Jump to content

How on earth can we stop things like this happening?


Recommended Posts

I can understand sometimes why people think the game is fixed in the AI's favour. Home against Chelsea. 1-0 up and to be fair they didn't really have a sniff. I wasn't concerned and when I nipped their seemingly last attack (93rd minute) in the bud and with my counter attack on it seemed I was certainly favourites to at least hold on. Yet Diarra with a dribbling stat of 8 decides to dribble away like Messi from danger. Fair enough, but he seems to ignore better options and then yep, he passes it back to the keeper despite his other stats of composure 15, Concentration 13 and Decisions 13. Ok not on the high side but it gets worse. My keeper, Ospina, with relatively good stats of composure 15, concentration 15, kicking 16 and decisions 14 inexplicably just hoofs it to no one in particular and it goes straight to Ben Arfa who with stats of finishing 11, long shots 14 and decisions 11 belts it beautifully straight back and rescues Chelsea a point.

Here is the link.

Now fair enough Diarra's decision stat isn't high but I think there is a very disproportionate amount of back passes for no real reason in this ME. He has through balls on mixed but fails to take any early options to pass. Even so Ospina's composure, kicking and concentration alone should make him a bit less likely to do this. Whilst I understand the odd rush of blood and the fact that "bizarre things happen in football" you rarely if ever see it the other way around.

I wouldn't mind so much if this hadn't happened two minutes earlier when Nolan with heading 17, decisions 18, composure 16 and finishing 15 heads clear over the bar with an open goal!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand sometimes why people think the game is fixed in the AI's favour. Home against Chelsea. 1-0 up and to be fair they didn't really have a sniff. I wasn't concerned and when I nipped their seemingly last attack (93rd minute) in the bud and with my counter attack on it seemed I was certainly favourites to at least hold on. Yet Diarra with a dribbling stat of 8 decides to dribble away like Messi from danger. Fair enough, but he seems to ignore better options and then yep, he passes it back to the keeper despite his other stats of composure 15, Concentration 13 and Decisions 13. Ok not on the high side but it gets worse. My keeper, Ospina, with relatively good stats of composure 15, concentration 15, kicking 16 and decisions 14 inexplicably just hoofs it to no one in particular and it goes straight to Ben Arfa who with stats of finishing 11, long shots 14 and decisions 11 belts it beautifully straight back and rescues Chelsea a point.

Here is the link.

Now fair enough Diarra's decision stat isn't high but I think there is a very disproportionate amount of back passes for no real reason in this ME. He has through balls on mixed but fails to take any early options to pass. Even so Ospina's composure, kicking and concentration alone should make him a bit less likely to do this. Whilst I understand the odd rush of blood and the fact that "bizarre things happen in football" you rarely if ever see it the other way around.

I wouldn't mind so much if this hadn't happened two minutes earlier when Nolan with heading 17, decisions 18, composure 16 and finishing 15 heads clear over the bar with an open goal!!

This could probably be explained with - these things happen in football. Sometimes players miss goals they would score 99 times out of 100, and sometimes rubbish players score screamers. It's football.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to stoke the fire, but mistakes do happen in Football, it is part of the game. Furthermore players do not always live up to expectations especially in the heat of battle when some players can melt. The problem it seems to me on this game is it always seems to be mistakes that look very similar in nature, i've seen this type of goal scored numerous times.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You could try screaming at your screen, see if that helps? :p

In all seriousness tho, i think the backpass thing is being looked at, i dont see an issue with the Nolan miss tho.

I see an issue though with so many headers going over the bar or hit the woodwork. Don't think I have ever seen a player head the ball downwards. Previous patch headers were actually quite good but I don't know if they were too effective so were adjusted.

And yes I accept that mistakes are part of football. It's just a pity that rarely applies to the AI !!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I see an issue though with so many headers going over the bar or hit the woodwork. Don't think I have ever seen a player head the ball downwards. Previous patch headers were actually quite good but I don't know if they were too effective so were adjusted.

And yes I accept that mistakes are part of football. It's just a pity that rarely applies to the AI !!!

Would you come on here and post about an AI mistake like that tho ;)

I honestly havent noticed more missed headers since the patch, but i dont usually play with a big target man now, so i wouldnt come across it as much as your likely too with Nolan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Would you come on here and post about an AI mistake like that tho ;)

I honestly havent noticed more missed headers since the patch, but i dont usually play with a big target man now, so i wouldnt come across it as much as your likely too with Nolan.

