Inter 4-3-3 Assistance

[Hellas2]

INTRODUCTIONS

Hello all, I have been a reader of this forum for many years and learned everything I know about the game from some of the wonderful threads from the regulars here. I had a couple of great saves in FM13 earlier in the year, with Newcastle, Mainz and Galatasaray all based on a 4-3-2-1, with 3 central midfielders (BWM (D), MC (S) and AP (A)), two Inside Forwards and a Poacher up top. This worked really well, once I got the correct players into relevant positions, and resulted in some gorgeous link up play in attack.

However, I have come back to game after a few months off and decided to attempt to completely rebuild Inter. They are in a sorry state in the game, with mega wages to older players and high levels of debt. I managed to creak through the first half of the season, using my ‘standard’ system, but was unable to see anything like the same attacking movements as before, and we were getting overrun almost every game in midfield. In January I sold most of my big earners (Milito, Cambiasso, Stankovic, Chivu etc) who were not performing for me, and reinvested in a couple of younger, more dynamic players to contemplate some of the other exciting young talents in the squad.

I decided, based mainly on Cleon’s wonderful Understanding Your Tactics thread, to rejig my system with the main differences being the moving of my BMW MC to DMC to give a little more space for the midfield to operate in and provide more screening in front of my back four, and a trequartista in attack. However this has not worked for me with my main issue being the inside forwards unable to influence matches in the slightest. This may be down to players abilities, , but I think I still have decent players in these positions, who should be more than capable of having a big impact on matches, or some changes in the match engine.

I have decided therefore, hopefully with some input from this thread, to try something a little different and go for a ‘flat’ front three, in a formation similar to below (ignore the roles). I am open to suggestions on everything regarding this post however, and would love it to develop into a decent discussion.

PLAYERS

Before delving into my tactical ideas I thought I would introduce my players, specifically the midfield and attacking players, with some thoughts I have on them.

Gaby Mudingayi – Best suited to traditional ball winning defensive midfielder. Good defensive stats, and decent metnal and physical attributes. Certainly capable of winning the ball. He is not a creative player in the slightest however and can’t be expected to add any of that to the team

PPMS are Plays Short Simple Passes, Shoots from Distance, Marks Opponents Tightly, Dictates Tempo, Dives Into Tackles

Freddy Guarin – To me this guy should be the driving force of the team. He has decent stats in most places and can play anywhere in midfield, both defensively and offensively. One fault could be his lack of pace.

PPMS are Shoots From Distance, Shoots With Power. I would quite like to add some passing/movement PPMs to these if he is willing.

Mateo Kovacic – For 18 this guy has got a lot of potential to be a superstar. Excellent dribbling and creativity and ever improving passing attributes. He is however very lightweight and won’t assist much in defensive tasks with those stats. PPMs are comes deep to get ball, plays one-twos and runs with ball often. I am trying to get rid of the comes deep stat as I want him high up the pitch influencing things. Also want him to learn to look for pass instead of shoot due to very poor finishing stat.

Thiago – On loan from Barca and technically is very impressive. Ideally I don’t want to base my team around him as he will be gone soon and I doubt I could bring him back. PPMs are tries killer balls often, places shots, curls ball, avoids using weaker foot

Zdravko Kuzmanovic – Looks ideal for deep lying playmaker but probably not anywhere else. He has good technical stats but will offer little defensively. PPMs are dictates tempo, try long range passes and hits free kicks with power. I quite like these stats with him as he should be able to keep the ball well for us but also spread it out a bit if required.

Joel Obi – Decent young player who my staff think has good potential. I am not too sure about him as I don’t too much standing out as being able to perform any role to a great standard. He could conceivably develop into a decent DMC. PPMs are runs with ball through centre and knocks ball past opponent

Stevan Jovetic – With all the money I brought in from player sales I invested a large chunk on Jovetic and I think he should be the real jewel in my team. He has a lot of very impressive stats although I wasn’t able to get consistency out of him in my old system where I thought he would be ideal coming off the left IF position. He did a lot better for me as a trequarista and I think he will be my creative forward who should be able to unsettle most defences with a combination of good stats. PPMs are runs with ball through centre, places shots, cuts inside.

Léonard Kweuke – Got this guy cheap to fill the gap left by Diego Milito and physically he is a very imposing centre forward who should be able to bully defences and finish off chances. His positioning and work rate are very poor and he isn’t the quickest. I think he will be best suited to being an advanced forward/target man with these stats. He currently has no PPMs but I will think of training a few after deciding how best to play him in the system.

