Pairs & Combinations Part 2: Central Defenders

[llama3]

This is the second of a 4-part guide into the pairings and combinations that make up your team and tactics. These guides will cover the following:

• Central Midfielders
  
• Central Defence
  
• Wide Men
  
• Strike Partnerships

So, onto the Central Defenders guide...

Introduction

This guide is going to look in your central defensive set-ups, and how to achieve a cohesive backline. I will discuss your common central defensive pairing, and then the less common central trio. Finally I will discuss the Goalkeeper as a little bonus section.

Central Pair

You have 3 central defensive roles and 3 central defensive duties to choose from. The roles are as follows:

• Central Defender
  
• Limited Defender
  
• Ball Playing Defender

and the duties are as follows:

• Defend
  
• Stopper
  
• Cover

The roles are fairly similar in most respects, and defensive distribution is the most significant difference in the roles. The Limited Defender tends to simply clear the ball as far away from goal as he can - ensures you do not get caught in possession at the back, but it does turn over possession to your opponents quicker and can leave you under sustained pressure. A good idea if your team does not possess the skill to keep hold of the ball in the backline. The Central Defender will distribute the ball to nearby teammates, helping you keep possession in the backline, and to calmly distribute the ball to the midfield. There is the risk of getting caught in possession at the backline, however it can alleviate pressure on your backline by keeping the ball, and building attacks and distributing the ball to players in the midfield capable of influencing the game in the middle and final thirds. The Ball Playing Defender will look to influence counter-attacking opportunities by playing through-balls in to players wide of, or in front of himself. He can also help the team maintain possession with his superior passing skills and licence, although he must me fairly creative and a good passer, otherwise you can turn over possession if your player tries overly ambitious passes he is not capable of.

• Central Defender & Central Defender
  
• Central Defender & Limited Defender
  
• Limited Defender & Limited Defender
  
• Ball Playing Defender & Central Defender

You can pair Limited Defenders as they do not affect the balance or overall passing structure as they simply play direct, same with a pair of Central Defenders who simply play a short passing game. The Ball Playing Defender however plays through balls, and due to the increased creativity should generally only be paired with just a simple Central Defender - this is because the Central Defender can help maintain possession at the back, passing to his more creative partner instead of hoofing the ball clear like a Limited Defender and his "safety-first" approach. Having 2 Ball Playing Defenders can see your defenders playing with too much creativity, and attempting too many risky passes.

The duties provide the variation in defensive approach, and these can significantly change the way your defence balances. The Defend duty is the standard approach, aiming to defend merely as guided by team instructions on marking and pressing, holding the defensive line and winning the ball when appropriate. It is a balance of the 2 "extremes" offered by the Stopper and Cover duties. The Stopper duty aims to step up early to engage the opposition and quickly win the ball back. This can expose your team and open up space for your opposition, stepping ahead of your defensive line. The Cover duty will drop off to try and catch any players breaching the defensive line. This can leave your opponents more time and space just in front of your defence unopposed, but it can also prevent your opponents from breaking through without a player to cover and track their runs, reducing their chances of getting a clean shot away in behind.

• Defend & Defend
  
• Stopper & Cover
  
• Stopper & Defend
  
• Defend & Cover

You can play most combinations of duties in the backline, however most importantly you CANNOT play a pair of Stoppers or a pair of Covering Defenders. The Stoppers will expose too much space in behind, and the Covers will gift too much room in front of the defence, and fail to challenge for the ball often enough. Both pairings can badly expose your Offside Trap too, by either allowing room behind the full back's or behind the centre backs, played onside by the full backs. The Defend-Defend pairing tend to stay in line better and are significantly better for shape retention, and playing an Offside Trap. The Stopper-Cover pairing tends to exaggerate the best qualities of each individual, with an aggressive defender to attack the ball early, reducing room for the opposition forwards, and the covering defender can make up for the aggressiveness of the Stopper with his excellent positioning and pace. The Stopper can make up for the Covering Defender's deeper positioning and sometimes lack of aggression by closing down the space in front of the defence. This pairing can cause problems maintaining the Offside Trap with the Defenders in line, allowing gaps for your opponents to exploit.

