TAV2 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I started a career thread playing as West Ham with the sole intention of making Andy Carroll a superstar. After an excellent first half of the season where he scored 13 in 15 games i tried to buy him in the January window. A couple of transfer neogoiations later and i had a £8M bid accepted. This is not total implausible I suppose as he is not suited for Liverpool's system and hes on big wage. They probably just wanted to cut their loses. This was fine but he never even wanted to hear about it so it was a no go and the transfer fell through. Now at the end of the season where we managed to scrape 7th, get into Europe and Andy was the Premiership top goal scorer with 27!!! goals we get another bid accepted. This bid was Liverpools value of the player who helped us achieve all this - £4.3M. How does the AI work that one out? They transferred him as soon as the loan ended. Is there no reputation boost for being the top goal scorer in the hardest league? Seems total carzy! Im not complaining about signing him as it means i can keep my thread alive. Just thought it would set me back £15M+ This is the reason the game becomes a click and win simulator after a few seasons. The AI simply can't work the transfer market and SI don't seem to be able to do anything (if they're even trying) to stop it. Andy Carroll Superstar - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/352661-FM-13-The-Big-Man-s-Career Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggusD Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think it is possible to tick a "unwanted" box in the editor, and this has probably been done with Carroll. Unwanted players have three sales options; sell at value, sell at any price (0), or sell or release. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 I have seen this feature but not really understood it or used it. So Liverpool at the start of the game are predetermined to sell him no matter what? If this is the case then surely it should be more around the value they have set for teams in real life. Nearer the £17M mark is what im sure i have read. Seems crazy that he can go and have a season like that and Liverpool still don't even want to know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 As time goes on, value falls as a player gets closer to the end of his contract. It's hardly the worst example of transfer AI out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Carroll had 3 years left on his deal with his contract not expiring until the summer of 2016. This was not a case of his value falling. He was valued at £6M yet they were happy to accept £4.3M. Has to be something wrong with the feature BiggusD was talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcidBurn Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem is the £35 million transfer in game means nothing, Liverpool do not want him so as his value drops to £6 million then they are happy to get £4.3 million for an unwanted player on £70,000 a week. His supposed value of £17 million in real life is all tied back to his huge £35 million transfer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Carroll had 3 years left on his deal with his contracting not expiring until the summer of 2016. This was not a case of his value falling. He was valued at £6M yet they were happy to accept £4.3M. Has to be something wrong with the feature BiggusD was talking about. Maybe they were just desperate to get rid of him and get him off the wage bill, for any price. Don't talk about his 'value' in relation to what you were willing to bid or what they were willing to sell for, its a meaningless comparison. You do indeed have a point that given his 27 goals they could have tried to get more, even if they were desperate to get rid of him, but if he was indeed ticked in that manner in the DB then they would just want rid of him, no amount of goals will change that. I don't think the error is with the feature per se, as it is just a setting in a data field, not a reasoned decision, although, like everything in the game, there is room to improve it going forward. As formaeuss says, there are many examples which show much better that the transfer(/squad roation) AI is insufficient Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 His value should have been higher and they should have held out for more given the time left on his contract and the amount of goals he scored. Its well known that the AI isn't perfect with transfers though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Ok i can accept that the £35M transfer doesn't come into Liverpools reasoning in the game but why is there not a massive reputation boost for being EPL Top Goal Scorer? Surely when he went back to Liverpool he went back a better player. How can there not be a World Rep and National Rep increase for this? By giving him this increase after recieving the golden boot his value would increase substantialy. They might still want to sell but surely not at such a low price with nobody else interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And surely Liverpool would decide to keep him anyway??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 24 years old, English (Home-Grown) and is something completely different to what they have. Yes they would keep him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcidBurn Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I agree after such a great season it should swing one way or the other, his value and reputation go up and they want to keep him or they want £20 million for him. I wonder if he is set to always be sold if he is then surely that's wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 And surely Liverpool would decide to keep him anyway??? If he is ticked as 'unwanted' as BiggusD said, So the DB field would have to be changed to 'unwanted unless he does really well' Like I said its a good idea going forward, but it probably isn't the easiest caclulation to code, and there is probably only a minority of players to whom it applies. It is something which the game could do better, but in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion, SI have much more important transfer and squad rotation issues to address. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 So the DB field would have to be changed to 'unwanted unless he does really well'Like I said its a good idea going forward, but it probably isn't the easiest caclulation to code, and there is probably only a minority of players to whom it applies. Very true. And the "unless he does really well" is very subjective, and anything subjective will be a nightmare to code. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 All it is really is the game trying to reflect the real life situation around him while completely forgetting what's happening in the game itsself. Just one of those things you have to accept. I do get annoyed though when the AI gets players for lower value than what you bid for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YKW Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Was there any other interest in him when you signed him? If not, that is also puzzling as pretty much every team in the league would be interest in an English, home-grown, young striker who has just finished as the leagues top scorer. Especially for £4mil. To stick up for FM, I don't think the AI transfer system is "a joke," because it is a hard thing to replicate. However, what is a joke is the lack of improvement in this area over, say, the last 5-10 years. I haven't played the full version of FM13 btw, but this thread could be about any version of FM to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 No other team were even slightly interested in signing him. His wages would price out some of the lower teams but a team like WBA, who played with Lukaku and had a successful season, would surely be keen on getting the English equivalent on the cheap. I do agree that FM is the best system out there by some way but as i said in the OP i don't think SI are that bothered on improving it. Your right it could of been any game in the last 5years I was talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameuss Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 No other team were even slightly interested in signing him. His wages would price out some of the lower teams but a team like WBA, who played with Lukaku and had a successful season, would surely be keen on getting the English equivalent on the cheap. I do agree that FM is the best system out there by some way but as i said in the OP i don't think SI are that bothered on improving it. Your right it could of been any game in the last 5years I was talking about. Andy Carroll...Lukaku...English equivalent... Sorry, I do kind of agree with your point, but that part tickled me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAV2 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Share Posted April 23, 2013 Joe Cole...Eden Hazard...English equivalent... Kevin Nolan...Fellani...English equivalent... Tomkins...Kompany...English equivalent... My West Ham team is full of them! Its the English equivalent of Belgiums National Team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Arsenal have an £11m offer accepted for sakho, i bid £12m and get told they want £32.5m work that one out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Arsenal have an £11m offer accepted for sakho, i bid £12m and get told they want £32.5m work that one out. That does it, the AI cheats............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Arsenal have an £11m offer accepted for sakho, i bid £12m and get told they want £32.5m work that one out. What team were you? Are they at all rivals with PSG? Does the manager hate you at all? They may demand more having already accepted a bit to try and get more (though fair enough not 20 million more) (Despite asking these questions, I have unfortunately seen evidence about AI demanding more from human players that it is slighlty hard to defend) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_G_32201 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 What team were you? Are they at all rivals with PSG?Does the manager hate you at all? They may demand more having already accepted a bit to try and get more (though fair enough not 20 million more) (Despite asking these questions, I have unfortunately seen evidence about AI demanding more from human players that it is slighlty hard to defend) Liverpool, hardly rivals with psg. manager has no opinion of me either way. it's just one of those things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 What team were you? Are they at all rivals with PSG?Does the manager hate you at all? They may demand more having already accepted a bit to try and get more (though fair enough not 20 million more) (Despite asking these questions, I have unfortunately seen evidence about AI demanding more from human players that it is slighlty hard to defend) I honestly wonder if its to do with rep (isn't everything?). Still cant say ive seen that happen to me in FM13 (I'm usually on international rep as I'm not playing my journeyman save) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Liverpool, hardly rivals with psg. manager has no opinion of me either way. it's just one of those things. Yup, sadly that would be my conclusion too. I always try as hard as I can to find a logical explanation for what is going on, but this and the arsenal-barcelona transfer from the other thread have defeated me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinji Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 No other team were even slightly interested in signing him. His wages would price out some of the lower teams but a team like WBA, who played with Lukaku and had a successful season, would surely be keen on getting the English equivalent on the cheap. I do agree that FM is the best system out there by some way but as i said in the OP i don't think SI are that bothered on improving it. Your right it could of been any game in the last 5years I was talking about. that to me is what's really wrong here. Liverpool selling for 4.3m is not totally ridiculous if they still want to get rid of him and no-one else is interested. The problem is that if Andy Carroll scored 27 goals IRL then even on his high wages he would get a lot of interest from several teams both here and in Europe and so Liverpool would be able to demand a bigger fee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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