Klyemann Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I got a very good prospect from my youth intake - although his attributes were kind of weak, the coach report rated him to have a 5 star potential (could become a leading Serie A defender). So I put all my effort into developing this player, giving him the best tutors, and giving him some crumbs in the first team along the way. His attributes improved very well over the course of three seasons and I got his determination to 15. Now, in my current season he is 19 years old and solid enough to be a first team regular for me (he is not a class defender yet, but I'm a poor club and can't afford class players). I have upgraded my training facilities (good) and have solid coaches (at least 3.5 stars in each category). He is playing quite well for me, with average rating of around 7.20. But the weird thing is, now that he is a first team regular and actually playing above expectations given his attributes, his development completely stopped! I'm currently in March and not a single attribute of his has gone up for the entire season. Also, in the coach report his current ability is stuck at two and a half stars and potential is dropped significantly this season and is now at 4 stars (decent Serie A defender). My question is, what more can I do for this guy? He is still only 19 so I still have hope he'll become at least a decent player for years to come. I'm out of ideas... any suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernLefty Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 He will, just give him time and keep playing him, people get scared when attributes aren't dramatically increasing, but if he keeps playing well they will. Youth development is a marathon not a sprint. He may be limited by your slightly by your facilities, but at 19 he has still a good 8-10 years to improve to his peak as defender, which I'm sure will give you time to improve them, then he will. Though 'good' are still 'good', so they won't limit much Also if he is playing way above expectations, and really well, then what are you worrying about, the end result of the attributes is how well he plays on the pitch, there are no medals in football given out for the players with the best attributes. Youth development is there to get players to play well, if he is doing that great, you've done a good job at developing him. Which means in return, when all that match experience starts being processed he will continue improving in his attributes. The place for youth development is here, if you want more thoughts, info from people etc...:http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/343043-Ajax-Youth-Development-%E2%80%93-When-The-Real-World-Meets-Football-Manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 He will, just give him time and keep playing him, people get scared when attributes aren't dramatically increasing, but if he keeps playing well they will. Youth development is a marathon not a sprint. The problem is not that they are not increasing dramatically... they are not increasing at all! From time to time his "attribute changes" even shows an "orange" downward arrow (although his attributes don't actually decrease). Also if he is playing way above expectations, and really well, then what are you worrying about, the end result of the attributes is how well he plays on the pitch, there are no medals in football given out for the players with the best attributes. Yeah, I'm quite happy with how he is playing ATM, but I'm worried that it's just due to the current form (which will most likely not last forever). Also, I have him paired with a very good defender (who was in a team of the year in previous season), so I'm also worried that he might just be playing well because he is paired with a better player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModernLefty Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I promise you, give him six months or a season and he will continue to improve. My save has been based around Youth development from day one and I have seen players seemingly stop for abit, before, if you keep playing them, continuing to improve, it isn't always a smooth improvement correlation. The only thing is what is your Coaches JPP? (Judging player potential), If the old coaches JPP was poor he may have overrated his PA and now he is getting close to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebs Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 you didn't mention his personality, what is that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generation-Next Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 An Orange downward arrow, doesn't actually mean his attributes are decreasing iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puni Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 It might also be possible that the initial report was wrong, or that he's just not a very ambitious fellow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 you didn't mention his personality, what is that? He is failry professional. Anyway, I'm posting his screenshots: So, any more suggestions? Should I find some better tutor for him (if that even helps the stats at all?), put him on a focused training (for limited defender), or should I just keep playing him and hope his attributes increase over time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebs Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 it doesn't sound like he needs anymore tutoring, he just needs game time and good performances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliu5 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Young players need determination, ambition and professionalism to become good and to become good faster. In my experience I don't try to change tutors because his ambition and professionalism can change without me knowing. Let's say you have Tutor A with 15 determination and Professional personality, and Tutor B with 17 determination and Balanced personality. First you tutor a player with Tutor A then with Tutor B because you want the player's determination to rise to 17. This will make his determination 17 but he will probably lose the professionalism and maybe ambition. I try to find a tutor that has good professionalism or ambition, we already know determination because it's a visible attribute. I put this tutor usually two times to mentor the player and ensure he reaches the tutor's level of attributes. Having tutors with personalities such as Driven, Determined, Fairly Determined, Ambitious, Very Ambitious, Fairly Ambitious (but also high determination attribute for these last 3 characters), Resolute etc etc. which will ensure that you have at least 2 of the attributes needed for progress is essential for the player to become better fast. Besides character, players need high PA or potential and playing time. That's it. In your case maybe the player reached his PA or after his last tutor his ambition and professionalism fell a lot, only his determination is fairly high so he can't progress fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrewnaldo Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Determination does not impact player development whatsoever. Professionalism is the most important single attribute for progression; then ambition. Only these two directly affect development. With a "fairly professional" player as you've got there, you know that his Professionalism (hidden) is 15-20 and his Determination is under 15. Link for personality guide. Therefore, I'd be comfortable tutoring him with anyone whose personality indicates a higher professionalism attribute and, ideally, a high ambition attribute. What's his media handling type? This also gives an indication of the hidden attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Young players need determination, ambition and professionalism to become good and to become good faster The determination bit isn't true and has nothing at all to do with how a player progresses or how fast. All that matter for progress is professionalism and ambition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