Central Trio

When playing 3 at the back, you have to consider the implications of the wide players, and their positioning. If your full backs/wing backs are fairly attack-minded then your wide central defenders will have to be able to cover the space left out wide. Having a back 3 can take a player away from the flanks or the central zone in the pitch, and if this back 3 can help with this attacking deficit it is useful. A Ball Playing Defender can help out with the deficit in creativity and Central Defenders can help retain possession. This is worth considering, but the suitability of your players for their roles is important. The real art with 3 at the back comes with the distribution of roles:

• Defend-Defend-Defend
  
• Stopper-Cover-Stopper
  
• Cover-Stopper-Cover

The general theories are that you can either keep your entire defence in line, preserving your offside trap and shape by keeping all on the "Defend" duty. You can have Stoppers out wide, closing down opposition wide players to prevent crosses coming in, leaving 2 defenders in the centre to challenge the opponents, with the Covering defender capable of tracking the runs of players in behind the Stoppers. You can invert this by having a Stopper to close down space in the centre, forcing the ball to be played wide, and Cover the balls into the channels for the opposition wide players to chase in behind.

Goalkeepers

Your Goalkeeper is a simple pair of choices:

• Goalkeeper
  
• Sweeper Keeper

Your Sweeper Keeper can start counter-attacking moves, and is more adventurous with his distribution as a result. He tends to try and collect the ball as it is played in behind the defence. Sweeper Keeper's tend to be more effective behind a high line, covering for through balls in behind. A straightforward Goalkeeper will be more conservative and as such is more suited to playing behind a deeper line instead. If you play a Ball Playing Defender then you may need to consider a normal Goalkeeper, as there is no point bypassing 1 of your more creative players playing it long instead.

Conclusion

Your defensive roles affect your defensive distribution, and duties affect your defensive approach. Defend duties stay in line better, with Stopper and Cover duties useful in tandem closing down and tracking space and runs, but at the expense of your offside trap. Make sure you consider the space you vacate on the flanks if you play 3 at the back, and consider your approach to possession and your player's individual capabilities when assessing your roles and duties selection.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/362894-Pairs-amp-Combinations-Part-1-Central-Midfielders

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/366560-Pairs-amp-Combinations-Part-3-Strike-Partnerships

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/367124-Pairs-amp-Combinations-Part-4-The-Wide-Men

[phnompenhandy]

Damn! Your explanation of the combo of duties is a revelation to me! Thanks!

[llama3]

No worries man.

[youngrookie]

you explained that well dude, very easy to understand.

quick Question mate - i play my 2 cb's set as defend due to me having 2 dmc's - dm s and dlp d and its working well but would you think changing one of the cb's to stopper be beneficial???? my r fbk is set to defend but my left fbk to attack, now no space is left behind him due to my dlp defend being there. i like my def line deepish and i play either standard (till i score) and/or counter so am not considering a dc as cover

again congrats on this thread and your other one, both good reads

[llama3]

To be honest, you have 2 players covering that space well already - so I would stay as you are, you may simply crowd that "DM area" and vacate space for an opposition forward to attack. That box formed from 2 DC's and 2 DM's in a good shape is fairly priceless. You defend deep and shape is ESSENTIAL to that system. You sound (defensively at least) to have a very well thought out system youngrookie.

[youngrookie]

no it is as safe as houses and was just curious really. since using this set up ive conceded only 21 league goals in one and a half seasons. why change if its not broken!!!.

cheers fella

[llama3]

no it is as safe as houses and was just curious really. since using this set up ive conceded only 21 league goals in one and a half seasons. why change if its not broken!!!.

cheers fella

Nothing wrong with wanting to improve it, but thats a very good record. Impressive.

[ShirazS]

Another excellent thread llama3! Cannot wait for the next 2

[TimEdwins7]

Great read, thanks

[phnompenhandy]

I'm a lower league manager; my initial squad had dreadful full backs and seemingly decent centre backs, so I've gone for a formation with 3 DCs and 2 DM/MCd. I've been conceding too many goals due to poor defending - problem is at the is level it's hard to tell if "it's your tactics" or the single-digit levels of concentration, stamina and technical attributes.

I've been putting the 2 poorest DCS on Limited/Stopper and one with better pace/accel on Cover - I can see now that I was thinking wrongly. I'll switch to the left and right DCs on Stopper and central one on Defend. So how best should I set up the 2 guys in front of them? I've been playing one as Anchor/DMd and one as DLPsup.

