Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[Ackter]

No, I'm judging them based on nearly 10 years of dealing with people on these forums complaining about the same thing.

Step 1. Go to the tactics forum

Step 2. Apply what you've learned

Step 3. Still happening? Take a trip to the bugs forum

If people are continually having the same sorts of results, it's a tactical issue. Note: These people are not complaining about one off matches, they're complaining about consistently losing.

[dooro23]

I can assure you there were a few CCCs, as I also said it has already been said by SI that the game is not detecting when a CCC is indeed a CCC and will be fixed in the next update.

I was referring directly to schotsmannetje, but with the same reasoning explaining your screen even with addes CCCs. You played a german cup match with a top division team, newly promoted or not, vs a lower league team. Those matches where the lower league club restricts the superior club to long or mid range shots but keeps the box mostly clean are happening a lot. Those can end disastrous for the inferior club, or it can work it out via a lucky punch. That's the script for quite a lot of those matches in reality, I watch them.

[jlawlor91]

All logic out of the game is gone. Every time I try a new save, i get screwed over by every imaginable way possible. When I control games I get countered, when I counter games I get controlled.

Never been so angry at an FM before in my life.

[Ackter]

All logic out of the game is gone. Every time I try a new save, i get screwed over by every imaginable way possible. When I control games I get countered, when I counter games I get controlled.

Never been so angry at an FM before in my life.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327822-Asking-For-Help-PLEASE-READ-THIS

[daylight]

I was referring directly to schotsmannetje, but with the same reasoning explaining your screen even with addes CCCs. You played a german cup match with a top division team, newly promoted or not, vs a lower league team. Those matches where the lower league club restricts the superior club to long or mid range shots but keeps the box mostly clean are happening a lot. Those can end disastrous for the inferior club, or it can work it out via a lucky punch. That's the script for quite a lot of those matches in reality, I watch them.

As you can see from the screenshot dooro there was only 6 shots from range, the other 30 were all inside the box, quite a few were in and around the 6 yard box.

[Schotsmannetje]

No, I'm judging them based on nearly 10 years of dealing with people on these forums complaining about the same thing.

Step 1. Go to the tactics forum

Step 2. Apply what you've learned

Step 3. Still happening? Take a trip to the bugs forum

If people are continually having the same sorts of results, it's a tactical issue. Note: These people are not complaining about one off matches, they're complaining about consistently losing.

That's not really fair is it? How can you tell your tactic is not creating enough CCC's when FM doesn't register the amount of CCC's properly? Until FM starts registering the amount of CCC's properly you can't really tell if you create enough decent chances.

Although I agree with you that in my case, when I reported it, it was indeed a tactical issue. I'm just saying that until the CCC issue is solved, the stats in FM aren't really representative of how well your tactic is functioning.

EDIT: If you watch games in full you'd know of course how much CCC's you're creating. But to be perfectly honest I don't think many people that come here do. And I just want to add that I have a lot of respect for the whay you moderators handle things in here. Including stubborn individuals as myself

[Ackter]

That's not really fair is it? How can you tell your tactic is not creating enough CCC's when FM doesn't register the amount of CCC's properly? Until FM starts registering the amount of CCC's properly you can't really tell if you create enough decent chances.

Although I agree with you that in my case, when I reported it, it was indeed a tactical issue. I'm just saying that until the CCC issue is solved, the stats in FM aren't really representative of how well your tactic is functioning.

The stats taken over dozens of matches are representative enough. Stop looking at just one match and taking the whole picture into account.

As you can see from the screenshot dooro there was only 6 shots from range, the rest were all inside the box, quite a few were in and around the 6 yard box.

You've posted one match. These people are complaining about consistently losing to situations like this.

I think this is the reason you and wwfan bashed heads, you completely ignore the context of the complaints.

Now that's enough, this is a feedback thread, not a tactics thread.

All tactical discussion to the Tactics Forum.

All bugs to the Bugs Forum.

[Schotsmannetje]

The stats taken over dozens of matches are representative enough. Stop looking at just one match and taking the whole picture into account.

To be fair, SI did have a look at the whole picture and they are changing the way FM registers CCC's. That tells me the stats aren't representitive at all.

But enough stubborness from me tonight! I'll go back to playing FM haha.

[themadsheep2001]

That's not really fair is it? How can you tell your tactic is not creating enough CCC's when FM doesn't register the amount of CCC's properly? Until FM starts registering the amount of CCC's properly you can't really tell if you create enough decent chances.

Although I agree with you that in my case, when I reported it, it was indeed a tactical issue. I'm just saying that until the CCC issue is solved, the stats in FM aren't really representative of how well your tactic is functioning.