Nearly did actually the other day!! A rare error it has to be said but it was nice to see!!

Anyway it's not so much the header but the catalogue of events leading to Chelsea's equalizer. Every goal scored in history there is a mistake in there somewhere I understand that but for what's the point of stats if a player behaviour is just random?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I don't think your goalie is really to blame there. He gets a really stupid backpass, your CBs are chilling at the midline (you play with a super high line?) and your FBs still seem to be waiting for a pass from Diarra or something, while your goalie has two strikers charging at him. No matter how composed a goalie is I don't think he can do much more than hoof it somewhere up field. Ben Arfa then has an open goal, so while his finishing isn't that great I don't think getting the ball on target (since he has an open goal that's all he needs to do) should really be an issue. That backpass on the other hand. Yeah, can't say anything about that.

Imo the defenders behaviour after you reclaim the ball really needs to be looked at. They tend to rush upfield far too fast, while the opposition attackers are still near your goal. I've seen it often enough that one player has the ball near his own area, your defenders run back to their positions (even without playing a very high line) and a broken up attack suddenly turns into a 3-1/4-1 situation with your player often left no choice but to hoof it upfield if he doesn't want to give it away.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with "it's football" is the frequency with which these kinds of things happen. It is being looked at in the ME updates, from what I can tell.

Right now this game is in a really bad place. Let's hope the ME changes make it playable. It's not very much fun to watch full matches right now. It's like all players have no brain.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I don't think your goalie is really to blame there. He gets a really stupid backpass, your CBs are chilling at the midline (you play with a super high line?) and your FBs still seem to be waiting for a pass from Diarra or something, while your goalie has two strikers charging at him. No matter how composed a goalie is I don't think he can do much more than hoof it somewhere up field. Ben Arfa then has an open goal, so while his finishing isn't that great I don't think getting the ball on target (since he has an open goal that's all he needs to do) should really be an issue. That backpass on the other hand. Yeah, can't say anything about that.

Imo the defenders behaviour after you reclaim the ball really needs to be looked at. They tend to rush upfield far too fast, while the opposition attackers are still near your goal. I've seen it often enough that one player has the ball near his own area, your defenders run back to their positions (even without playing a very high line) and a broken up attack suddenly turns into a 3-1/4-1 situation with your player often left no choice but to hoof it upfield if he doesn't want to give it away.

How about launching the ball out of play? Why do goalies never just launch the ball into row z?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I don't think your goalie is really to blame there. He gets a really stupid backpass, your CBs are chilling at the midline (you play with a super high line?) and your FBs still seem to be waiting for a pass from Diarra or something, while your goalie has two strikers charging at him. No matter how composed a goalie is I don't think he can do much more than hoof it somewhere up field. Ben Arfa then has an open goal, so while his finishing isn't that great I don't think getting the ball on target (since he has an open goal that's all he needs to do) should really be an issue. That backpass on the other hand. Yeah, can't say anything about that.

Imo the defenders behaviour after you reclaim the ball really needs to be looked at. They tend to rush upfield far too fast, while the opposition attackers are still near your goal. I've seen it often enough that one player has the ball near his own area, your defenders run back to their positions (even without playing a very high line) and a broken up attack suddenly turns into a 3-1/4-1 situation with your player often left no choice but to hoof it upfield if he doesn't want to give it away.

Agreed but I'm playing a relatively deep defensive line but with counter attack. Couldn't agree more that defenders behaviour needs to be looked at !! ;-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed... My players have so far, in my 14 games in charge, gifted the ball to the opposition to leave their player one on one with my goalkeeper 6 times... Once or twice in a season, ok, not this amount of times. However, it seems as though this may be being looked at for the next update... Fingers crossed. Because its not enjoyable at the minute.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would assume this will be looked at because it's a big issue.

A few tweaks here and there can throw it out and create "super dribblers"

I would assume also its easy to test if a problem is fixed but harder to find other issues that fix has thrown up. For all we know the next patch could throw up a super tactic or super markers.

