Best Position or Instruction for Messi

[the SLC]

Thanks bud, missing it at the first point was looking for SS.. Thanks a lot

no probs. let me know how you get on as im struggling with my united side

[ak71]

I don't get it. I've adopted the same tactics as you have shown Tokyoblade. 2 goals in 5 games. Both of which he scored in 1 game. Messi just doesn't play consistently. He shoots from long range instead of taking on the defender.

Mate,

TokyoBlade tactics are brilliant. It's almost like watching a real life Barca playing. I'm playing Spurs which i address as Tottelona because by adapting TokyoBlade's tactic, they really play like Barca. You can see Messi dribbling, doing through ball and such.

In order for you to be successful, i believe that you really need to adopt his tactics, instructions for team and players and recommended players' PPM. Everything is available in text and graphics. You really need to surf and sift through this page. I can tell you that it's really worth it.

Once again, it's a brilliant tactics for Barca style football. Kudos to TokyoBlade.

[TokyoBlade]

brilliant post!! thank you very much.

I understand what you mean about januzaj. im hoping to train him up as im a big fan of his. currently got him training to come deep. then will look to increase his treq stats. along with more PPMs.

That's a definitely a good start Being such a young player, it should be easy to adapt his game to your style. Put him on some high finishing training also and he should be a good trequartista in a few years.

don't know why I put rooney on the right IF position. maybe lack of concentration or maybe I thought he would do a better job than one of the youth players but I noticed you used jesse lingard there? is it best to have the correct player in there natural position than maybe some one who is a better player but not nessercarily in the right position? I would not have thought jesse was good enough for 1st team games let alone against city!!

Ideally, I wouldn't have used him, but I didn't really have other options. I always prefer to play someone who is at least "accomplished" in a position, because players in uncomfortable positions don't perform as well as they usually would. Of course, you are more than welcome to pick someone who isn't as comfortable in that position if necessary and if you feel it's the better option. It's just a personal preference.

was going to play ganso as IFr but would he be a better APa?

Ganso is definitely best in the MCL (AP/A) position. He doesn't have the speed to rush forward in the inside forward role.

Ashley young has been nothing short of amazing for me. he gets a lot of stick in the Man u thread with a lot of people selling him but I thought I would give him a fair trial. which he has passed with flying colours

if my plans for januzaj fail whom what would I be looking for in a decent TREQ? RVP wont last much longer. his stats will decline soon so was planning on cashing in on him at the end of the season. I came close to buying Giuseppe rossi but bottled it at the last minute.

Yeah, Ashley Young was playing truly amazingly in your save! Highest average rating in the league by far. Great job getting the best out of him

I'd say the most important attributes for the trequartista are finishing, passing, creativity, flair, off the ball and agility. Of course, the player will also need good composure, decisions and teamwork on top of that to be better suited for the team's style. Also, PPMs like "comes deep to get ball". I also personally like the "places shots" PPM for my trequartistas, but this isn't essential. Giuseppe Rossi is a top class trequartista with "comes deep to get ball" PPM, so it could be worth getting him. If you want someone younger, so you can have him as your main ST for many years down the line, you should do everything you can to sign "Isco" from Real Madrid, because he is the best young trequartista in the game (that I know of, at least). You will need to retrain him to the ST position, but until he's at least "competent" in that position you could play him AM and instruct him to get further forward. I'm not sure if Real Madrid will be willing to sell him though because he's both important to them and a new signing, but it's definitely worth trying at least, because he will be perfect for this role for many, many years! (he also has fantastic composure, decisions and teamwork!) The only downside with him is he has relatively low finishing, but he's still young so put him on some high finishing training and he should be top class within a few years!

Other players you could consider looking at (though none of them are on Isco's level):

- Carlos Vela (doesn't have great teamwork, but sometimes you have to compromise!)

- Marek Hamsik (will need retraining for the ST position, but he has fantastic attributes for the role)

- Henrikh Mkhitaryan (has decent trequartista attributes and "comes deep to get ball", though he's only "competent" in the ST position at the start)

- Erik Lamela (his weakness is his teamwork, which is a little low)

- Rafinha (the Barcelona player on loan at Celta. He already has good quality trequartista attributes and still has a lot of improving to do!)

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to, but you could try signing Juan Mata from Chelsea because he has truly incredible trequartista attributes. I say I'm sure you won't be able to because for one I doubt Chelsea will want to sell him and also because Chelsea won't likely want to sell to a rival club.

