Knowing a clubs finances properly before taking a job

[QWERTYOP]

Shouldn't you be able to do this? ATM as far as I can see, you can only see if a clubs finances are "rich" or whatever. Surely any manager taking over in real life would be MUCH more clued up with the clubs finances before they take the job?!

Current balance, main incomings/outgoings, and a REALLY big one for me, outstanding loans! The last one can have a HUGE effect on a clubs ability to go forward. Hell, even a club with a "rich" status can be reduced to "insecure" within the space of a season if there are a crazy amount of outgoing loan payments.

So... Shouldn't we be able to have a proper look at a club inside & out before committing to signing on that dotted line?

Thoughts?

[Cougar2010]

I'm fairly certain you used to be able to in previous versions as it was something I considered when taking jobs.

Can't say I've been in a similar position this time round so maybe haven't noticed but there are a few things you can look at:

On the season summary report for a country you can filter by league and then there are a few reports for things like turnover, season ticket numbers, financial status etc.

Its not the same as seeing the finances and I would agree we should get more information before taking a job.

[danny_123]

would be nice if you got told the backing the board were willing to offer, i took over valencia they had a good transfer and wage packet to kick on with them in january only spent a little bit, next season starts i went for 18 mil to 500k transfer funds, even though it says secure on the finances and it says there value is 200 million(35 mil debt)

[Jibby123]

Yeah, would be cool if you had some sort of interview upon being offered a job or when applying for it, based roughly around the chairman meeting you get after you join the club.

Link it in with finances, staff numbers you expect, philosophies they expect, money they can offer, possible facilities upgrades in the future etc. It needn't be that complicated OTT, and they could always 'lie' to coax you in which you can throw back at them later when you resign, telling the press/fans etc.

[Kenco]

Not for me. The board look after finances, the manager looks after the team and should only be given basic information.

[QWERTYOP]

Not for me. The board look after finances, the manager looks after the team and should only be given basic information.

The board look after finances?! If you didn't have 7009 posts, i'd assume you were new to FM! Besides the fact that the manager DOES play a MASSIVE role in keeping finances right (certainly in FM) things like massive outgoing loans that are due to run until the end of time can have a HUGE effect on your future spending power & wage budget.

[x42bn6]

If the football club (and/or the parent company/companies) are listed companies, then [the latest] financial information should be available, full-stop - to everyone, not just applying managers.

For privately-held companies, there would probably be an NDA during contract negotiations for information the club doesn't want made public. The question is then whether a manager would be interested and whether the club would budge.

There is a good, recent example - Guardiola chose Bayern Munich because it had solid financial independence. Pep is a detail freak and I find it hard to believe he'd just read the papers. At the very least, I can see him looking through detailed synthesised reports on Bayern's financial results and trends. So yes, managers may be interested in financial results. Maybe not the full balance sheet or full P&L report - but things more relevant to home.

[OxfordUnitedFC]

Not for me. The board look after finances, the manager looks after the team and should only be given basic information.

I'm pretty sure any incoming manager would have a discussion with the chairman about the current state of the finances and how it would effect wage and transfer budgets going forward.

[Scotty Walds]

If the football club (and/or the parent company/companies) are listed companies, then [the latest] financial information should be available, full-stop - to everyone, not just applying managers.

But this information is not current, it is often several months behind.

[Nobby_McDonald]

The board look after finances?! If you didn't have 7009 posts, i'd assume you were new to FM! Besides the fact that the manager DOES play a MASSIVE role in keeping finances right (certainly in FM) things like massive outgoing loans that are due to run until the end of time can have a HUGE effect on your future spending power & wage budget.

The manager does not set the budgets, agree sponsorship deals, set ticket prices etc. The board do look after the finances. All the manager does is spend as much of the budgets as he wishes, and sell players as he sees fit.

[x42bn6]

But this information is not current, it is often several months behind.

It's still worth considering - and the rest can be inferred from what has happened since then (transfers, a rough sense of wages, etc.) - unless it's a wholesale change (in which case I would expect a manager to be more cautious).

Public companies also do interim statements, such as mid-year and quarterly reports. It shouldn't be difficult to put together a summary of figures for last month for any company, either.

[QWERTYOP]

The manager does not set the budgets, agree sponsorship deals, set ticket prices etc. The board do look after the finances. All the manager does is spend as much of the budgets as he wishes, and sell players as he sees fit.

