Help creating a tactic with Arsenal

[Chris2509]

I've seen a thread dealing with Arsenal but can't find it. Does anyone have a link?

If no - can someone help me create a tactic based on Arsenal's tactic in real life?

[furiousuk]

How far have you currently got? What have you got working? What are you struggling with?

Give it a go and then have a look at what you can do and ask for advice (if you need any) with making it better

There are a number of threads about that use Arsenal as an example of the tactics and theories, bit hard to tell which one you're after. You could try looking in the sub-forum for a specific download tactic.

[Chris2509]

How far have you currently got? What have you got working? What are you struggling with?

Give it a go and then have a look at what you can do and ask for advice (if you need any) with making it better

There are a number of threads about that use Arsenal as an example of the tactics and theories, bit hard to tell which one you're after. You could try looking in the sub-forum for a specific download tactic.

Just started a new save.

What I'm looking for is not a tactic I can download, but some general ideas how to exploit Arsenal's strengths.

Any thread on Arsenal you can find would be helpful.

[furiousuk]

Try using the search and find what you need, there's an Arsenal thread in the good player and team guide that will probably contain some ideas on what other people have done with the Arsenal.

Have you read the stickies at the top of the forum? And the links they contain? Loads and loads and loads of goodies in there.

How are thinking of exploiting Arsenal's strengths? What are you thinking to plug some of the gaps in the squad? Putting forward your ideas and then seeing what people think will get a better discussion going

[Chris2509]

Try using the search and find what you need, there's an Arsenal thread in the good player and team guide that will probably contain some ideas on what other people have done with the Arsenal.

Have you read the stickies at the top of the forum? And the links they contain? Loads and loads and loads of goodies in there.

How are thinking of exploiting Arsenal's strengths? What are you thinking to plug some of the gaps in the squad? Putting forward your ideas and then seeing what people think will get a better discussion going

Found some intersting threads when using the search, thanks.

Yes, I'm familiar with the stickies. Very useful indeed.

So, back to the topic -

I think Arsenal has excellent players in all areas.

Against most teams in the league, a fluid, attacking tactic should be enough to win.

Against stronger teams, the lack of a natural defensive midfielder could cause a problem.

Here are two tactics I thought about, would love to hear your (and anyone else's) opinion.

Tactic against weaker teams:

*Arteta is set as the playmaker, Giroud as the target mat.

I want Arteta and Ramsey to launch the attacks by collecting the ball from the defence and passing forward.

Then, a fluid tactic and quick football should make it difficult for the opponent to defend against my technical, fast players.

1. Should I reduce Podolski's and Walcott's creativity? Their creativity and flair are low.

2. Should I change Arteta's instruction to run from deep from 'rare' to 'sometimes'? I do want him to join the attacks.

3. I would like Walcott to play as an inside forward instead of winger. Would the middle get too crowded that way?

4. What is a better role for Cazorla, attack or support?

Tactic for difficult away games/against good teams:

*Arteta is set as the playmaker, Giroud as the target mat.

Not much to say about this tactic, just want to slow down things a little bit, retain possession and keep the shape of our formation.

1. Would it be a better idea to play Arteta as DLP (D) insted of DLP (S)? All 4 fullbacks in my squad have the PPM 'gets forward whenever possible', and I'm afraid sometimes I will be left with only 2 CB's defending.

2. What do I do if I want my wingers to help out in the defence? (not only in this tactic, in both of them). Do I drop them one square deeper?

Do I put them on support?

Thanks

[Chris2509]

Up. Would appreciate any help!

[vasilli07]

I know you are trying to create an attacking tactic but that doesn't mean that every attacking player needs to be on attack duty or just using an attacking strategy. If your formation is balance, you can still be an attacking team.

For 4-2-3-1, maybe you like to consider these few changes.

1) Changing your winger to a sup role. This makes him a more unpredictable player because of his normal wide play instructions. This gives him more freedom to either cross or cut inside to shoot himself. With winger(att), he will probably just cross 80% of the time as he is always going to the byline.

