Liamgannon Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Background on tactic I suppose I've always liked to create unconventional tactics in previous iterations of FM, well FM14 is no different. My tactic is a variation of a 4-2-3-1 but you'll notice I do play with an anchor man - but you could also say that I have one defensive midfielder, one normal midfielder and one attacking one. Now this tactic is all about creating space, through unconventional methods I might add - you'll notice some of the positions are slightly off, noticeably, this applies to the anchor, DLP, AP, and DLF. Now that's 4 out of a possible 10 outfield positions that are slightly skewed, should make for interesting attacking play. Average positions You'll notice in the average position image that my attacking 4 (IF, DLF, AP, W) are all fairly close together, this IMO will create great passing interchange between them. The IF is set to cut inside and play fairly narrow, creating space for the WBL to bomb past and get crosses in. The DLF will drop deep to pull defenders out of their positions, effectively helping to create space for the AP and winger to get forward. Whilst I want the AP to be at the centre of everything we do offensively, he is setup in a way that will ensure he also gets goals, i'll explain more about individual player roles further along in this thread. The more defensive minded midfield players (DLP, anchor), you'll notice why I said this tactic is more like a 4-2-3-1 now, are fairly close together, the anchor will just sit in front of the defence, win tackles and then distribute simple balls to either the wing backs or DLP. The DLP's main duty is to support whats happening in front of him. The defence is still a work in progress. The only thing I've really thought about are the wing backs, and how i want them to play in relation to the attacking IF and winger. You'll notice the CB's are both set to CD (D). Having only played one game, a friendly which I won 5-1 against my reserves, I need to play a bit more to see pros and cons of this setup - I will obviously be making tactical tweaks according to what I see, and will explain my reasons for doing so. Ok, that is all for now, I hope it gives you a little taste of what i'm trying to do. In my next post I will explain the individual player roles in more depth and talk about the team settings as a whole, eg passing, tackling, roaming, etc. I'd like to back up my theory with examples from games so I hope you understand that as I've only played one game, i'll need to crack on in order to be able to do it. First proper friendly Some of the attacking movement from my team in this match was a joy to behold. The only downside is we conceded 2 goals, one was from a direct free kick so I won't lose too much sleep over it - I won't make any panic changes and will see how we get on in the next friendly match Next friendly Glad i didn't tweak the tactics after the last game, we absolutely played RJ off the park, only won by one goal but any other day we would have absolutely murdered them. average positions against RJ You'll notice that Ozil plays very close to Walcott. What I love about this is that defenders are drawn to Ozil when he has the ball meaning Walcott can break free, beat his marker and get into great goal scoring opportunities. Some of the attacking play on the either wings is good to watch too. On the right, you have sagna, Ozil, Walcott all crowding that space playing short passes and overpowering the full backs to create chances. On the left, gibbs bombs forward, links up with Cazorla, and because Giroud is slightly left centered in his position, they manage to create as much damage as on the right wing. One of the worries I had with this formation is that it might get outplayed by a team that packed the numbers in midfield, well look at RJ's formation. We had 59% possesion against them with only one true CM, and they only managed one shot against us. I might have a look at making the left CB (Koscienley) play as a stopper, helping to push him further up the field. You'll notice that there is an considerable gap between the left CB and DLP. This is exacerbated by the left WB playing on an attacking mentality. Something to keep in mind for future games. Friendly against Metz I decided to play my back up players and they surprised me by playing a really good game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 A bit more about my tactics So if I am honest, my team is playing how I thought they would, wing backs are bombing forward, the anchor man is protecting the CB's, the DLP is threading some nice balls forward, the AP is dictating play and joining up nicely with the IF, winger and DLF - no nasty surprises so far. So how is my team setup? Well as i mentioned in the top of the thread, I wanted to create an unconventional tactic that plays similar to a 4-2-3-1 but uses a unique way to create space and good attacking movement. I encourage attacking players to roam from their positions, pass into space, and play at a high tempo. In my opinion, this helps to create very good counter attacking football. So far in the few friendlies I've played, having watched the games on extended highlights, when a team has a corner against me, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a scoring chance for them - I've seen on a few occasions now that my team have the potential to break away (from a good headed clearance) and cut through my opponent with rapier speed. Even though I like to play on the counter, this