laxplayer Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 So I've gotten Millwall into the EPL and am in season 4. I've been alternating between 3 formations (a more defensive 4-1-2-2-1, a balanced 4-4-2, and more attacking 4-2-3-1). I've had good success with all of them at one point or another, especially when I rotated them in a timely manner. I play most frequently with the 41221 and 4231, both of which were generated from cleon's and wwfans' threads. Unfortunately now, i seem to be having the same problem with all of them: namely my opponents tightly mark and close down everyone with a great deal of success. No matter what shouts I use to try and counter, nothing seems to work that well. When my players get the ball, they get shut down, and all their options are tightly marked so they're forced to either dump the ball long or they lose it. My question is this: Generally speaking, what counters this? A shout? OR do I need to alter some roles? Give some individual instructions? I've tried using CM/D and DLP roles for my CMs. I've tried making my wingers DW in order to have them drop deep to help vs. the pressure, but that didn't work as the opponents still tightly marked them. I've also tried increasing tempo and getting the ball forward in order to keep them running, but this seems to end up in either a shootout 4-3 game or I get blown out 0-4 in the first half. Here is my 4-2-3-1 setup FBL - WB/Att CD - both CD/D FBR - FB/Supp MCR - CM/Supp MCL - CM/D AMR - W/Supp AMC - AMC/Supp AML - IF/Att ST - AF/Att Attacking/Fluid Passing:shorter ClosingDown: press more Roaming: More Roaming And here is my 4-1-2-2-1 setup FBL/FBR - Both WB/auto CD - Both CD/D DMC - Anchor/D MCR - AP/Supp MCL - CM/Supp AMR - W/Supp AML - IF/Att FC - CF/A and sometimes Treq/A or DLF/Supp depending on which of my strikers are playing Standard/Fluid All default Counter Attack: on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkmixer84 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 When I find my players with no time/space on the ball I use the shout drop deeper. This makes a world of a difference for me and with that attacking 4231 your players are going to be pushed up very high. Another option would be to use the shout run at defense if you have good dribblers. Pressing systems can be undone by just one of your players getting past his man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkmixer84 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Also with your 4231 you should probably use very fluid as you have 0 specialized roles. Also I would recommend using default passing instead of shorter since you're using an attacking strategy (just my opinion there). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bieritarier Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 very much interested in a solution to this problem as well. there must be a way to turn this into an advantage rather than relying on luck, but I've thried about a million things now (replayed a match recently about 15 times to find a solution but failed). The frustrating part is that right now about every team is pressing high up the pitch.. oh man what haven'T I tried. amongst others I've tried Drop deeper - same result. get ball forward - voucher for being hit on the counter switch to attacking strategy (get more men forward to win back the long punts) - see above. clear ball to flanks (when plaing with wingers, I quite often play a narrow 4-1-2-1-2) - see above switch to a defensive strategy - same result. switch an additional player to defensive duty to keep him back - still marked tightly with no way to go. pass into space - I can'T tell the difference pass to feet (yea, running out of ideas) - desaster. run at defense - players get tackled after two meters if they ever start to run at all. What I notice is: my back 4 are tightly marked as soon as they are about 20 yards away from my penalty area. There is no occasion where two opposition players attack one of my guys - they close down, force the player to hold the ball and go wide, taking away the passing options in the middle. What p**ses me off is that the guys wont' try to turn around and pass bakc to the keeper. they will face the opponent and in the end either get tackled or smash the ball into the closing down players. I'D really like to know two things. How can I reliably break down their press and punish them for this crap? how cna I replicate this press. I got no clue - either multiple of my guys attack the same player, running around like headless chicken in the process, or the ball is long long gone before they reach their man. I am so frustrated right now I want to smash something. My setups 4-1-2-1-2 control short press more more roaming float crosses default marking more expressive fluid GK - GK-D D FBL - Full Back - Auto DCL - Central Defender - D DCR - Central Defender - D FB - Full Back - Auto DM - Defensive Midfileder - D CML - Central Midfielder - A CMR - Central Midfielde - Auto AMC -Advances Playmaker - S FCL - Advanced Forward - A FCR - Deep Lying Forward - S 4-2-3-1 tactical setup pretty much the same, apart from phil - balanced pressing - default GK - GK - D DL - Full Back - Auto DR - Full Back - Auto DCL/R - Central Defender - D MCL - Central Midfielder - D MCR - Deep Lying Playmaker - S AML - Inside Forward - S AMC - Attacking Midfielder - S AMR - Winger - Attack FC - Deep Lying Forward - S/Advanced Forward - A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robterrace Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 How about switching to an instruction of Close opponent down and hassle opponent yourself. Hopefully that would mean that you'd get any turnover