By watching the chance(s) itself. I've personally never been a fan of the CCC stat, in FM or in real life. I think its too subjective as abaseline definition. In FM i think it can hold people back from actually looking at what kind of chances are being created, and just going off the numbers instead. Football cannot entirely be played out by stats. This is why i always say people should look at the tactics thread first

[Ackter]

To be fair, SI did have a look at the whole picture and they are changing the way FM registers CCC's. That tells me the stats aren't representitive at all.

But enough stubborness from me tonight! I'll go back to playing FM haha.

When a team is continually losing despite having the most possession and shots, that's a pretty obvious and loud stat.

[dooro23]

As you can see from the screenshot dooro there was only 6 shots from range, the other 30 were all inside the box, quite a few were in and around the 6 yard box.

I was only once mentioning LONG shots, whether those other ones were mid-range shots or anything that wasn't a CCC (and correctly classed as not a CCC, not anything else because im just looking at one single screenshot) is absolutly trivial. I tried to explain how those high-shot-count matches vs. lower league teams can happen with possible results ranging from upset to goal bonanza, in either case possible with a bad tactical setup (not exclusively ofc). I didn't once argue what your tactic or anything else is like, just because i saw that one screenshot, I'm just arguing that your screenshot is any proof at all of the words paired with it. Stop turning posts upside down and try to read and understand them, it's really annoying.

[Ackter]

Please, that's enough tactical discussion. It's been spamming up this thread for 10 pages now.

[Boydy9]

This may have been said before but if might help someone -

If like I was you're struggling to get into the game, not quite getting your team to play well or do what you want and are just generally not having fun playing. Go into the tactics forum and find a tactic to download that has good feedback and is if a similar formation/style as you are looking for. Download it, see what differs between yours and it and try to work out where you may be going wrong.

I downloaded one last night after 2 weeks of finding the game a bit of a chore and did this, made some small adjustments and played a few games, a few more changes so it was "my" tactic and I'm now loving the game and hooked like every other year.

[baderlfc]

I've played football manager/championship manager since championship manager 3 which i believe was 1998(?) so 15 years of spending money and always got obsessed and had hugely enjoyable games.

Now this year I notice the player instructions have changed for (in my opinion) the worse, and more seriously the team instructions have been reduced to just 2 options?!

Also the match engine is full of bugs and despite trying 5 teams of varying stature I can't get any sort of form going. I find my strikers (ranging from suarez at liverpool to blackstock at forest) are completely useless. They have no idea how to finish regardless of finishing stat and often blaze wide/over or straight at keeper. Yet when opposition get a chance they always score whether it be a clincal finish or a 2nd/3rd rebound until it goes in!

Also full backs don't seem to do anything and no matter what defensive tactics I use I can't keep tight at the back.. and I don't want to have to play 3 at the back to get better defence as some suggest on various forums! that is not realistic!!! 90% of teams in football play 4 at the back!

When its got to a stage that danny simpson and assou-ekotto are getting slated by the media in a QPR team that should stroll the championship is when i know i've had enough!

I've paid £30 for something that i can't enjoy full stop currently.... waiting and checking about 10 times a day for a big update that i'm sure SI must be working on!!!! please!!!!!! sort it out!!!

[thomas_e]

I've seen some posts being related to the in-game editor? Can I ask what the arguments for creating such a horrible thing were?

I always enjoy taking part in challenges/competitions created by users on forums (haven't been on this forum long, does the Mods create any competitions btw? It's always great fun competing in those). Will it be possible to spot who has used the editor?

[Ackter]

I've played football manager/championship manager since championship manager 3 which i believe was 1998(?) so 15 years of spending money and always got obsessed and had hugely enjoyable games.

Now this year I notice the player instructions have changed for (in my opinion) the worse, and more seriously the team instructions have been reduced to just 2 options?!

Also the match engine is full of bugs and despite trying 5 teams of varying stature I can't get any sort of form going. I find my strikers (ranging from suarez at liverpool to blackstock at forest) are completely useless. They have no idea how to finish regardless of finishing stat and often blaze wide/over or straight at keeper. Yet when opposition get a chance they always score whether it be a clincal finish or a 2nd/3rd rebound until it goes in!

Also full backs don't seem to do anything and no matter what defensive tactics I use I can't keep tight at the back.. and I don't want to have to play 3 at the back to get better defence as some suggest on various forums! that is not realistic!!! 90% of teams in football play 4 at the back!

