my 4-2-3-1 DEEP, any advice appreciated! (specifically who to play where)

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

So I'm playing 4-2-3-1 Deep on a new file w/ Barca. It's my first ever venture into 4-2-3-1 Deep (i've always done 4-4-2 or 4-3-3/4-5-1). I've only been able to find like 2 threads on the 4-2-3-1 Deep (everything else is regular 4-2-3-1).

Here's a summary of my changes and results:

- 1st season went about 50/50 between 4-2-3-1 Deep and 4-3-3. Pretty much dominated on a regular basis. All positions and tactics were basically default.

- in off-season, wanted to focus on 4-2-3-1 Deep exclusively. Added Fellaini and Defour, got rid of Busquets. Did some changes to back 4 (bye Alves, Adriano, and Puyol. Hello Nkoulou, Muniesa, and Inigo Martinez and get ready for more starts Bartra and Montoya. Overall, a CA downgrade, but I like focusing on youth).

- 2nd season, my defense is struggling big time, almost giving up 2 goals per game in the first 15odd matches.

- I change my AM to be Advanced Playmaker (Attacking) and my Striker to be Complete Forward (Support). Read this in another thread, seems to go pretty well except all my AMs get tired fast. I also changed my tactics to Fluid + Counter. Seems to be an overall improvement in my team's performances, though I'm still not as dominant as the previous season (attacking corps is pretty much the exact same as previous season).

- considering actually changing my 2 DMs from default roles as DMs (Defensive). Even though I like symmetry, I'm willing to change. From what little stuff I've read, an Anchor Man (Defensive) and Deep Lying Playmaker (Support) is apparently the best combo?

I'm a bit up in the air about who to assign to which DM position. I like rotating my DM's but prefer Fellaini to be in there as much as possible. I currently have Fellaini, Song, Mascherano, and Defour. I don't have the game up at the moment, but I assume Fellaini can play either DM spots. Mascherano would excel at Anchor. Song and Defour can play either also, just not as good as either Fellaini or Mascherano?

Essentially, I just want defensive dominant performances. My attack seems to be sufficient, though I don't mind 1-0 victories.

Any input or advice about the DM assignment, or the formation in general is greatly appreciated.

[vasilli07]

If your DMs are good passer(14 and above), it's a good idea for both of them be to DLP, 1 support and 1 defend. Another setup I used is 1 anchor and 1 DLP(Sup).

[Guest]

If your DMs are good passer(14 and above), it's a good idea for both of them be to DLP, 1 support and 1 defend. Another setup I used is 1 anchor and 1 DLP(Sup).

Would you not want them to have good composure, good creativity and flair?

[Fabian Jonsson]

Would you not want them to have good composure, good creativity and flair?

Not necessarily. Composure and creativity of course helps him play a better distribution game, but flair is generally not needed unless you want him to hit "Hollywood passes". Even with high flair you probably need to teach him the right PPMs if you want him to play more like a quarterback than a traditional ball distributor (short simple passes towards the area of the pitch where there's more space available). I mainly look at the defensive positioning and pressing, and the attacking movement, when I choose roles, and don't care too much about the other settings. To me, it feels as though attributes and PPMs do more to influence the decisions of a player than the role/duty.

[Guest]

Personally in my deep formation I want my DLP to do exactly that and Quarterback the game and to be able to hit a long pass when the need arises. I think with the deep formation there is a reason why the DLP is given the playmaker role ahead of the AP.

[tinkerer]

your 2 DM is playing a high part in your tactic here , IMO

The DM partnership is should be 1 of your "Nigel de Jong" like and 1 creative passer who also know how to defend

shame you sold Busquets because i think himself can play those 2 role, good with tackling, superb in passing ( although i think he is nothing if compared to Xavi )

You have : Fellaini, Song, Mascherano, and Defour

Fellaini is a great player, he is mobile, but i think he is not suit with your Anchorman roles, leave Anchorman roles to Song or Mascherano

where's Xavi? He's still on your team right? put him in DLP role, he is a master of pass! and if he's not then Fellaini

And your defense struggling? try to put Mascherano on CB position, he should do well

[Fabian Jonsson]

Personally in my deep formation I want my DLP to do exactly that and Quarterback the game and to be able to hit a long pass when the need arises. I think with the deep formation there is a reason why the DLP is given the playmaker role ahead of the AP.

Well it depends on tactical philosophy of course. Since the OP is managing Barca, I'd advocate a possession game with slow, careful build up play. Having a DM hit long balls is IMO counter productive in that case. That's why Xavi (the best passer of the ball in the world) tries relatively few difficult through balls and long range passes IRL. You remember the ones he does hit, but tend to forget the 99% simple sideway passes he hits every game.

[tomtuck01]

Recently did a thtead myself about the evolution from a 4-2-3-1 deep to a new system. Though not exclusively about the 4-2-3-1, the OP goes into detail about how I set it up and why it worked.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

You have : Fellaini, Song, Mascherano, and Defour

Fellaini is a great player, he is mobile, but i think he is not suit with your Anchorman roles, leave Anchorman roles to Song or Mascherano

where's Xavi? He's still on your team right? put him in DLP role, he is a master of pass! and if he's not then Fellaini

I'm playing Xavi at AM. Rotating him, Cesc, and Thiago (I need it, as I stated the AM tends to get tired faster as an attacking playmaker).

Recently did a thtead myself about the evolution from a 4-2-3-1 deep to a new system. Though not exclusively about the 4-2-3-1, the OP goes into detail about how I set it up and why it worked.

thanks, bookmarking that link!

edit:

So I've been trying an Anchorman and DLP (Support) and it seems to be working great. Though I like Vasilli07's idea of 2 DLPs just 1 Support and 1 Def and will give that a shot. Would the fact that I'm Fluid + Counter matter in how I assign the 2 DMs?

[RocheBag]

I find a great partnership to be DLP (defend) and DM (support). The DLP stays back and distributes and the DM acts like a ball winner, closing down and sometimes joining the attack. Think Xabi Alonso and Sami Khedira for Real