Football Manager 2014 - Full Game Feedback/Tilbakemelding 14.1.3

[Kriss]

I lost password for my username khudilo.Do a search and u will know how good or bad i have been tactically for years since fm 2008.Beautiful football.

Btw i can win easily with arsenal.But i cannot stand how keepers dive frequently and strikers miss goal posts from minimal range.

I'll arrange for the two accounts to be merged.

[forameuss]

These particular issues weren't there when the game was released, they arose because of SI's policy of continuing development up to and beyond release, which some call commendable and some (like me) call too damned risky

My policy would be to code lock the ME 2 months before release and then only fix absolute game breakers or things which could be guaranteed to have no knock on effects.

Then I'd say to us (Joe Public) "that is the ME for FM14 like it or loathe it, we're off to Hawaii for 2 weeks and when we come back we'll start on FM15"

This is pretty much it. You have the two options Kriss mentions - continuous development or a code freeze. Continuous development has the risk of more bugs, but the benefit of always moving the game forwards. Code freeze...well you'll have a stable game, but it would stagnate very quickly. They'll be damned whichever one they choose, but I know which one I prefer.

[Nadessico]

This is pretty much it. You have the two options Kriss mentions - continuous development or a code freeze. Continuous development has the risk of more bugs, but the benefit of always moving the game forwards. Code freeze...well you'll have a stable game, but it would stagnate very quickly. They'll be damned whichever one they choose, but I know which one I prefer.

which will go into the realm of people who suggest a new game one year, a cheaper data update (with some small changes) the year after, then a new game again ect. Both have their pro's and cons though.

[TMoE]

Unfortunately we can't release any update until we have tied up a few loose ends so nothing this week. I'm as frustrated as you, but we have to be diligent.

At least, it's nice to hear when can't the update release. I don't need to come this website till next week. Thanks for information.

[Ackter]

My policy would be to code lock the ME 2 months before release and then only fix absolute game breakers or things which could be guaranteed to have no knock on effects.

Just not something that can be done as something as complex as the match engine needs a release for it to be balanced correctly. It's always a slow and shaky start because of it, but it leads to something much, much better than if it was using your strategy.

[Ackter]

which will go into the realm of people who suggest a new game one year, a cheaper data update (with some small changes) the year after, then a new game again ect. Both have their pro's and cons though.

Would also never happen. SI is a business and their annual release strategy is now locked in. It would be devastating to skip a release - look what happened when Championship Manager tried it (now I'm obviously not saying the effect would be as bad on SI as it was on CM, but it would still be bad).

On top of that, it wouldn't actually change anything all that much if they had two years - the same amount of work would be being done on everything in both strategies.

[Kriss]

Just not something that can be done as something as complex as the match engine needs a release for it to be balanced correctly. It's always a slow and shaky start because of it, but it leads to something much, much better than if it was using your strategy.

Yes it can be done but the only people it would please is us Mods

[Chris21]

Bit disappointed in all honesty.

But I wouldn't want an update which is released when not ready so no good moaning about too much. However the response since the game was released has been abject at best. No patch for the full game yet and its been 3 weeks and 1 day since it was released? Not great service is it? Still its not unplayable but I'd imagine some people are like me and are getting fed up with same bugs. These bugs can be played with of course but when you've played with them for so long it becomes tedious. Of course some will say we don't get an update til Xmas normally but in my view the kind of bugs that are currently in the game shouldn't be in for full release. Its poor in my opinion, isn't that what the BETA is for? To get rid of silly things.

Nevermind though, I'm sure when the update is released hopefully by the next millennium we can all enjoy the game without the frustration.

[jimbob1000]

jimbob

The irony is that it's very likely that when the update hits, his teams are more than likely going to struggle badly, as exploitations in the current match engine will (should!) be all but be eradicated.

I don't use exploits, not even the corner bug.

Be lucky!

[DrizzitD]

Unfortunately we can't release any update until we have tied up a few loose ends so nothing this week. I'm as frustrated as you, but we have to be diligent.

