timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 As usual, was playing along quite happily and then along came the patch and ruined everything. Please tell me how to get rid of patch 13.3.2, I wish to revert back to 13.2.2 Steam is incredibly annoying. Despite my setting it to 'not automatically update' because I knew it would balls my game up, it still did it! I'd appreciate your help in this SI. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Short answer, you don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 I was afraid that might be the answer. If that is the case then my next question is to SI. Why? Why can't you? Please answer this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Just for future reference, 'Do not update this game automatically' does not stop Steam updating the game, it only makes it wait until you launch the game. The only way to stop it updating is to put it into offline mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Thanks John, I've now learnt that to my cost. What kind of system is that?!?!?!?!? That being the case there should be a way of deleting it. Feels like I've been ambushed. Not happy about it. So am I right in thinking that I will almost certainly have to delete the entire game and associated folders and install a fresh version? But if that is the case how do I stop it automatically updating to 13.3.2 when it installs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar2010 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 You can't. You get the latest version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 There's been a lot of internet debate over the years about why Steam doesn't let you stop automatic updates, most people seem to think it's publishers that don't want it, rather than Valve, as it gives them less control. To be fair to SI, they probably have had little input into such things, the piracy protection and ease of updating probably outweigh the negatives for them. edit: Like Cougar2010 said, if you delete and reinstall it will automatically give you the latest version. There is absolutely nothing you can do to go back to the previous patch. Unless you know a friend that has an older version, you could play at their house... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Not that I don't trust you guys, I'm sure you're correct but I'm still waiting to hear from SI on this. If this is the case then I'd like SI to tell me why I cannot at least delete a patch. Surely they could put this option in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 They can't, Steam doesn't cater for it. Still, wait for an official response if you like. Extend the disappointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 As the developer SI probably have to defer to the publisher [sega] on all matters relating to distribution, I doubt Maxis would have gone down the route that EA took with Sim City but they had to deal with the decision made higher up the corporate ladder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Ha! Yeah. Nevermind that you paid your money, have been for year after year (20+), but do they even deign to answer a question? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 As the developer SI probably have to defer to the publisher [sega] on all matters relating to distribution, I doubt Maxis would have gone down the route that EA took with Sim City but they had to deal with the decision made higher up the corporate ladder. That doesn't answer the question of why you can't delete a patch though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 How about it's probably easier to manage any issues that people log in the bugs section, if people are using older versions & post about bugs or technical issues that have been fixed on the current version then that is using up resources that could be better used elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 How about it's probably easier to manage any issues that people log in the bugs section, if people are using older versions & post about bugs or technical issues that have been fixed on the current version then that is using up resources that could be better used elsewhere. I don't understand what you just said. It's all in English and individually the words make sense but when put together...nope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Example: You are using a patch that is 3 versions out of date. Your game keeps crashing so you post in the bugs section but forget to mention that you've rolled back to an earlier version. Someone from SI has to take the time to reply to your thread & have a message board conversation with you. You then upload a copy of your save that a tester &/or coder from SI will have to take time investigating the issue you raised. They then discover that you're not using the most recent code & if you had the crash would not have happened. The time taken to investigate your issue costs money & of course takes people away from dealing with issues on the most recent version while they hunt down a bug that has already been fixed. This of course is all an assumption on what could be one of the reasons for not allowing patch roll-backs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 ^ What Barside said. And you are stuck with this patch, I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Excellent. What Barside said has nothing to do with what I asked. And I cannot believe that there is no way to solve this. If that is the case then that can only be SI's decision. Why can't you decide what patch you want in the same way that you can decide on a database? Game ruined for me. Thanks. Don't suppose there's any chance of a refund? Nah, thought not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Its everything to do with what you asked, it makes life easier for the devs if everyone is using the same version of the game, because if you report a bug thats already fixed because your not playing the most up to date version then your wasting everyone's time. No patch deleting, no refund. /thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Excellent. What Barside said has nothing to do with what I asked. And I cannot believe that there is no way to solve this. If that is the case then that can only be SI's decision. Why can't you decide what patch you want in the same way that you can decide on a database? Game