending - I like what I see from our defensive set up. They really have no options but to pass it backwards.

3) The next two screens are together as they are basically the same play. First we have options going forward but slow things down and pass back to my Anchor Man. As you can see in the second screen - he has no short options. The result of the play is turnover as he lumps it towards the right wing.

I see two things I do not like - one a long pass leading to a turnover, and my 3 attackers standing in line with their defenders.

Thoughts - instruct AM to pass shorter distance and drop one od my wide players to support.

I do nothing at this point as I wait a little longer for more information

[jayare35]

This screen shot shows another attacking play. I like where the RFB is positioned and has found some space. Again I do not like the fact that my three attackers are standing in line with their defenders.

Result - I immediately drop my AML back to support to hopefully find a bit more space and give me a little more attacking depth.

This one has me pressing a bit more. My Anchor Man presses high and creates space behind him. The result is nothing happens but a better team would have taken advantage of that mistake.

I am not sure how I would exactly correct that mistake. This is the first instance where he has been dragged so far out of position. I decide to do nothing.

This next screen shot is simple - ball is played back to a DC, he has 3 options to keep possession but decides to lump it upfield for a goal kick.

I am seriously thinking about changing a few specific players passing to the first notch of shorter on the slider. I will check the stats.

[jayare35]

So here are my stats at 15 minutes

After seeing this to back up what I have watched - I put DC and AM both on short passing

Here are the positional heatmaps

I think I was correct in seeing that Mansfield are playing narrow - I use the shouts - play Narrow and Exploit Flanks

And finally here are the match stats after 20 minutes

I am pleased with the amount of possession and passing stats. I am concerned that we are doing nothing with possession and we are not getting any shots on target.

Because of my last point I also use the work ball into box shout.

[jayare35]

So my questions are - am I reading the information correctly?

If not what am I missing and how do I correct it?

Is there any way to create more chances from the tactic I have implemented?

Note - I have completed the game and will let you know how I did when I can post screen shots at home.

Thank you for any advice.

[furiousuk]

I guess the most pressing question is - did you win? (if you said, sorry, I skim-read the last bit as I'm a bit pushed for time)

On top of whether you won - were you happy with how your team played?

If you won and were happy with the performance (infact, if you were happy with the performance regardless of result) then you're doing things right. It sounds to me like you're really analysing movement and space and I've found that is normally the best thing to do (particularly with FM where it is hard to judge motivation/body language etc).

I have a couple of questions/observations -

If you noticed your striker playing too deep and crowding the ball carrier what did you do? If it was me I'd happily stick him an attack duty to keep him higher up the pitch (watch to make sure he isn't isolated though, although that could be acceptable if it creates options elsewhere for you), this in turn will create space around their DM which gives him more to defend, if he's a poor decision maker this is good for you.

What changes (if any) did you make to your usual setup to challenge what the opposition were doing? 41221 is hard to break down.

You noticed they were playing narrow but this is often a good thing for a 41221 defensively as it strengthens an area you are already strong in, it's a bummer when the opposition does it because it makes them even harder to beat! Why did you play narrow against it? Trying to out-muscle/out-number them? No probs with that but why then focus down the flanks? I like going narrow and focus down the flanks but I wouldn't necessarily agree with it here (that's not to say I'm right, you're in a better position than me to comment because you've got your finger on the button). The 41221 is very stable through the middle so going 'around' it can be good, but I would probably have played wider to stretch out the DC's a little and create even more room around the DM to try and exploit.

What were your OI's like? My go-to option for playing a 41221 is to 'break' the DM. I like to put him under as much pressure as I can. If he has a stormer it is damn hard to beat this formation, even if you beat them everywhere else. Break the DM, break the formation. (caveat : there are different ways to utilise the DM in this formation, some ways have more bearing than others on what happens).

Sounds to me like you're doing the right things and doing them in the right way, which means you'll only get better as it. I like the way you play and it means that all of your real world knowledge is transferable to FM because you're looking at how the players are moving, reading the ME rather than just relying on stats (no probs checking stats like you're doing though) and making decisions based on what you see. If you want to read up on some more real life tactical stuff have you checked out zonalmarking yet? Loads of good tactical analysis over there - reading Michael's stuff over there has made me a much much better FM player than I was.

[jayare35]

I guess the most pressing question is - did you win? (if you said, sorry, I skim-read the last bit as I'm a bit pushed for time)

On top of whether you won - were you happy with how your team played?

