Klyemann Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Tactics I'm primary using a 4-1-2-2-1 that brought me much success in FM 13. My alternative gameplan is a counter-attacking narrow 4-2-3-1. Defensive nightmare As seen in the following screenshot I concede an enormous amount of goals (the matches I managed are highlighted in the red box): I had the same problems in my previous club (again, my matches are highlighted): The problem The main reason for conceding so many goals are poor performances from my full-backs. As you can see, most of my opponents assists come from the wings: My FB-s are constantly underperforming, at least one of them having a rating lower thatn 5.5 almost every match. Watching a match I see that FBs are not getting overloaded by wingers + opponents backs. They are just unable to contain the wingers, who look like they are dribbling past my FBs with ease (opponents wingers also have a high number of runs against me). I had the same problem in both clubs, and though my backs are by no means class players I feel they should perform a lot better defensively. I would be grateful for any advice on how to combat the opponents wingers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsr1982 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm seeing similar behaviour from my team playing a similar (if not the same) system, for what it's worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 I've been playing all day, and I cant seem to figure out what's going on with the full backs. Any ideas? Anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmn27 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Its a well known bug that SI are looking into and hope to fix in the 'next few weeks' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Its a well known bug that SI are looking into and hope to fix in the 'next few weeks' Oh, thank god... I was loosing my mind here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmn27 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The full game feedback thread in the general discussion forum has plenty of "feedback" about it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 There are issues with full back engagement and both of your formations actually exacerbate it. The narrow 4-2-3-1 exposes them and their attacking Duty will mean that they will be caught out of position a fair amount. The 4-1-2-2-1 will suffer similar issues as whilst you have wide men in the AM line, unless they are contributing defensively, you again have exposed full backs. SI have these issues well in hand, and you can expect to see progress in the coming weeks. Until any updates are released, consider giving your full backs a helping hand by getting your wide midfielders to have the first bite at any threat the AI pose out wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str0aK Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 So basically I can't play the formations I want to play (same as the OP) until SI fix the game? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 So basically I can't play the formations I want to play (same as the OP) until SI fix the game? No, you can play the formations you want but can take steps to making them more solid out wide. Or, you can play as you want knowing that any full back issues affect the AI in exactly the same way as they affect you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Or, you can play as you want knowing that any full back issues affect the AI in exactly the same way as they affect you. Yup, and that way I managed to pull a 5-5 draw against Benfica... apparently Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 No, you can play the formations you want but can take steps to making them more solid out wide.Or, you can play as you want knowing that any full back issues affect the AI in exactly the same way as they affect you. To be fair though, I play a 4-4-2 flat, and oh my word, its difficult to deal with. I mean I concede on average 0.5 a game, but since the last update it's 1-2 a game. Haven't had a clean sheet at all(!) It's entertaining though, but yeah I'll wait for the patch personally as I hate seeing my statistics fudged... I like my 0.5... *glares* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 To be fair though, I play a 4-4-2 flat, and oh my word, its difficult to deal with. I mean I concede on average 0.5 a game, but since the last update it's 1-2 a game. Haven't had a clean sheet at all(!)It's entertaining though, but yeah I'll wait for the patch personally as I hate seeing my statistics fudged... I like my 0.5... *glares* The last full update, I assume? The update to the "full game" had no ME components updated. I'm running two saves at the moment - Salisbury in the Skrill Premier and Man U in the Premier League. My Man U side has conceded 8 goals in 26 games 4 conceded in 5 for Salisbury though, but we are rubbish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The last full update, I assume?The update to the "full game" had no ME components updated. I'm running two saves at the moment - Salisbury in the Skrill Premier and Man U in the Premier League. My Man U side has conceded 8 goals in 26 games 4 conceded in 5 for Salisbury though, but we are rubbish No, no the ME fixes before that, the one that kicked off the whole FB thing. I started my Workington file in the Beta. The FB thing just makes it a chore, an entertaining one though, 5-5? 4-3's? Dear me, it's enough to give me a heart attack. I'll wait for the fixes, give my heart some time to settle down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oenone87 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Can anyone suggest a formation that isn't truly affected by this bug? I've been having SO MANY issues with Schalke because of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSevensM75 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Can anyone suggest a formation that isn't truly affected by this bug? I've been having SO MANY issues with Schalke because of this. I've personally had a lot of success with 4-4-1-1. Two wingers, a BWM on defend and a box to box midfielder. Then play an AP in the 10 role and I have been playing an AF up top, but mainly because I don't have a striker who is good enough to be a CF. Since the main release I have found that I can get 4-2-3-1 to work on occasions but you have to play with full backs on automatic (I usually prefer to play with wing backs overlapping the