Thank you for the update! We tend to get inpatient when we have no word at all but with a quick update like this so we know not to refresh this site all weekend I have no problem with waiting.

[forameuss]

I don't use exploits, not even the corner bug.

Be lucky!

Maybe you should, it might suit your playstyle.

[tomtuck01]

Bit disappointed in all honesty.

But I wouldn't want an update which is released when not ready so no good moaning about too much. However the response since the game was released has been abject at best. No patch for the full game yet and its been 3 weeks and 1 day since it was released? Not great service is it? Still its not unplayable but I'd imagine some people are like me and are getting fed up with same bugs. These bugs can be played with of course but when you've played with them for so long it becomes tedious. Of course some will say we don't get an update til Xmas normally but in my view the kind of bugs that are currently in the game shouldn't be in for full release. Its poor in my opinion, isn't that what the BETA is for? To get rid of silly things.

Nevermind though, I'm sure when the update is released hopefully by the next millennium we can all enjoy the game without the frustration.

I'm enjoying it just fine thankyou. The only frustration I'm getting is from my own errors of judgement, like underestimating League 2 Kidderminster in the Johnstone's Paint Trophy Southern Semi Final and thus losing.

When an update cones then great. Until then I'll continue to play a game that is remarkably playable for something that many claim isn't.

[jimbob1000]

Maybe you should, it might suit your playstyle.

Unlike the AI i prefer NOT to cheat.

[forameuss]

Unlike the AI i prefer NOT to cheat.

I just assumed that since you seem to push the toys towards the edge of the pram whenever you don't win a game reasonably, that you'd be happy enough to exploit whatever holes there were. How silly of me.

Oh, and if you are using downloadable tactics by the way, then you're highly likely to be exploiting the ME in some way, despite the holier than thou attitude.

[stevereay]

I haven't bought FM 14. First year I've held back on purchasing at release since CM3. The main reason is the ME is often flawed on release and it take a while to get it right. I've ranted on here many times in the past about this and have decided to stick to my guns and not buy until the final update is out.

What has annoyed me over the years is the comment "It will be out when its ready" comment from SI. It is a pain in the butt comment to me and I take it as meh we will release it when we can be bothered which is not the case in any shape or form but that's how it feels to me. I know SI don't go into a new release aiming to have a poor ME and when there are issues they work hard to fix them and release and update as quick a possible. This does take time and as consumers we all want the best game possible now. Waiting is not our strong point.

My previous posts about update strategies have been shot down when i call for more feedback from SI on updating. So here is one last shot at a suggestion to ease people constantly asking when is it out and the mod's constantly say when its ready.

I have recently been playing another game that has a lot of new content added on a regular basis and a lot of patching going on to fix things. On those forums there is a sticky thread call patch update news. It is a locked thread posted by the developers. In it they post what they are working on i.e we are currently working on patch 4.1.4, patch note will be release when patch goes live. Expected release if it passes testing is a month, 2 weeks, end of week, friday as per there internal expected time scales. The post is updated to change the date as they narrow down the window. If the anticipate a date like friday if it looks like the patch has failed as soon as they know they post "issues have arisen in testing. The patch is expect in x weeks or days."

This kind of feedback which takes 2-5 mins to post has massively reduce the amount of posts and threads asking when the latest patch is due out. Might even save some Mod's sanity along the way

Maybe SI could do the same. 5 mins now and again can save so much time and frustration.

Anyway looking forward to getting FM14 in the future and controlling the french revolution at the Toon. Good job i passed french at school

[Ackter]

Unlike the AI i prefer NOT to cheat.

Unlike the AI, you prefer to delude yourself as well.

[forameuss]

I haven't bought FM 14. First year I've held back on purchasing at release since CM3. The main reason is the ME is often flawed on release and it take a while to get it right. I've ranted on here many times in the past about this and have decided to stick to my guns and not buy until the final update is out.