If you won and were happy with the performance (infact, if you were happy with the performance regardless of result) then you're doing things right. It sounds to me like you're really analysing movement and space and I've found that is normally the best thing to do (particularly with FM where it is hard to judge motivation/body language etc).

First off, thank you for the reply furious.

I did not state if I had won - I did! 1-0, it ended up being from a cross and a header in off the near post. It was not an easy header as well.

So to answer your question - Was I happy with the way I played? Not a straight forward answer but leaning more towards yes than no, but let me explain.

Was I happy with the result - Yes, but not really important for this exercise. It is always nice to get a result.

Was I happy with possession? yes

Was I happy with passing? more or less yes

Was I happy with our defensive play? Yes

Was I happy with our attacking play? No

Was I happy with the chances we created? No

Was I happy with the number of shots? 50-50

Was I happy with the shot selection? No

Overall, I was playing away from home and really wanted to be tough to break down. I also wanted to make sure that we take the chances when we got them. Which I guess we did in the end.

A lot of the facts that I am using are from the stats at the end of the match - I will post screen shots tonight and comment on what I saw.

As for your comments/questions -

If you noticed your striker playing too deep and crowding the ball carrier what did you do? If it was me I'd happily stick him an attack duty to keep him higher up the pitch (watch to make sure he isn't isolated though, although that could be acceptable if it creates options elsewhere for you), this in turn will create space around their DM which gives him more to defend, if he's a poor decision maker this is good for you.

I like him more a support player bringing my winger and inside forward into the play a lot more - I had more of a problem with my three attackers standing in line with their defense. That was one situation where he could have used his movement to create space for himself and his team mates.

What changes (if any) did you make to your usual setup to challenge what the opposition were doing? 41221 is hard to break down.

I did this after analysis of the team report - I changed my DM to AM to give stability to my back line, also I changed one of my DC to cover as their striker has scored quite a bit for them. I also change my DLF Support to TM support based on my Strikers strengths. These changes are all made pre-match. I am still not sure how to change things quickly in game to create more potent attacks.

You noticed they were playing narrow but this is often a good thing for a 41221 defensively as it strengthens an area you are already strong in, it's a bummer when the opposition does it because it makes them even harder to beat! Why did you play narrow against it? Trying to out-muscle/out-number them? No probs with that but why then focus down the flanks? I like going narrow and focus down the flanks but I wouldn't necessarily agree with it here (that's not to say I'm right, you're in a better position than me to comment because you've got your finger on the button). The 41221 is very stable through the middle so going 'around' it can be good, but I would probably have played wider to stretch out the DC's a little and create even more room around the DM to try and exploit.

I'll give you my thought process based on the information I had - I played narrow to make sure we were not overrun in midfield and squeeze the space for them and narrow my DC's to give their striker even less room to operate between them. I exploited the flanks to create more of an impetus to go wide and get crosses in as I was very clearly not getting any joy attacking through the middle. Actually I was attacking poorly everywhere to be honest so I thought I may be able to make a few more chances out wide as there is more space there.

What were your OI's like? My go-to option for playing a 41221 is to 'break' the DM. I like to put him under as much pressure as I can. If he has a stormer it is damn hard to beat this formation, even if you beat them everywhere else. Break the DM, break the formation. (caveat : there are different ways to utilize the DM in this formation, some ways have more bearing than others on what happens).

I dont use OI's at all as sometimes I find my players doing illogical things like getting dragged way out of position - Your point is a good one though as I can see if the opposition has a quality DLP playing there it can cause trouble for me. What OI's to you use to break the DM?

I have read a bit from Zonal Marking but will delve a little deeper and see if anything new pops into my head.

I appreciate the comments as I said I have having trouble making adjustments in game to combat the opposition or to take advantage of something they are doing. I will post the final match stats from the game and include my comments.

[jayare35]

Here are the final stats from the game

I think the changes I made were beneficial in a sense. My DC and AM had better passing stats than when I made the change. My exploit the flanks seemed to work as I had more crosses but they were ineffective. Playing narrower did not allow them much space and therefore they created no chances.

Mistakes - I should have noticed his passing stats as they were dismal. The work ball into box was inneffective or had no effect to my reading of the stats. I did nothing to help my team create more chances.

I have tried to be as detailed as possible and have more screen shots if needed.

So my question is as follows - what could I have done to create more attacking chances in game?

[BiggusD]

I think you interpret information correctly.

