Two aggravating problems with this year's game

[woodwardm28]

There are two issues I keep running into on FM13 which are driving me nuts. I don't know if it is just me or if it is everyone but I strongly feel it needs to be dealt with for FM14.

Let me say first that I have tried playing with numerous teams and I signed different players with them all to see if the issue was just with a particular team I had but no, I keep having them with every team. Here they are:

The first issue I keep having is if I build a team of players I am happy with and with appropriate depth to where I feel I can challenge well, my team starts having injuries at the same position until I am down to the exact number of players needed for that formation. For example, I had one with Swansea and I was doing extremely well and having a lot of fun. I signed a lot of players I liked and my team was looking good. I had depth in every position. I start the season and I have 4 wingers go down in the first few weeks for 6 weeks or more which left me with just two. I was having an injury in the position every game. I would sub in someone for the injured position and they would be injured. When I say I had someone injured every game, I am not overexaggerating. I also had all my center backs hurt except two. I ended up getting fired because I couldn't make any impact subs and my players were getting exhausted not having anyone who could give them a rest and my enjoyable game was over. I tried another one with Sociedad, finally got players I wanted around 3rd season or so and all my holding midfielders started getting hurt and I had a guy getting injured every game. I did not have a single player from my Swansea team so it wasn't that I had all injury prone players and it was a lot of players who didn't get hurt at all in my first season. I don't know if it is a glitch for the second or third season or if they are just turned up too high but it's very frustrating and unrealistic and cost me a very fun job.

The other issue I have been having that has been frustrating me is that I will get 25 shots a game, good shots from point blank with fantastic players and I will score maybe 1 and my opponents will get 8 shots at most, no better shots than me, usually not even as good, and their much weaker strikers finish them against my better goalie. For example, my first 3 games with PSG, I have Falcao and he has missed point blank headers with 20 finishing and had 1v1s saved by their goalies. Then the other team (like Ajaccio) will have some guy shoot from outside the box and it goes in on about their only highlight of the match. It happened with them my first 3 games. Every single game, I had over 20 shots and my opponents had exactly 8 and they either beat me or I drew because they literally didn't miss if they got a shot and my fantastic finishers could not hit the broad side of a barn. I am playing that game with a friend and when he's not free, I am playing one with Arsenal. Again, same thing. 19 finishing Podolski, Walcott and Lewandowski miss great chances or hit the post or whatever and only get 2 goals out of 19 shots, Reading scores on their only two shots and I draw. I don't understand it but it is also really frustrating me. If my guys have the finishing they have, they should be finishing a lot more of the great chances that they are getting, especially considering the chances the other team scores on. Also, a lot of those chances come from my AI defender doing something absolutely stupid like one defender stealing it from the other defender to the other team's player who crosses it and my defender never turned around and it just hits him in the back and falls to an opponent who taps it in....Why would my defender be looking completely away from the box for 10 seconds for that to even happen? That does not make sense. None of these errors happen to help me, only to kill me. I really don't know what to do anymore.

I love the game and have fun with it but I just want to feel like I have a chance and that I'm not going to eventually be screwed by unrealistic injury spurts or terrible teams scoring on every shot.

[Vicente14]

The injuries can be linked to your pre-season and overplaying players. Unless it's a series of broken legs and stuff.

[Yastru]

never had any prob with injuries whatsoever and been playing it since it got out with multiple clubs.

you probably overwork them in training, dont maybe rest them often and substitute whenever they fall under 70% condition.

[Yastru]

also, for the other part. your tactic is probably not being fully familiar and as a result, especially if youre playing the short pass game, defenders dont have anyone to pass ball to cause your team hasnt fully practiced getting open to get a ball.

i noticed occasional defender mistake at the start of season and in frendlies, but much less of them later on when my trained tactics had full familiarity and good morale.

[Guest]

It does sound like a tactical issue but without knowing the OP's approach we'll never be able to take anything other than wild guesses as to the cause of their frustration.

[woodwardm28]

Vicente; I train them on average and sometimes it's the same injury which is a lot rarer than the game makes it seem. Like on the same day, I have had two guys tear their hamstrings. I usually don't let people play once they get to low 70s on stamina unless they are just destroying but they aren't usually the ones getting hurt. Sometimes I'll hit start game and it will pause within the first minute saying I have an injury so I don't think it's linked to that.