inside forwards, big no no at the moment) and the central two I play with is a BWM on defend and a DLP on defend. That seems to give my defence enough cover. Also one of the two wide men needs to be an out and out winger. I always play short passing but here is the other key. Play rigid. Everytime I try and switch to fluid it all goes wrong. If I play rigid and then give individual instructions to players I want to roam etc. that seems to work better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str0aK Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Nah I can't play this. First game of the season drew 3-3. My full backs had ratings of 4.9 and 5.1 and were absolutely pathetic. I'll wait until they fix this ****. As it is this is a complete waste of time and money. Ruins the game. No, you can play the formations you want but can take steps to making them more solid out wide.Or, you can play as you want knowing that any full back issues affect the AI in exactly the same way as they affect you. Yeah exactly, so I can't play the way I want to play. The way I want to play doesn't include making my systems more solid out wide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peleJunior Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Nah I can't play this. First game of the season drew 3-3. My full backs had ratings of 4.9 and 5.1 and were absolutely pathetic. I'll wait until they fix this ****. As it is this is a complete waste of time and money. Ruins the game.Yeah exactly, so I can't play the way I want to play. The way I want to play doesn't include making my systems more solid out wide. Mate be realistic, if you were managing a team who were not solid out wide, don't you think a half decent opposition manager would pick up on this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdirtyjames Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 This is probably a stupid question... ...but do you have your full-backs closing down more and your defenders marking tight? I didn't at the start, and was wondering why I was leaking goals from opp wing-play so easily. TacticsI'm primary using a 4-1-2-2-1 that brought me much success in FM 13. My alternative gameplan is a counter-attacking narrow 4-2-3-1. Defensive nightmare As seen in the following screenshot I concede an enormous amount of goals (the matches I managed are highlighted in the red box): I had the same problems in my previous club (again, my matches are highlighted): The problem The main reason for conceding so many goals are poor performances from my full-backs. As you can see, most of my opponents assists come from the wings: My FB-s are constantly underperforming, at least one of them having a rating lower thatn 5.5 almost every match. Watching a match I see that FBs are not getting overloaded by wingers + opponents backs. They are just unable to contain the wingers, who look like they are dribbling past my FBs with ease (opponents wingers also have a high number of runs against me). I had the same problem in both clubs, and though my backs are by no means class players I feel they should perform a lot better defensively. I would be grateful for any advice on how to combat the opponents wingers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joor Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Best tip I can give is to force your opponents to shoot from distance, by dropping your defense line to very deep. Also make your fullbacks tackle harder - they will infact try to get the ball much more frequently. I did this with Milan and the defence is so much stronger. My tactic; http://i.imgur.com/z6N5eYE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/i8FABMJ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sx8l3Az.jpg Looks at those pictures - both matches against Fiorentina and Sampdoria won 2-0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 This is probably a stupid question......but do you have your full-backs closing down more and your defenders marking tight? I didn't at the start, and was wondering why I was leaking goals from opp wing-play so easily. Nope, no special individual instructions. I haven't got the hang of the new system yet. So did it help when you set full-backs to close down more? I'm afraid they would close down too early, being beaten anyway and leaving huge open space in the back. Best tip I can give is to force your opponents to shoot from distance, by dropping your defense line to very deep. Also make your fullbacks tackle harder - they will infact try to get the ball much more frequently. I did this with Milan and the defence is so much stronger.My tactic; http://i.imgur.com/z6N5eYE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/i8FABMJ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sx8l3Az.jpg Looks at those pictures - both matches against Fiorentina and Sampdoria won 2-0 So, if I understand you correctly, you set individual instructions to tackle harder on your FBs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 i have mine set to close down more and play wider. and they seem much better. i may try tackle harder if they drop back to being pants again... they played well against liverpool in The cup, and i was expecting a roasting to be fair.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Str0aK Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Mate be realistic, if you were managing a team who were not solid out wide, don't you think a half decent opposition manager would pick up on this? You misunderstand me dude. I'm fully aware that defending out wide is my team's weakness but my full backs are good enough to deal with the threat more often than not. With this bug they can't do that. Plus my team revolves around keeping the ball and its creativity through the middle. Dominating possession limits how regularly I get punished on the wings. With the bug that changes the entire landscape. Teams can have 30% possession against me but still profit because of a problem with the ME. I'm not saying "oh I intend to set up a team that can't defend on the flanks but I should still win" I'm just saying that the intended weakness and strengths of my team are exploited and negated quite a bit due to this bug. