Will the Reorganization of the Italian League be Included in the Next Iteration of the Game?

[duccio]

If I get this right, it seems there will be a restructuring of the Italian league where the current Series C1 A/B and C2 A/B will be combined into one Serie C A/B/C. Italy would then have 3 professional levels above Serie D in the place of the current 4 levels. These changes should be in place for the 2014-15 season, with the 2013-14 being a transitional season where C1 A/B have no relegations and C2 A/B no promotions.

Will these changes be included in FM14? I certainly hope they will, and it would be awesome if Serie D was included among the playable divisions aswell, so that (at least) 4 levels of the Italian Football pyramid would continue to be available in the game.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lega_Pro_Prima_Divisione

Google translation

[duccio]

This is a better presentation of the new league structure:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campionato_italiano_di_calcio#Riforma_del_2014

[Guest]

I'd imagine that it would be very difficult for SI to not include these changes, might be worth a post in the Italian data issues thread.

[duccio]

I think something similar was included a few years ago when the German FA made changes to their league, so it would seem likely that SI would build the alterations into the game - especially as the league structure reformation in Italy affects the 20013-14 season as well. I will post about this in the data issues.

Adding more divisions to the Italian and other big leagues has been topping my wishlist for years, and I hope this does not end up in effect reducing the number of tiers in Italy. Maintaining the same number of levels would require adding Serie D. I realize there are extensive fan-made leagues, but they are not quite the same as the fully active divisions in an "out of the box" game.

[Guest]

The inclusion of Serie D would probably depend on how confident SI are on the accuracy of the research data & how many sub divisions are at that level but as there are 4 playable tiers in Sweden with the lowest level having 6 or 7 sub divisions I cannot see a reason why a 4th tier in Italy cannot be maintained.

[duccio]

There are 9 subdivisions in Serie D, and it means that there would be 14 separate league competitions in 2014-15 and onwards. It is more than in England and Sweden, but I still hope SI consider it doable. If you look at Serie D squads in FM13, it is obvious they are reasonably well scouted. But Serie D is currently a feeder league to the lowest active league, and SI might want feeder leagues to Serie D (should it be added) to be well scouted as well. The level below Serie D, Eccellenza, has 28 sub divisions with 476 teams. That sounds like quite a large number. On the other hand, while I appreciate SI's aspiration for realism and accuracy, the thing is I really do not care that much about how precisely crappy lower league players have been researched, as long as there are somewhat true to life rosters and no unrealistic hidden super players. In any case players will come and go and be replaced by imaginary ones. The clubs and their facilities should be much more easy to research anyway.

[Svenc]

If that is of no concern, isn't there a fan file available that expands on the tiers available? The German community is comparably small (the game hasn't been sold in ages due to licensing issues), but each year I see such a file appearing. In any case, it isn't in the game either, and that's "only" five subdivisions with about 20 teams each depending on the region. It used to be just three prior to 2012. Still an area of concern to some, due to the reserve teams actually competing in the competitive tiers rather than their own reserve leagues. Something not considered by the AI no matter in which country -- whilst in reality clubs have an interest in seeing their reserves as high up the tier as possible so that their youth prospect can compete at the highest possible levels, reserve teams are always fodder and there for the taking for any opponent in FM. Needs major work. Has been the case for years.

[Nobby_McDonald]

If it is confirmed in time before the game development ceases then it will be in FM14.

[Overmars]

Setting up the structure takes minutes to an hour. Even I can do it. Scouting and populating the data takes forever, and I'm always impressed by how deep the database reaches. It could be my favourite thing about the game. Even if the scouting accuracy is somewhat questionable, it is great to have the real names involved.