2) If you make the above change, then maybe you like to change your FBR to FB(att) or WB(att). This will create the overlapping runs by the FB.

3) Put 1 CM on defend and another 1 on attack duty. 1 CM attacking from a deeper position will be pretty harder to mark while the other CM will provide cover for your defence.

[furiousuk]

First tactic 4231:

Yep, agree with vasilli, sound like good changes. Apart from the CM, I'd suggest that in this formation they both should be holding players, especially if you're struggling against the counter. But try it and see what works for you. I'll go through your points and give my tuppence:

1) I wouldn't touch the individual sliders (or do so rarely, but not for fundamentals like creative freedom) unless you're very comfortable that you know what you want to achieve. Balance is important and its damn near impossible to achieve unless you're confident with your skills and with how you're team are and if you've just started managing a team then you definitely won't know how they'll react to things. Sometimes changes have unexpected results as there is a lot going on so you have to feel changes sometimes.

In short, despite their low creativity and flair I'd leave the sliders where they are.

2) I'd leave him on rare. Ramsey will get forward as he has a different role and is a player better suited to do so. You definitely don't want them both going forward, especially not at the same time (see my opening paragraph!)

3) Playing 2 IF's does sound like it would crowd things. May work if the AM stays deeper (supp role) but probably not a 'go-to' solution. WG, TM, IF sounds good though. I like vasilli's suggestion of going supp with the winger (although you could choose the IF as a supp role). I'd also look at Walcott on the left as IF and Oxlade-Chamberlain as winger or Adv.PM wide right.

4) Again, depends on the balance you create up top. Sometimes you might want him as a 2nd striker, sometimes as more of a part of the midfield - and beyond that sometimes you might want him as a 'bustling' AM who is busy and works hard (probably not a role he is suited for) and sometimes you will want him to be a creative force and sit and playmake. Read SFraser's post on his 4231 and Meet The Striker (which talks about the combo of AM and FC).

For 2nd tactic - 433:

1) Maybe, but Arteta probably hasn't got the wheels to cover anyway, although his smarts may make up for this. Depends whether you want him as primary playmaker, in which case support is probably more intuitive but may need to peg back the CM's, or as a secondary playmaker, whereby def sounds good but you'd want your MC's to be very creative.

2) Yes, put them into MR/ML. They won't consistently help the defense from AMR/AML, even with support duties (and nor should they, but that's a different story).

I'd advise that with 3 attacking roles up top you should probably have support roles in midfield. I use 2 AP's on support and a DM on defend to great effect with 3 attackers up top. The idea is that the 2 CM's are your creators, Xavi-Iniesta style. They don't need to worry about consistently getting forward because your front 3 should be flying all over the place making moves and making things happen which lets them play with the ball. Ramsey & Cazorla should be able to do this but Cazorla wouldn't be in my midfield consistently because he's not rough-tough enough for me in there - that's largely an opinion though so feel free to disregard. Cazorla out wide in this formation works great, I love Adv.PM role out there with wide play set to cuts inside.

Also, for me, setting Targetman and Playmaker doesn't work. Too prescriptive. You need your intelligent players to make decisions as to who is best to pass to, not be 'biased' to pass to one guy.

Also, starting with attacking doesn't fit for me at all. Too high tempo, too risky and too likely to squander possession. If your guys are technical and intelligent and you want to play a smart technical game then why encourage them to give the ball away? Let them use their technique and smarts. Let them keep the ball and carve the opposition open when they choose to, because they can.

[agentvinz]

First tactic 4231:

Also, for me, setting Targetman and Playmaker doesn't work. Too prescriptive. You need your intelligent players to make decisions as to who is best to pass to, not be 'biased' to pass to one guy.

I always wonder about this. If the TC automatically set a player as the team playmaker/ targetman because of his role (DLP & target man role) then do you always set them to 'none'? Because I think it will make the playmaker/ target man role less effective and manually tweak the TC isn't a good idea, what do you think?