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnarchyAnt Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I was having some problems with fullbacks as well. Luckily I would rather play 3 in the back so it doesn't affect me anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdirtyjames Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Nope, no special individual instructions. I haven't got the hang of the new system yet. So did it help when you set full-backs to close down more? I'm afraid they would close down too early, being beaten anyway and leaving huge open space in the back. No worries - took me a while too. I conceded 7 goals in my first 2 games, all from the wings. Went into tactics changed both full-backs to close down more, and both center backs to mark tightly, and I tightened up immediately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 Well, I have given up. I tried to set my full backs to close down more, tried to set to tackle harder, tried to make my MC-s play defensively to help close down the wings... I even tried to drop deeper, play more defensively, and all that did is stifle my attack and I still conceded a ton. I also ended up experimenting with 3-5-2 and 3-2-3-2. No matter what I do, I always get destroyed on the wings. It just seems impossible to make a strong defensive tactics (in a new season I concede an average of cca. 2.8 goals a match - by far the worst defense in the league). So I guess I'll just wait for a patch, and hope for the best. P.S.: Does anyone know how to check my current game version? I heard there was a patch, but I've never noticed any installation when I start the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake Appeal Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 The game version is in the bottom right when you first start up the game. You haven't noticed any installation because Steam does it automatically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tieio Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 These summarize my feelings quite well. It just doesn't work and having to use completely different tactics to attempt to thwart a game bug is awful. This is not a lack of tactical ability, this is a lack of desire to play one set way in order to beat an in-game bug. You misunderstand me dude. I'm fully aware that defending out wide is my team's weakness but my full backs are good enough to deal with the threat more often than not. With this bug they can't do that. Plus my team revolves around keeping the ball and its creativity through the middle. Dominating possession limits how regularly I get punished on the wings. With the bug that changes the entire landscape. Teams can have 30% possession against me but still profit because of a problem with the ME. I'm not saying "oh I intend to set up a team that can't defend on the flanks but I should still win" I'm just saying that the intended weakness and strengths of my team are exploited and negated quite a bit due to this bug. Well, I have given up.I tried to set my full backs to close down more, tried to set to tackle harder, tried to make my MC-s play defensively to help close down the wings... I even tried to drop deeper, play more defensively, and all that did is stifle my attack and I still conceded a ton. I also ended up experimenting with 3-5-2 and 3-2-3-2. No matter what I do, I always get destroyed on the wings. It just seems impossible to make a strong defensive tactics (in a new season I concede an average of cca. 2.8 goals a match - by far the worst defense in the league). So I guess I'll just wait for a patch, and hope for the best. P.S.: Does anyone know how to check my current game version? I heard there was a patch, but I've never noticed any installation when I start the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingarrow Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 .. makes FM 2014 just awful to play at the moment. I thought this was supposed to be fixed during BETA. Just lost 6-5 to Burnley with Derby after having a 4-0 lead until it was 30 mins left. Then lost 5-3 to Wigan, of course.. I had a 3-1 lead, 10 minutes left - voilà. Stupid, just stupid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 .. makes FM 2014 just awful to play at the moment. I thought this was supposed to be fixed during BETA.Just lost 6-5 to Burnley with Derby after having a 4-0 lead until it was 30 mins left. Then lost 5-3 to Wigan, of course.. I had a 3-1 lead, 10 minutes left - voilà. Stupid, just stupid Losing a 4-0 lead with half an hour to go, bugs or not, implies some degree of tactical shortcoming. Perhaps Burnley completely changed plan in a bid to salvage something from the game, and you failed to react, or you went to shut up shop and invited a pressure which brought the wide defensive bugs to the fore? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingarrow Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Losing a 4-0 lead with half an hour to go, bugs or not, implies some degree of tactical shortcoming.Perhaps Burnley completely changed plan in a bid to salvage something from the game, and you failed to react, or you went to shut up shop and invited a pressure which brought the wide defensive bugs to the fore? I am fully aware of the "realism"-factor that falls into place here, teams changing tactics throughout the game etc to counter my tactics. But the goals of the opposite team was flukes involving my fullbacks or central defenders doing major mistakes. Same with Wigan and a big amount of other matches too. Other thing I have noticed the past patches is the amount of chances for both teams, 24 shots in total, 17 at goal - for both teams during a match? That is just to high, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Losing a 4-0 lead with half an hour to go, bugs or not, implies some degree of tactical shortcoming.Perhaps Burnley completely changed plan in a bid to salvage something from the game, and you failed to react, or you went to shut up shop and invited a pressure which brought the wide defensive bugs to the fore? I've had quite a few of my matches turned around like that, and while watching the games I can see that the change opponents make to overturn the game is basically: "exploit the flanks" and "run at defense". Once they start playing like that, It's goal galore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I've had quite a few of my matches turned around like that, and while watching the games I can see that the change opponents make to overturn the game is basically: "exploit the flanks" and "run at defense". Once they start playing like that, It's goal galore. If it is that clear, have you tried to dish out the same? Unlike some suggestions I've seen in General Discussion, the