Setting up a 451 - with 1 DM and 2 MC

[Ron_Burgundy]

Hi all,

I wonder if I could ask for a bit of help.

I am trying to set up a 4-1-2-2-1 (with 1DM, 2MC's, AML/R and a ST). My (very) basic thinking is that I wanted to create a solid formation which plays patient possession football (I know everyone seems to be trying this) with plenty of width; either from the full backs who can attack because a DM is waiting to cover or from the AML/AMR.

Anyways, to get to the point. I have tried this so far and encountered two main problems which I think are stopping the tactic from working properly.

1) My two MC's are having to cover far too much ground and are 1) ineffectual 2) knackered after 60 minutes. I am playing as Arsenal and have been using Wilshere/Cazorla as AP-A and then another (sometimes Wilshere, sometimes Ramsey) as DLP-S or B2B-S.

2) My ST is often isolated and again, therefore ineffectual. I have tried quite a few options here (probably too many to be honest) DLF, AF, TM, P. Bearing in mind, I am Arsenal and reluctant to buy a whole new squad I have been rotating between Giroud (TM or DLF) and Walcott (AF, P).

I appreciate that by not having an AMC I am likely to have issues with supporting a lone front man but I have also similarly found a DMC is a very good idea, particularly as many AI sides employ an AMC.

So, the question is, can anyone provide any guidance (either written) or point me towards an existing thread which covers a similar issue?

Really do welcome any thoughts.

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[Cleon]

I did a mammoth thread on this very formation, in fact 15 pages long.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334248-Understanding-Your-Tactic-The-Discussion

If you read it all (yes I know its large) then you'll gain valuable insight from what others have posted and the questions they have asked. There really is a wealth of knowledge in there.

[Rekobeto]

A little cheating trick in Ludo in this tactic. Put your AP (s) as a winger on either side, and the other side a regular winger/inside forward. The playmaker will be in acres of space because he drops in before reaching the full back, and frees one of the midfielders from his marking when going inside in front of the defence. Best employed as a right footer going from the left, and vica versa.

This way you can actually play with a poacher or advanced forward because the AP can draw the centre back away, and also execute the right pass into the strikers area.

[Bigpapa42]

I highly - HIGHLY - recommend taking the time to read Cleon's thread on the formation. Using mostly the advice found in there, I've managed to put together an effective version of the formation that I have adapted to couple of different clubs. It has helped make FM13 a much more enjoyable experience than any of the past few versions.

[dankrzyz]

i see you have set one of the MC's to attack role. this is fine, but i fouund out that that player usually tends to exclude himself from buildup as he immediately goes forward.

The AP(A) in the MC spot is more likely to initially hold his run until he gets the ball, then run with the ball (RFD=mixed, RWB=often) - rather than make an immediate forward run ahead of play like a pure CM(A) might (RFD=often, RWB=mixed). That's why I've had more midfield stability and involvement by the playmaker with an AP(A) in the MC spot. I still haven't found the best fit for his MC partner, however.

[drinkmixer84]

My favorite combination is as follows:

B2B----AP-A

DLP-S

The DLP is my pivot man and the AP and B2B play off each other nicely on the build up.

[mibsweden]

I have been using this:

GK (D)

FB (S) CD (D) CD (D) FB (S)

DLP (S)

CM (A) CM (S)

IF (S) IF (A)

DLF (S)

Philosophy: Fuid, Marking: Zonal, Attacking mentality, Everything else on default.

Been working a treat. The only thinkg I am thinking of changing is the FB behind the IF (S) to FB (A).

[agentvinz]

Maybe try more simple role for the midfield trio instead of playmakers and anchor man. In my 451 my setup is DM(D) , CM(s) and AP(A) and its been very successfull, I actually follow the destroyer, passer and creator system, where the DM is the destroyer, CM as passer, and AP as creator. The DM shield the back 4, the CM will keep it simple and the AP make many key passes. However if you like to persist with your setup then try change the philosophy to balanced or even rigid, because it will suit your role (Anchor, DLP, and AP) better.

You can try Rekobeto's advice about using AP on the wing, it will support the lone striker better

[James9]

Maybe try more simple role for the midfield trio instead of playmakers and anchor man. In my 451 my setup is DM(D) , CM(s) and AP(A) and its been very successfull, I actually follow the destroyer, passer and creator system, where the DM is the destroyer, CM as passer, and AP as creator. The DM shield the back 4, the CM will keep it simple and the AP make many key passes. However if you like to persist with your setup then try change the philosophy to balanced or even rigid, because it will suit your role (Anchor, DLP, and AP) better.

You can try Rekobeto's advice about using AP on the wing, it will support the lone striker better

Do you know how to where i can Rekobeto post on using AP on the wing

[Ron_Burgundy]

Evening all,

Thanks very much for your responses.

I did a mammoth thread on this very formation, in fact 15 pages long.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/334248-Understanding-Your-Tactic-The-Discussion

If you read it all (yes I know its large) then you'll gain valuable insight from what others have posted and the questions they have asked. There really is a wealth of knowledge in there.

Cleon, I started reading your thread and thought, "This seems familiar...and lo and behold, I got to about page 5 and realised I had posted in that thread previously! I have revisited much of that info and started a new save, keeping that in mind. Hopefully I will have better luck this time around...

before i head to the thread cleon posted i'd give you my tw o cents.

first untick the sliders for dline, width...

what i have found out is that this formation does quite a good job against most formations. i see you have set one of the MC's to attack role. this is fine, but i fouund out that that player usually tends to exclude himself from buildup as he immediately goes forward. also, other MC you have on DLP who tends to stay deeper therefore youre making a gap in your otherwise solid center midfield. i reckon its far better to train one,or both cm's to get forward and run through the center PPM's and leave them on support.

to do better linkup, maybe having SC on DLF support and wide midfielders on IF A would work better. depending on players (walcott comes to mind as a good IF)

Thanks for the advice mate, will keep that in mind and see how it goes...

A little cheating trick in Ludo in this tactic. Put your AP (s) as a winger on either side, and the other side a regular winger/inside forward. The playmaker will be in acres of space because he drops in before reaching the full back, and frees one of the midfielders from his marking when going inside in front of the defence. Best employed as a right footer going from the left, and vica versa.

This way you can actually play with a poacher or advanced forward because the AP can draw the centre back away, and also execute the right pass into the strikers area.

very much like the sound of this too - might be an option for someone like Cazorla over on the left wing...

Cheers!

[Gee_Simpson]

A little cheating trick in Ludo in this tactic. Put your AP (s) as a winger on either side, and the other side a regular winger/inside forward. The playmaker will be in acres of space because he drops in before reaching the full back, and frees one of the midfielders from his marking when going inside in front of the defence. Best employed as a right footer going from the left, and vica versa.

This way you can actually play with a poacher or advanced forward because the AP can draw the centre back away, and also execute the right pass into the strikers area.

Is it an actual cheat/exploit or was that just your choice of word?