Especially that part about your wingers and striker bouncing off the D-line without moving (note that this will likely improve in the next patch). This is crucial. It means that by the time the runs of your forwards are finished, the pass or cross has still not come. This explains the rather poor shot conversion. 1 in 10 is really bad and means that you're not creating big chances. Although 1 goal in 1 on target is very good...

The tempo and passing settings are not "lining up" with the forward runs. The problem is that using the TC you do not have full control over that, so what you need to do is likely to set your wingers to support duty so that they time their runs better. Either that or go to a more direct passing style. Experiment with Tempo, passing and forward runs

[furiousuk]

Tactically you're not far off at all, and certainly your thought processes are spot on, it's simply a matter of adding some more tools to your toolbox and that just happens through experience. Keep analysing and making those decisions, some you'll get wrong (everyone does) but you'll learn because you're analysing and you're making logical choices based on what you see, and you're even supplementing that info with info from the stats too. All spot on.

Breaking the DM - Firstly, check out the thread by Heath on a little bit of media manipulation of opposing players (I created a thread on this too without seeing Heath's one! Doh! Heath's has got a load of comments and discussion with it, worth skimming over). It's a dirty tactic but if the situation calls for it then it can be extremely effective. Beyond that I tend to tackle hard, close down often and show onto weaker foot. If the guy is very technical then closing down hard may not be a great option and it will depend on your players too. If your ST has a bit of rounding to his game then he could man-mark him to try and keep him quiet. Usually though I find one of my MC's flies at him and puts him under pressure, my DM then fills the gap and ensures that it isn't too easy for them in midfield (you have to watch it because a very technical midfield can play around your MC flying forward towards their DM).

Often though this is sufficient. Even if they play a Makelele type player in there he'll kick start a lot of the good stuff they do, if he hurries and rushes the pass and messes it up (or just panics and hoofs it) then that is one attack you now don't have to worry about.

Breaking the 41221 - So you're not doing a lot wrong by playing down the flanks. The weakness the 41221 has are the seams between DC and FB and in behind adventurous FB's (it is possible to play through the middle with the right formation (usually 4231 or 4312) but it isn't easy). So playing down the flanks is good, getting crosses in is good but you're not really playing the formation to exploit it. However, if you go one winger, one IF (like you are) the IF becomes a 2nd striker arriving later which is good. In older FM's (despite a general complaint about crossing) the opposite IF could get loads of headed goals by arriving late but it's still not the greatest tactic, unless nothing else is working. But, it worked for you because that headed goal was the winner.

The only way to beat this formation through the middle (unless you get lucky or have an incredible player do something incredible) is with movement. Lots of movement. Usual accompanied by packing the area with numbers too. The 4231 or 4312 I mentioned above potentially has 6 players operating in this space. If you have the technique and the movement then this is possible and can be effective. Bit of a sledgehammer approach as you're throwing numbers at the situation and just out-muscling them (through technical play) where they are strongest but it does work. Just requires great players.

My usual employ is to use 2 IF's, keep my STR high, play wider and increase through balls. The idea is that I stretch them with width, creating gaps in the backline and then thread balls through those gaps to my 3 aggressive attackers who are making runs. I pick speed and anticipation up front and some creativity in midfield. I still like to have some muscle in midfield too because I need to win that battle. I'll then pick storming FB's to give me some additional width when my build-up is slow (it'll normally be quite quick though). I'll often increase passing length (get ball forward) and often drop deeper to make the pitch larger, draw their defence out and then create more room to play in behind. Dropping deep potentially creates room for their DM and widemen so it's a trade-off. If I'm in the lead I'll play a little higher - despite limiting my counter-attacks a little it hampers their offensive efforts, leads to frustration then I can play from their mistakes.

[jayare35]

Thanks for the response, every scrap of info helps me.

The tempo and passing settings are not "lining up" with the forward runs. The problem is that using the TC you do not have full control over that, so what you need to do is likely to set your wingers to support duty so that they time their runs better. Either that or go to a more direct passing style. Experiment with Tempo, passing and forward runs

I will test a few things out to see if I can break through in a game like this.

Furious - I will definitely try to put their DM under huge amounts of pressure - playing in the BSP, the technically gifted players are few and far between. I should be OK to get my players to close him down quickly.

I played a few games after this one - played well at home but again I played against a 4-1-2-2-1 away. I got absolutely battered by them and came out looking second best. Again never really creating any real chances. I had a header from a set piece to get my only half chance. They also ripped me apart out wide and through the middle, If it wasn't for my GK it may well have been 5 or 6 - 0.