Nb. ahead I've got AML, AMR, 2 AMCs - 1 or both usually on IF duties, and one striker (usually poacher).

[llama3]

I'm a lower league manager; my initial squad had dreadful full backs and seemingly decent centre backs, so I've gone for a formation with 3 DCs and 2 DM/MCd. I've been conceding too many goals due to poor defending - problem is at the is level it's hard to tell if "it's your tactics" or the single-digit levels of concentration, stamina and technical attributes.

I've been putting the 2 poorest DCS on Limited/Stopper and one with better pace/accel on Cover - I can see now that I was thinking wrongly. I'll switch to the left and right DCs on Stopper and central one on Defend. So how best should I set up the 2 guys in front of them? I've been playing one as Anchor/DMd and one as DLPsup.

Nb. ahead I've got AML, AMR, 2 AMCs - 1 or both usually on IF duties, and one striker (usually poacher).

Regarding your DC set up - i would recommend the "cover" duty, not "defend" for the central of your back 3 - and I am concerned at your wide men being so far up the pitch, there is no cover on your flanks whatsoever. Your DM-DLP set up looks fairly sound, although with 3 centre backs, and a DM(d)&DLP(s) there are very few forward runs, you may do better to swap their duties.

[phnompenhandy]

Actually at this level the flanks aren't a threat since no one can cross! I do tight mark or close down oppo winders/wingbacks if their crossing or dribbling approaches anywhere near 10, but goals are rarely conceded that way. I have a short-passing tiki-taka type style which works surprisingly well at this level - in terms of controlling possession. I make few goal-scoring chances and convert a very small fraction, but that's largely due to the lack of composure of my strikers.

[mojojojo101]

Another great piece llama3, looking forward to the next two .

One thing I would mention though is in your section on back-3's you didn't mention the Defend-Cover-Defend combination. For me at least this has been a very successful set up with the central CB playing as you'd expect from a cover duty but the two outside players playing slightly more conservative than they would on stopper. For me I found them a little less likely to be caught out of position and so more able to deal with wide players when they came into play. This was more pronounced against 1 striker where I found them a little prone to go chasing the striker leaving a big gap down the side of my defence.

[yonko]

I've been thinking of trying a 3-4-3 formation and it's interesting for me to read the various proposed combinations for the 3 CDs. This is what I'm thinking:

Balance Philosophy

Control Strategy

Pass Shorter

Press More

Zonal Marking

Drill Crosses

More Roaming

GK = G-d

DCR = CD-cover

DCC= BPD-stopper

DCL = BPD-cover

WBR = WB-auto

WBL = WB-auto

MCR = DLP-support

MCL = AP-support

STR = IF-attack

STC = Trequartista

STL = IF-attack

Thoughts?

[llama3]

Depends on the personnel you have to fit the appropriate roles and duties. You have 5 specialist roles which is not good though. Also a lack of defensive cover in midfield. That DLP(S) has a lot of work to do, I hope he is up to it.

[alinp]

Excellent post llama3, but I see no mention of a back 3 including a Sweeper or Libero (as so often championed by Cleon) - any thoughts on this?

[llama3]

A Sweeper is something I have barely ever used, not much I can comment on much.

[yonko]

Depends on the personnel you have to fit the appropriate roles and duties. You have 5 specialist roles which is not good though. Also a lack of defensive cover in midfield. That DLP(S) has a lot of work to do, I hope he is up to it.

Why is it not good to use 5 specialist roles? I have had more success using that than the recommended rule for specialists in my 4-3-3. I used to set up as G-defend, 2 WB-auto, 2 CD-defend, DM-defend, DLP-support, AP-attack, 2 IF-attack, Trequartista. But then I decided to experiment and go against the grain (and recommended) by changing the CDs to BPDs and the DM to DLP-defend. It's working out and playing better, and I'm having more success.

Now, as alternative I'm looking to move back my DLP-defend into the backline as BPD-stopper and advance my WBs.

[llama3]

With a fluid philosophy it means you want people generally thinking the same way - 5 specialist roles should be in a rigid philosophy where they have instructions that take them outside of a normal positional role.

[yonko]

With a fluid philosophy it means you want people generally thinking the same way - 5 specialist roles should be in a rigid philosophy where they have instructions that take them outside of a normal positional role.

