How do you get both strikers to score in a 4-4-2 system?

[ramoniazzz]

Hi all,

I was just wondering the other day that ever since FM07, I've always used the same tactic (4-3-3 with a CDM and two attacking wingers) because I never managed to get a 4-4-2 system (or any other system with more than one 'real' striker) to work properly. My strikers would always walk in each others way and prevent the other from scoring. Actually it would mostly be my wingers or CAM to score the goals. The only save I've ever had in which I was succesful with a 4-4-2 system was at Chelsea, playing Shevchenko and Drogba with Lampard and Ballack behind them.

My question for you guys is;

How can you get two strikers to both score goals rather than one striker supporting the other or your wingers/CAM taking over the goal scoring.

Looking forward to your tactical approaches

Thanks in advance

[Cougar2010]

With two strikers up front you always have one more advanced who is a goal threat while the other is more of a 2nd/supporting link player.

That doesn't mean the 2nd striker can't or won't score though.

[ramoniazzz]

With two strikers up front you always have one more advanced who is a goal threat while the other is more of a 2nd/supporting link player.

That doesn't mean the 2nd striker can't or won't score though.

I know, but what happens with me is that either no striker really turns into a goal machine or just one of the two, which results in the other striker becoming a supporting targetman which is not what I'm looking for.

[Falahk]

looks like a question for the tactics forum, a mod should move it there, that said we probably need a bit more information aswell, which players are you using? how is your team set up? etc

[Cougar2010]

I know, but what happens with me is that either no striker really turns into a goal machine or just one of the two, which results in the other striker becoming a supporting targetman which is not what I'm looking for.

Show me a real life team where they have two goal machines up front?

For the record last season both my STs scored 18 goals but that was somewhat of a oddity as my supporting ST is normally more around 10-12 goals a season.

[ramoniazzz]

The strikers in question are:

I was looking to play an ordinary 4-4-2 system and I personally wouldn't know how to set up the tactics aspect in order to get this to work.

Oh and sorry for placing this thread in the wrong section.

[ramoniazzz]

Show me a real life team where they have two goal machines up front?

For the record last season both my STs scored 18 goals but that was somewhat of a oddity as my supporting ST is normally more around 10-12 goals a season.

Well it's not that I'm trying to make a point here, it's just me wondering if it's possible and if so, how.

[Falahk]

the logical chose here would probably be to use Calleja as a targetman/attack and Pocta as a DLF/support or a trequartista

you need the slower guy to be closer to goal while the more creative guy can work between the lines and use his pace to get into scoring positions

[Cougar2010]

Well it's not that I'm trying to make a point here, it's just me wondering if it's possible and if so, how.

Looking at the two players the most basic way I would use would be:

Calleja - Complete forward (Support)

Pocta - Poacher (Attack)

Add in a good balance of midfielders/wingers and both STs should score although you would always expect the poacher to score more over a season.

[james_wilko]

Disagree @ Falahk, Pocta is more likely to score and Calleja looks great as a DLF support.

Set Pocta as an advanced forward/poacher and Calleja as a DLF support. Change his runs from deep to often and he should still score a decent amount.

[ramoniazzz]

the logical chose here would probably be to use Calleja as a targetman/attack and Pocta as a DLF/support or a trequartista

you need the slower guy to be closer to goal while the more creative guy can work between the lines and use his pace to get into scoring positions

I'll try that. Minor note: Most of Pocta's goals are headers too but he's very creative on the pitch though.

[ramoniazzz]

Tried the following, would like to hear what you think.

Formation:

Tactic:

Midfielders:

[Cougar2010]

IMO

One of your STs needs to be a support duty so he drops between the lines to receive possession, as I've said above I would use Calleja as a complete forward but a target man or DLF on support duty would also work to some degree.