What has annoyed me over the years is the comment "It will be out when its ready" comment from SI. It is a pain in the butt comment to me and I take it as meh we will release it when we can be bothered which is not the case in any shape or form but that's how it feels to me. I know SI don't go into a new release aiming to have a poor ME and when there are issues they work hard to fix them and release and update as quick a possible. This does take time and as consumers we all want the best game possible now. Waiting is not our strong point.

My previous posts about update strategies have been shot down when i call for more feedback from SI on updating. So here is one last shot at a suggestion to ease people constantly asking when is it out and the mod's constantly say when its ready.

I have recently been playing another game that has a lot of new content added on a regular basis and a lot of patching going on to fix things. On those forums there is a sticky thread call patch update news. It is a locked thread posted by the developers. In it they post what they are working on i.e we are currently working on patch 4.1.4, patch note will be release when patch goes live. Expected release if it passes testing is a month, 2 weeks, end of week, friday as per there internal expected time scales. The post is updated to change the date as they narrow down the window. If the anticipate a date like friday if it looks like the patch has failed as soon as they know they post "issues have arisen in testing. The patch is expect in x weeks or days."

This kind of feedback which takes 2-5 mins to post has massively reduce the amount of posts and threads asking when the latest patch is due out. Might even save some Mod's sanity along the way

Maybe SI could do the same. 5 mins now and again can save so much time and frustration.

Anyway looking forward to getting FM14 in the future and controlling the french revolution at the Toon. Good job i passed french at school

They used to comment a lot more on the forums, and got nothing but abuse for it, so they stopped. If users cannot be patient, I don't see why SI should stick their necks out and pander to them, only to probably end up getting nothing but abuse when, INEVITABLY, problems happen and dates slip. I know from experience often that unless you're talking amongst developers, then updates on progress are a very dangerous thing. It puts an idea in a customers head about what something will be, when it could end up being something very, very different. The only safe time to give an update on a feature is when it's released, which is what they do now. Other games do differently, but then other games aren't like FM. I don't think there are any out there you can compare it to in content and possibly complexity.

[HaydarAli]

The beauty of Football Manager is that you can contribute to the improvements and development of the game by giving constructive feedback and reporting bugs because SI Devs really listen to their customers.

One of the reasons why I love this game is because SI's After-Sales Service.

Imo, its the best "pound for pound" After-Sales Service of the world! The Sugar Ray Robinson of the games industry!

That's why imo SI will never have a serious competitor. Competition is what drives products on, but even without or very less competition SI devs are passionate to do their best (every year) for giving us the best football simulation game and therefore they don't rest on their laurels!

Anyway, in order to avoid misunderstanding I'd like to specify that I'm not trying to be clever with anybody.

Remember that PATIENCE is one of the greatest virtues.

Impatience or frustration will not help any situation.

Arnold Glasgow: "The key to everything is patience. You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it open".

I know its hard to be patient, but try to develop it because its really important, among others, to achieve personal peace, to avoid making poor decisions and quick judgements.

Patience & Tips On How to Develop It

How To Be Patient

FM is my favourite game although the last time I've played it was 3 years ago...

After really enjoying for about 1500 hours of gameplay on FM 2010, I said to myself that the next time I'll play FM again is when the sliders will be removed and replaced by a new tactic system even though I was nearly addict to this game: patience is a bitter plant but bears sweet fruits...It's worth the wait because patience pays off.

But guess what? I decided to wait yet again. There are more important "issues" and/or "bugs" in REAL LIFE.

[Hit the upright]

Sure, but how does that relate to darthrodent's point? All those issues are also there for the AI, so despite the lack of realism it's still a fair fight. So you can't expect things to take care of themselves and need to put some effort into it, which is the way I interpreted that post.