When its got to a stage that danny simpson and assou-ekotto are getting slated by the media in a QPR team that should stroll the championship is when i know i've had enough!

I've paid £30 for something that i can't enjoy full stop currently.... waiting and checking about 10 times a day for a big update that i'm sure SI must be working on!!!! please!!!!!! sort it out!!!

Best thing you can do is visit the tactics forum. This thread explains the best methodology for putting together tactics that will work:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/366111-How-to-Play-FM14-A-Twelve-Step-Guide

or if you want something more specific, this thread is the best way to get the answers you're looking for:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/327822-Asking-For-Help-PLEASE-READ-THIS

If, after doing this, you're still having troubles, it'll be worth bringing it up over in the bugs forum for SI to investigate.

[Toxigenic]

I have just literally seen a player tackle his own team-mate after kicking off.

Wat.

Can upload video proof if for some reason i'm not believed cause it's probably my tactics. *sigh*

[Ackter]

Post it in the bugs forum, please.

[kutason]

I buy game and cant play ((( When new patch ?

[Ackter]

Why can't you play?

[Fabio MVP]

I buy game and cant play ((( When new patch ?

Actually yes you can play.

[kutason]

Very much bugs

[Toxigenic]

I have just literally seen a player tackle his own team-mate after kicking off.

Wat.

Can upload video proof if for some reason i'm not believed cause it's probably my tactics. *sigh*

Post it in the bugs forum, please.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/373609-Same-team-players-tackle-each-other.?p=9201863#post9201863

Players tackling each other. Posting a link here to the video for more exposure.

Shocking really for a game in 2014, must be my tactics though.

[Ackter]

Drop the attitude, it's not wanted.

You may also want to read this:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/368793

[Ackter]

Very much bugs

Post any bugs you're experiencing in the bugs forum to make sure SI are aware of the issues.

[Toxigenic]

Drop the attitude, it's not wanted.

You may also want to read this:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/368793

How would you like me to react after paying £34.99 a few hours ago, play my first game in the premier league and see this? I don't even...

[hluraven]

How would you like me to react after paying £34.99 a few hours ago, play my first game in the premier league and see this? I don't even...

You reacted fine with your first post, then for some reason you went back and edited it to add a load of sarcastic nonsense about tactics. Following up with more of the same for no good reason just a few minutes later. It's posted in the bugs forum and referenced here, why the extra nonsense?

[roykela]

Overly documented and about to be fixed (hopefully) but it's getting on my nerves now

[Toxigenic]

You reacted fine with your first post, then for some reason you went back and edited it to add a load of sarcastic nonsense about tactics. Following up with more of the same for no good reason just a few minutes later. It's posted in the bugs forum and referenced here, why the extra nonsense?

Fair enough.

[balldoktor81]

can someone tell me if there's a thread about sponsorships for fm 2014/2013? how do they work? will they increase over a period of time...??? (higher rep???)

[Sarin1]

The problem is not tactics.

Hell I am winning the game, on a 16 games without losing streak at the moment I believe.

The problem is the unrealistic match engine, players doing things that they have no reason to do.

Keepers walk the ball into the net,

Defenders just running next to opposition players without tackling, even with changing the defensive settings, nothing stops it.

Wingers making the poorest decisions you could imagine.

The amount of shots you get on target without goals

Players with high stats doing terrible terrible things, such as some of the best strikers in the world with 18+ finishing, ending games with 5.0 because they missed a dozen taps ins a game, yes players miss goals but this goes too far.

These are just the barest of examples

The game should be as realistic a football simulation as possible, where people can go in and make teams play the way they would like.

NOT the case where you have to go to the tactics section and read hundreds of pages of guides to end up playing a small handful of finely calibrated tactics to get anything that exploits the flawed match engine enough to win your games.

AND I AM WINNING, WINNING ISNT THE PROBLEM.

It is that the match engine makes the entire experience feel poor, very poor.

How can you sit there watching the hand crafted tactics you loving built pick up results, while your players tackle each other, knock the ball out under no pressure, shoot from 40 yards out while clean through on goal for no reason, miss 5 chances inside the box GAME AFTER GAME, jog next to attackers with 3 other team mates while none of your tackling, just stand around not doing anything at all and be proud.

You win the game and its like "Great, my players only did 43 totally unrealistic things, and the keeper who is terrible only stopped 30 of my on target chances from 5 of my world class players, which meant i win 1-0, GREAT WORK TEAM"

UI is great, features work well, could use some tweaking with the players sales.

But if the match engine doesnt get some serious love soon, then the entire game, unless you just like to win titles using specific tactics and do not want an actual simulation of football, is pointless in playing.