I'm not using Fluid Philosophy. I'm using Balanced. I've chosen to use more so called specialists roles because it makes my tactic play better and suits my players.

I don't choose players' roles based on the Philosophy I use, but rather based on what I want players to do and based on their attributes.

[llama3]

I'm not using Fluid Philosophy. I'm using Balanced. I've chosen to use more so called specialists roles because it makes my tactic play better and suits my players.

I don't choose players' roles based on the Philosophy I use, but rather based on what I want players to do and based on their attributes.

Not going to disagree with wwfan's advice - it is him that recommends using it this way.

[davehibb]

Really informative threads. Thank you!

Looking forward to Part 3.

[ShirazS]

Hey llama3,

I know you're probably busy but any idea when the next part of this guide will be released?

Regards

Shiraz

[llama3]

Hey llama3,

I know you're probably busy but any idea when the next part of this guide will be released?

Regards

Shiraz

Probably not until midweek. Have night shifts monday & tuesday, so probably do it wednesday

[ShirazS]

Cool, looking forward to it. Hate night shifts. Recently came off working shifts my self

[lim]

llama3 - would just like to thank you for threads and posts to this forum. (which i am sure takes alot of time and effort to do)

Your threads and posts have certainly helped me enjoy the game alot more and will look forward to the next part of this guide.

Thank you again

[Colorado]

I've been putting the 2 poorest DCS on Limited/Stopper and one with better pace/accel on Cover - I can see now that I was thinking wrongly.

What's wrong with the thinking behind that? Having the quicker player on cover seems logical to me, am I missing something?

[AnarchyAnt]

What's wrong with the thinking behind that? Having the quicker player on cover seems logical to me, am I missing something?

I believe general thinking is that pace and acceleration is more important for your stopper as he is rushing out to meet the attack while the cover stays back to pick up scraps.

[Cleon]

What's wrong with the thinking behind that? Having the quicker player on cover seems logical to me, am I missing something?

Remember he was speaking about a back 3. The idea is in a back 3 you'd have the central defender as cover regardless of how fast he is or isn't. The outer 2 should be stoppers as the central defender is better positioned to cover up any mistakes they make due to him being next to both of them.

In a back 2 it would work like you think it would but in a back 3 it's totally different.

[macca72]

Great thread llama3, would be really interested to get your thoughts on the below...

For the first time this year I'm planning on employing wing backs, primarily because I like the idea, and secondly because the team I'll start my career with don't have any wingers. I'm looking to set up 2 formations, which will leave me with either...

3 flat central defenders & 3 flat central midfielders

OR

both an AM diamond and a DM diamond

My 3 flat central defenders I'm happy with CD© BPD(X) CD©, this should allow the stopper to advance from the line, hopefully make a tackle / interception and initiate a counter attack. My 2 "outer" CM's I am planning to have B2B, as they can bomb up and down creating space and making tackles, dictating the game.

So my first question here is, how would you deploy the "middle" CM ?

My second option (both the AM & DM diamond together) is causing me more headaches. I was thinking a solid Anchor at the base, protecting the 2 CD(D) but with the instruction to try the odd through ball here and there (think a semi-Busquets type role who can drop back as a CD if needed).

My plan is still to keep my 2 "outer" CM's as B2B, this leaves the question of what to do with the tip of the Diamond the AM, how would you deploy him ?

That then leaves me with the 2 strikers, but I need to think more about that before I bug you! Thanks...

[llama3]

Your "middle" CM needs to be a defensive role, otherwise there is no cover in midfield. So DLP/BWM/CM(D).

For the other option - probably a playmaker type.

[macca72]

Your "middle" CM needs to be a defensive role, otherwise there is no cover in midfield. So DLP/BWM/CM(D).

For the other option - probably a playmaker type.

Excellent thanks, that fits pretty well, as I'll change my Anchor in the other formation to be a DLP(D) so I can find a player who can play both roles in both CM & DM. In terms of the playmaker, would you go for a supporting role, rather than attack to link the midfield ?

[llama3]

No, you already have 2 support players in midfield. That's not to say it won't work. But 3 support players in midfield is rarely a good idea.

[macca72]

No, you already have 2 support players in midfield. That's not to say it won't work. But 3 support players in midfield is rarely a good idea.