Personally, I'd look at signing Isco as my first priority and then consider Rafinha if Real Madrid refuse to sell.

really grateful for all your help it will certainly help in my quest to play the game and more importantly, win!!!!

you prob wont believe me but I have been playing this game since the very beginning.... the very 1st champ manager way back when. I think it amounts to something like 15 years on this game and im still crap at it!!!!!

once again I thank you. you simplified it for me which some posters do not.they just assume we all understand what there are on about.

live the dream!!!!

cannot wait for the final patch to start a long term save with this tactic

No problem. Happy to help people enjoy the game as much as I am

My first CM game was Championship Manager 97/98. I was very bad at these games early on, lol. It wasn't until around CM 03/04 when I started learning properly. I vividly remember playing a Real Madrid save on 03/04 and doing absolutely terrible; I would have got them relegated if I hadn't got sacked first The fact I failed miserably even with a top quality team like Real Madrid in the 03/04 season shows how bad I was, haha.

oh before I forget what do you make of koo ja-cheol. he only cost 1.7m so I thought he was worth a gamble.

If you are able to train him with the "dictates tempo" PPM and get rid of the "shoots from distance" PPM, I'd say you've got yourself a decent backup DLP He does have a great long shot ability though, but I'd say it's better he didn't blast them in whenever he gets near the area. If you're not able to get rid of that PPM, he'll still be a decent backup for you, but you'll just have to get used to seeing him blast them from distance despite better options available. I'm sure he'll score the occasional screamer though!

Mate,

TokyoBlade tactics are brilliant. It's almost like watching a real life Barca playing. I'm playing Spurs which i address as Tottelona because by adapting TokyoBlade's tactic, they really play like Barca. You can see Messi dribbling, doing through ball and such.

In order for you to be successful, i believe that you really need to adopt his tactics, instructions for team and players and recommended players' PPM. Everything is available in text and graphics. You really need to surf and sift through this page. I can tell you that it's really worth it.

Once again, it's a brilliant tactics for Barca style football. Kudos to TokyoBlade.

Thanks. Glad to hear it's working out for you!

I don't get it. I've adopted the same tactics as you have shown Tokyoblade. 2 goals in 5 games. Both of which he scored in 1 game. Messi just doesn't play consistently. He shoots from long range instead of taking on the defender.

Messi just gets so isolated. He barely gets the ball and makes as few as 3/4 shots a match.

Are you sure you have everyone else set up correctly? It sounds like Messi doesn't have any options going forward, which shouldn't happen with the IFs pushing forward into the area and the AP/A pushing up from deep to support. You have the right individual instruction for the players? Selecting players suited to the roles? (etc.) Is the team performing well, despite Messi not scoring? Also, what formations are your opponents using? If they use 2 DMs, Messi won't be as much of a goalscoring threat, but can still open space for team mates with his movement. It could also be that Messi is just having a brief dip in form - It happened to me in my save where Messi scored 82 goals (On 2 or 3 occasions during the season, Messi wasn't scoring much - about a goal every other game, if that - which lasted for several games, but then he went back to his insane goalscoring spree).

If you're sure you have everything set up correctly, you could send me a PKM file from a match where Messi doesn't get any chances or keeps shooting from distance and I can take a look at what's going wrong.

On a side note, I realise I haven't mentioned my training schedule in any earlier posts. For tactics like these, I always set my general training to Team Cohesion and Match Training to Teamwork. The reason for this is because it's important for this style to have a great team blend. Training in team cohesion will improve player relationships and help build morale. In other words, it makes them play as a true unit rather than a group of individual players. Just look at Barcelona in real life to see this - They have arguably the best team cohesion in the world, which results in a great team performance.

Take a look at this:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/706/o86b.png

"Jorge Pautasso believes our current players would be willing to die for each other."

Now that is what I call true team unity! The effect of this supreme team blend is obvious when employing tactics that require a team performance, and the possession based system definitely needs team unity to be most effective - after all, how can you expect a great team performance using tactics requiring great teamwork when the team isn't a true unit, but rather a group of individual players? This is why I never let the assistant handle training - he doesn't know what he's doing

Training in this way does mean slightly less time is spent on training attributes, but in my experience that has never been a problem (especially when you set individual training for each player).

