Anyone else conceding/scoring stupid amounts of goals from corners?

[Jimbokav1971]

I have been speaking to a statto who speaks regularly to analysts at football clubs and he has told me that there is no single definition as to what is a goal scored from a corner.

What they do is that rank them in multiple tiers.

Tier 1 might be a goal that goes in directly from the delivery.

Tier 2 might be a goal that goes in after the ball has not left the penalty area.

Tier 3 might be a goal that goes in after the ball is returned to the penalty area.

Whether a not a goal is scored from a corner is "generally" perceived to be along the lines of

if the players involved were still in "set-piece positions" and hadn't yet dispersed.

Just food for thought.

[De Santa]

I'm conceding a stupid amount of corners, especially when you are winning and the opposition scores a corner in the second half. Not only corners, but goals that result from corners, maybe a deflected shot. I'd say just about every goal I concede is from a set piece at the moment, and I train set pieces

[Lawlore]

Since I'm towards the end of the season, stats for my last 50 games:

Corners Scored: 5 (out of 92 goals scored) = 5.43%

Corners Conceded: 12 (out of 87 goals conceded) = 13.79%

Total Corner Goals: 17 (out of 179) = 9.49%

So for me, the conversion rate seems reasonably in line with that quoted 10-11% figure from the real world- if anything, it's a little low.

Is there an easy way to see how many corners I've had/given away, or am I going to need to go through each game individually and add them up?

[Things Could Get Messi]

Finally I seem to have sorted my corner problem out a little bit. I am managing Arsenal in the 2019/20 season and excluding Koscielney, the squad is totally different (I took over half way through last season).

The 1st 12 games this season in all competitions we conceded 9 goals. 8 were conceded either from direct headers or a game of ping pong in my box, all from corners. The other goal was a penalty which my CB gave away fouling a player trying to deal with.... yes you guessed it... a corner! So, just for those who struggle a little bit with maths, we conceded a total of ZERO goals from general open play in 12 games. I have seen the opposition miss a number of one on ones and even an open net from 6 yards!

So having took time to study each goal conceded and other close efforts from corners, I drew the conclusion that my 2 men on the posts were actually doing nothing. They were getting no where near anything thus they were pretty much redundant. I took it upon myself to move these 2 players (my 2 FB's) to man marking instead and left my posts completely exposed which has upset my ass man and probably some of you on here. The result so far though has been 6 matches played, 1 goal conceded from a corner. I have also kept 3 men outside the box and nearly scored on the counter a few times.

Obviously, I need to give it more time to see if this is a freak result or a better way to play on the ME and I will give another update once I have played another 20 or so matches.

[Miravlix]

Training Def Set pieces is utterly pointless if you team sucks.

You need several good players succeeding in several key checks to clear a ball on corners.

I'm not sure of the full list of requirements, but winning headers is the #1 factor and it's not enough with just one header, because the first guy will many times send the header to another of yours guys that also need to be good at heading. The other requirement has to be making the right choice in where to send the ball after the guy wins the header, decision, anticipation maybe some situational awareness factor?

[Dagenham_Dave]

I can't find the other thread where I posted the other videos, but this goal has also been counted as a 'corner' goal.

[video=youtube;F1PmOLxZZe4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1PmOLxZZe4

It now means that corner goals in your stat tables include..

• Straightforward corner goals
  
• Goals where a team mate has headed back across goal for another player to score
  
• Goals where an opposition player has defended poorly and your player scores
  
• Short corners
  
• Scrambled efforts like the one posted. That example also shows that OGs are counted in the corner count too.
  

So basically, if your goal is the result of a corner, it WILL show in your corner count stat. Therefore when people are asked to post the stats, then realise it's not as high as they are ranting about, the line of defence 'ah, but it doesn't count this goal or that goal' is now null and void.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Also, the fact it's taken me until game 30 of a 34 week season to even SEE a scrambled corner goal is also quite telling.

[tieio]

Also, the fact it's taken me until game 30 of a 34 week season to even SEE a scrambled corner goal is also quite telling.

So this to you means it is not happening in abundance to anyone else?

[Dagenham_Dave]

So this to you means it is not happening in abundance to anyone else?

I'd be genuinely surprised if it's happening with the extreme regularity that gets posted on here. Of course now we know that type of goal is added to the corner stat total, it should be simple for people to prove it's happening time after time.