[j4y_z]

2) Yes, put them into MR/ML. They won't consistently help the defense from AMR/AML, even with support duties (and nor should they, but that's a different story).

Or just assign Defensive Winger roles. I love them against strong teams, they can force the opponents Full Backs to stay put in their own half pretty much all day.

[Chris2509]

Thanks for all the comments! Really enjoyed reading and learning.

Before answering each comment, I have another question -

I ticked counter attacks in the first tactic. I have very quick players up top, and good passers, so I figured that counter attacks can have a positive effect.

Would there be any negative effect? I know that sometimes it could cause me to lose possesion, but I have intelligent players who should know when to launch a counter attack.

Another problem I'm aware of is opening myself to counter attacks as well, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. At least for now.

What do you think?

I know you are trying to create an attacking tactic but that doesn't mean that every attacking player needs to be on attack duty or just using an attacking strategy. If your formation is balance, you can still be an attacking team.

For 4-2-3-1, maybe you like to consider these few changes.

1) Changing your winger to a sup role. This makes him a more unpredictable player because of his normal wide play instructions. This gives him more freedom to either cross or cut inside to shoot himself. With winger(att), he will probably just cross 80% of the time as he is always going to the byline.

2) If you make the above change, then maybe you like to change your FBR to FB(att) or WB(att). This will create the overlapping runs by the FB.

3) Put 1 CM on defend and another 1 on attack duty. 1 CM attacking from a deeper position will be pretty harder to mark while the other CM will provide cover for your defence.

1. Sounds good, I actually thought it's the other way around, since the description of support says he will try to pass his defender and deilver a quick cross.

Will put Walcott on support.

2. Jenkinson/Sagna both have PPM 'gets forward whenever possible', isn't it enough to get the overlaps?

And what about their quality? Sagna isn't a great dribbler/crosser, is it important? Or is his presence in the final third enough to help my players stretch the defence?

3. I like the DLP-AP set up, but might give it a try later if things go wrong.

First tactic 4231:

Yep, agree with vasilli, sound like good changes. Apart from the CM, I'd suggest that in this formation they both should be holding players, especially if you're struggling against the counter. But try it and see what works for you. I'll go through your points and give my tuppence:

1) I wouldn't touch the individual sliders (or do so rarely, but not for fundamentals like creative freedom) unless you're very comfortable that you know what you want to achieve. Balance is important and its damn near impossible to achieve unless you're confident with your skills and with how you're team are and if you've just started managing a team then you definitely won't know how they'll react to things. Sometimes changes have unexpected results as there is a lot going on so you have to feel changes sometimes.

In short, despite their low creativity and flair I'd leave the sliders where they are.

2) I'd leave him on rare. Ramsey will get forward as he has a different role and is a player better suited to do so. You definitely don't want them both going forward, especially not at the same time (see my opening paragraph!)

3) Playing 2 IF's does sound like it would crowd things. May work if the AM stays deeper (supp role) but probably not a 'go-to' solution. WG, TM, IF sounds good though. I like vasilli's suggestion of going supp with the winger (although you could choose the IF as a supp role). I'd also look at Walcott on the left as IF and Oxlade-Chamberlain as winger or Adv.PM wide right.

4) Again, depends on the balance you create up top. Sometimes you might want him as a 2nd striker, sometimes as more of a part of the midfield - and beyond that sometimes you might want him as a 'bustling' AM who is busy and works hard (probably not a role he is suited for) and sometimes you will want him to be a creative force and sit and playmake. Read SFraser's post on his 4231 and Meet The Striker (which talks about the combo of AM and FC).

For 2nd tactic - 433:

1) Maybe, but Arteta probably hasn't got the wheels to cover anyway, although his smarts may make up for this. Depends whether you want him as primary playmaker, in which case support is probably more intuitive but may need to peg back the CM's, or as a secondary playmaker, whereby def sounds good but you'd want your MC's to be very creative.

2) Yes, put them into MR/ML. They won't consistently help the defense from AMR/AML, even with support duties (and nor should they, but that's a different story).

