Counter Attack. Yes or No?

[olivermain83]

I'm wondering if anyone can explain to me why I should or shouldn't have the counter-attacking option selected in my team instructions?

I ask as the TC defaults to Counter Attacking when playing more conservatively but not when a more aggressive system is used.

Does this mean that if I play a Normal, Control or Attacking set up then countering becomes redundant?

Other than trying to hold on to a lead for the last ten minutes and being worried about a counter counter or being obsessed with patient, passing build ups, I can't think of any reason not to tell my team to exploit the opposition when they over extend themselves.

It's my understanding that having the option ticked means that, when the opportunity presents itself, my players will be given a high tempo, direct passing, attacking mentality. Basically being Gung-Ho about things until we scored or the counter stalls and comes to nothing.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me please?

[RocheBag]

I've made all kinds of tactics in FM13. Short and slow, short and fast, direct and slow, direct and fast, attacking, counter standard. Every single tactic I've made has been much more effective when Counter-attack is on, than when it isn't.

[olivermain83]

That's what i'm inclined to do too it's just that there must be situations or reasons not to counter attack.

[lewis999]

Counter attacking changes all of your players mentalities to full or 20 if you're using slider clicks when the team feels the opportunity is 'on'. OR in a visual manner when you see your players bombing up the pitch when you have it on.

When I don't have it ticked, the reason is because I don't want to get countered from a counter if that makes sense. I don't want my player's soaking up and soaking up, then hitting the other team only for my CM to get caught on the ball and dispossessed as all his team mates run up the pitch hoping for him to pick a pass and the other team doing the same to me but this time I have only 2 back (My cb's) compared to their 4 and a DM when I tried it on them.

What I find is that counter attacking needs more attack duties than usual. That doesn't have any factual solid foundation so take it with a pinch of salt, it's my own way of thinking but I just think that when I have support duties in and around counter attacking teams high up the pitch, 'sometimes' they decide NOT to make the forward run as it's set to 'sometimes' and then the guy on the ball has no option and get's caught.

I say it's sometimes because that same winger/forward in the next attack may make that run and we score but there's always a chance you may get caught out and it be costly.

I fantastic thread to read is Cleon's Understanding your tactic because even though it's about understanding your own, his tactic in the first post that he demonstrates is a counter-attacking one and it has a LOT of attack duties, if I remember rightly it has both the full backs, a CM, both LW and RW and the ST (Trequartista) which kind of backs up my theory earlier about more attack duties.

He also uses 6-7 shouts in conjunction with that tactic that makes it even more effective. He explains why and if put in front of your eyes to read it makes total sense whereas many people wouldn't think about it themselves.

I'll post the link when I find it.

EDIT : http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334248-Understanding-Your-Tactic-The-Discussion

[olivermain83]

I don't have it ticked if i'm in the lead as I don't want to be counter countered so we're on the same page there.

With regards to the roles and duties, I'd have thought CA would increase the RFD, mentality, Passing, Tempo, maybe TTB's too, perhaps less RWB and would make duties and roles unimportant for the duration of the CA.

I'm really just trying to understand when/why would CA not be a good idea.

[lucatonix]

Ticking the counter attack box alters the criteria for a counter attack to be initiated. When a counter attack is initiated all your players' mentality is switched to 20. Hence it is possible to have counter attacks if the counter attack box is not ticked but you would have to be say 2 on 3 rather than 1 on 3 for example (NB in the example numbers made up; I cannot remember the actual ratio of attackers:defenders for CA to be initiated).

So you might not want to tick the counter attack box if your team plays a possession game, as you may prefer your team to ignore the counter possiblity since a slower build is preferred. However if an obvious counter attack is presented then your team will try to exploit it.

Equally, you may not want your team to have the CA box ticked if you are playing a fast, direct game since you may get into positions where you are initiating counter attacks too often leading to a frantic, open, end-to-end game of football.

It's a matter of preference of the manager at the end of the day as there are obvious advantages and disadvantages of ticking the CA box.

[lam]

Do you want everyone 'gung ho' when your players (X) outnumber the opposition players (Y) by (Z)?

ie.... most of your players will abandon their post to spring an attack when you outnumber the opposition by a certain degree........... However I shall note that IF/WHEN your attack breaks down.... guess where most of the opposition players still are???? thats right......... in your half of the field...... go 'counter counter attack' go.........

Counter attacking in an attacking formation for me needs to be treated carefully. You'll already have players committed forwards BUT most importantly you'd normally have others back supporting them, if however everyone breaks forwards, who is defending? Also take into account that they will be further forwards to start with so you'll have a large hole behind you pretty quick.

Also, counter attacking when you're looking to control a game also breaks your tactic. If you want a patient game of passing, do you really want everyone breaking forward when there is an opportunity? Sure sometimes you will, but when you're already 2-0 up?

Defensively - well, again, you're playing defensively for a reason, do you want people abandoning their posts? Bear in mind that as you likely sitting deep, you will be inviting pressure, thus the likelihood of a CA being on is quite high as the opposition have likely committed numbers forwards.

Counter Attacking can have a dramatic effect on stamina in a game.... imagine a full on break every ten minutes where everyone storms forwards and then has to storm back............

[olivermain83]

Thanks for all the replies. The effect on stamina was something I'd not considered at all.

Being as I want to be getting the ball forward asap and using really pacey wingers and AF to terrorise defenders then it seems Counter Attacking is very much not what I need. I don't care for my defenders or holding mids to be getting involved in attacks, just getting the ball forward. So, Direct passing and an Attacking or Control mentality seems a better option than CA.

[olivermain83]

Just one more thing... Would Mentality and or creative freedom affect how often my team tries to counter? i.e. A high mentality/CF would mean we counter attack a lot more often than a low Ment/CF?

[soccer.joel]

I always have counter attack on as I see it as a great advantage catching the opponents off guard

[thomit]

I started a thread here some weeks ago asking what ticking the "counter" box actually does, and got some answers. Here.

The quote from the person that heads the ME development (PaulC) in Svenc's post #25, is probably the best (and the simplest) explanation. Allthough this quote was taken from a discussion about FM 08 ... and so things may have changed.

[lam]

I always have counter attack on as I see it as a great advantage catching the opponents off guard

If you have high paced, high stamina players with lots of concentration, then you can certainly use CA a lot more. If, however, you don't then expect to be counter counter attacked at some point soon

Pure speculation here, but I don't think CF or mentality directly affect how often you'll see a CA start, however, indirectly Mentality might do so. With a low mentality you would be expecting to draw your opposition out of their own half and into yours, when this happens I would suggest that it is more likely you might then outnumber them on a break, assuming that they are fairly advanced.

That said, a higher mentality might see more of your players advanced thus more likely to be outnumbering their attack...... maybe this might mean more counter counter attacks?!?!?!

LAM