Not that it matters of course, soon you won't see any goals from corners once SI release the next update

[Jimbokav1971]

I have just played my 8th game of the season.

Corners faced. 12 + 11 + 19 + 9 + 4 + 8 + 12 + 6 = 81.

Goals conceded from corners. 0

Just so you don't think it's because we are brilliant and beating everyone, we have W3 D1 L3. The draw could have been a win but we had 9 yellow cards and a red card so that's a lot to cope with. I suppose I have to take the blame for keeping them going like that and not telling them to take it easy despite advice from my Ass Man. (I will be keeping an eye out for Mr P Tagliavento).

ps. There is another team in the league who also haven't conceded from a corner yet, (Atalanta).

[Edit]

Next up is Latina who are my bogey team. What's the betting they score 2 or 3?

[kingdalglish]

I'd be genuinely surprised if it's happening with the extreme regularity that gets posted on here. Of course now we know that type of goal is added to the corner stat total, it should be simple for people to prove it's happening time after time.

Not that it matters of course, soon you won't see any goals from corners once SI release the next update

It's the fact that we can do nothing about the corners which is the frustrating part...

Here's how I believe the game should work...

Training...Defend Set Pieces...there should be a bar from 0-100% ( bit like tactical familiarity)

The idea being to reach a good level of training in this area...

The more work done on defending set pieces the less chance there is of conceding from one...

At the moment we have the option of def set pieces in training before a match but given no visual or even textual information on whether or not this been successful or worthwhile...

Same should go for Defensive Positioning, Attack Set Pieces, Attack Movemnent...

We should have bars that over time and with better coaches etc should fill up...the idea being that you only have certain amount of training during a week before a match and it's up to you how best to fill these...

I would love to spend more of the game on training to help get better match results and performances...

As it is now its just pressing a few buttons and hoping it'll have an effect on tactics when clearly it doesn't..

[Jimbokav1971]

It's the fact that we can do nothing about the corners which is the frustrating part...

If I can do something about it, why can't you or anyone else?

(That's 9 games at the start of the season without conceding a goal from.... 90 corners it is now.) (12 + 11 + 19 + 9 + 4 + 8 + 12 + 6 + 9 = 90.)

[Edit]

Actually I wonder if I conceded any at the end of last season?

[Edit2]

Lost 1-0 to Leverkusen. Goal was a hoof and chase from GK on the counter. (5 corners)

Drew 0-0 with Genoa. (7 corners).

Won 3-1 against Catainia. (Bloomin free-kick). (2 corners).

Won 1-0 against Lanciano. (2 corners).

Won 5-3 against AC Bilbao, (but their 1st was from a corner).

So that's...... 13 games now and 106 corners since I last conceded from a corner.

By the way, I don't mean directly from a corner or 1 pass and then in. I mean any highlight at all where the ball starts with a corner or has a corner in it.

[Edit3]

Just beat Bologna 1-0 so that's 14 games and they had 4 corners so that's 110 corners.

[Erith22]

It's totally possible to reduce corner goals against you by just tweaking the basic marking setup and having big center backs.

I strongly believe the issue isn't that human players are victimized by this. I believe the issue is that there are too many corner goals in general. Even if you can manage to reduce or eliminate corners, if the AI can't do the same, then it gives human players a big advantage.

In my current season, 20 matches into La Liga, %20.6 of all goals have been scored via corner (this is more than double the current La Liga rate)! I've personally scored %25 (9 of 36) via corner, while only giving up 2 of my 18 goals against that way. Real Madrid has an even higher percentage of corner goals.

Note this is using FM2014's way of counting corners. I've actually scored a couple more if I broaden the definition a little bit, and 2 more again if I include free kicks from corner positions.

Even though corner goals are significantly helping me in FM 2014, I want them fixed while opening up other kinds of goal scoring so we get a smoother and more interesting game.

[Jimbokav1971]

There have been 103 games in my 2023 Serie A.

According to the in-game stats there have been 54 goals scored from corners, (so about a goal every 2nd game).

Is that completely unrealistic?

Juve have scored the most goals from corners, (7 goals in 11 games).

Bologna and Latina are yet to score from a corner.

Torino have conceded 6 goals from corners in 10 games.

Only we, (San Marino), are yet to concede from a corner.

[Edit]

15 games and 116 corners now.

[Erith22]

There have been 103 games in my 2023 Serie A.