Yustru; I usually have the tactic up to 100% within the first couple games.....I do play a short passing game though. I try to play somewhat of a Barca style. Press and get the ball back with a high line and then make short, quick passes down the field with overlapping runs. The only difference is I prefer my team to actually go for the goal instead of like Barca where sometimes they look like they are just passing to pass and not even wanting to score at all. I have a 4-5-1 like that and a 4-2-2-2 (listed as 4-2-4 on the game) and both can wrack up the shots and not allow many but somehow the few they do allow always seem to find the net. Maybe my goalie gets so bored that he falls asleep and doesn't see the shot coming when it finally does haha

[Veg1ta]

the simple answer is your are right, the closer football manager gets to real life the more frustrating it will become, do you really think being a real football manager is stress free and just an easy ride? no matter how secure you think you are with squad depth and tactics the game will test you, and its up to you to rise to the test, no matter how frustrating it may get theres always a shining light at the end of it.

[Puni]

the simple answer is your are right, the closer football manager gets to real life the more frustrating it will become, do you really think being a real football manager is stress free and just an easy ride? no matter how secure you think you are with squad depth and tactics the game will test you, and its up to you to rise to the test, no matter how frustrating it may get theres always a shining light at the end of it.

You say he's right, and then you claim something he hasn't said. He actually states the game fixes injuries on a premeditated basis if your squad is too large. That is simply not true. His tactical issues are just bad luck imo. Quite a few big teams have five or six games each season where they dominate but don't get a victory because their less profilic opponent is much more efficient. The team that doesn't succumb to this in a particular year usually runs off with the league title.

[looknohands]

One thing that I've noticed in support of the OP is that injuries do tend to occur to my team based largely around position; if one CM goes down injured, you can place good money on a second CM going down within a few weeks. I use a heavy squad rotation throughout the season and keep all training to average (team) or medium (personal) so it's not as though I'm running these players ragged (I also make all 3 subs at the 60 minute mark) nor do I change my tactics at any point during the game/season or on an individual basis. Just one of those things that strikes you as being odd...

[woodwardm28]

The thing that made the most mad and might be another thing that needs fixed is when I had all those injuries killing me with Swansea and I got fired, I think I was in 11th place at the time after finishing 8th and then 3rd in the league and asked for patience because of injuries and was told I hadn't proven my managerial skills and was fired like 2 games later......When I guided them to their best finish ever and the Champions League. I don't even think I was in December yet.

[Veg1ta]

You say he's right, and then you claim something he hasn't said. He actually states the game fixes injuries on a premeditated basis if your squad is too large. That is simply not true. His tactical issues are just bad luck imo. Quite a few big teams have five or six games each season where they dominate but don't get a victory because their less profilic opponent is much more efficient. The team that doesn't succumb to this in a particular year usually runs off with the league title.

he is right in the notion that the game is more fraustrating am i not right? if you read more into my post you will see that its well in accordance of the topic at hand.

[woodwardm28]

Welp, played my next game with Arsenal and again....I was up 1-0 and Vermaelen was player of the game yet Newcastle's only goal came when they crossed and Vermaelen was there unchallenged to head it and he chooses to flick it on into the middle of the box where no one is other than a Newcastle player for a tap in. A couple minutes before that, he did they exact same thing but their guy missed. I don't understand it. I draw 1-1 because of it.

[woodwardm28]

Now my friend got on so I was playing my PSG game and Bastia just scored because they lobbed it over the top and Thiago Silva is there to deal with it but instead tries to diving header it back to the goalie but it goes about a meter and the attacker behind him has a tap in. Back to back games with world class defenders doing absolutely moronic things to cost me and there hasn't been a single error to help me in any of my games. This game hates me, I'm telling you all.

[woodwardm28]

Good gosh, exact same game, they lob it over the top, Thiago Silva is there, heads it on like he's sending a through ball to the other team, Van der Wiel is there with the ball bouncing in front of him, Douchez is coming out to claim. Van der Wiel jumps and whiffs the header and the ball bounces off his back around Douchez and the attacker behind both of them runs past them both and taps it into the open net. There is nothing realistic about any of this crap and it's going to cost me another career.

Is there away to record these goals and post them so you guys can see what I am talking about?

[wwfan]

Dou you make any manual slider adjustments? If so, what are they?

[woodwardm28]

Dou you make any manual slider adjustments? If so, what are they?

Like for each player?

[wwfan]

Yes. Or d-line, tempo etc.

[woodwardm28]

Yes. Or d-line, tempo etc.