Your midfield & defence needs a little work - both your fullbacks & your MC are on automatic and with an attacking team strategy this means they will be on attack duty. At the very least you need to change your MC to a support or defend duty while leaving your fulbacks on attack could work as they'll overlap your supporting wingers. I suspect though it will leave you a little light in defence and leave the opposition too much space to work in.

[ramoniazzz]

Played a match against Litex for the Champions Cup using the following tactic:

Won 4-0

2x Petr Pocta (and 1 assist)

1x Jorge Calleja (and 1 assist)

1x Güven Eroglu

I noticed that my wingers tend to dribble to the centre of the field rather than dribbling down the flanks followed by a cross, so I'll need to have a look at that. Also noticed that Arne Bergmann played a bit too attacking so should I make him a defensive central midfielder?

[Cougar2010]

Having looked at your players a little closer I would be tempted to go with something like the following as a start point:

STr - Calleja (Complete forward/support)

STl - Pocta (Poacher/attack)

ML - Djurdjevic (Wide midfielder/support)

MCl - Jurcik (Central midfield/attack)

MCr - Bergmann (Deep lying PM/support)

MR - Eroglu (Winger/attack)

DL - ? (Full back/attack)

DR - ? (Full back/support)

Thats far from set in stone though and there are many other ways to use your players that would also work.

[sjm]

I'm playing FM11, so caveats apply.

My star striker scores for fun wherever he plays in my system, and the others score a lot too, but not as many. When he's playing in the deeper role, his excellent dribbling skills allow him to create chances for himself. He's right-footed, and my deeper striker plays on the left. So when he plays there he's told to cut inside in addition to running with the ball often. Also told to run from deep often; with great passers in midfield and his excellent off the ball and anticipation, he likes to make that incisive run to get on the end of through balls. He also has the avoids using weaker foot PPM that probably helps make him cut inside a lot more.

The only guy who doesn't score much for me is the one who really plays a support role; he's the only one who plays lots of through balls, he's not that great a dribbler, and he's left-footed, so he gets encouraged to move out on the wing and cross the ball as well. He's also set to only run from deep sometimes, so it's no surprise he's not getting on to the end of chances. Plus he has the plays with back to goal PPM.

You'll also create a lot more chances for your forwards if your wingers are crossing the ball rather than cutting inside and taking pot shots. This presupposes that your strikers are able to get on the end of crosses of course.

So I'd say that a lot of it is down to the players you have and what they're good at. If you have a player who can take the ball past 3 or 4 players on his own, it's much easier for him to score goals than one who's told to hold back and get involved in the build up. I don't think you really need to have one of your strikers in a support role, but I'd definitely advocate having one playing slightly deeper (slightly lower mentality) than the other to ensure they aren't in each others way all the time.

Note that I used classic tactics, so no roles are assigned as such. I can post my player's settings and profiles if you want when I get home.

EDIT: BTW my top striker scored over 40 goals last season IIRC (averaging about 1 per match). The others get between about 10 and 25 a season depending on how many games they play - I'm a big fan of rotation.

[ramoniazzz]

These are the backs I use mostly:

Adrian Fec:

Alcides:

Esteban Barahona:

Would turning Bergmann into a supporting deep lying playmaker fix the problem of him joining every single attack? Because I would want him play behind the Jurcik.

[Cougar2010]

Also noticed that Arne Bergmann played a bit too attacking so should I make him a defensive central midfielder?

The problem you have with Bergmann is that he is a bit too good and using him defensively will feel like he could do much more than you are asking him to.

[ramoniazzz]

I'm playing FM11, so caveats apply.

My star striker scores for fun wherever he plays in my system, and the others score a lot too, but not as many. When he's playing in the deeper role, his excellent dribbling skills allow him to create chances for himself. He's right-footed, and my deeper striker plays on the left. So when he plays there he's told to cut inside in addition to running with the ball often. Also told to run from deep often; with great passers in midfield and his excellent off the ball and anticipation, he likes to make that incisive run to get on the end of through balls. He also has the avoids using weaker foot PPM that probably helps make him cut inside a lot more.