(Oh no, what have I just done? I thought I'd never get sucked into this thread... )

With respect you've missed the point, yes those faults also exist for the side managed by the computer which is what I think you mean by the AI, in fact the decisions made during a match outside of any tactical changes or instructions that the human manager makes during the match is all the AI, rather like in real life the managers tell the players how they want them to play and what their roles are and then it’s down to 22 men on the pitch so it’s the same here just swop 22 individuals brains for one AI (good job for the AI that its footballers brains we are talking about and not us massively intelligent armchair managers). So computer manager or human manager the points I made apply to both and I made no mention of anything being unfair. The point I was making, is that we the buying public all want as realistic a game as possible, SI want as realistic a game as possible, so we should be striving for that and not dismissing attempts to point out where the ME is going wrong by saying effectively, so what its only a game you can’t expect it to be like real football, when in fact that’s exactly what its makers are trying to replicate. Now I’m sure that darthrodent didn’t mean it quite like that but unfortunately that’s how it came across.

[oguzcan11]

Miles Jacobson ‏@milesSI 1m

A 6GB update Forza? Come on....

[ianscousemac]

Unfortunately we can't release any update until we have tied up a few loose ends so nothing this week. I'm as frustrated as you, but we have to be diligent.

Great quote by PaulC. This just shows the commitment from SI to get it right which they should be applauded for.

[Peter G]

Sorry, no!

It's okay we know you're making the Australian's as worse as possible

Also, Tilbakemelding?

[Dagenham_Dave]

I don't use exploits, not even the corner bug.

If only every save could be piloting Cardiff to the title in the first season with a downloaded super-tactic, eh? Life would be so much easier.

Corner bug

I don't use exploits, not even the corner bug.

Also, you clearly admitted earlier in the thread to using an ME-exploiting d/loaded tactic.

[Fabio MVP]

oh dear jimbo bimbo

[Federico]

Great news! I'll finish the season over the weekend,I am crushing everybody at the moment I was worried that there would be an update and that maybe I'd lose some games until I tweak my set up but I'll have a pre season for that I guess. Very happy

Unfortunately we can't release any update until we have tied up a few loose ends so nothing this week. I'm as frustrated as you, but we have to be diligent.

Great quote by PaulC. This just shows the commitment from SI to get it right which they should be applauded for.

This is kafkian eh. The game needs to be massively improved, yet people is happy of the delay. I assume they will turn off the auto-updates.

[Nadessico]

Miles Jacobson ‏@milesSI 1m

A 6GB update Forza? Come on....

so the issues is that all of SI's staff have called in sick to play XBOne

[milnerpoint]

6GB update?!

You could be there for a week waiting for that to download!!!!

[scott MUFC]

my keeper got booked for going out of the area with the ball twice in 3 games and has no picked up a random injury during a non-event

least i got ter-Stegen on backup

you know what is quite funny, the bug with far too many closed ranged headers missing, is nullifying my corner bug :/

[hsvruled]

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Can't wait for the Patch ... I enjoy playing it.. but sometimes ... i just wanna scream

[jimbob1000]

Also, you clearly admitted earlier in the thread to using an ME-exploiting d/loaded tactic.

Different save muggins

[ademac]

After a little QQing yesterday I woke up this morning, made a coffee and went and had a "real read" of the tactics forums, not just my usual cursory glance. I took 4 pages of notes and spent a good few hours reading different and very informative threads.

I came up with 3 brand new tactics, my beloved 4-2-4 ( which I use against weaker sides at home ), a 4-1-4-1 with an AMR and AML, ( which I use against very strong sides away from home ), and a 4-2-3-1 with an AMR/AML ( which I use for easy away games and tougher home games ). I set up team and player instructions for what I thought each formation and position would require.

It was the start of a brand new season and I made a new save and decided to play 15-20 matches and tweak as I went along and then go back to the start of the season when I was happy enough. Sad as this sounds, I'd never used the "analysis" of the game and what each player had done before. I made another 4 pages of notes and tweaked and tweaked until I understood what was going on with each player and each tactic.

In total I've spent about 10 hrs tweaking/testing and reading tactic forums, and the results have been quite remarkable. My players are doing exactly what I want from them, I feel I understand a hell of a lot better and it has been alot of fun and very rewarding.