[duccio]

If that is of no concern, isn't there a fan file available that expands on the tiers available? The German community is comparably small (the game hasn't been sold in ages due to licensing issues), but each year I see such a file appearing. In any case, it isn't in the game either, and that's "only" five subdivisions with about 20 teams each depending on the region. It used to be just three prior to 2012. Still an area of concern to some, due to the reserve teams actually competing in the competitive tiers rather than their own reserve leagues. Something not considered by the AI no matter in which country -- whilst in reality clubs have an interest in seeing their reserves as high up the tier as possible so that their youth prospect can compete at the highest possible levels, reserve teams are always fodder and there for the taking for any opponent in FM. Needs major work. Has been the case for years.

I have used the German fan file in the past, and I thought it was pretty well done. One downside with it was that there were clubs with no players even within the active leagues. Quite understandable with the large number of clubs of course. Like you say, the game has not been sold in Germany for a while, and that is probably why fixing the bug that prevents clubs from a couple of German regional divisions from being promoted to the lowest active level has not been a priority.

If it is confirmed in time before the game development ceases then it will be in FM14.

Are you in a position to confirm this, or is this wishful thinking / trust in SI to keep realism a top goal?

Setting up the structure takes minutes to an hour. Even I can do it. Scouting and populating the data takes forever, and I'm always impressed by how deep the database reaches. It could be my favourite thing about the game. Even if the scouting accuracy is somewhat questionable, it is great to have the real names involved.

Yes. Having somewhat accurate rosters is more important in the lower leagues than having every player attribute just right. In FM13 (and previous versions) promotion to the lowest active level seems to depend solely on the clubs' reputations, which means that maybe less than third of Serie D clubs currently have any kind of realistic chance of being promoted to C2 (without extensive reloading to make the unlikely happen). If it would be the same with Eccellenza, the number of clubs that should be scouted could be considered to be lower than the number of clubs in Eccellenza. Though, I must say that I think promotion from the non-playable feeder leagues should have more randomness to it than it in FM13 has. Just look at the clubs that were IRL promoted from Serie D this past season that in FM have practically no chance of doing the same because of their low (perhaps accurate) reputation.

[Koki]

Are you in a position to confirm this, or is this wishful thinking / trust in SI to keep realism a top goal?

From experience I'd say this is how SI usually go about their business. If there are changes to a league's rules, then it should be reflected in the game. Only possible of course if the changes were known at a point where they could still code them into this year's game.

[Nobby_McDonald]

Are you in a position to confirm this, or is this wishful thinking / trust in SI to keep realism a top goal?

SI confirm this numerous times year after year when people ask questions of this nature.

[duccio]

SI confirm this numerous times year after year when people ask questions of this nature.

That is the gist I have gotten over the years, but I guess at this point its just guess work whether changes are in. I do think the Italian FA decided about them months ago already.

[Stantoner]

The game is the most comprehensive one out their, i wouldnt even doubt that this new structure is included

[Nobby_McDonald]

That is the gist I have gotten over the years, but I guess at this point its just guess work whether changes are in. I do think the Italian FA decided about them months ago already.

It's not guesswork if the Italian FA have confirmed the changes. They will be in if that is the case. It's that simple.

SI have a cut off for the development of the game, and everything that is confirmed and can be implemented before that cut off occurs will be in.

[duccio]

I started this thread to raise awareness of the changes, to lament the possibility of decreasing depth of the Italian football pyramid, and to ask SI if they at this point would be willing / able to divulge any information concerning the issue.

I guess the thing that would intrigue me the most would be if Serie D was to be added to the game. There will be 9 less teams in the new Serie C A/B/C than there currently are in Serie C1/2 A/B. This means less teams to choose from, and as the number of relegations from Serie C remains the same, it likely results in more clubs with high(ish) reputations gaining promotion to Serie C than with the current setup (as long as promotion from Serie D is calculated the same way it is now, and with 9 teams presumably with decent reputations necessarily crashing out of the pro leagues along with the reorganization). There are also some new requirements for would be Serie C clubs - they must have at least €600k and a stadium with a capacity of 3000 spectators. If these regulations were to be implemented in the game, it would further limit the variety of teams with a shot to be promoted to a playable division. Unless of course if Serie D was added.

As of yet there is no word, that I know of, from an official source.