Yeah, I do for both

I usually make my line pretty high but my center defenders attacking a bit less and creative freedom a bit less

[wwfan]

That's your problem then. You are causing gaps in your formation and situations in which the defender is isolated and confused about what to do. The greater the differential between the d-line and defender mentality the greater the likelihood that players will be stretching to cover ground quickly (and thus risking injury) and that they'll get confused as to when to clear the ball or look for a teammate. Lower CF makes this even worse, as you aren't allowing them to make their own decisions when in such situations.

[woodwardm28]

That's your problem then. You are causing gaps in your formation and situations in which the defender is isolated and confused about what to do. The greater the differential between the d-line and defender mentality the greater the likelihood that players will be stretching to cover ground quickly (and thus risking injury) and that they'll get confused as to when to clear the ball or look for a teammate. Lower CF makes this even worse, as you aren't allowing them to make their own decisions when in such situations.

Well I'm afraid if I give my defenders a bunch of creative freedom, they're going to try to pull a Ronaldo out of defense......But still, these mistakes are golden rules for defenders. Do not head the ball into the center of the box but it keeps happening. Now I just had a game where I allowed 4 goals off of corners. One of them came when Andre Ayew headed it in over Ibrahimovic. Look at the height differential and tell me how that happens.

So should I untick the attacking mentality and creative freedom for them? I've never had a tactic do well when I had everything on default though

[wwfan]

I'm only going to be making educated guesses without more information about your tactic. My suggestion is to open a thread in the tactical discussion forum. It might take a little bit of effort to write up, but it will help you improve in the long term.

It would also be worth your while reading the stickied and most popular threads in the forum, if you haven't already done so.

[woodwardm28]

Well, I made a new tactic (which I am usually not good at) and tweaked it to make an away tactic and somehow I struck magic. I took over Stoke halfway through a season and finished 7th. The next season, I made some signings and finished 5th, just 3 points behind Man United and Arsenal who were in 3rd and 4th. I also was the FA Cup runner up. Finally, made some more signings and in my 2nd full season, finished 1st with Stoke and won the Euro Cup, knocking out Dortmund in quarter finals and trouncing Wolfsburg and Celtic to win. I have no idea how I did it but I did and I was as happy as if my team in real life had won the title. It's amazing how this game can do that. Anyway, It was very interesting because it didn't look likely I would win it because I had a tougher route than the teams trailing me but I somehow drew with Man City (and they only scored because of an away goal) and then beat Tottenham at White Hart Lane (who have Bale, Medel, Lewandowski, and Luis Suarez now) to clinch the title. If I had lost and Man United would have beat Norwich, I would have lost on away goals but Man United drew 0-0 and I won so I won the title by 5 points with 84. I did still have the injury problem rear it's head for a month or so with my full backs and it knocked my best striker out for 3 months but luckily I was able to cover it and didn't have any other major injury issues. Thanks for the suggestions guys! I also still had some dumb goals conceded but I also scored a lot of dumb goals so it evened out.

[lemeures]

That's your problem then. You are causing gaps in your formation and situations in which the defender is isolated and confused about what to do. The greater the differential between the d-line and defender mentality the greater the likelihood that players will be stretching to cover ground quickly (and thus risking injury) and that they'll get confused as to when to clear the ball or look for a teammate. Lower CF makes this even worse, as you aren't allowing them to make their own decisions when in such situations.

How much creative freedom is required to make a sensible decision in your opinion?

Not having a pop, but shouldn't certain things be second nature? A player pushing higher up the pitch shouldn't by default need more creative freedom to do, and should continue to play his own natural game?

[themadsheep2001]

How much creative freedom is required to make a sensible decision in your opinion?

Not having a pop, but shouldn't certain things be second nature? A player pushing higher up the pitch shouldn't by default need more creative freedom to do, and should continue to play his own natural game?

But you're not just asking it to be second nature, you are also asking them to also follow your set instructions. By lowering the CF you are telling him to shy away from his own thinking more and to follow your specific instructions more closely, even if such instructions are illogical. Its about looking for a balance.

[lemeures]

I understand that to an extent, but im sure at no point has anyone ever told them they have to basically pass to an open striker!

[woodwardm28]

Haha yeah. I don't think they would be like "uhhh what do I do......uhh......let it bounce off my back, that has to be what my manager wants."

[wwfan]

I understand that to an extent, but im sure at no point has anyone ever told them they have to basically pass to an open striker!