[SurferJames]

feedback forum became tactical forum here is reason why it became that way:

1. everyone looks at this forum page, so more replys.

[RTHerringbone]

Keepers walk the ball into the net,

Defenders just running next to opposition players without tackling, even with changing the defensive settings, nothing stops it.

Wingers making the poorest decisions you could imagine.

The amount of shots you get on target without goals

Players with high stats doing terrible terrible things, such as some of the best strikers in the world with 18+ finishing, ending games with 5.0 because they missed a dozen taps ins a game

All of these issues are due to be addressed by the next update.

Yes, it is frustrating, but yes, it will get fixed.

[Gah Rii]

Over the past 4 games I've hit the woodwork 16 times. Fix it, please. I keep getting the same press conference questions "you watched as your team hit the woodwork X number of times.." yada yada..........

[themadsheep2001]

Can we not have people reposting an entire wall of text, with just a one sentence reply please ( that isnt feedback to boot)

Thank you.

[Suzie MUFC]

We pay for game with milions bugs.Very good

You've been instructed by one of the moderators to report any bugs you have experienced in the Bugs Forum. If you don't report them and they haven't been spotted already by the testers, there's a pretty good chance they won't be fixed.

It's up to you.

[akkm]

so decided to experiment playing players out of position to see how attributes affect players performance by position...so I picked man utd and eventually settled on playing anders lingergaard and khune (keeper signed from south Africa) as attacking midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 with phil jones and rotated other defenders as the other attacking midfielder...they had no problems at all playing the positions EVEN THE KEEPERS...were able to pass and move and get involved in team play no problems at all and get plenty of shots away. in one game played hull and dominated the game...58% of possession and 30 shots to ten...best of all though was the two keepers scored the two goals !!!!!!

also then moved two keepers to play deep lying midfielders and last game albeit a 0-0 draw at home to Norwich the two keepers had a pass completion rate over 80% with lindergaard having 94 passes in the game

arguably they didn't perform as well as high class technical players would and didn't experiment with other tactics to see if they would have performed better but that they were able to perform to the level they did is absurd

[Toxigenic]

Over the past 4 games I've hit the woodwork 16 times. Fix it, please. I keep getting the same press conference questions "you watched as your team hit the woodwork X number of times.." yada yada..........

I find it hard to defend SI but, Liverpool last season IRL? It was crazy how much they would hit the post/bar. But still....

[Gah Rii]

That's a problem

[daylight]

Can we not have people reposting an entire wall of text, with just a one sentence reply please ( that isnt feedback to boot)

Thank you.

Fair enough themadsheep.

@ Sarin1

You are right, the only problem is when people post here we are told by certain people that it is our tactics.

SI have said there is a problem with the ME and CCC.

If a poster comes on here and says they have lost after having 36 at goal and 18 on target but no CCC and the opposition had only 4 chances at goal and won 1-0, then we are told it is our tactics.

If a poster comes on and says they had 36 shots at goal with 18 on target with no CCCs and win 9-0 they are told "Bad tactics can still give you good results from time to time."

So in other words regardless it is bad tactics!

I am having a really successful save but I am still seeing some very strange things going on, some posters just want to turn a blind eye to the problems and blame the player.

The funny thing is when the patch comes and hopefully improves everything the same posters will then back the new ME with no thought of the old ME.

[Keno777]

All of these issues are due to be addressed by the next update.

Yes, it is frustrating, but yes, it will get fixed.

Thank god

[themadsheep2001]

Fair enough themadsheep.

@ Sarin1

You are right, the only problem is when people post here we are told by certain people that it is our tactics.

SI have said there is a problem with the ME and CCC.

If a poster comes on here and says they have lost after having 36 at goal and 18 on target but no CCC and the opposition had only 4 chances at goal and won 1-0, then we are told it is our tactics.

If a poster comes on and says they had 36 shots at goal with 18 on target with no CCCs and win 9-0 they are told "Bad tactics can still give you good results from time to time."

So in other words regardless it is bad tactics!

I am having a really successful save but I am still seeing some very strange things going on, some posters just want to turn a blind eye to the problems and blame the player.

The funny thing is when the patch comes and hopefully improves everything the same posters will then back the new ME with no thought of the old ME.

You have misconstrued what Ackter said, even though he clarified it.

They said there is an issue with SOME CCCs, which is exactly what Ackter said to you.

And yes, consistent issues like that are generally tactical, hence why we say people should check the tactics forum first. We've danced this dance before.