I feel that they should keep new features to a minimum in 2014 and work on the match engine, animations, mefia/player interaction. Just for one year offer 2014 for £20 if already owned 2013 or full price if not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed but I'm playing a relatively deep defensive line but with counter attack. Couldn't agree more that defenders behaviour needs to be looked at !! ;-)
D-line should be responsible for defense positioning only. The behaviour above is indeed either high mentality settings or counter attack ticked.

Without knowing any of the tactical settings or other circumstances, I don't think that goal is thaaaaat odd and there can be a number of reasons behind it (ME balancing issues as well as tactical issues, can't rule anything out based on the bit of information). It's nevertheless harsh, dramatic & bad luck, but "you rarely if ever see it the other way around. " might be an indicator that the human player is doing something differently than the AI, as the ME doesn't differentiate.

Especially if someone says he's seen it 6 times in 14 games, when I can't recall more than one roughly similar occasion in 17 seasons...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol i was more then obvious that somebody will come with conclusion like "that's your tactics" :)

Especially if someone says he's seen it 6 times in 14 games, when I can't recall more than one roughly similar occasion in 17 seasons

I had season when literally i saw this nearly in two/three matches cycle...sometimes ended with a goal sometimes I was lucky and they missed volleys form half of the pitch....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol i was more then obvious that somebody will come with conclusion like "that's your tactics" :)

I had season when literally i saw this nearly in two/three matches cycle...sometimes ended with a goal sometimes I was lucky and they missed volleys form half of the pitch....

What else is it then, if you see it regularly and I don't?
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's fair to blame this one on the player (not the player in the game, the player in real life).

No matter what your tactics are, this is not a realistic sequence of events. The player running with the ball would not have made a 50 yard back pass to a keeper in pressure.... and even if he did, that keeper would have launched the ball out of play instead of right to an opposing player.

In this game, if you go defensive late in the game, you're likely to concede. You have to maintain some level of pressure or you WILL give up a goal. And even if time wasting was really high, that just means more back passes and a greater chance of someone gifting the ball directly to an opponent.

IMO, after hundreds of hours watching the ME, there are too many bad decisions due to pressure (not closing down pressure, but match pressure). Yes, sometimes people screw up under pressure. I just think it's currently way overtuned.

I think it's silly that people are trying to take what happened in the video in the OP of this thread, and blame it on the person playing the game. If you have mitigate an issue where your players are acting this incredibly dumb, then there's something wrong with the game. Period.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand sometimes why people think the game is fixed in the AI's favour. Home against Chelsea. 1-0 up and to be fair they didn't really have a sniff. I wasn't concerned and when I nipped their seemingly last attack (93rd minute) in the bud and with my counter attack on it seemed I was certainly favourites to at least hold on. Yet Diarra with a dribbling stat of 8 decides to dribble away like Messi from danger. Fair enough, but he seems to ignore better options and then yep, he passes it back to the keeper despite his other stats of composure 15, Concentration 13 and Decisions 13. Ok not on the high side but it gets worse. My keeper, Ospina, with relatively good stats of composure 15, concentration 15, kicking 16 and decisions 14 inexplicably just hoofs it to no one in particular and it goes straight to Ben Arfa who with stats of finishing 11, long shots 14 and decisions 11 belts it beautifully straight back and rescues Chelsea a point.

no doubt ME needs updateing, but how many times people just neglect the game is horrendous.

I think the bolded is your problem here. you were one up against a side you should be winning easily, that was the media prediction is my wild guess. youre indeed up by a goal comes the end of game and did you do anything to play safer? did you go to time wasting, playing safer ?

od did you just think the game is won what the heck?

It's 2014 in the game and I'm West Ham against Chelsea so clearly not a game I am supposed to be winning easily even though I am at home!!! You can't lock horns against most of the bigger sides, I've tried it and most of the time it doesn't happen. No idea about the media as I never bother with them but I can certainly suspect a West Ham win against Chelsea wasn't their way of thinking. I'm playing a 4-3-2-1 formation to counter their 4-2-3-1 and have a reasonably low defensive line but it's not deep by any means. I have counter attack on but just above half way on my time wasting slider. Your right as you point out in bold I wasn't over concerned. I wasn't under any real pressure, there were no warnings from my Assistant and I didn't get the commentary telling me I am holding on for dear life. Whilst not totally in control, which you will never be against Chelsea I was not as I said majorly concerned.

