fc bayern

[Bert44]

Hello

Need some help with my bayern team, im conceding a lot of goals. The main problem seems to be that the opponent easy passes through my midfield leaving my defense lonely. I use balanced philosophy and standard as strategy, the other team insrtructions are: shorter passing, press more, drill crosses.

The formation i use is 4-2-3-1: fb- cd-cd-wb dlp(s)- cm(d) if(s)-am(a)-if(a) cf(s)

Im also struggling to get Toni Kroos working, I have tried to play him as adv playmaker but that doesnt work. I have thought of making one of my wide men ribery or robben to work as a winger but I think that they are best suited as inside forwards (i.e cut inside). What do you guys think I should do to make a solid team that doesnt concede goals as much as now?

[Guest]

Changing to fluid might be a good start to help, especially with Bayern and the roles you have set in your team. Also as Bayern you are instantly better than most teams. Try control instead? Also which striker are you playing as a cf?

Also would ask what roles your defenders have and whether your cf and am are occupying the same space which might neutralise Kroos's threat.

[Bert44]

Im playing Gomez as cf support, alaba as fb (aut) dante as cd(d) badstuber as cd(d) lahm as wb(a), my am (Kroos) and cf seem to work in the same space as you say, but I have tried Kroos as adv playmaker support and attack and that didnt work out either. What should I do to correct this and stop conceding so many goals? What do you think of my wide men, best suited as inside forwards or one of them as winger?

Why fluid?

[Guest]

I don't believe Gomez is suited to a cf role. I don't have his numbers to hand but I would change that. Not many players can play a cf role I'm quite sure Gomez is one of them who can't, maybe I'm wrong. There is a thread with great info about your formation on here. Also you don't have mamy specialist roles in your team so fluid would be a good starting point due to not having that many.

What are your team instructions?

[däkkä]

Your whole front four want to exploit the space in the pocket but you have:

- no one to push their d-line deeper

- no one to lure their midfield higher up

- no one to stretch their defensive shape wider

In essence your four want to exploit space that probably doesn't exist or at least your tactic doesn't ensure that it does.

So play a winger or get the full-backs forward more consistently, drop the MCs back to DM, get Mario Gómez in the box, he's rubbish elsewhere.

[Bert44]

I have read the thread you are pointing to, some nice stuff but still cant get it to work. Team instructions are: short passing, press more, drill crosses the rest are set to default.

Däkkä: with two inside forwards (a,s) and my am(a) cf(s) I believe I push their dline deep. To lure the midfield up I have Schweinsteiger as dpl (s) and Martinez cm(d), have thought about set up these two right above my defenders rather then in the middle of the pitch. Would this be a good idea, Im afraid that they wouldnt be able to contribute to my attack if I drop them deeper. Would putting my fbs alaba and lahm to attacking roles better support the width and stretch the opponents shape, maybe wingbacks? But if I put them to wbs wouldnt that leaving my two cbs lonely and up for counter attacks?

[däkkä]

Däkkä: with two inside forwards (a,s) and my am(a) cf(s) I believe I push their dline deep.

What does IFs do to push the opponent back? He wants to collect the ball between the lines and take a long shot. And the CFs will want to drop deep and make play. What tells you Mario Gómez is up for the task? He's just eating up the AMCs and IFs's space.

To lure the midfield up I have Schweinsteiger as dpl (s) and Martinez cm(d), have thought about set up these two right above my defenders rather then in the middle of the pitch. Would this be a good idea, Im afraid that they wouldnt be able to contribute to my attack if I drop them deeper.

The thing is that with an AMC and two players looking to play in the pocket you want to make that space bigger. Dropping the MC's back to DM can make it so. They'll do less offensively so the front four can do more.

Would putting my fbs alaba and lahm to attacking roles better support the width and stretch the opponents shape, maybe wingbacks? But if I put them to wbs wouldnt that leaving my two cbs lonely and up for counter attacks?

Possibly yeah. It's a risk you can weigh yourself. However, if you don't want to get the full-backs forward then you're doing nothing to break down narrow opponents given your inside forward fixation.

If the opponents playing very defensively, like a 4-5-1 are you really gonna tell your full-backs to sit back and keep trying to play through the middle?

[Bert44]

Very good tips däkkä, thank you. If I understand you right I should either put one of Robben or Ribery to winger and the other inside forward to push the d line? which of the two would best suit as winger? If I would leave Robben and Ribery as inside forwards then I would have to put my fbs alaba and lahm to wingbacks (a) to push the d line? Would these two options create more space for my am?

What role would you give Kroos? Maybe if I drop Schweinsteiger dpl (s) and Martinez dm down to above my cb and then put Kroos to adv playmaker? And put Gomez to adv fw.

The problem with dropping down schweinsteiger as I see it is that he has so good offensive skills and I feel they would go missed if I play him deep, or am I wrong? How do you think about just dropping Martinez down to above the cbs and leave Schweinsteiger in the middle of the pitch as dpl s?