[Lawlore]

But surely that (going back to 2D) just serves to highlight that a fair few of the problems you're encountering aren't actually with the ME, but with the graphical representation of it, which is an altogether different matter? How the ME functions and how that is shown on-screen are two completely different things.

2D and 3D use exactly the same ME, playing the same match the same way, so you can't really criticise the ME on one without those problems also being there on the other?

[daylight]

You have misconstrued what Ackter said, even though he clarified it.

They said there is an issue with SOME CCCs, which is exactly what Ackter said to you.

And yes, consistent issues like that are generally tactical, hence why we say people should check the tactics forum first. We've danced this dance before.

Yes he clarified it by spouting some nonsense about why me and wwfan "bashed heads", he was also wrong there.

As I said I am being very successful in my save, even so I still see some very strange things going on.

I can make my peace that I get "lucky with a bad tactic" maybe once or twice.

I have won promotion twice with this "bad tactic", I am still seeing way too many shots, way too many goal attempts not classed as a CCC, too many times a player making a bad decision or a player running half the length of a pitch to get clean through and then turn back and try to win a corner of another player.

I could go on...

The ME has real problems at the moment, as much as I find people just whining about it without posting it in the bugs forum a problem, I also find players blindly blaming the player an even bigger problem!

Looking at shooting stats is useless at the moment, given the problem with the ME recognising what is a CCC, how a player can then rip apart a players tactic given only the CCC amazes me.

It does not matter if it is 1 game or 10 games, no player should be able to tear apart someones entire tactic on the CCC alone after SI have said there is a problem with it.

[Pelz]

But surely that (going back to 2D) just serves to highlight that a fair few of the problems you're encountering aren't actually with the ME, but with the graphical representation of it, which is an altogether different matter? How the ME functions and how that is shown on-screen are two completely different things.

2D and 3D use exactly the same ME, playing the same match the same way, so you can't really criticise the ME on one without those problems also being there on the other?

Oh I'm not at all denying that the graphical representation is the main culprit here - am actually finding a lot of the tactical nuances implemented in 14 head and shoulders above what we had in 12 and 13 - it's just the animations are so poor they exacerbate the problem and hence you get more, and more, frustrated. Which is why I recommend 2D - the ME bugs everyone's aware of are still there... it's just that they're so much more tolerable and hence people may get a little bit more enjoyment out of the game.

[Nadessico]

The ME has real problems at the moment, as much as I find people just whining about it without posting it in the bugs forum a problem, I also find players blindly blaming the player an even bigger problem!

Looking at shooting stats is useless at the moment, given the problem with the ME recognising what is a CCC, how a player can then rip apart a players tactic given only the CCC amazes me.

It does not matter if it is 1 game or 10 games, no player should be able to tear apart someones entire tactic on the CCC alone after SI have said there is a problem with it.

At the same time no player should be able to blame the ME after just 1 match and say it's all the games fault. Works both ways. You need to see consistant issues to be able to analyze it, not just some potentially fluke match.

Ackter isn't saying the game is bug free and there are no issues, just that 1 screen shot "can" prove nothing at all

[Gah Rii]

At the same time no player should be able to blame the ME after just 1 match and say it's all the games fault. Works both ways. You need to see consistant issues to be able to analyze it, not just some potentially fluke match.

Ackter isn't saying the game is bug free and there are no issues, just that 1 screen shot "can" prove nothing at all

I can provide multiple screenshots of matches where I hit the woodwork 3-5 times quite often.

[daylight]

At the same time no player should be able to blame the ME after just 1 match and say it's all the games fault. Works both ways. You need to see consistant issues to be able to analyze it, not just some potentially fluke match.

Ackter isn't saying the game is bug free and there are no issues, just that 1 screen shot "can" prove nothing at all

If you read the part before what you quoted, you will see I have won 2 promotions and I still see the problems.

[Nadessico]

I can provide multiple screenshots of matches where I hit the woodwork 3-5 times quite often.

That's all he's asking people to do, post evidence of the situations in the bugs forums.

If you read the part before what you quoted, you will see I have won 2 promotions and I still see the problems.

Never said there aren't any. I won the premiership with Everton on my first season and i've seen problems too. It's just hard for anyone to pick out what are issues and what are tactical problems from 1 moan and a single screenshot that is starting to fill the thread up.

[daylight]

I will also add that when I am not playing FM and in my free time I am helping on other forums.

I hate to blow my own whistle but I have helped many players on different forums, I have helped a lot on Steam since FM moved there and I have been thanked by people at SI for doing so.

I am not just a guy that likes to hate on the game, I am a guy that grew up with the game and I want others to enjoy.