According to the in-game stats there have been 54 goals scored from corners, (so about a goal every 2nd game).

Is that completely unrealistic?

Juve have scored the most goals from corners, (7 goals in 11 games).

Bologna and Latina are yet to score from a corner.

Torino have conceded 6 goals from corners in 10 games.

Only we, (San Marino), are yet to concede from a corner.

[Edit]

15 games and 116 corners now.

It's corner goals as a percentage of ALL goals scored that matters. Figure out what that is.

[Jimbokav1971]

16 games and 119 corners without conceding.

Ok. As of this round of fixtures there have been 62 goals scored from corners in 120 matches, (so a goal from a corner approx every 2nd game).

There have been a total of 361 goals scored.

So goals from corners amount to 17%.

[Edit]

17 games now and 131 corners without conceding.

[scott MUFC]

i get a lot of corners a game 20-25, last match I had 24, they had 1

only thing that happened was me hitting the post twice from them. sometimes score 2 a game, but that is rare, usualy 1 or 0.

[tieio]

Just finished a season as Whitehawk in Skrill South, 42 games and 21 goals against, not bad at all! 19 of said goals were from corners or scrambles directly after, 1 from a penalty and one from my keeper passing directly to an opposing forward for an open net goal. Same as my previous saves. It is the usual, if it weren't for corner goals we'd almost never get scored on

[Erith22]

16 games and 119 corners without conceding.

Ok. As of this round of fixtures there have been 62 goals scored from corners in 120 matches, (so a goal from a corner approx every 2nd game).

There have been a total of 361 goals scored.

So goals from corners amount to 17%.

[Edit]

17 games now and 131 corners without conceding.

Real life numbers are more around %10-13 for Premier League, lower for other leagues.

[brawla123]

My centre back just scored a hat-trick. All goals came from corners.

http://imgur.com/Fz8Icqn

EDIT: He scored again in the second half.

http://imgur.com/uLUiZXn

[nonleague]

Finally finished season 1 with Bristol City in League 1. Here are my stats:

Total goals scored: 99

Total goals conceded: 49

Goals scored from corners: 25

Goals conceded from corners: 4

Wolves and Stevenage scored 23 and 19 goals from corners respectively. There were a few teams of which had conceded around 17 goals from corners.

[Blaupunkt]

im not find it to bad.

League stats

15 games played

28 goals scored

7 conceded

2 scored from corners

1 conceded from corners

most common goal scored from a pass - 18 in total.

[tieio]

Looks like it happens a lot to some and not as much to others, I wonder if this comes down to tactics. That might be my guess.

[YOUNGSTEVE]

From looking at these posts I can just see the moans when the new patch comes and SI does tighten goals from corners up. It must be tactics as some are having very few goals from corners either for or against, whilst others loads, normally them scoring them. It is funny that the ones scoring loads from corners don't see it as a problem, though no doubt would be jumping up and down with rage if the AI did it against them.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Looks like it happens a lot to some and not as much to others, I wonder if this comes down to tactics. That might be my guess.

Bada-bing!!

[Svenc]

Naturally. A side that gets pinned back will concede more corners (and thus increase the likelyhood of conceding from them) than one that doesn't. It is no coincidence that if you sort this table by corners against and turn it upside down, you'll get roughly a mirror of the current PL standings, for instance: http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=Leagues (Currently, safe for a few exceptions, there is an even closer correlation between average shots per game and the league standings). Doesn't mean that those who have the most corners against them concede the most, and vice versa for scoring from them.

But what this means is that tactics will only get you so far too. Cardiff can do all they like, they'll get pushed for the rest of the season, whereas a side of better quality may have the tactical choice if they dropped deep and soaked up pressure or not. Either way, you'd have to take a look at the actual number of corners and conversion ratios. That FM 2014 pretty readily can have a side take 30 or more shots a match is known. Does this rub of on corners too?

As for the other end of the pitch, there appears to be something that comes close to a corner exploit. I've seen somebody turning both of his CBs into two of the highest scoring players of the squad, with both scoring ten goals each. Hard to imagine that this wasn't related to set piece routines either way.

[TalkSport]

I've noticed I've scored quite a lot of goals from corners during my 1st season on a new save. The three CBs between them have 14 goals from corners which seems a tad excessive. Not really complaining though as it's one of my main source of goals due to the strikers being terrible

[Äktsjon Männ]

Bada-bing!!