Also, should i go to fluid or stay with balanced?

[jonomagloneo]

Personally, I'd just prefer balanced, particularly if you set your full backs to attack and assign specialist duties in the centre of midfield.

I keep meaning to give a Bayern game a go. Much like you suggest, I would play 4-1-2-2-1 balanced/control, but playing Kroos as a DLP(s), Schweinsteiger as a B2B, and Javi Martinez behind as a DM(d). Alaba and lahm would both have attacking duties, and I'd play 2 IF(probably attacking on Kroos' side and supp on Schweini's) and a DLF(s). I'd be tempted, despite playing control, to have counter attacking ticked, too. One day, I'll actually get round to it.

[däkkä]

Very good tips däkkä, thank you. If I understand you right I should either put one of Robben or Ribery to winger and the other inside forward to push the d line? which of the two would best suit as winger? If I would leave Robben and Ribery as inside forwards then I would have to put my fbs alaba and lahm to wingbacks (a) to push the d line? Would these two options create more space for my am?

What role would you give Kroos? Maybe if I drop Schweinsteiger dpl (s) and Martinez dm down to above my cb and then put Kroos to adv playmaker? And put Gomez to adv fw.

The problem with dropping down schweinsteiger as I see it is that he has so good offensive skills and I feel they would go missed if I play him deep, or am I wrong? How do you think about just dropping Martinez down to above the cbs and leave Schweinsteiger in the middle of the pitch as dpl s?

Also, should i go to fluid or stay with balanced?

Well pushing the opposition d-line back isn't mandatory. Some teams don't have to because their opponents are so overawed by them and play deep regardless. That's why Spain get away starting Fàbregas as their nominal striker. The problem in your system is that the complete forward will time and time again move into positions that your AMs want to play in. So changing his role is just as much a question of getting him away from your AMs way as it is of running behind the defence. As for wing-backs, I really can't say they would be used to push opponent d-line back. Maybe in the rarest of occasions a full-back like Jordi Alba can be employed like this, but it rarely if ever happens.

Alaba and Lahm offer width, full-back / attack or wing-back / support/attack. They have good recovery and most opponents are likely to mark their runs so the counter threat isn't necessarily all that big if you are forcing the opponent wingers to play as extra full-backs and they are slower or have poorer work rate than your full-backs.

If you keep Ribéry and Robben as IFa's (or change Ribéry to APa if you want) you already have two dribblers, so Kroos can be more of a supporting player, advanced playmaker on support duty. I think sitting in the pocket suits Kroos better than anything, for Müller attacking midfielder might be a better role.

You can also consider moving Martínez back to DMC and keeping Schweinsteiger where he is (like you said) and then also moving Kroos next to Schweinsteiger. That would leave more room for the inside forwards and center forward and it'd be more solid defensively too. That's how I see Guardiola lining them up next season:

AML: Ribéry

FC: Götze

AMR: Müller

MC: Kroos

MC: Schweinsteiger

DM: Martínez

or with a proper center forward:

AML: Ribéry

FC: Mandzukic

AMR: Müller

MC: Götze

MC: Kroos

DM: Schweinsteiger

CB: Martínez

[yaşar]

AML: Ribéry

FC: Götze

AMR: Müller

MC: Kroos

MC: Schweinsteiger

DM: Martínez

which roles and duties suits best for these players ? dakka

[däkkä]

You can set up them in many ways. All of them can play so many roles successfully and it's all up to what you want to do.

[yaşar]

You can set up them in many ways. All of them can play so many roles successfully and it's all up to what you want to do.

AML: Ribéry iF a

FC: Götze DLF s

AMR: MüllerİF a

MC: Kroos ADV S

MC: Schweinsteiger DLp S

DM: Martínez DM d

is this work ?

[däkkä]

Sure looks good

[Bert44]

Again a big thanks to you, very thoughtfull advice. Just finished my first season and now I have bought Reus from dortmund, thinking of playing him instead of Robben as inside forward, what do you think? Are going to try Kroos as adv pl s, to keep him in the hole hopefully that will get him going. Also going to switch Gomez to adv fw a, hopefully that will open up space for Kroos and they will not play in the same space any longer.

Since my last post I dropped Schweini(dlp s) and Martinez(anchor man) to right above my d-line, made my team more solid. But as I was afraid of Schweinis offensive contribution took a big hit. For the second season I am considering moving Schweini up to the middle again, leaving martinez as anchor man and Kroos at the side of Schweini as adv pl s. What do you think of this idea?

Also struggling to get the best of Muller, have tried him as inside fw but that didnt work so good, maybe he just can play att mid? How should I get him going?

The team for second season: alaba fb-dante cb- badstuber cd- lahm fb a Martinez anchor man -Schweini dlp s- Kroos adv pl s Reus inside fw a-ribery inside fw s

Gomez adv fw

Any ideas for the fine tuning of the starting lineup?