So close to giving up. At wits end

[allyc31]

Hi,

First of all, let me start by saying that i don't think the ME is broken. I'm aware the issues you i'm having are down to me and my lack of knowledge. i've played the game for 10 years but usually with downloaded tactics.

About a week a go, i decided to give FM13 another go. I struggled with it when it first came out but i started to lurk around here, read a few excellent posts (wwfans 12 point guide) and the Fm 10 Tactial framework book and was inspired to give the game another chance.

I realise FM is evolving so i wanted so desperately to get a hold on it so it (and i realise how melodramatic this sounds) it doesn't slip away.

But i just can't. Nothing i do seems to work.

Currently i'm playing a 4-5-1 with Everton which looks like this

GK - Defend

FB - Auto

CB - Defend

DM - Anchor Man

CM - Att

CM - Support

2x Inside forwards Att (on opposite side of there preffered feet)

Dlp Support

Team Attack

Balance fluid (control/attack)

Passing shorter

creative freedom default (i'm 10th in the team comparison)

marking default

pressing default

crossing drill

Passing

Ass man handles opp instructs (even though he has tactics of 15, every opp instruction is tackle hard....which can't be right)

The idea being that the ball is played to the dip who drops deep to make space for the 3 attack players.

Problems are;

But none of them run into the space...and when they do, the dlp plays it flipping backwards!

Baines flat out refuse to run past the inside forward lookign for the through ball (even when on wing back attack and the inside forward is set to support)

From watching the matches, it seems like EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has 'hold up ball on even' which gives the opp plenty of time to recover

Or every players first touch is awful, that more often than not, they end up facing towards our goal which, again gives the opp plenty of time to get back into shape

Defenders, for no reason, hoofs the ball up field losing procession

no matter what i try, the football is dross and i usually get beat.

I'm at my wits end.

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, someone help me.

Otherwise i fear my 10 year love affair with this game could be over

[wwfan]

I'm never a fan of the two support FBs / two attacking inside forwards combo. It channels play and is too one-dimensional. You will never stretch the defence wide and will be 100% reliant on TBs. It's far better to have at least one wide player on support and his FB on attack to encourage the overlap.

I'm slightly concerned with the short passing adjustment. Your wide players are ranging high, which puts them out of range of any passes from the back. You are pretty much reliant on the Anchor Man feeding the two CMs, which he's not going to do naturally. If he's not open, the defence are likely to clear the ball. This will result in the ball arriving slowly to the DLF, which seems to be what you are seeing.

Creative freedom and creativity are different things. If you have low creativity, it can be useful to ramp up the creative freedom to compensate. However, in general it is better to related CF to the number of specialised roles you employ, so fluid seems a good choice.

I'd forget about OIs until you are sure your basic tactic is working as intended.

[allyc31]

Thanks for the quick reply.

So, the fundamental idea of the tactic wasn't good?

Short passing because i didn't want the player just hoofing her long, however, from your reply, i fear i may have misunderstood this setting.

I had previously tried the inside forward on the right and a wide mid on the left (osman) and baines on attack but, again, couldn't get the overlap working.

I'll go back to the drawing board.

Any other advice though on the front two (dlp and inside forward)? The inside forward is Gaiten who has decent pace and off the ball yet he never seems to move into any space. Anyway of getting him to cut inside before he gets the ball?

[allyc31]

Just to be clear, i don't want to win every game.

i just want to get my tactic to an acceptable level where i can begin to learn WHY i don't win every game.

At the minute i don't have a snowballs chance at discovering anything as i never have the ball!

[olivermain83]

With regards to the short passing setting I don't think you're misunderstanding. I think wwfan is saying that the shape of your team with the roles/duties you've set aren't conducive so a short passing game. Imagine the ball with your anchor man. Too many players forward have an attack duty so will run away from the ball trying to get in behind. Too many players behind the play have support duties so wont try to run beyond the ball.

The trick is to get a nice balance of roles/duties across the pitch so that there's nearly always someone finding space.

Maybe try giving Baines an attack duty and the IF in front of him a support duty. Changing the CM(s) to DLP(S) will stop him moving forward as much too and perhaps give another passing option.

The best way to tell is watch when your players are hoofing it and try to see why. Have they got any easy passes on? If not then identify which player you think should have been offering themselves as an option and change their role and/or duty.

[allyc31]

Thanks for the reply buddy.

That does make sense. I'll get up and give it another bash.

Thanks for your help guys.

[furiousuk]

Playing attack right off the bat and short passing is risky in my book, infact I have quite an aversion to the attack strategy. Attack strategy has its uses, sure, but it is for short, contained bursts of intense energy to try and nick a goal. Playing it straight away and/or playing it for most of the game is a recipe for being sloppy, losing the ball too often and tiring your players.

Not to say you can't play a very attack oriented game though, I just wouldn't do it on attack.

I also agree with the short passing probably causing you issues, for all the same reasons already stated.

[allyc31]

So,

I went and started again. Tried a 4231....couldn't get space for my cf

Then a 451. Same problem

Then decided on a flat 442 with a dlf(s) and a poacher.....and it seems to be working. Tactic is doing exactly what I want it to do.

I figure I'll stick with this for a while, get the basics of analysing the me down.

I couldn't have done it either without you guys help.

So, cheers

I owe you all beers.

[furiousuk]

442 is a far simpler base concept to understand (particularly if you're English) than 451 or 4231. It does, of course, have complexity but it works very well without anything complex and because the premise is fairly simple it is quite hard to get wrong.

A 4231 can be very tricky to get right, I've tried a number of times but never quite got it how I really wanted it, I had some success but always found that there were certain situations that would always make me come unstuck, sure I can swap to a better suited formation but I wanted to get the 4231 working in all situations because it should be versatile enough. Its tough in FM because of a few movement and positioning issues which dont help. It is easy to get the midfield wrong, getting the AM is similarly tricky and making the front 4 work together can be complex.

The 451 has similar difficulties, particularly with 'lesser-abled' players. I haven't really got it working rock-solid in proper lower leagues, certainly not as effectively and robustly as the 442. It creates a complex midfield area that requires a good balance to work well and linking the front 3 together similarly requires some thought and planning.

When a new FM comes out I always reach for the 442 to learn any differences with the ME and any new mechanisms in the game (i.e. player movement, passing repertoire, AI tactical choices etc etc). It is highly adaptable so you can put a spin on it if you want, players normally can be fitted into it (the notable modern exception is the wide IF, a guy who is not really a winger but not really a through-the-middle striker either, DMs dont count because they'll usually rock it at MC) and, as I say, if you make fairly logical choices for player roles/duties then you can't really go wrong.

[Santa Claus]

The inside forward is Gaiten who has decent pace and off the ball yet he never seems to move into any space. Anyway of getting him to cut inside before he gets the ball?

If I'm not mistaken, Inside Forward role doesn't have First Touch as required attribute, so from that you can conclude he won't cut in before he gets the ball as he would require good First Touch to recieve the ball while he is running. Inside Forward's job is primarily to recieve the ball on the wing and cut in with ball in possession.

That's what I think at least.

Another thought: I like FM 13 and this new ME. It makes you think, it makes you try new things, it makes you learn a thing or two about tactics. It's not just playmaker behind poacher and there you go.

[allyc31]

Thanks a lot Santa Claus (there's a sentence I haven't said in a while...)!

I read what you said about the first touch, looked at the game and seen Adv Playmaker has first touch. Changed him to a one of those on Attack and its working much better now.

Cheers!!!