So user tactics affect overall goals from corners in full seasons?

What's the point of your personal crusade here?

[Jimbokav1971]

Yep. I think my early seasons showed a pretty good return form corners, but as I have progressed to Serie A it's harder because I am generally losing control of the game so I'm on the recieving end of set-pieces more often than not. I give away a lot of free-kicks and seem to also concede lots of corners, (although the corners have improved recently).

My skipper and centre-half usually averages about 5-6 goals a season, (from set-pieces or their aftermath).

His partner pretty similar, (but 4-5).

There was a 3rd guy that used to play, (in the Reserves now), and he used to score about 5 a season but from a far fewer number of games. He wasn't as good a player but he was pretty prolific for a centre-half.

I also have a big DM who contributes, a big striker and the hottest prospect in my team is currently a utility defender who is 6'8" (ITA/MAR)

I really need to look at how I can improve my scoring from corners actually.

[Jimbokav1971]

So user tactics affect overall goals from corners in full seasons?

What's the point of your personal crusade here?

#

I think his "personal crusade" is that a great many people have been saying that it's not related at all to "user tactics".

[Äktsjon Männ]

#

I think his "personal crusade" is that a great many people have been saying that it's not related at all to "user tactics".

Who is saying that? Why does it matter? Is the amount of overall goals from corners too high or not? Why even bring in user tactics, they're completely irrelevant in the bigger picture.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Who is saying that? Why does it matter? Is the amount of overall goals from corners too high or not? Why even bring in user tactics, they're completely irrelevant in the bigger picture.

If they are irrelevant, how do you therefore explain the vast differences in goals conceded from corners between users then? Is it just random?

There are too many corners in the game right now, this is being toned down. However, the corner conversion rate is pretty close to spot on. If you do nothing to combat conceding corners, chances are you'll concede a higher number than those who take the time to sort it out. Is that a tactical choice? Yes, it is.

Therefore tactics are not irrelevant. No crusade here, just the bare facts. Use them how you wish.

[Jimbokav1971]

Who is saying that? Why does it matter? Is the amount of overall goals from corners too high or not? Why even bring in user tactics, they're completely irrelevant in the bigger picture.

It's pretty simple really. People are complaining that they are conceding too many goals from corners and there is nothing that they can to tactically to stop this. From the meagre stats we have available it would seem that there is a slight increase in goals scored from corners within the game, (from approx 13% to approx 17%, based on 2 experiments of only 1.5 seasons in total and following just 1 single league), but of course these goals are spread throughout the league.

The claim made again and again is that they can't stop it and it's fixed or impossible, (actually what is the title of this thread?) oh yeah "Anyone else conceding scoring stupid amounts of goals from corners". A Stupid amount? Considering that there was a blatant corner exploit within the game for coming up to a decade, I would suggest that these stats are actually more realistic than in any issue of FM ever before.

[Äktsjon Männ]

If they are irrelevant, how do you therefore explain the vast differences in goals conceded from corners between users then? Is it just random?

There are too many corners in the game right now, this is being toned down. However, the corner conversion rate is pretty close to spot on. If you do nothing to combat conceding corners, chances are you'll concede a higher number than those who take the time to sort it out. Is that a tactical choice? Yes, it is.

Therefore tactics are not irrelevant. No crusade here, just the bare facts. Use them how you wish.

Again, irrelevant. If there are too many goals scored from corners overall then the average user will concede and score too many goals from corners. Tactics can only skew matters which distorts the bigger picture.

Of course, the people who concede too many from corners are more likely to complain than those who score too many. It's natural. But the argument is pointless.

[Äktsjon Männ]

It's pretty simple really. People are complaining that they are conceding too many goals from corners and there is nothing that they can to tactically to stop this. From the meagre stats we have available it would seem that there is a slight increase in goals scored from corners within the game, (from approx 13% to approx 17%, based on 2 experiments of only 1.5 seasons in total and following just 1 single league), but of course these goals are spread throughout the league.

The claim made again and again is that they can't stop it and it's fixed or impossible, (actually what is the title of this thread?) oh yeah "Anyone else conceding scoring stupid amounts of goals from corners". A Stupid amount? Considering that there was a blatant corner exploit within the game for coming up to a decade, I would suggest that these stats are actually more realistic than in any issue of FM ever before.