First 10 games of the season :- 10 straight wins, away wins at Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea amongst others.

For someone who was saying he was going back to FM 13 yesterday I'm staggered I'd not bothered to look indepth before now. Don't think this game will ever be the same for now. I do have to have my fullbacks with Defend and tell them to stick to position for them to get decent ratings still, but if anyone is struggling and is frustrated and has the free time to do it, then spend a few hours reading the Tactics forum, take some notes then go in game, look at your players and et voila.....you'll get a lot more out of your side.

I was always a "Go a big team, buy the best players / newgens man" and just mindlessly click through matches instead of analysing closer where the issues were. I'll never go back to that now, but I'm a student and have the time to do it

[Ackter]

At the risk of repeating myself...

Oh my god, the game has done something realistic! TO THE BUGS FORUM!

I'm sorry, but an awful header is not a bug.

[forameuss]

According to the experts of the Forum here, everything is ok. We can play without problems. Even if there is no pleasure to do so ...

Many, many people are playing without problems. What's different with you? And you should probably use something more persuasive than a fairly normal looking save by a keeper as illustrative of your point tbh.

[gl3w]

After a little QQing yesterday I woke up this morning, made a coffee and went and had a "real read" of the tactics forums, not just my usual cursory glance. I took 4 pages of notes and spent a good few hours reading different and very informative threads.

I came up with 3 brand new tactics, my beloved 4-2-4 ( which I use against weaker sides at home ), a 4-1-4-1 with an AMR and AML, ( which I use against very strong sides away from home ), and a 4-2-3-1 with an AMR/AML ( which I use for easy away games and tougher home games ). I set up team and player instructions for what I thought each formation and position would require.

It was the start of a brand new season and I made a new save and decided to play 15-20 matches and tweak as I went along and then go back to the start of the season when I was happy enough. Sad as this sounds, I'd never used the "analysis" of the game and what each player had done before. I made another 4 pages of notes and tweaked and tweaked until I understood what was going on with each player and each tactic.

In total I've spent about 10 hrs tweaking/testing and reading tactic forums, and the results have been quite remarkable. My players are doing exactly what I want from them, I feel I understand a hell of a lot better and it has been alot of fun and very rewarding.

First 10 games of the season :- 10 straight wins, away wins at Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea amongst others.

For someone who was saying he was going back to FM 13 yesterday I'm staggered I'd not bothered to look indepth before now. Don't think this game will ever be the same for now. I do have to have my fullbacks with Defend and tell them to stick to position for them to get decent ratings still, but if anyone is struggling and is frustrated and has the free time to do it, then spend a few hours reading the Tactics forum, take some notes then go in game, look at your players and et voila.....you'll get a lot more out of your side.

I was always a "Go a big team, buy the best players / newgens man" and just mindlessly click through matches instead of analysing closer where the issues were. I'll never go back to that now, but I'm a student and have the time to do it

Any threads that you would reccomend to read? I am embarking on the same mission to re-discover the game?

[Kriss]

my keeper got booked for going out of the area with the ball twice in 3 games and has no picked up a random injury during a non-event

least i got ter-Stegen on backup

you know what is quite funny, the bug with far too many closed ranged headers missing, is nullifying my corner bug :/

You noticed that I got a 6' 4" monster up front and I'm tempted to cut him off at the knees.

[Ackter]

daylight's thread is a good example of how the tactical forum works, I'd suggest starting there.

[Fabio MVP]

At the risk of repeating myself...

Oh my god, the game has done something realistic! TO THE BUGS FORUM!

I'm sorry, but an awful header is not a bug.

Actually that one happens quite a lot.

[Ragazzo_SLB]

Many, many people are playing without problems. What's different with you? And you should probably use something more persuasive than a fairly normal looking save by a keeper as illustrative of your point tbh.

Many people play. This does not mean that they play smoothly. The defensive problems are more than obvious. The ranking of the players are equally obvious. You need to continue?

Play smoothly is a question concerning.