Without any warning signs what would you do?? If I decide to make a major change, drop deeper, whack up timewasting, play safer as you put it and conceded this goal some people would probably say "well it's your own fault for changing it if things were going ok!!" How many times IRL do we see teams getting deeper and deeper and losing games because of that. I was in a good situation with my counter attack on and could have nicked another on the break. In the clip the team actually defends the Chelsea attack brilliantly. A well won header straight to Diarra who dribbles away. The issue here is at the very start of his dribble there are several passing options open to him. You can actually see that it looks like my striker halts his run because a pass doesn't come. He then has any one of several options. Hoof it down the line, try and play a corner off the defender, hoof it into Row Z or try and carry on dribbling. If he had done any of those and a Chelsea player had nicked possession or they score from the resulting throw in then fine, it happens, but he makes a ridiculous pass back that shouldn't even be an option you would think of. The keeper who has as I said stats of composure 15, concentration 15, kicking 16 and decisions 14 makes a right ricket. There are too many bad decisions in a small space of time.

It can't be my tactics because it doesn't happen throughout the season although Ospina has previous with his kicking which is odd because his throwing was bloody awful so I changed it so he only kicks it!!! Other occasions were a lovely tippy tappy passing exhibition between Ospina and Tomkins which was bizarre because it was happening midway in their own half which and was intercepted and a goal resulted. And another was Ospina arguing on the half way line with a Referee as the resulting free kick sailed over his head into an empty net. A few rather bizarre examples below.

Made worse by fact Olsson has free kick stat of 4 and finishing 5...

Now surely these must all be ME related unless my keepers have got a hidden stat which says "be a prat to gift the game a couple of times a season"!! And if you want to get down to real conspiracy theory then in order of the above the outcomes of the matches were.

WBA Lost 0-1. Goal was winner.

Man City Lost 1-2 Goal was winner

Leverkausen Lost 0-3 Goal was first goal

WBA Drew 1-1 Goal was equalizer

Everton Lost 0-1 Goal was winner

Now as I say if it happened every week then it could I agree be a tactical issue and you would make changes accordingly, unless of course having my keeper on low creative freedom does it, but bar that surely there isn't a tactical solution in the world you could stop any of these from happening. If you do have ways of avoiding it I'm all ears!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the first one i think there are 3-4 issues, two I would certainly put down to the ME, but one or two that may be tactical, i''m not sure. In truth I wouldnt have even come to GD with the first one, straight to the bugs section with a PKM.

Nothing wrong with the second though.

Sussex were you playing a high line?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the first one i think there are 3-4 issues, two I would certainly put down to the ME, but one or two that may be tactical, i''m not sure.

Nothing wrong with the second though

Sussex were you playing a high line?

No rarely play a high line these days. Always mid range or slightly deeper.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No rarely play a high line these days. Always mid range or slightly deeper.

The two issues that I have there that I personally would say are ME issues

1) The centre back does not move over and offer you an out ball. Diarra has to go back to the keeper because playing at square ball across is suicidal and he is absolutely right to ignore that.

2) Keeper should be able to see the players advancing on him. This is not a massive pressure kick, he could have taken a quick (maybe difficult) touch and picked someone out, for some reason or another he takes a very heavy touch (technically that could happen) but then starts dribbling out? ( that shouldnt be happening). As a result he totally plays himself into pressure, and is then forced to make a pressure kick (nothing, personally, buggy about the kick just unlucky that he picks out Ben arfa)

The reason I asked if you were playing a high line is that you are very advanced up the pitch, but also quite compact. Fluid mentality?

Also what instructions does your RB have, and what are his PPMS. Because he has no intention of supporting Diarra, but purely intends to get into the most attacking position possible.

In short, its a buggy goal and should be uploaded. Although given the version the ME is at in testing, probably could be one to chalk off and wait for the update

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've experienced an alarming frequency of 'keepers coming out, clearing it straight to the opposition and a 40+ yard shot going in or flying just wide. This has been an issue for me on the last 2-3 updates, not just the current.