Michy Batshuayi – Never heard of this chap before but managed to get him very cheap and he looks like he has a lot of potential to become a very good centre forward. He already has strong stats in finishing, with good dribbling, pace and technique as well. Poor creativity, positioning and teamwork stats dilute him a little and he will never be able to lead the line on his own IMO. However I think he could be a very decent finisher with the right training. His PPM is plays with back to goal which I don’t really like for him. His stats suggest he will be better facing goal where his attacking prowess should see him score a good few goals.

Antonio Cassano – Where to start! He has very impressive technical stats but physically is completely past it and has also fallen out big time with me. I still think he could have a role in the team as outside Jovetic we lack any creativity up front which I think this tactic will require from the strikers, who will have to create a lot for themselves. His PPMs are argues with officials which isn’t very productive!

Ricky Alvarez – Some decent stats but hard to see how he would fit into my new framework. He performed quite well for me when fit although was pretty inconsistent. PPMs are shoots from distance and cuts inside

Mattias Ezequiel Schelotto – Very good physical and mental stats. I liked him for me but his technical attributes really let him down when trying to play inside forward/winger from the AMR position. I am really tempted to put him as my right wingback as despite some really ordinary defensive attributes I think his pace and mental stats could help him out. PPMs are runs with ball down right, plays short simple passes, hugs line.

TACTICAL IDEAS

As said, I would like to try something different to the 4321/41221 formations, and think a 433 could work for me. Below is the initial shape and roles I have in mind with my thoughts on each role

DMC – My initial idea is to put Mudingayi as a more traditional ball winner, who is also at least adept at making a simple pass into my central midfielders, or to the wing backs who are going to be crucial to providing width to the system. His main role will definitely be defensive however, making tackles in front of the back four. In the summer this is a position I badly need to fill and have a few options in mind, there is also the possibility for Guarin to come in here and give me something a bit different.

MCL – As seen I like the idea of a AP(A) in here, as I had great success in the past with this role and think in Guarin, Kovacic and Thiago I have players capable of playing it well. I really need this guy to bomb forward with the ball, as without an AM’s my fear is there could be quite a large gap between my front three and midfield/wing backs. With this I am training these guys to get forward often to compensate for the AP(A) role not having runs with deep often.

MCR – The ‘annoying’ role in the team as this is a guy who I want to just recycle possession, knowing full well the game won’t give him ratings to justify decent performances. His role is mainly to keep the ball moving, with passes to wing backs and the MCL. I think from the team Kuzmanovic is best suited to this, although I Guarin and a youth player I have could do it also. To me DLP(S) is most likely role to adequately perform the role I want. I would like the role to help out in all phases of play and think it’s a position I need to improve on in the summer.

Now the tricky part, IMO, is what to do with my three strikers. I really want the central one of these, to be move about a lot, and certainly come deep to both receive ball ready to turn and also to put some pressure on a DMC if I am up against one. Certainly he needs to create space for the other two to operate in. My thoughts for the role are either Treq or DLF(S), and will have to experiment with these to get it working for me. I think for this role Jovetic is the best candidate with his all round great attributes, and he performed well for me earlier in the season in the Treq role. Elsewhere Cassano may be an option but he is pretty poor physically and also hates me!

For the other two forwards I really can’t decide how best to set them up. Should they be the same role, perhaps two AF’s capable of moving into channels, again to create space or should they be asymmetric, perhaps one Poacher and one deep lying forward. I really can’t think how best to set these guys up and any input would be great. I will be starting with Kweuke as my poacher and Cassano as deep lying forward.

My team settings will likely be as in the figure above. Passing can change based on weather, whilst balanced, counter seems the most robust starting set up for this team. I want to press from high up the pitch, starting with the strikers, hence the press more style Shouts will be used as and when needed, although I may start most games with Hassle Opponents and Push Higher Up to break down the stuffy sides that I tend to come up against.

In my head I can see this tactic working, particularly if the front three’s movement causes confusion among the typically two central defenders and my wing backs adding required width and midfield being combative and creative. However I appreciate there will be limitations with it. I worry about the lack of width in the side, and also the problems we will encounter against good quality wide sides that could really expose my wing backs. I am also unsure if the top three will be capable of creating adequate space, or instead will be stuck in the same patch getting in each other’s way.