shouldn't be at the expense of losing the ball cheaply, that's why I also have the play out of defence option ticked. It also helps to draw the opposition on to me and create space for my attackers at the other end. Lastly, I like to hassle my opponents. I see my team as favorites for most matches so why sit back and let them play, lets get at the opposition and force them to make mistakes. This also works nicely with my counter attacking game, helping me to win the ball high up the field to set up a goal scoring chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Individual team instructions GK - distribute to defenders WBL - none WBR - none CB - none CB - none Anchor - none DLP -none IF - shoot less AP - run wide with ball Winger -fewer risky passes, shoot less DLF - dribble less, pass short I'll explain my thought process with the above tweaks. DLF, I don't want him to dribble, I've got Cazorla, Ozil and Walcott to do that. I want Giroud to stay close to the 3 supporting attacking players and interlink with them, that also explains why I want him to have a short passing game. Even though the winger is on an attacking mentality, i still see him as a support function, so I don't want him shooting all the time, same goes with Cazorla in the IF position. I like Ozil (AP) to run wide with the ball, this helps to create space for the IF and winger positions, sometimes they swap positions even though I have not directly asked them to do this, but the roaming settings in the team instructions ensure this happens enough to keep the opposition defence on their toes. You'll notice the other more defensive positions don't have any individual settings. These guys are there to KISS, well not in that way - it simply stands for, keep it simple stupid, not you, i'm not calling you stupid...that's just how the saying goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Team stats after 4 friendly games Giroud banging 7 goals in 4 games. Ozil getting on the score sheet 4 times but also assisting a whopping 6 goals. I think it's fair to say that these 2 players are setup properly. Walcott could be doing more, although 1 goal and 2 assists in 4 games isn't a bad return. And then we come to Cazorla, the IF of the team. One assist and zero goals in 4 games isn't great - i'll have to monitor his performances and make tweaks if necessary. Fixtures so far I'm not entirely happy with my defence, might be worth trying koscienley as a stopper to close the gap between the left CB and DLP. It's worth a shot now as I have only kept one clean sheet. Conceding 5 goals in 5 games isn't the end of the world, but considering my level of opponent I should be doing better, saying that, this is a new tactic so you would expect to have some teething problems. Last friendly game - surprising result! I changed Koscienley to play as a stopper, now I am not saying that this led to us conceding 3 goals, but it does seem strange that it happened straight after making that tactical change. In my first league game against Norwich (at home) I decided to revert back to two normal CBs. This was the result... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Another nicely presented and well described FM14 tactical thread. Good work! Keep it coming, I'm using Arsenal at the moment and it's interesting to compare different approaches. Looks like you haven't signed anyone yet - have you any plans to do so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justdoit94 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 looks like u are getting the best out of ozil - something am struggling with using the conventional 4-2-3-1 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Another nicely presented and well described FM14 tactical thread.Good work! Keep it coming, I'm using Arsenal at the moment and it's interesting to compare different approaches. Looks like you haven't signed anyone yet - have you any plans to do so? Thanks very much, I have only signed 2 players. I needed a new CB and DMC to tighten it up at the back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I have only signed 2 players. I needed a new CB and DMC. I went for Bender too - at that price it's insane not to. Although I paid £500k more than you Also went to Dortmund for Subotic, who has his flaws but is a no-nonsense defender. Other signing was Hector Moreno, as a bit of a classier ball playing defender with a bit of anger in him too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 looks like u are getting the best out of ozil - something am struggling with using the conventional 4-2-3-1 . The whole team is built around Ozil, the DLP is there to support him. He's the main provider and I also expect him to get the 2nd most amount of goals behind Giroud. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 I went for Bender too - at that price it's insane not to. Although I paid £500k more than you Also went to Dortmund for Subotic, who has his flaws but is a no-nonsense defender. Other signing was Hector Moreno, as a bit of a classier ball playing defender with a bit of anger in him too. So you signed 2 CBs. I'll check Moreno out, i've heard of him but it would be good to see his stats. I'm going to try and make it to January with 4 CBs, should be ok. I am worried about Giroud getting injured though, i'm looking for another big man to play up top, although Podolski has done well when played (although only in pre-season games). I've read that people have struggled to get Podolski to play as an IF but I can't justify splashing out on another IF considering I want to develop miyaichi. League table after 3 games Played Norwich (H 5-0 win), Everton (A 2-2 draw), Man City (H 2-1 win) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim-Beam Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Liam, would you consider Coutinho able to fulfil Ozil's AP role and Suarez up top? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 passing strategy GK - distribute to defenders DC - play out of defence DC - play out of defence WBL - play out of defence WBR - play out of defence Anchor - short DLP - short IF - short AP - direct Winger - direct DLF - short Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Liam, would you consider Coutinho able to fulfil Ozil's AP role and Suarez up top? If Coutinho has good passing, creativity, dribbling, movement, and pace then yes. I imagine you could get suarez to play well up top on his own but in my opinion he would be better paired with someone, he's the sort of player you want running off a target man, with the TM creating space for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 My star performer so far has been ozil. He really is the diamond in my team - I'm going to be posting some of his goals later on today. I want to show you how he works in tandem with giroud. I've got examples of giroud vacating the attacking space, laying a little balls to the on coming ozil who then darts through and bags himself a goal. Exciting stuff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEERHAUNTER Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I've noticed that with changing the CB's from default to Stopper/Cover, I've conceded a lot more, must be a bug with the system. What I've done but not tested so far, is tweak Koscielny to act as a Stopper without actually being labelled as a Stopper in the tactics screen, hopefully I'll find enough time to test that out, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed changing the CD's roles has brought a lot less clean sheets. Perhaps a small increase yes but not the amount I've seen conceded! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I've noticed that with changing the CB's from default to Stopper/Cover, I've conceded a lot more, must be a bug with the system.What I've done but not tested so far, is tweak Koscielny to act as a Stopper without actually being labelled as a Stopper in the tactics screen, hopefully I'll find enough time to test that out, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed changing the CD's roles has brought a lot less clean sheets. Perhaps a small increase yes but not the amount I've seen conceded! It's not a bug and was the same in FM13. A stopper and cover is a great combo but only against a lone striker. Against a 2 man strike force they tend to get split especially if one of the strikers drops deep or you face an attacking AMC. What happens is you see a gap appear between the 2 DC's when one of them goes forward to deal with the attack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 really happy with how Ozil is performing, what a beast of a player - reckon i can get him 30 goals and as many assists... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 team has really gelled now, apart from losing to sunderland away where i played a reserve side, we're doing pretty well in the league. Attack is great, defence still needs some work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipswichjon2 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Really interesting set up with the assymetric formation, I've really been struggling to get a tactic with any cohesion working, but this has worked well with my limited ipswich team. My own tactics have been okay possession wise but they've not scored enough or controlled games. Only issue I've had so far is my centre backs getting caught for pace and my WBL squandering possession with aimless crosses, however this could be more due to the lack of quality in my team. Considering these issues I'm thinking of tweaking the CB to play offside as their positioning is pretty good, and swapping the WB roles and winger/inside forward. Thanks for a well written tactic post! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Lovely mix of goals and assists from all players Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo98 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Ah anything asymmetric gets me me hooked. I literally hate building symmetrical now lol. I like this shape, and I have just started off a save as Fiorentina, interested in implementing a few of the things you've created there. Somewhat similar squad, with Gomez being Giroud, Rossi being Ozil (albeit not quite as good) and Joaquin as Walcott. Also Borja Valero does a pretty good Wilshire impression, and have attacking fullbacks as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 ok, I've started a new save, the tactics were working but because I have now tweaked my strategy to perfection and I now want to play those tactics from the start. I also didn't realise that you could continue the beta save into the new full version game so I've loaded up more leagues and also got rid of the fake files etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilu Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 passing strategyGK - distribute to defenders DC - play out of defence DC - play out of defence WBL - play out of defence WBR - play out of defence Anchor - short DLP - short IF - short AP - direct Winger - direct DLF - short Above you said that the winger has Fewer Risky Passes. Now that is a conflict with direct passing. Am I missing something? PS: First tactic that really works in almost all situations. Must be something related to the players I have. I am a small team in a small league. I am sure you don't mind I am using it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Above you said that the winger has Fewer Risky Passes. Now that is a conflict with direct passing. Am I missing something? I might be wrong, but you can still play direct with less risky passes. I've never thought of direct passing equaling long balls, it just means they pass forward and try and find the nearest man to them, so while walcott plays direct football, I'm asking him not to play long balls so he can retain possession at the expense of losing it. Hope that makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilu Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Yup. Working like a charm, with a few tweaks by myself, small ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastwood Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 How did it perform against big teams? Be interested to see average position in more games.. can see just against Roda the space their wide players had, would worry about top players finding it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Results against big teams. Won't post individual screen shots, but i remember the score in these games. Home Arsenal 2 Man city 1 Arsenal 2 Chelsea 0 Arsenal 5 spurs 1 arsenal 3 - Dortmund 2 Arsenal 4 - Napoli 1 Away Dortmund 1 Arsenal 0 - played well here, deserved a draw Man u 1 Arsenal 2 - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandersson Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 looks very good and shares a lot of my tactical preferences the midfield setup (from DM to AM's) is exactly like the one I have in my mind! It's impressive the defensive stability you have achieved with this formation, esp consdering you have WB's instead of FB's, they might get defensive line a little too high for my taste but it's working well for you! great thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilu Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Mate, do something good for the other people, and upload it in the sharing center. It is just awesome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yup. Working like a charm, with a few tweaks by myself, small ones. i'm interested to know what you tweaked? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 I've made a slight tweak to the defensive settings, gibbs has been changed to play support in the LWB role. I absolutely love seeing gibbs bombing down the left like a man possessed but not at the detriment to defensive stability so I reckon it's better if I favor clean sheets over the odd assist and goal, pragmatism wins in this instance. I've also adjusted the RWB position, changing it to a FB role, he stays on support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Now there is another slight tweak I could make, bringing the winger down to the half way line. I don't really want to sacrifice the attacking potency so will probably leave it for now. It might be an option to think about against tough away opposition or to defend a lead late in the game, but for the moment i'l leave it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Update: Just started my first game since changing the left back to support and he has scored and already made an assist. Only 5 mins played so far! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Mate, do something good for the other people, and upload it in the sharing center. It is just awesome. thanks man, might play with it a bit longer before doing that, the make-up of the tactic is described in the thread so people could easily set it up themselves, after all - this is a tactical discussion that's supposed to help myself and others how to understand the game engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Changed all the defenders to press more, the defence looks like it has pushed up which has had the effect of making us more compact, i'm noticing now that when our attacking moves break down, we're recycling the ball a lot better instead of being hit on the counter. This could well help to improve my defence, i'll have to give it 10 games to be sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 example of how the defenders have changed - they no longer back off anymore! Ball played through by Milan, Mertesacker leaves his position to close down. He was originally in line with Koscienly Mertesacker winning the ball, look how far ahead of the other defenders he is. He lays off a simple ball and we get a scoring chance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Now kept seven clean sheets in a row. Amazing transformation form the defence. I'm starting to see my defenders tackle to setup chances when viewing my attacking play from the extended highlights. This is obviously a good sign that things are tidy at the back. we played Milan, they had Balotelli up front with other good attacking threats, the kind of players that would have scored in our old defensive setup. Team is really tightly knit together now. The widest gap in the team is now between the winger and the RB, although this isn't so much of a problem, if walcott gets skinned, undoubtedly this is a common occurrence with such an attacking player, the right back is now closing down that space in between my two right sided players, effectively getting to the danger a lot quicker which leads to inceptions and good tackles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilu Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 i'm interested to know what you tweaked? Well I have created two more tactics, tweaking yours, for when I have to play more normal, or to defend. I can upload some screens, but I am no pro. I just like to rotate tactics when I win or when the game goes very wrong, usually when I play somebody way bigger then me in the euro cups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edccc Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 love the tactic mate! possible to get a download link? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