Away from home i try to keep compact and be tough to break down, last result not withstanding. Usually leads to quite close games most times ending in 0-0 draw or a loss. The 1-0 victory, above, is the exception.

So from the information that I have laid out - would you think the following shouts would be applicable to create a few more potent attacks against the 4-1-2-2-1:

Play Wider and Run at defense? Also would hit early crosses work if both my TM and IF were set up as attacking?

Furious - I have read Heath's thread, it was interesting but I have not gone full bore into this as of yet. Maybe I will start.

I also read a great thread - Creating a Potent Tactical System by some anonymous poster! It was a great help as well.

[5uare2]

jayare35, I know you're focusing on attacking stuff from the match engine, but just a small thing I noticed with your defensive setup - putting the RCB on Cover with the RB as an attacking fullback can potentially leave a lot of space for the opposition to exploit in that channel, especially after what furious said about the 4-1-2-2-1's natural weakness in the space between fullbacks and centre-backs. It might be worth giving your LCB the Cover duty, and having the RCB as the standard Defend duty.

[jayare35]

jayare35, I know you're focusing on attacking stuff from the match engine, but just a small thing I noticed with your defensive setup - putting the RCB on Cover with the RB as an attacking fullback can potentially leave a lot of space for the opposition to exploit in that channel, especially after what furious said about the 4-1-2-2-1's natural weakness in the space between fullbacks and centre-backs. It might be worth giving your LCB the Cover duty, and having the RCB as the standard Defend duty.

Noted, maybe the reason I was so easily ripped apart the last game and that never occurred to me. Thank you for the feedback.

[dooro23]

You're doing an excellent job of analyzing your tactics, thought this information might help you with the passing issues you mentioned: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/193921-difference-between-direct-and-short-pass?p=4932721&viewfull=1#post4932721

Post #14 of the above link as well.

[jayare35]

Here are a few screen shot of my 3-1 loss to Ebbsfleet (A) - They are a lot stronger than I am and currently sit in 2nd place. The were playing a 4-1-2-2-1.

I know it is not a tonne of information but that these would be sufficient. I went back and watched some of the match highlights to see if I missed anything.

5uare2 - you were right, two of their goals were created by their ST and CM exploiting the space cause by my DC cover and FB A. I did not put this together and couldn't adjust as I did not understand where that space was created.

My passing was awful - but i think I was under a lot of pressure or I had a lack of options so my players did the smart thing and got it way from my goal.

I made a bunch of changes and came back into the game a bit by the end and managed to nick a goal. My passing stats really increased the last 20 minutes as they sat back and tried to absorb and counter. For the first 70 minutes they really battered my as I said. Pressed all over the field and made me turn the ball over. I think until that time we had maybe 35% possession and just over 60% passing - and that is if I am being generous. Most of my shots came on one sequence as well. I also did not "break the DM" as Furious suggested.

I had a Balanced/Counter system with direct passing - after about 15 minutes I used Play out of Defense shout. I also had Stand off to help keep my shape. As I said they dominated and were really battering me with shots, tackles, possession...and so on.

If I were to take Play out of defense off and change to Push higher up, Hassle opponents, get stuck in, would that have made a difference to my team being under so much pressure?

[olivermain83]

I'm having the same problems as you it seems in trying to spot what's going wrong and then, more importantly, make changes to improve my performances so know you're not alone.

One thing i've noticed on my game, when trying understand and use shouts, is that work ball into box reduces longsouts but also reduces crosses so I don't use it anymore. I could be wrong about this as I was using a few shouts when i noticed my FB(A) crossing had gone to mixed but It sort of makes sense with the shout.

Just thought i'd mention it as it might reduce chances by preventing wide players crossing as much to your TM.

A good thread, will be trying to break the DM now too. I'd never thought of that. I always struggle against 41221 & 4321 so some good tips.

Good luck.

[jayare35]

Olivermain83 - Breaking the DM has been key in some of my games...others not so much! However, when coupled using Heathxxx's media mindgames, it can be devastating to the opposing DM. In one of my games the DM was subbed at half time because of poor play.

Work ball into box shout - I have not noticed a reduction of crosses when using this shout. I think it just reduces your long shots to rarely. But I have not specifically looked into this changing my fullback's crossing instructions.

I have finally experienced a team parking the proverbial "bus" in one of my games. I actually paused my game and re-read this thread - Creating a Potent Tactical System it helped me figure out how to create space for my team to exploit and try to break them down. I will post some screens to show how I actually managed to do this in game.