AI and us have to contend with exactly the same ME, so whatever the AI can do to you, you can do to the AI. There are two ways to deal with an immature ME. You stick you your guns and play how you want, but accept that deficiencies in the ME will induce some hugely frustrating moments. Or, you change plan entirely. I can understand why people might want to steadfastly not do this, but it has saved me a load of avoidable angst. In the end, this shouldn't need to be a discussion point in a week or two. I'm sure I've annoyed plenty of people by saying this, but I'll say it again - this stuff will get fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingarrow Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 If it is that clear, have you tried to dish out the same?Unlike some suggestions I've seen in General Discussion, the AI and us have to contend with exactly the same ME, so whatever the AI can do to you, you can do to the AI. There are two ways to deal with an immature ME. You stick you your guns and play how you want, but accept that deficiencies in the ME will induce some hugely frustrating moments. Or, you change plan entirely. I can understand why people might want to steadfastly not do this, but it has saved me a load of avoidable angst. In the end, this shouldn't need to be a discussion point in a week or two. I'm sure I've annoyed plenty of people by saying this, but I'll say it again - this stuff will get fixed. I can`t wait, beside this the game is just amazing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanstormm Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Having the same problem. Playing as Celtic and the players in my defence are quite good but I've barely kept a clean sheet in my second season. The full backs seem to play very poor, I've tried different roles but nothing changes. They don't seem to stop crosses even though i've got them to close down. I've tried pushing up and sitting deep and nothing really changes. I'm playing a 4-4-2. The wingers are at AML and AMR which may leave the full backs exposed but it shouldn't result in the amount of goals I'm conceding. Finding it very hard to actually get the players to do what I want in this new tactic system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 If it is that clear, have you tried to dish out the same?Unlike some suggestions I've seen in General Discussion, the AI and us have to contend with exactly the same ME, so whatever the AI can do to you, you can do to the AI. Yeah, I tried that... but playing Rio Ave and drawing 5-5 with Benfica is not exactly the result I enjoy in whats supposed to be a realistic simulation. There are issues with ME that are being acknowledged and worked on, as I understand, so there is no reason for people to go around saying: "It's your fault, not ME. You don't know how to play the game. Your tactic is stupid and you are stupid." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrisk85 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Marcelo has the highest average rating for me in 25(1) matches, 7,81. On the other hand Carvajal (RB) has 7,05 from 24(2). Cristiano (just to show how good Marcelo is doing, compartively) has some serious consistency issues with 7,33 from 28(3) matches and 19 goals, still better than Benzema. Point being is Marcelo doing incredibly well for me, maybe because I employ him as a WB and not a FB? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills2000 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I'm sure I've annoyed plenty of people by saying this, but I'll say it again - this stuff will get fixed. Sure it will.... just like the network game issue that affected people in FM13 that seemed to be brushed under the carpet! However, like a moron I went out and paid good money AGAIN for the latest version... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me... Think this will be the last FM I pay for! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmills2000 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 ... and out of interest RTHerringbone, could you enlighten us as to who exactly is working on this and when they plan on gracing their paying public with their presence to explain what and when? (Just please don't tell me it's Stuart Warren, because after last year I wouldn't trust him to pick his nose!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyemann Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 However, like a moron I went out and paid good money AGAIN for the latest version... Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me... Think this will be the last FM I pay for! Oh come on, don't overreact! They usualy polish out the bugs with patches, though I agree it's a shame that every year you have to wait until around new year for the game to become enjoyable. However, to say that you'll never buy this awesome game again is a bit harsh. Marcelo has the highest average rating for me in 25(1) matches, 7,81. On the other hand Carvajal (RB) has 7,05 from 24(2).Cristiano (just to show how good Marcelo is doing, compartively) has some serious consistency issues with 7,33 from 28(3) matches and 19 goals, still better than Benzema. Point being is Marcelo doing incredibly well for me, maybe because I employ him as a WB and not a FB? It's not about the ratings... the problem is, that you are unable to contain opponents wingers, and most of the time that is FBs job - hence low ratings. If you don't have problems getting beaten on the wings, can you share your tactics? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Odom Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I can understand people get frustrated, but this is the best FM I've played in years. It takes some getting used to and there are indeed some bugs, but I refuse to letting those ruin the best FM yet for me. We'll see in a couple of weeks wether it's fixed or not. If not, then we have the right to complain. For now, I will use the advice I got here to counter the frustration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingarrow Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Finally managed to create a tactic that actually works Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyat Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Does anyone have any ideas on when the new update will be released to fix some of theses issues? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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