godzilu Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 By the way, making the defenders closing in the attackers makes the tactic fragile against stronger teams that could drible and pass better then the average teams. As I said, I am not a big top ten team of Europe. So I reverted to the first styles, with the left wing back on attack, and the right full back a right wing back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edccc Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 re-created the tactic from the posts and trying it out with liverpool atm, the offensive is rock solid and creating chances every game. but some games my defense fails and i concede 3-4 goals. Newcastle home: 1-4 Chelsea home: 2-0 wolves home: 0-3 Swansea home: 4-1. do you guys got any tips for get the defensive going ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 I've also changed the right fb to rwb - the gap between Walcott and Sagna was too big and I wasn't prepared to bring Walcott down to MR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobBRFC Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Looks a superb tactic, like others I love a good asymetric tactic. Do you not find yourself getting caught short at the back sometimes with the 2DC's and a DMCR? Can imagine that any opposition Right Wingers find quite a bit of space in behind the WBL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well the IF is on support so he tracks back. I also changed the LWB to support. It's much more solid now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
penza Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 good work - really nice thread you have going on here which tactic did you find to play 'best' against -as you mentioned you were worried by a team that packed the numbers in midfield but vs Roja you outplayed them..is it because it was 'Roja' or that formation? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford&Son Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I have done something similar with Preston (your formation) and I am doing pretty well with it. Depending on the options I have for certain matches I change the DLP-S to a Box to Box and I have also changed the AP-A to an AM-S at time to drag out a DM if he is taking him out of the game. All in all I am really enjoying the tactical overhaul here in this version. (FYI great tip on setting the CB's to close down ...makes a difference in the way they play and they do indeed step up into the ball now) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 good work - really nice thread you have going on herewhich tactic did you find to play 'best' against -as you mentioned you were worried by a team that packed the numbers in midfield but vs Roja you outplayed them..is it because it was 'Roja' or that formation? Thanks! it plays well against all opposition really. Can struggle sometime against 4231 with wingers, but then i just get offensive positions to track back and its ok I just thought that a team that packs the midfield could be tricky. Played Milan who played a narrow 4321 and won home and away so i think its not as difficult as i would otherwise have presumed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 update, i've gone back to the attacking LWB setting, then also made my anchor close down more, trying to pressure teams a lot more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 New strategy GK - distribute to defenders DC (d) - press more DC (d) - press more WBL (a) - more direct WBR (s) - short pass Anchor (d) - short passes, press more DLP (s) - more direct IF (s) - short pass, shoot less, roam AP (a) - more direct, dribble wide with ball, roam Winger (a) - more direct, shoot less, roam DLF (s) - short pass still using roam more hassle opponents high tempo play out of defence pass into space For some reason the more attacking I go the better the defence is, playing well away now too. Just smashed Man City 5-0 away before beating chelsea 5-1 at home. I will go into those results in more depth when i get time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamgannon Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Tactical observation: When playing away against a big team, if your GK is choosing to kick long from goal kicks because the opposition is pushing up, and inevitably you lose possession to the opposition as the ball falls to your opponents in the middle of the park, i'd suggest lowering the mentality from control to standard. I was getting battered by Man city - they dominate the first 30 mins but couldn't score. I made this small tweak and BAMM - we score 2 great goals before half time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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