Based on any actual statistics provided here and everywhere else there are too many goals scored from corners overall. In my game and in my currently active league the amount is 17% from overall goals. This is at least 5%-6% too high compared to even the most corner goal heavy league in reality. It is not a minor difference. It is over 80 goals in a season which should have been scored in another way.

You can of course skew your own numbers with tactics. But it is, once again, irrelevant to the bigger picture.

[Tuddur]

Number of goals from corners are a bit too high and total number of corners are also a bit too high.

In itself a minor issue IMO.

The problem is the extremely poor defending that seem to cause half-chances on just about every decent delievery. You get too many goals directly from poor clearances, probably too little from direct connects.

This also leads to highlights being clogged up with set-piece after set-piece making watching the matches tedious at best.

[Jimbokav1971]

Based on any actual statistics provided here and everywhere else there are too many goals scored from corners overall. In my game and in my currently active league the amount is 17% from overall goals. This is at least 5%-6% too high compared to even the most corner goal heavy league in reality. It is not a minor difference. It is over 80 goals in a season which should have been scored in another way.

You can of course skew your own numbers with tactics. But it is, once again, irrelevant to the bigger picture.

The problem isn't that there seem to be approx a 4% increase, (compared to real life of corners scored). The reason that it's not the problem being discussed, (although it is an issue), is that in the main people are not complaining that there are too many goals scored from corners in their league.They are not even complaining that there are too many corners scored in their own games. No. they are specifically claiming that they are CONCEDING too many corners. Further to that, they are then claiming that there is absolutely nothing that they can do to stop this from happening and that the AI and ME is basically cheating them.

What is the title of this thread?

Is it..... There are too many goals from corners being scored in the game, (both for and against). Please discuss...

No. Of course it isn't. That would be... reasonable, balanced, (possibly correct is my personal opinion), but certainly a decent topic for debate and investigation.

No. The title of this thread is...... "Anyone else conceding/scoring stupid amounts of goals from corners?"

[Äktsjon Männ]

The problem isn't that there seem to be approx a 4% increase, (compared to real life of corners scored). The reason that it's not the problem being discussed, (although it is an issue), is that in the main people are not complaining that there are too many goals scored from corners in their league.They are not even complaining that there are too many corners scored in their own games. No. they are specifically claiming that they are CONCEDING too many corners. Further to that, they are then claiming that there is absolutely nothing that they can do to stop this from happening and that the AI and ME is basically cheating them.

What is the title of this thread?

Is it..... There are too many goals from corners being scored in the game, (both for and against). Please discuss...

No. Of course it isn't. That would be... reasonable, balanced, (possibly correct is my personal opinion), but certainly a decent topic for debate and investigation.

No. The title of this thread is...... "Anyone else conceding/scoring stupid amounts of goals from corners?"

Conceding/scoring. You focus on the conceding part of course, but again it's irrelevant. If your own team doesn't score or concede too many goals from corners, some AI team most certainly will. Suggestions about the ME cheating are of course ludicrous. As is the suggestion that the problem is minor just because you can find tactical tricks to skew your own numbers. The issue I have with the latter is that it only winds up people and drags these threads out into arguments about things that are irrelevant. The correct answer to the OP is that there are too many corner goals in general which means you'll likely score/concede too many yourself unless you figure out tricks to reduce this tactically (or take advantage of it because every imbalance can of course be exploited.) No further arguments required unless it's providing stats to challenge/confirm the numbers.

[Jimbokav1971]

Here is an example of what I mean.

This is Set-Piece Manager 2014

Easily 75% of my goals are from corners or the desperate scrambles directly following corners

This bloke is honestly suggesting that more than 75% of the goals his team are conceding come from corners. Do something about it then!

It's the fact that we can do nothing about the corners which is the frustrating part...

This is exactly the point I am trying to make.

most of my goals conceded are by corners and marinqhos got 14/16 goals from corners last season. Not included all the other goals scored via corners.

This guy is claiming that 50%+ of his goals conceded are from corners.

I just had a spectacular illustration of everything wrong with the ME in the Spanish Cup final.

I had 6 CCC's, with several one on ones missed, while Madrid scored 3 corners to win 3-2.

Really?

Really glad I am not the only person that has issues with corners. If my team concede one when it was avoidable then I go mad because of how dangerous they seem to be on the match engine.