heliu5 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Determination does not impact player development whatsoever. The determination bit isn't true and has nothing at all to do with how a player progresses or how fast. All that matter for progress is professionalism and ambition. Thanks for clearing it up. I always thought determination had impact as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Determination is more of an in-match effect. Also the post a few above mentioning good personality types for tutors, also consider looking at Media Handling Style too - as Evasive or Reserved characters are far better than volatile or short-tempered as players - not saying it does anything for training improvement, but who wouldn't want players who are cool under pressure? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinsFan86 Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 If you're not using specific attribute training already, I would make sure to do that also. You can do individual attributes, or select one of the roles that will focus on a set of attributes. Personally, I would focus on composure until it was in the 12-13 area, then quickness (optional, I like my DC's to be on the quicker side, but it's a personal preference that can be mitigated by great positioning) and after that switch to the Central Defender focus. That role will focus on Marking, Tackling, Positioning, Heading, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Jumping, and Strength. I would also consider 3-4 months on technique focus at some point. Wouldn't want him to get caught on the ball with 5 for Technique. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhid30007 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 On a similar note, when exactly is the right time for your young player to give game time and how much at what age. Giving 90 minutes game time to a young 17 year old might overburn him in my opinion even if he has good attributes ? I have a model professional full back whose speed and attacking attributes has been constantly decreasing. I have given him training on role full back. his speed has been down from 19 to 16 in two years. No injuries. he is getting 25-30 games a season. Any suggestion ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Employ better fitness coaches? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhid30007 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Employ better fitness coaches? i have 3 coaches for strength each 4.5* and 3 coaches for aerobic 1 as 5* and 2 as 4.5* I am managing MU I think giving him train in tactical role too early in age might have gone against, although i always thought training full back role must increase speed also Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Full Back role will increase acceleration and stamina, training a role shouldn't mean other stats dropping off a cliff though. He may be a model pro, but does he have poor ambition? He may still need tutoring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abhid30007 Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Full Back role will increase acceleration and stamina, training a role shouldn't mean other stats dropping off a cliff though. He may be a model pro, but does he have poor ambition? He may still need tutoring. I thought model pros have good enough ambition also. Will look from this point. thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 I thought model pros have good enough ambition also. Will look from this point. thanks No- Model Professional Pro 20, Tem 10-20. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrenwwr Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 tutoring really gets the determination stat up though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 tutoring really gets the determination stat up though Only if the tutor has higher determination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff AlienIR Posted May 14, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted May 14, 2013 Don't worry about decrease....the main question is how mainy matches he played? His personnality is quite good, but not perfect...as aren't your staff. The guy improved quickly because of the tutoring...now he needs more experiment and time. He is 19, at the beginning of his career. He can not reach his PA in just 3 seasons, even with the best tutors or staff... This decrease ccould be just a matter of jadeness...try to replace him for a bit, give him a little break. This guy, aged 19, played already 20 matchs this season...almost 30 the last one. He got 13 in Natural Fitness, 14 in stamina...he should play too many match without being replaced. I might be wrong but IMO it's the main matter. The guy is tired, watch his condition,it's pretty good but not perfect. If you don't have the player to replace him, try to make his individual training lighter. Another question is what is his contract? If he's playing quite often in first team,your team is in the serie A for a while then the contract should be revelant. Underpayment can tend to unhapinness. Unhapiness is an attrition... Well, first I'll try to give him a break, 2 matchs without playing in any team, I'll try to see if the contract is revelant to his real status or division...then see if his decrease doesn't stop, I might start to think that he reach his PA... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff AlienIR Posted May 14, 2013 SI Staff Share Posted May 14, 2013 Don't worry about decrease.... His personnality is quite good, but not perfect...as aren't your staff and facilities. The guy improved quickly because of the tutoring...now he needs more experiment and time. He is 19, at the beginning of his career. He can not reach his PA in just 3 seasons, even with the best tutors or staff... This decrease could be just a matter of jadeness...try to replace him for a bit, give him a little break. This guy, aged 19, played already 20 matchs this season...almost 30 the last one. He got 13 in Natural Fitness, 14 in stamina...he shouldn't play too many match without being replaced. I might be wrong but IMO it's the main matter, but it's just my point of view. The guy is tired, watch his condition,it's pretty good but not perfect.If you don't have the player to replace him, try to make his individual training lighter. Another question is what is his contract? If he's playing quite often in first team,your team is in the serie A for a while then the contract should be revelant. Underpayment can tend to unhapinness. Unhapiness is an attrition... Well, first I'll try to give him a break, 2 matches without playing in any team, I'll try to see if the contract is revelant to his real status or division...then see if his decrease doesn't stop, I might start to think that he reach his PA...or that he will never reach it in my club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zz963852741 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The decrease could be the normal fluctuation during the season. dont worry. just to reply one thread above that the orange downward arrow does mean attribute decrease but may not affect the number in 1-20. This is because the internal number range for attribute is 1-99 if i am not wrong. So decrease from 99 to 98 will still show 20 in the attribute but with a orange downward arrow. Secondly, the fast increase before 19 could be because of the tutoring. But pro and amb are the key attribute to determine the progress without tutoring. Your tutor may not have good enough pro and amb attribute. So if the tutoring is effective, the young player will tend to have exactly same pro and amb attribute as his tutor's or at least close to. This explains why he is not showing fast progress as he was under 19. From my exp, a 19 old player with good pro and amb and regular first team exp grows very fast. For almost a season(July to March), no growing is really weird, the only explanation is low pro or amb or both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The guy improved quickly because of the tutoring The only visible attribute that increases with tutoring is Determination, so this is simply not true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrewnaldo Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The only visible attribute that increases with tutoring is Determination, so this is simply not true. That's not quite true. The only visible attribute which is DIRECTLY influenced by tutoring is determination. However, tutoring increases CA so the player will have an attribute increase elsewhere and typically a larger increase than from natural progression alone. So a successful tutoring spell will also increase other attributes indirectly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtuck01 Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Pah, I was near enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianBarth Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Where can I see how ambitious my player is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrewnaldo Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 It is a hidden attribute which is alluded to by a player's personality and media interaction type. See here for details: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/307808-The-Ultimate-Personality-Media-Handling-Guide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.