[Ackter]

Actually that one happens quite a lot.

Then why just one moany gif of it and not a post in the bugs forum showing proper examples?

[Fabio MVP]

Then why just one moany gif of it and not a post in the bugs forum showing proper examples?

Don't ask me. On a serious note IIRC there is a thread and it's been acknowledged.

[forameuss]

Many people play. This does not mean that they play smoothly. The defensive problems are more than obvious. The ranking of the players are equally obvious. You need to continue?

Play smoothly is a question concerning.

So now we're assuming that if they're playing, they're most likely not playing smoothly? That's some ridiculous logic. If there are defensive problems, then they can't be widespread, as I'm having very few problems playing and succeeding. What you really mean is that you don't like the game, so obviously it must be broken, and broken for everyone.

[scott MUFC]

players heading AT the keeper has happened in FM12 and FM13, dunno why top players head the ball there often, happend to me last night I was like, ay?

[Federico]

At the risk of repeating myself...

Oh my god, the game has done something realistic! TO THE BUGS FORUM!

I'm sorry, but an awful header is not a bug.

I'm sorry Ackter, this is a bug, end of story. It happens several times every single match. Headers missed from stupid distance on open net. It's impossible to deny the existence of a bug like this.

Reported on Edit no. 4 http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/371014-Reviewed-14.1.3-Goal-scored-but-not-shown-during-extended-highlights?p=9203604&viewfull=1#post9203604, not sure whether it's under review though.

[Ragazzo_SLB]

So now we're assuming that if they're playing, they're most likely not playing smoothly? That's some ridiculous logic. If there are defensive problems, then they can't be widespread, as I'm having very few problems playing and succeeding. What you really mean is that you don't like the game, so obviously it must be broken, and broken for everyone.

Not like the game? Play this game since Champioship Manager. And every year the same thing happens. In March the game is perfect ... October launch the new version and it's chaos.

The past year was because the ME was new. This year is because bla bla bla. Next year will be something else. Unfortunately it is always so. And everyone (game lovers) know that. Only some think is right to say that everything is OK ... even if not. But that's okay, do not worry.

[Ackter]

I'm sorry Ackter, this is a bug, end of story. It happens several times every single match. Headers missed from stupid distance on open net. It's impossible to deny the existence of a bug like this.

It's not something I'm seeing happen at all tbh. Not once, in fact.

[forameuss]

It's not something I'm seeing happen at all tbh. Not once, in fact.

I've seen strikers miss easy chances, but then I see that on Match of the Day too, so I'm not too worried to be honest.

Not like the game? Play this game since Champioship Manager. And every year the same thing happens. In March the game is perfect ... October launch the new version and it's chaos.

The past year was because the ME was new. This year is because bla bla bla. Next year will be something else. Unfortunately it is always so. And everyone (game lovers) know that. Only some think is right to say that everything is OK ... even if not. But that's okay, do not worry.

So you do like the game, but then complain that every single year it is "chaos". What does that say? Plus, very few people have maintained that "everything is OK". If you can point out more than five, then you'll be lucky.

[Federico]

It's not something I'm seeing happen at all tbh. Not once, in fact.

That's because you mods are playing the patched version already

[Ackter]

Nope. I'm playing the same version as everyone else.

[Dagenham_Dave]

In real life, going 2-0 up normally ends in a victory.

In FM14, going 2-0 up is a surefire way NOT to win the game you're playing.

I feel far more confident when my team is 1-0 up than 2-0. And as if by magic, the game I'm playing just now, I'm 2-0 up inside 15mins, and I'm 3-2 down at half time.

And yes, I know it's selective memory, but it does seem to happen an awful lot.

[ademac]

Any threads that you would reccomend to read? I am embarking on the same mission to re-discover the game?

I read Daylights 4-1-1-3-1, Mr U Roslers Getting your fullbacks overlapping in 442, and Ackters Catanaccio threads. The Catanaccio one is a little heavy but it kinda "set" my mind into "understand mode".