It almost seems that the only way you can get out of your box from a corner is if either the keeper saves it cleanly or they head it wide/over. If my defence get to the ball it either results in a 16 man scramble in the box or it gets cleared straight back to the opposition which keeps the pressure on. I'm sorry but I'm sure real life pub team defenders are better at dealing with corners than PL defenders are on this match engine.

This guy is again saying that it's unavoidable.

I'm conceding a stupid amount of corners, especially when you are winning and the opposition scores a corner in the second half. Not only corners, but goals that result from corners, maybe a deflected shot. I'd say just about every goal I concede is from a set piece at the moment, and I train set pieces

Why doesn't he do something about it then?

Is it common to concede a ridiculous number of goals from corners on FM14?

I seemed to be having problems defending them, so I decided to record some non-selective info to see if I was just being cynical. I wasn't; I've conceded 10 goals from corners in my last 8 games! 10 in 8! I have logical defending corner instructions set. My CBs are Lovren and Astori who are both decent in the air. And okay, I have Valdes in goal who isn't the best aerially but surely these numbers are ridiculous?!

Is this common, and is there any way of stopping it?

The numbers are ridiculous are they? We are looking at, (from what I can see anyway), a rise from 13% total goals to 17% total goals. I would say that's an issue of sorts, but isn't that a better % than previous issues where the corner exploit resulted in huge numbers of goals against the AI? It wasn't a bug then simply because it was against the AI. Then it was a "corner exploit". lol

I just lost to Stoke 2-1, conceding both goals from corners, which is the last straw for me. It's ruining the game for me unfortunately and I won't be playing until it's rectified. I don't understand how others persevere.

This bloke now says he isn't playing the game anymore because it's "ruining the game for me".

I've done a detailed analysis of this in my save.

Corners are scored at roughly double the rate of real life.

This bloke has made some reasonable posts on the topic, but this is just ridiculous. Words honestly fail me. He is suggesting that goals have gone from approx 13% of total goals to 26% of total goals.

THAT is what is being responded too directly in this thread.

[Jimbokav1971]

Conceding/scoring. You focus on the conceding part of course, but again it's irrelevant. If your own team doesn't score or concede too many goals from corners, some AI team most certainly will. Suggestions about the ME cheating are of course ludicrous. As is the suggestion that the problem is minor just because you can find tactical tricks to skew your own numbers. The issue I have with the latter is that it only winds up people and drags these threads out into arguments about things that are irrelevant. The correct answer to the OP is that there are too many corner goals in general which means you'll likely score/concede too many yourself unless you figure out tricks to reduce this tactically (or take advantage of it because every imbalance can of course be exploited.) No further arguments required unless it's providing stats to challenge/confirm the numbers.

I agree with you. There does seem to be a slight increase in the numbers of goals scored from corners compared to other areas, (although if you look SI have commented that they are happy with these numbers. They are just not happy with certain aspects of it, (not sure which if I'm honest).

I'm not about creating "tactical tricks to skew my own numbers".

What I'm about is proving that tactical instructions have a direct link to the numbers of goals that you concede from corners. You might undertsand this. I certainly understand this. The problem in this thread and the other one, is that a great many people posting in it DO NOT understand this.

That is the crux of it and was the reason for the "badabing" comment earlier.

It was someone who has posted regularly on this, acknowledging that actually how many corners you concede is directly related to the tactical instructions given.

[Edit]

18 games and 132 corners now.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Firstly, where are you taking the 13% figure from? The widely acknowledged number is around 11% and that is for the Premier League where the majority of corner kicks are taken long as opposed to the continental style where more and more are being taken short to focus on ball retention as opposed to pure percentage play.

Secondly, the badabing comment is adding nothing except aggravating the arguments. That's why I dislike it. There are too many corner goals in the game judging by the statistics provided, the average user therefore will concede/score too many and to dismiss it as only a tactical issue, which is what such comments are hinting at is as wrong as it is to accuse the ME of cheating.

Thirdly, using set piece tactics to make your own teams statistics noticeably deviate from the mean is using a trick to skew the numbers. It's exploiting a weakness in the ME. Just like using the corner tricks in the past was. The extent is arguable, the principle is not.

[Jimbokav1971]

Firstly, where are you taking the 13% figure from? The widely acknowledged number is around 11% and that is for the Premier League where the majority of corner kicks are taken long as opposed to the continental style where more and more are being taken short to focus on ball retention as opposed to pure percentage play.