And after those are set, it's well within the managers power to still ruin a club, or help keep it financially stable. And the point is, if there are hundreds of thousands going out of the club in loans every month, that's going to affect your future planning as a manager there. What's going on with the financial side of things has a DIRECT effect on you as manager. So you should know exactly what's going on.

Real managers do. Bottom line. We go into a club blind, RL managers do not.

[Kenco]

Managers are on a need to know basis, they don't see a detailed breakdown of the club's finances as it is not their responsibility.

Yes, they can have an effect on finances and they probably are given a brief outline of the clubs overall position when they are applying for the job but you don't set your own transfer and wage budgets do you?

I'm not sure you realise that a manager is just an employee of the club, not the top man.

[x42bn6]

It's not about being able to manage the club's finances in such detail, but having access to that information during negotiations if required.

I can see some managers wanting to know more about the business plan of the club before signing, such as whether there will be any loans to be taken on the horizon, or if there are any plans to expand the stadium. These will impact their view of the role.

Sure, a full balance sheet or P&L report is probably out of the question, but an idea or summary is not outlandish.

Personally, I think a manager might even be able to influence those in some way - "I won't sign because I feel the squad needs short-term investment but you are planning on paying for a new stadium soon".

[QWERTYOP]

Managers are on a need to know basis, they don't see a detailed breakdown of the club's finances as it is not their responsibility.

Yes, they can have an effect on finances and they probably are given a brief outline of the clubs overall position when they are applying for the job but you don't set your own transfer and wage budgets do you?

I'm not sure you realise that a manager is just an employee of the club, not the top man.

Yes. But that's governed by the overall financial state of the club. So it's very much in a managers interest to know before signing on the dotted line that "oh btw, we have 250k p/m going out on loan repayments, and in the medium to long term, that's going to require you to sell players to keep us in the black. Otherwise we'll have to slash your future wage budgets". So yeah, i'd say it's VERY much in a managers interest to know that. And in real life, they DO get to know things like that before the commit the next three years of their life to a club and a strategy.

[KDR]

Tbh, apart from with PLCs, there's no way a board would lay the club's finer workings bare for fear of someone else gaining an advantage if you refused their offer and started work somewhere else and/or having their dealings made public. IRL this could always be covered by a NDA to protect the club against the latter happening, but they'd never go for the idea of a manager looking at their financials ahead of accepting the job, only to then go elsewhere knowing whether their club was a threat or not due to the state of their finances. And even a PLC's records don't really show everything, so all in all, I'm fine with it as it is (it also adds to the challenge, walking into a club thinking they're more than OK and then going 'Christ! What's all this mess?' I love it).

[QWERTYOP]

Tbh, apart from with PLCs, there's no way a board would lay the club's finer workings bare for fear of someone else gaining an advantage if you refused their offer and started work somewhere else and/or having their dealings made public. IRL this could always be covered by a NDA to protect the club against the latter happening, but they'd never go for the idea of a manager looking at their financials ahead of accepting the job, only to then go elsewhere knowing whether their club was a threat or not due to the state of their finances. And even a PLC's records don't really show everything, so all in all, I'm fine with it as it is (it also adds to the challenge, walking into a club thinking they're more than OK and then going 'Christ! What's all this mess?' I love it).

Lol! You may want to give Galatasaray a pop. That's all I'll say. I don't want to spoil the surprise(s)...

[Kenco]

Yes. But that's governed by the overall financial state of the club. So it's very much in a managers interest to know before signing on the dotted line that "oh btw, we have 250k p/m going out on loan repayments, and in the medium to long term, that's going to require you to sell players to keep us in the black. Otherwise we'll have to slash your future wage budgets". So yeah, i'd say it's VERY much in a managers interest to know that. And in real life, they DO get to know things like that before the commit the next three years of their life to a club and a strategy.

Yes it's in a manager's interest to know some things but my argument is they don't need to know everything and I'm sure they don't know every single detail, despite what you think.

I think the game could do with giving you a little more but not everything. x42bn6's post sums it up.

[wazza]

I would like it were you know the finances and you could agree transfer / wage budgets / season expectations etc.. as part of your contract negotiations. You may have 2 clubs who you are interested in joining and wish to join the better one, or you could quit your job as your chairman has lied to you to get you onboard, like you can with the players when you use key player, first team etc on there contracts. If you leave because of that you could then have a pop at the chairman when you depart

[Jamman]

But this information is not current, it is often several months behind.

More like over a year old.

A club files its accounts yearly, they often then file them a few months late.

As a Southend supporter I know how hard it is to find out the financial situation of a club.