I think the root cause of the issue is players who get the ball near the side line (ie - in the full back position) seem to always look to clear the ball into the middle of the pitch. Full backs do it a lot when they get caught in possession, rather than clearing it out of play or down the line. In your example, any 'keeper that late in the game would punt it down the line and/or out of play. Playing it into the middle of the pitch is madness yet it seems to be the default play.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The two issues that I have there that I personally would say are ME issues

1) The centre back does not move over and offer you an out ball. Diarra has to go back to the keeper because playing at square ball across is suicidal and he is absolutely right to ignore that.

2) Keeper should be able to see the players advancing on him. This is not a massive pressure kick, he could have taken a quick (maybe difficult) touch and picked someone out, for some reason or another he takes a very heavy touch (technically that could happen) but then starts dribbling out? ( that shouldnt be happening). As a result he totally plays himself into pressure, and is then forced to make a pressure kick (nothing, personally, buggy about the kick just unlucky that he picks out Ben arfa)

The reason I asked if you were playing a high line is that you are very advanced up the pitch, but also quite compact. Fluid mentality?

Also what instructions does your RB have, and what are his PPMS. Because he has no intention of supporting Diarra, but purely intends to get into the most attacking position possible.

In short, its a buggy goal and should be uploaded. Although given the version the ME is at in testing, probably could be one to chalk off and wait for the update

Chandler is the full back. Average stats and no PPM's but he bombs forward because of the counter attack. The whole team do but that's the issue because the pass doesn't arrive. Not sure on the fluid mentality as I play Classic but I always keep it narrower against top opposition, hence being compact. If they had a stat for vision and that was low in Diarra's case I could understand it but looking at his form he has an 85% pass completion rate and 1 mistake in 11 games that has led to a goal which I assume this one is. He also has a high influence level so is a leader. This isn't an inexperienced youngster who panicked. Oddly enough and I never noticed this before but there is no stat for communication in an outfield player which I must say is very strange unless it's hidden because communication is a very big part of football. Ospina's is high but as I say no way to check what Diarra's communication is like.

I agree with City and Colour. A lot of "panicked" balls by keepers and defenders, certainly full backs are just pumped up the pitch at times.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the issue is, if a player is trapped by the sideline and is forced into a 'panicked' clearance, they should be hitting it out of play or down the line. Often they almost seem to go out of their way to play it back into the middle of the pitch.

I posted an example of this in the bugs forum a few months ago, and was told it was because the full back was forced onto his weaker foot, which didn't really make any sense as he still had the opportunity to go down the line or out of play. Likewise in your example, there is absolutely no reason for him to play it where he does. When he receives the ball he is angling towards the nearest sideline, and even if he is closed down there's no reason for him to turn and play it back into the middle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Chandler is the full back. Average stats and no PPM's but he bombs forward because of the counter attack. The whole team do but that's the issue because the pass doesn't arrive. Not sure on the fluid mentality as I play Classic but I always keep it narrower against top opposition, hence being compact. If they had a stat for vision and that was low in Diarra's case I could understand it but looking at his form he has an 85% pass completion rate and 1 mistake in 11 games that has led to a goal which I assume this one is. He also has a high influence level so is a leader. This isn't an inexperienced youngster who panicked. Oddly enough and I never noticed this before but there is no stat for communication in an outfield player which I must say is very strange unless it's hidden because communication is a very big part of football. Ospina's is high but as I say no way to check what Diarra's communication is like.

I agree with City and Colour. A lot of "panicked" balls by keepers and defenders, certainly full backs are just pumped up the pitch at times.

"creativity" can be thought of as "vision" in some ways. But I think the key point here is that a bad decision is made, by multiple players, whose decent decision attributes are being overridden by either a) counter-attack being ticked, which causes players to behave in an exceptionally attacking way sometimes, or b) because they're under pressure, and the effect of pressure is overtuned.

If you peruse through the tactic downloads forums here and elsewhere, you'll see that alot of the most popular tactics are counter-attacking; the reason IMO is because with counter attack ticked, the first or second player to get the ball usually turns and runs (and the poor defending against dribbling is a key flaw in this ME), and essentially every player with any semblance of run from deep bombs forward, usually to the point of taking themselves out of the play when the ball is lost.

I think people are resorting to this because of the lack of through ball attempts and quality of passes in general. But anyway, all of these things add up to what you saw in your match; "counter" doesn't quite work as one would naturally assume, and decisions made under pressure are exceptionally terrible. Hopefully this will be fixed relatively soon.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...