I got it from a statto mate if mine. No idea how accurate it is. I asked and he answered.

Where are you getting 11% from?

[Jimbokav1971]

Secondly, the badabing comment is adding nothing except aggravating the arguments. That's why I dislike it. There are too many corner goals in the game judging by the statistics provided, the average user therefore will concede/score too many and to dismiss it as only a tactical issue, which is what such comments are hinting at is as wrong as it is to accuse the ME of cheating.

With respect, the comment wasn't there for you to like it, (I'm sure). It was to emphasise a point that is still being argued against.

You see you have just done it there. There is a sweeping generalisation by the ill-informed on this forum that they are conceding significantly too many goals from corners as a result of issues with the ME and that there is absolutely nothing they can do with it. The stats say that there are slightly too many corners in the game. I'm not trying to dispute that, (no matter how muvh you try to pretend that I am). I am suggesting again and again and again, (and providing evidence to back it up, that while there are slightly too many corners being scored in the game, if you want to concede fewer, then it is really not that hard to do so.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Thirdly, using set piece tactics to make your own teams statistics noticeably deviate from the mean is using a trick to skew the numbers. It's exploiting a weakness in the ME

Nonsense. After the next patch is released, and that 'weakness' in the ME is addressed, those who currently use the tactics at their disposal to help reduce the amount of goals conceded from corners will see very little difference in their statistics. Therefore by definition, what they have been doing is merely using the tools at their disposal to logically try and avoid goals from corners rather than exploit any weakness.

This is where it differs from those who used exploits to score goals from corners in previous versions, because once that particular weakness was addressed, they were no longer able to use the same method to garner success. Therefore proving that what they were doing WAS actually exploiting a weakness.

[Jimbokav1971]

Thirdly, using set piece tactics to make your own teams statistics noticeably deviate from the mean is using a trick to skew the numbers. It's exploiting a weakness in the ME. Just like using the corner tricks in the past was. The extent is arguable, the principle is not.

That is not what I am doing, nor what I am trying to do.

I am purely using my own results in this instance as categoric and incontrovertable proof that if you want to concede fewer corners, then you can.

It's as simple as that. I am not suggesting that there are not too many corners, (there are), or.... well I don't know what on Earth else you can think I was suggesting. All I have said time again is that the reason that people are conceding "ridiculous numbers of goals from corners", is because of their instructions, and if they want to stop that, then...... they can.

The reason that people are conceding significant numbers of corners isn't because of the ME. That would only cause a slight increase in corners conceded. The reason that they are conceding significant numbers of corners is because of the instructions they give their team.

[Edit]

19 games and 147 corners now since I conceded from a corner.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Also, people are simply concentrating on the numbers of goals conceded from corners and not looking at the bigger picture as to why these corners are conceded in the first place. Yes, the actual corner numbers are too high, but it's all relative. All teams are affected. If you're conceding 20+ corners per game, that's 20+ attacks the opposition have had towards your goal. Why are they getting near your goalmouth so often? What are you doing to try and repel this? The less corners you concede, it stands to reason the less corner goals you'll lose. And stopping the oppositon from having multiple shots or attacks is definitely tactical.

I'm guessing that's one of the reasons why it's so tricky for SI to get right. It's not just simply a case of pressing a button and the number of corners are reduced, there's a multitude of knock on effects to this. Personally, I don't think they really have to do all that much, but they have to be careful that one tweak here doesn't cause a massive rift somewhere else. Rather them than me!

[Äktsjon Männ]

Nonsense. After the next patch is released, and that 'weakness' in the ME is addressed, those who currently use the tactics at their disposal to help reduce the amount of goals conceded from corners will see very little difference in their statistics. Therefore by definition, what they have been doing is merely using the tools at their disposal to logically try and avoid goals from corners rather than exploit any weakness.

This is where it differs from those who used exploits to score goals from corners in previous versions, because once that particular weakness was addressed, they were no longer able to use the same method to garner success. Therefore proving that what they were doing WAS actually exploiting a weakness.

There is not much anyone can do in reality to tactically increase/reduce corner goals significantly. The most exceptional teams at scoring from set pieces are those who build big strong teams to take advantage of percentages. If you look at Stoke's stats under Tony Pulis over the years for example there is not a consistently huge advantage they get from corners, but what they were was consistent. They consistently focused their overall play on trying to increase the volume of their set pieces in order to maximize their percentage advantage.