Yep, can see how it's coming together, an attacking player in the AMC area, with a supporting forward. Thanks a lot

[llama3]

Yep, can see how it's coming together, an attacking player in the AMC area, with a supporting forward. Thanks a lot

No worries. I like to stick to a framework of duties and then have the roles built onto them.

[bababooey]

Great thread llama3, thanks for this information and insight!

I've also read that a stopper/cover combo (in a 2 man setup) can really be problematic when you go up against 2 strikers, or 1 striker + an AMC. What do you think about that?

[llama3]

I would be more cautious of it for certain, but it can still work quite well.

[bababooey]

Also, llama3, have you noticed that the defending from fullbacks has been completely awful? I've found that if I don't close down / show to opposite foot wingers on the other team, then I get skinned more often than I should.. That and defending crosses has been ABYSMAL. Center backs aren't doing much to clear out headers / balls to feet. Hopefully that is only a beta-related issue!

[llama3]

Yeah noticed it has not been great, but cannot image it will be anything other than a beta issue. After all, there are a lot of experienced people on the beta who will have raised such issues.

[kotzemazza]

Great thread! I am currently developing a new tactic and was wondering if you could share any thoughts on a sweeper-central defender-central defender trio and the best possible role combination for the pair of defenders in order to best optimize their relationship with the sweeper in my formation. The formation I am currently experimenting with is

GK(D)

SW(D)

CD(D) CD(D)

WBL(S) WBR(S)

CM(D) AP(S)

IF(A) IF(A)

DLF(S)

P.S. Sorry for the bad tactics illustration, I'm new here and I wasn't sure how to do it properly. I hope it's still comprehensive though

[PeeKay]

llama3, great as always.

A rule of thumb I use is for Sweeper Keepers is "when I'm not using a defender with Cover duty then use a SK".

The duty for a Sweeper Keeper is decided by if I want cover then Defend, if I want cover and quick possesion then Support and if I want aggresive counter then Attack

[llama3]

If i play a high line a SK becomes far more important. I don't play a high line as often now though. I tend to try not to push my luck with Szczesny's lack of pace, and Mertesacker's lack of pace too.

[llama3]

Great thread! I am currently developing a new tactic and was wondering if you could share any thoughts on a sweeper-central defender-central defender trio and the best possible role combination for the pair of defenders in order to best optimize their relationship with the sweeper in my formation. The formation I am currently experimenting with is

GK(D)

SW(D)

CD(D) CD(D)

WBL(S) WBR(S)

CM(D) AP(S)

IF(A) IF(A)

DLF(S)

P.S. Sorry for the bad tactics illustration, I'm new here and I wasn't sure how to do it properly. I hope it's still comprehensive though

Yeah it's grand mate. Although I never ever use a Sweeper. Its the 1 position I cannot give any meaningful advice for.

[gipsy]

with Barca,

I play Valdes as a sweeper keeper, Piqué/Bartra in the DCR position (BPD-cover) and Puyol/Mascherano in the DCL position (as a CD-stopper)

how do you gus play them?

[davidmn27]

Just wondering about the types of players used in these systems..when looking for a CD they're nearly all 'stoppers'. (I may be exaggerating!) Whats the danger of putting a stopper in the cover or defend duty?

[llama3]

with Barca,

I play Valdes as a sweeper keeper, Piqué/Bartra in the DCR position (BPD-cover) and Puyol/Mascherano in the DCL position (as a CD-stopper)

how do you gus play them?

Seem sensible as a centre-back pairing, although the offside trap is weaker if you play a stopper-cover pair.

Just wondering about the types of players used in these systems..when looking for a CD they're nearly all 'stoppers'. (I may be exaggerating!) Whats the danger of putting a stopper in the cover or defend duty?

A stopper is quite aggressive, a cover is rather intelligent and reads the game well. A quick covering defender can be very useful, but a mobile or strong stopper can be very useful.

[davidmn27]

What I meant was what would the effects be if you put a CD whose primary role is 'stopper' with a 'cover' duty or vise-versa? i.e can central defenders operate to their maximum ability whilst playing unfamiliar role?

[llama3]

Yes you can - but will the covering defender be too aggressive or will his decision making or PPM's help keep him in position, and vice versa.

[davidmn27]

Thanks llama3

[llama3]

No worries man.