ruined for me. Thanks. Don't suppose there's any chance of a refund? Nah, thought not. How, exactly, is the game ruined for you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Excellent. What Barside said has nothing to do with what I asked. And I cannot believe that there is no way to solve this. If that is the case then that can only be SI's decision. Why can't you decide what patch you want in the same way that you can decide on a database? Game ruined for me. Thanks. Don't suppose there's any chance of a refund? Nah, thought not. Your first question was "can I revert?" Answer, no. Your second question was "why not?" Barside answered that. There's no chance of a refund because the game is working as intended. You just can't win anymore. Now, you could choose to moan about this or you could choose to learn how to play a little better. Which is it to be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 It is ruined for me because I do not have the time to continually tweak and watch, tweak and watch. I had a very nice balance on 13.2 - it was far from an all conquering tactic but it was a tactic that I had faith in. A tactic that I adapted from one I downloaded. Since the patch that tactic has just fallen to pieces. What annoys me incredibly is the nonsense that people on the forums have been saying for years, that to create a tactic you should follow the rules just like in real life. Well, every time a patch comes out the ME changes and what makes a tactic work changes. Obviously creating a tactic is not about 'real life' at all but about exposing the flaws of the ME. BUT, and here is the problem, how can I have faith in the tactic creation system when every time a patch comes out, what makes a tactic work changes. So am I now expected to just just start a whole new process of experimentation to discover the new ME flaws? And I refer you to my original simple question - why can't I choose which patch I want to play on? Wwfan - I offer this as an answer to you. Learning to play 'better' is just finding the flaws in the new ME. It's not about winning or not winning. It's about having to go through another arbitrary process to find a tactic I have faith in. And Barside did not answer my question at all. Having what patch I play on dictated to me is a fair complaint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooro23 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Learning to play 'better' is just finding the flaws in the new ME. Only true if you don't know how to play the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Only true if you don't know how to play the game. How can you learn to 'play the game' if every time a patch comes out the rules change? So I have to learn how to play a slightly different game every time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 And I refer you to my original simple question - why can't I choose which patch I want to play on? Because of what Barside said. How are you not getting this? Wwfan - I offer this as an answer to you. Learning to play 'better' is just finding the flaws in the new ME. That's one way. The other way is to apply genuine football logic. I have followed exactly the same logic since FM07 and have done equally as well on every FM and on every patch since then. I can directly relate every decision I make back to real life tactical theory and understand exactly why I am making each one. I'm by no means the only person who does this. The amount of nonsense I read on these and other forums about tactics only ever working because of ME flaws and the ME not allowing logical tactics to succeed is breathtaking. Yes, MEs can be exploited, but that you can beat the ME with an exploiting tactic doesn't conflate to logical tactics not working. They have and continue to work very well and users can overachieve just by having more creativity in their decision making than the AI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooro23 Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 How can you learn to 'play the game' if every time a patch comes out the rules change? So I have to learn how to play a slightly different game every time?They don't. If your tactic makes sense, it will work regardless of the ME's flavor of the month. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 wwfan, when I say exploiting the ME I don't mean with a corner cheat or anything like that, I simply mean that different versions over the years have had weaknesses to certain approaches. Some worked better with man-to-man marking, others zonal, some worked better with a high line and closing down, others with sitting back and standing off. That's what I mean by exploiting the ME. I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't have the time to watch whole matches and tweak. My own preference is for a plug and play tactic - not a diablo - but one that I have faith in. Perhaps the game has just - or is just - moving beyond that. That'll be a pity for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondemonitors Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 wwfan.. You are the real voice of reason on this forum, to me, anyway. I've read the threads you've put out on trying to learn the game instead of trying to "game" it, and I have to say that you and you alone have kept my interests in this game and football itself as high as it is. You're suggestions about the tactical side of football and FM13, particularly, have kept this game not only interesting, but damn challenging. I want to thank you, openly, here in this thread, for all the work you do, all the crap you have to endure, and continuing to not defend the ME and the game itself, but defend the values of learning, listening, studying, and applying the mind instead of all this whining and whimpering you get tossed at you. again, thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhughthom Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Not really a very helpful post there ondemonitors, the op in this thread has hardly been 'whining and whimpering', I can totally understand his point and he's made it quite calmly and coherently through the thread. I agree with your sentiment, just not the best place to make it. Tim, whatever the rights and wrongs, ins and outs, SI have committed to using Steam going forward, and Steam does not cater to what you are looking for. It's highly