That's reductionist thinking. The player has been told to look for a short pass and to not deviate from that instruction for any reason. He's looked and looked for a short pass, and not found one. He's now beginning to be put under pressure and needs to do something or risk getting caught in possession. The clear-headed move is to clear the ball. However, if he panics, he might do something stupid, like hit a blind, short back pass to the keeper or try to thread a more difficult short pass to his defensive partner. The result is the intercept. He didn't just decide to pass to the opposition striker.

[woodwardm28]

That's reductionist thinking. The player has been told to look for a short pass and to not deviate from that instruction for any reason. He's looked and looked for a short pass, and not found one. He's now beginning to be put under pressure and needs to do something or risk getting caught in possession. The clear-headed move is to clear the ball. However, if he panics, he might do something stupid, like hit a blind, short back pass to the keeper or try to thread a more difficult short pass to his defensive partner. The result is the intercept. He didn't just decide to pass to the opposition striker.

Well my defenders have a pass style of about halfway and a creative freedom of just under the halfway mark

[Gooner SJ]

Well my defenders have a pass style of about halfway and a creative freedom of just under the halfway mark

You don't need to worry about the defenders creative freedom slider. You should also know that if you tick that box, shouts will have zero effect on what the defender will do.

[Kenco]

That's reductionist thinking. The player has been told to look for a short pass and to not deviate from that instruction for any reason. He's looked and looked for a short pass, and not found one. He's now beginning to be put under pressure and needs to do something or risk getting caught in possession. The clear-headed move is to clear the ball. However, if he panics, he might do something stupid, like hit a blind, short back pass to the keeper or try to thread a more difficult short pass to his defensive partner. The result is the intercept. He didn't just decide to pass to the opposition striker.

This is exactly what happened to Liverpool IRL in the early stages of last season; trying to adapt to a new system where the priority is to stick to the instructions of keeping the ball at all costs, the defenders all made mistakes involving intercepted backpasses or being caught in possession when everybody in the crowd is shouting at them to hoof it.

[tajj 7]

I agree somewhat on the injuries thing, the game does seem to like injuring players from the same position a lot, I've had 4 right backs all injured at the same time, all 3 players that can play AML etc. I think the injuries in FM13 are a little over the top. The number is probably ok but the length of injuries is on average too long, IRL players will get niggles and knocks and go out for a week or two max, when a player IRL gets an injury of 6 weeks its quite big news. In FM that's about a standard injury 6-8 weeks.

[jonomagloneo]

I think it kind of makes sense for a particular position to be prone to injuries, particuarly if you're physically asking a lot of the position in some way, e.g. attacking wing backs or ball-winning midfielders.

[darthrodent]

As human beings we are very selective with our memories—probably a good thing when death by smilidon (sabre-tooth tiger) was a real possibility. I'm not implying I know how anyone else's game 'behaves' but I can tell you from personal experience—not so much anymore since I've mellowed with age—that I used to make similar claims: "Players get injured EVERY game!" or "The opposition only require one shot to score, yet I have 32 and don't score 1," forgetting of course that the last time it happened was 10 games ago and made ever more ridiculous by the fact I just finished 4th in the Premiership with Norwich City. What was I complaining about again?

If you actually pay attention to injuries in real life, you would probably be surprised at just how long the injury lists actually are. I call this 'FM Persecution Theory': "I spent good money on a game and you're going to take elements of it away from me by not allowing me to use some of my players due to injury?" Any simulation has to find a harmonious equilibrium between reality and enjoyment and the closer to reality it gets the more frustrating it can be. Imagine a game that when you die you can never play it again; after all you're dead.

Sure it can be frustrating when it appears that some of the game's user inputs are manifested a little too strongly in the game world. Does it annoy me that a bad reaction to a team-talk can lead to a silly mistake? Sure it does. But at least the game attempts to deliver that feedback graphically as extreme or 'unrealistic' as it may appear.

Sometimes we forget that FM is just a game (I know I do). Those little blobs floating around are little Java (or whatever language) elements with a myriad of variables attached to them. The personification of these little PNG files with comments like "Shouldn't it be second nature?" or "A player would never do that", when you think about it, are ridiculous (I do it myself!). Creative Freedom in my mind is a 'behaviour modifier' or 'behaviour limiter' and player attributes a probability engine that determines how effective any behaviour is implemented successfully. My point is that I would much rather have 'gamey' sliders and have my players behave like bots that I can micromanage than no 'gamey' sliders and players acting at will, governed by their attributes. I find there to be a nice balance between the two, especially in conjunction with Preferred Moves; the user can choose to unleash a player's natural tendencies and leave him to his own devices, or he can stifle or limit them as needs be.