of possession further up the pitch and leave your opponent less space to close you down. To try and break through, take the 'more expressive' and 'more roaming' off, and use 'play through defence' and 'play out of defence'. Hopefully, if you've got players with decent decisions, vision and passing, then that may work.. If not, I'll have to have another look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Do you find the 41221 goes a little better than the 4231? The attacking strategy as a default is often counter productive—players play to quickly, rush things, and force the ball into areas it isnt yet ready to move into normally resulting in a loss of possession and then you're back to trying to win it back. As your players tire mistakes happen more frequently and its a disaster. My opinion is that attacking should be used sparingly, as a constrast to whatever your usual style is. Use it in a smash-and-grab style, where you switch to it for ten mins, up your risk-reward and try and nick a goal before going more conservative again as the opposition look to strike back. It’s almost an aggressive tempo switch to shock the opposition, not a defacto playing style to employ. Lots of movement normally breaks up the press. 4231 is usually good because it creates good triangles, and therefore passing options. You've set more roaming so thats good, but what about creative freedom—can sometimes help if your players can handle it. Also, how big have you made the pitch? You're playing short passing so I'm guessing you're not playing narrow and the attacking mentality will push you up the pitch so you’ve effectively made the pitch smaller which just makes the aggressive press against you easier—you’re playing into their hands! Up your passing length, lower your mentality, keep defensive line in the middle at most, playing wider is probably better too and, optionally, you might find upping through balls can help as a heavy press invariably creates more gaps to exploit (the problem being that you have less time to visualise the gap and complete the pass/movement even if you do spot it). These are all general tactical advices, whether your team can handle the different playing style or not is a whole different matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxplayer Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 @drinkmixer84 and Robterrace - Thanks for all the suggestions. I've made a couple changes and things have looked a bit better. I've won a few games in a row and opponents are now giving me more space for the most part. @furiousuk - The 41221 tactic seems to keep the score down and I usually don't get blown out, but I also don't seem to have too much in the way of offense for the most part. It usually comes down to a fluke goal, or my CD pops in a header off a corner for a 1-0 win. I mostly use it in away games and vs. better opponents (I'm a mid-table team at the moment). I also find that occasionally flipping the strategy up to Attacking in the 41221 will result in a quick goal, or at least some good chances. I'll try using it with my 4231 as you've suggested as well, because yes, I had noticed that my players did seem to be rushing a lot of things. I'd end up trying to slow them down a little using shouts like "Work Ball into Box" or "Retain Possession" with only mixed results. Makes sense that I should change that to Control or Standard. It seems to have helped a bit as now they are making smarter passes. Lastly, I had to read that last paragraph of yours a few times for it to sink into my thick head. I get it now! thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkmixer84 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 FM13 is quite a different beast from previous versions, you really need to custom tailor your tactics to match your players (or find the players you want for your tactic). Like you the 2 formations i use are the 4-2-3-1 and the 4-1-2-2-1, but I prefer the 4-2-3-1 and will use it anytime my opponent does not use a defensive mid. Here's my dual pivot 4-2-3-1: RB: FB-A CB: CD-D CB: CD-D LB: WB-S(sometimes Attack if i think i can dominate my opponent) CM: DLP-S CM: DLP-S RW: W-S AMC: AP-S LW: IF-A ST: Def Fwd-A (i have a certain striker who makes an excellent DF so i've used him as such to great success, but i find the AF-A to be good when i'm using a sub or different striker) Strategy: Control (I use Standard when i think i'm weaker than the opposition and I enable counter attacking) Philosophy: Balanced Passing: Shorter Closing down: Press more Playmaker: AP-S Everything else default and unchecked. I've overachieved the last 3 seasons with this 4-2-3-1 and its worked very well. There's WAY more than one way to do things in football, this is just the way i do it and hopefully it can give you an idea or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonomagloneo Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yeah, I'm not keen on an attacking mentality, particularly not with a 4-2-3-1 unless you're desperate for a goal. Even then I'll try shouts before resorting to it. I also heartily endorse a balanced/standard or control set-up with a 4-2-3-1, maintaining some stability behind your attacking players. I like the more roaming/creative freedom ideas, but I'd perhaps want to change your CM(s) to a DLP(s) if doing so. As I've just discussed in the 4-2-3-1 thread, I prefer a stopper/cover CB pairing so you have someone stepping up and covering the space behind the midfield. Edit: a DLP(d) may help you build from the back more effectively, either in the DM or CM position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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