unlikely players will ever be able to chop and change between FM patches ever again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ondemonitors Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 not picking on the OP, and will apologize directly to him..if he's still around.. just following wwfan's work on the entire forum and wanted to give him a shout to let him know that his work is appreciated despite some of the responses and debates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 wwfan, when I say exploiting the ME I don't mean with a corner cheat or anything like that, I simply mean that different versions over the years have had weaknesses to certain approaches. Some worked better with man-to-man marking, others zonal, some worked better with a high line and closing down, others with sitting back and standing off. That's what I mean by exploiting the ME. I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't have the time to watch whole matches and tweak. My own preference is for a plug and play tactic - not a diablo - but one that I have faith in. Perhaps the game has just - or is just - moving beyond that. That'll be a pity for me. It's a total misconception that you need to watch full games and tweak. I hate the word tweak. You have to do two things. 1: Learn how to build a fundamentally stable tactic that suits the attributes of your squad 2: Devise a few tactical plans to deal with different scenarios and load them up as and when required. That's it. You might want to play a few whole games when you are learning, but once you've got it, not only can you go back to shorter highlight settings, but you'll have it for life. No more 30 minutes of tactical tweaking between games, or replaying games to test tactics, but total confidence that you can quickly build a working and successful system in any formation, and adapt it to all conditions and match situation in seconds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 wwfan..You are the real voice of reason on this forum, to me, anyway. I've read the threads you've put out on trying to learn the game instead of trying to "game" it, and I have to say that you and you alone have kept my interests in this game and football itself as high as it is. You're suggestions about the tactical side of football and FM13, particularly, have kept this game not only interesting, but damn challenging. I want to thank you, openly, here in this thread, for all the work you do, all the crap you have to endure, and continuing to not defend the ME and the game itself, but defend the values of learning, listening, studying, and applying the mind instead of all this whining and whimpering you get tossed at you. again, thanks! Thanks. In relation to this comment and the OP's complaint, if you (OP) do decide to embrace the method I am suggesting, you will have a richer, not more time consuming experience, and will never be thrown off by a patch in the future. My motivation is to encourage people to embrace and thus enjoy the entire spectrum of the FM experience, which often requires sharp words to shock people out of how they think FM works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 14, 2013 Author Share Posted March 14, 2013 Well, I'm gonna give it a go. I'll let you know how it goes. I've gone back to the drawing board and have come up with a balanced formation that has my best players playing in their best positions and roles. I'd be happy to have three base tactics and go from there. Wish me luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwfan Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Well, I'm gonna give it a go. I'll let you know how it goes. I've gone back to the drawing board and have come up with a balanced formation that has my best players playing in their best positions and roles. I'd be happy to have three base tactics and go from there. Wish me luck. Be careful with that. You have to sacrifice what players are best at for tactical cohesion. It is far more important to get the right duty structures and the correct numbers of specialist roles for the philosophy than merely picking the role and duty each player is best suited to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcliffsmith Posted March 15, 2013 Author Share Posted March 15, 2013 Be careful with that. You have to sacrifice what players are best at for tactical cohesion. It is far more important to get the right duty structures and the correct numbers of specialist roles for the philosophy than merely picking the role and duty each player is best suited to. Thanks for the advice. I'm having to do it that way at the moment because I'm mid-season. Playing a 4231 and have won 2 from 2 so far. If it goes okay then obviously I can look into finding the right players to improve the system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebl2012 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have played fm13 on all patches this year (all 68 or whatever ;-). ) all with spurs and all with reasonable success!! Guess what, I have used ONE tactic on all!!! All I have done is continually update my squad replacing ageing and declining players with fresh, young hungry players, to say that the me has messed up your tactics is simply not true. If you don't evolve the playing staff, eventually they will peak and decline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebl2012 Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 I have played fm13 on all patches this year (all 68 or whatever ;-). ) all with spurs and all with reasonable success!! Guess what, I have used ONE tactic on all!!! All I have done is continually update my squad replacing ageing and declining players with fresh, young hungry players, to say that the me has messed up your tactics is simply not true. If you don't evolve the playing staff, eventually they will peak and decline. Oh and having blown my pc up, I don't 'tweak' as currently have to use commentary only as my older laptop doesn't support smooth 3D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
milnerpoint Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Im using the same basic tactic i made in FM10 or 11, you do not need to change things for every patch. If you do, the tactic you built in the first place was bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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