Now in FM you have scripted routines leading to very similar results every time a set piece is taken. Of course you can try to do that in reality - to run a specific play each time but the difference is that the opponents react. They don't in FM. That's why specific routines have very little role in real life set piece statistics. There are exceptions. Man Utd last season gained an advantage last season on attacking corners by simply replacing Rio Ferdinand's and Patrice Evra's role. On the surface this seems like an illogical change - Ferdinand is a tall centre half and Evra is a 5'7'' or something full back. But it worked because Evra is very good at attacking the ball and the opponents weren't expecting it. He scored 3 or 4 goals from a set piece in a very short period of time before everyone started to take notice and adapt. He's barely scored any since.

What you claim is that using a set piece routine is exploitative only when your advantage is attacking. And that when your own numbers deviate from the league average but not from reality it's not exploiting a weakness. THIS is pure nonsense. If every other team in the league managed to consistently only score 50 league goals in a season but there was a way to make user teams score 80 then using it would still be exploiting the ME despite you getting realistic results. That's an extreme example but the same thing in principle. You can use set piece tactics to make your own team concede/score a realistic amount of corner goals while the AI can't. Therefore your results are exploitative because you have an unfair advantage over the AI.

[Dagenham_Dave]

You can use set piece tactics to make your own team concede/score a realistic amount of corner goals while the AI can't

The AI has the same access to the same tactics I have. It's not my fault they don't utilise them better. Perhaps that's what needs tweaked under the hood.

However, this doesn't detract from the fact that I can use the tools available in-game in a logical fashion to help prevent goals from being scored from corners. It's not exploiting a weakness because there's no specific weakness there to be exploited. The 'weakness' is in the amount of corners in-game. What I'm doing to try and prevent corner goals I would be doing regardless of how many corners there are in a match. If the majority of corners were being scored in the same way (like the near post corner exploit of yore), and I set up instructions to specifically combat this - THAT would be exploiting a weakness. I'm just using the tools in game to defend set pieces as I've always done. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Äktsjon Männ]

The AI has the same access to the same tactics I have. It's not my fault they don't utilise them better. Perhaps that's what needs tweaked under the hood.

However, this doesn't detract from the fact that I can use the tools available in-game in a logical fashion to help prevent goals from being scored from corners. It's not exploiting a weakness because there's no specific weakness there to be exploited. The 'weakness' is in the amount of corners in-game. What I'm doing to try and prevent corner goals I would be doing regardless of how many corners there are in a match. If the majority of corners were being scored in the same way (like the near post corner exploit of yore), and I set up instructions to specifically combat this - THAT would be exploiting a weakness. I'm just using the tools in game to defend set pieces as I've always done. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're not LOOKING to exploit the ME. But you are doing it regardless. As am I, there is no way I will just sit here and watch the AI keep banging in goals from the penalty spot after my own players keep heading it back there from the back post, of course I will look for all sorts of ways to reduce that. Similarly I will not just accept that a significant percentage of my corners taken go out of play (which they did on default) so I change the target in a way where this doesn't happen anymore. I still watch AI punt their corners straight into goal kicks while having a considerable advantage because my players don't. I am exploiting the ME despite the fact that the way my team take and defend corners is much closer to reality than AI's.

That's why the user tactics are irrelevant in the bigger picture which is what I'm arguing. Set piece routines play such a tiny role in reality as opposed to training and personnel that if you can get a noticeable advantage out of it in FM then there is already an imbalance. That is why there have pretty much always been attacking corner exploits. It is a difficult job for SI no doubt as they somehow have to be able to balance set piece goals against real life stats and tweaking the effectiveness of scripted routines is the easiest way. Hopefully in the future though we will get a more dynamic system with more variety even if it means even less control over routines than we have now. Until that, the only relevant argument is the overall statistics vs real life numbers part.

[Dagenham_Dave]

This past season, I conceded 6 goals from corners.

The season after the next patch. I reckon I should concede about the same number (assuming I've still got the same quality of player). Might be a bit less, might be a bit more.

Therefore, what exactly am I 'exploiting' here? I really can't understand how logically using the tools the game gives you in an attempt to cut down the amount of corners conceded in a match is exploiting the ME? Unless you regard every tactical action you do as exploiting it in some way.