The only guy who doesn't score much for me is the one who really plays a support role; he's the only one who plays lots of through balls, he's not that great a dribbler, and he's left-footed, so he gets encouraged to move out on the wing and cross the ball as well. He's also set to only run from deep sometimes, so it's no surprise he's not getting on to the end of chances. Plus he has the plays with back to goal PPM.

You'll also create a lot more chances for your forwards if your wingers are crossing the ball rather than cutting inside and taking pot shots. This presupposes that your strikers are able to get on the end of crosses of course.

So I'd say that a lot of it is down to the players you have and what they're good at. If you have a player who can take the ball past 3 or 4 players on his own, it's much easier for him to score goals than one who's told to hold back and get involved in the build up. I don't think you really need to have one of your strikers in a support role, but I'd definitely advocate having one playing slightly deeper (slightly lower mentality) than the other to ensure they aren't in each others way all the time.

Note that I used classic tactics, so no roles are assigned as such. I can post my player's settings and profiles if you want when I get home.

EDIT: BTW my top striker scored over 40 goals last season IIRC (averaging about 1 per match). The others get between about 10 and 25 a season depending on how many games they play - I'm a big fan of rotation.

Cheers

Yeah Pocta used to score about 50 + each season and Calleja hardly scored since I only play with one striker and if Pocta is fit, he plays.

I applied your advice on making my wingers cross instead of cutting inside, I hope it helps!

[Guest]

When it comes to strikers there needs to be more than a caveat when referencing FM11, a lot of the advice given off the back of that version cannot be directly applied to FM13.

Having read sjm's post some of the broad strokes about getting the right balance are on point though.

[ramoniazzz]

Played my MCL as a Deep Lying PM, supportive and the first message I got from my assistant-manager was that my midfield was getting outnumbered by the opponent's midfield.

We drew 2-2 to Slovacko and we were saved by Pocta who came onto the pitch in the second half (when we were behind 0-2). Calleja played a horrible match and Djurdjevic kept cutting inside whilst his instructions are to cross from the deep.

Any suggestions on what to do about this?

[Guest]

If the player's natural tendency is to cut inside & he's not the type to do a job for the team then you could be on a losing wicket, no matter how much you tell him to do something he might just carry on doing what he wants.

If the player(s) do not fit your system you either change your system to utilise the strengths or sell the player(s) & bring in replacements who better suit your tactics.

[Cougar2010]

Played my MCL as a Deep Lying PM, supportive and the first message I got from my assistant-manager was that my midfield was getting outnumbered by the opponent's midfield.

We drew 2-2 to Slovacko and we were saved by Pocta who came onto the pitch in the second half (when we were behind 0-2). Calleja played a horrible match and Djurdjevic kept cutting inside whilst his instructions are to cross from the deep.

Any suggestions on what to do about this?

If the player's natural tendency is to cut inside & he's not the type to do a job for the team then you could be on a losing wicket, no matter how much you tell him to do something he might just carry on doing what he wants.

If the player(s) do not fit your system you either change your system to utilise the strengths or sell the player(s) & bring in replacements who better suit your tactics.

Djurdjevic is right footed so its more natural for him to come inside playing at ML, his support orders won't help while the opposition manager could also be instructing his team to show Djurdjevic inside.

It shouldn't be a huge problem though but it was the reason I suggested having an attacking fullback at DL to overlap and provide width.

[ramoniazzz]

Djurdjevic is right footed so its more natural for him to come inside playing at ML, his support orders won't help while the opposition manager could also be instructing his team to show Djurdjevic inside.

It shouldn't be a huge problem though but it was the reason I suggested having an attacking fullback at DL to overlap and provide width.

I won previous match 2-0 against Most and Fec did a great job providing Calleja with crosses (though not from the deep), resulting in one goal for him that match. Pocta was invisible though.

Djurdjevic kept cutting inside but I asked one of my trainers to make him familiar with 'hugging the touchline'