So community, does anyone have any input into the above. I hope I can get some feedback and I will provide some results based on how this goes.

[RTHerringbone]

Nice opening post.

Your setup is extremely similar to one of those that I posted in this thread: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/347172-The-seven-and-a-half-year-itch

There are obvious differences - your use of a DMC as opposed to my flat midfield three, but several of the challenges you will face getting this tactic to work are the same as I faced.

I think your back four is what you need for this sort of set up, attacking wingbacks perfectly create the width and movement that your midfield can't offer.

In midfield, I think there is a risk that your MCL (not sure if it's a CM or AP on Attack?) will make forward runs so often that your team splits in quite a pronounced way.

With the ball, I can see you having the wing backs, front three and CM in advanced positions, with a reasonably big gap back to the DLP and then DM. This could be dangerous against a narrow 4-2-3-1, or any shape with multiple AMC strata players.

The front three need service. Your wing backs will provide a lot (drilling crosses is a good idea), and your CM (or AP) will provide some, but your other midfield supply may not be enough.

I use a Treq and DLF like you, and tinkered a lot with the other role. I did use a Poacher with success, but other changes I made saw me end up with an AF.

A passing style of Shorter is quite restrictive. If my fears about your midfield hold true, then this style could make things worse.

Simply setting passing to default gives far more variety to your play, and with a close midfield three, you'll still do plenty of short stuff, but default will ensure more varied service to the forwards.

Counter and Press More isn't logical to me. I think high pressing is more successful with a more aggressive Strategy, so I'd keep an eye on that.

Also, if you can be bothered to trawl through a thread of me talking to myself, find the bit relating to Target Man settings, it was a game changer for me.

I'll follow this to see if my guesstimates about your midfield hold true. Good luck!

EDIT: Apologies - I noticed you haven't actually settled on a front three combination at all!

All you need to think about is how you want to play. I focused on linking midfield to attack, and on creating a front three which simultaneously pushed the defence back, and lured them forwards. The roles you are debating in space creating roles are bang on the money for me.

[Klyemann]

I played one season with Inter, playing a similar formation to yours.

I altered between 4-1-2-3 (like yours) and 4-1-2-2-1 (with 2 inside forwards).

What I found out is that playing with 3 attackers is highly ineffective against a 3 men defense. And since a lot of teams in Serie A play 3-5-2 I had a lot of problems.

I did very well in Europe though, winning the Europa League, but only managed to finish 6th in Serie A :/

[Hellas2]

Thanks for the input guys

I meant to post an update on this yesterday but didn't get the opportunity

In the end I played around half a season with this formation, changing roles from time to time but I couldn't get the consistency I wanted in terms of results and more importantly performance(was languishing in 7th when I gave it up). Serie A is, as mentioned, a very tough league for a tactical novice like myself, almost every game you are up against something different.

Anyway after some attempts at getting a 41221, and 4231, to work I just couldn't get the performances I wanted particularly from my wide players who I have never been able to get good attacking play in this save, and defensively left me very exposed at the back. However despite deficiencies in wide areas I was growing fond of the performances of my central midfield and felt I had a nice blend of roles and duties in there in all my formations. This was the main benefit of all my tinkering!

So I became happy with my central midfield (whether with a DM or AM), and could get them to consistently play well but struggled big time out wide and up front. After reading some of Cleon's posts recently I decided to give 3 at the back a go, and try and perform well with the strength of my midfield. Around May I settled on a 3412, similar to Cleon, but with some differences (I think) in team set up and my performances improved no end. I was bossing games in the middle of the park and the two up top worked very well for me, with one of my central midfielders doing a wonderful job linking up and scoring goals. The defence were very solid and the wide players have been good, both attacking and defensive. In the end I finished the season 2nd, probably didn't deserve it but delighted to be back in Champions League. I think next season I could challenge for the title

[Klyemann]

Could you tell me how you set up your 3-4-1-2 and if you coud also link to Cleon's...

I'm really interested because I'm currently trying to set up a working 3-5-2 (ish) tactic and have no succes :/

[olivermain83]

Shame you couldn't get the 433 to work as I was looking forward to seeing it. Good job on the league though, back 3's are pretty much the only way I play now.

@klyemann - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/326848-The-3-5-2-Thread A great thread on the different ways to set up a back 3.