I'd advise that with 3 attacking roles up top you should probably have support roles in midfield. I use 2 AP's on support and a DM on defend to great effect with 3 attackers up top. The idea is that the 2 CM's are your creators, Xavi-Iniesta style. They don't need to worry about consistently getting forward because your front 3 should be flying all over the place making moves and making things happen which lets them play with the ball. Ramsey & Cazorla should be able to do this but Cazorla wouldn't be in my midfield consistently because he's not rough-tough enough for me in there - that's largely an opinion though so feel free to disregard. Cazorla out wide in this formation works great, I love Adv.PM role out there with wide play set to cuts inside.

Also, for me, setting Targetman and Playmaker doesn't work. Too prescriptive. You need your intelligent players to make decisions as to who is best to pass to, not be 'biased' to pass to one guy.

Also, starting with attacking doesn't fit for me at all. Too high tempo, too risky and too likely to squander possession. If your guys are technical and intelligent and you want to play a smart technical game then why encourage them to give the ball away? Let them use their technique and smarts. Let them keep the ball and carve the opposition open when they choose to, because they can.

1. Is it really that dangerous to touch the sliders?

On the one hand, I don't like it that players like Giroud, Walcott, Podolski have high creative freedom. They're not very intelligent and should rather stick to the instructions.

On the other hand, if I reduce the creative freedom in the team instructions, I feel like I'm limiting my central trio, Ramsey-Arteta-Cazorla.

2. You're right. I'll leave it on rare.

Just a little question - isn't Arteta better suited for this job than Ramsey? His stats are more impressing.

3.

4. This is one of my biggest uncertainties. All of the options you described sound very logical, I don't know which one should I choose.

I would read the thread, but would love to hear your (or anyone else's) opinion.

What role would you give him?

For 2nd tactic - 433:

1.

2.

Concerning remarks at the bottom:

- I thought about it, and I agree with you. Will tick off the playmaker and targetman instructions in both tactics.

- I figured that Arsenal is technical and talented enough to handle the high tempo. I know that attacking this way is risky, but I think that in most of the games, I will just score more than the opponent.

Yet, I understand your point. Would it be a good idea to create a third tactic, a bit more sound, which I will use when I'm the better side but don't want to play very risky?

What would be good instructions in this case? Is a 'control' instead of 'attacking' strategy enough?

Or just assign Defensive Winger roles. I love them against strong teams, they can force the opponents Full Backs to stay put in their own half pretty much all day.

[agentvinz]

@Chris2509 I always tick counter attack no matter what strategy I use because there isn't much downside in that. It will help you score more goals on the break.

Things I doo when I start Arsenal save is buy a defensive mid because Arsenal currently have none, Arteta is more suited to DLP and Coquelin is still to young. You can get Victor Wanyama just 15M and he's still young and have solid defensive stats.

Also I would look another winger as Arsenal only have Gervinho and Ox as natural winger (Sell Gervinho anyway, you'll get 19M from PSG) try to sign a left wing , either a winger or inside forward because I've found that Podolski sucks playing on left wing, he can't cross and can't cut inside because he's left footed so try to sell him next season, unless you play him upfront, but you already have Giroud anyway.

I know it's not the tactical advice but hope it helps your Arsenal save.

[agentvinz]

Anyway, I would give Cazorla an AP role, with AP role he'll stay in the hole to spray passes for the front 3, just like how Cazorla play IRL. If you give him support duty, then the front 3 should be attacking,

But if he's on attack duty, then one of the front 3 must have support duty

[vasilli07]

2. Jenkinson/Sagna both have PPM 'gets forward whenever possible', isn't it enough to get the overlaps?

And what about their quality? Sagna isn't a great dribbler/crosser, is it important? Or is his presence in the final third enough to help my players stretch the defence?

If 1 of your fullback is not a good crosser, maybe you can try something like this. Use the FB who is better crosser duty to be FB(A). With Giroud being a decent header of the ball, you want at least 2 players to cross often. Good FB crosser should be at have at least 12-13 for crossing.