So those of you using this system, I strongly recommend using this training setup for the best results. It might take time for the team to become a unit, but when it happens they'll work great together

[ak71]

On a side note, I realise I haven't mentioned my training schedule in any earlier posts. For tactics like these, I always set my general training to Team Cohesion and Match Training to Teamwork. The reason for this is because it's important for this style to have a great team blend. Training in team cohesion will improve player relationships and help build morale. In other words, it makes them play as a true unit rather than a group of individual players. Just look at Barcelona in real life to see this - They have arguably the best team cohesion in the world, which results in a great team performance.

Hi TokyoBlade,

When do you actually assigned their training as such; is it during pre-season, a week before season starts or after season has started..?

Thanks.

[angelo994]

Yeah I set up everything exactly like you showed. Same instructions/positions etc.

I'll get some screenshots to show you.

Formation - http://i.imgur.com/wcvHxAU.jpg

Team Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/AcObYxa.jpg

Xavi Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/Kfea7x2.jpg

Iniesta Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/KKrV2WJ.jpg

Neymar Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/8IzyAbU.jpg

Pedro Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/bfUZpKN.jpg

Messi Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/CX7wLYv.jpg

Messi form ( He was scored decent amount. Few in the Liga though and is really inconsistent) - http://i.imgur.com/QWjaQpp.jpg

Look at the number of shots he gets off. 1 on target against Sevilla for example! http://i.imgur.com/jhHbQZR.jpg

His movement is good though - http://i.imgur.com/xtGvhG3.jpg

[TokyoBlade]

Hi TokyoBlade,

When do you actually assigned their training as such; is it during pre-season, a week before season starts or after season has started..?

Thanks.

I set it as soon as I start the game and I don't change it There shouldn't be any problems changing it to Team Cohesion / Teamwork mid-season if you haven't got it set like that, so you don't have to wait until the pre-season to do that. Though during pre-season you might want to move the match training slider up to max and switch to tactics only so the team are ready for the new season, then when they are fluid move back to teamwork.

Yeah I set up everything exactly like you showed. Same instructions/positions etc.

I'll get some screenshots to show you.

Formation - http://i.imgur.com/wcvHxAU.jpg

Team Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/AcObYxa.jpg

Xavi Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/Kfea7x2.jpg

Iniesta Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/KKrV2WJ.jpg

Neymar Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/8IzyAbU.jpg

Pedro Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/bfUZpKN.jpg

Messi Specific Instructions - http://i.imgur.com/CX7wLYv.jpg

Messi form ( He was scored decent amount. Few in the Liga though and is really inconsistent) - http://i.imgur.com/QWjaQpp.jpg

Look at the number of shots he gets off. 1 on target against Sevilla for example! http://i.imgur.com/jhHbQZR.jpg

His movement is good though - http://i.imgur.com/xtGvhG3.jpg

Interesting. Looks like he's performing well everywhere but the league!

Although he only had 2 chances at goal, they were both good chances (in the area, in good positions) so that's definitely promising. Without seeing the match myself I can't tell you why he wasn't getting more opportunities. If you could save the match pkm for that Sevilla game and send it to me, I'll have a look.

Also, do you handle team talks or leave it to the assistant? Because correct individual team talks for Messi will get him more motivated and result in better performances.

Motivation and Team Talks are incredibly important for getting individual players to perform (I usually only go into this level of detail with individual talks with my star players).

What I do with individual teamtalks for Messi is this:

Pre-Match

#1 - Do the whole team talk and then see how Messi reacts. If it's one of those generic ones like "Listening Keenly" or "Nodded in agreement" or something then I give the individual team talk to him of "Passionate - I have Faith", which for a lot of the time gives the reaction of "motivated" (it occurs even more often when Messi likes you - get yourself on his favourite persons list ASAP ).

#2 - If he already has "motivated" or "fired-up" as a reaction then I do nothing else.

Half-Time

#1 - If he either has a goal or a 7.5-8.4 rating (or both) then I use the half time individual talk of "Passionate - I have faith" (or "I think there's more to come from you!" or whatever it says), which often boosts Messi's motivation even more (again, more likely to happen if he likes you).

#2 - If he has a rating of 8.5 or more, I use "passionate - delighted with his performance".

#3 - If he has a rating of about 6.4/6.5 or lower, I use "assertive - disappointed with performance"

Post-Match

#1 - If he has a rating of 8.5 or more, "Passionate - Delighted with performance"

#2 - If he has a rating of less than 8.5, I don't usually say anything individually, unless he has a man of the match performance despite the lower rating, in which case I do the same as in #1

#3 - If he has a rating of less than around 6.4/6.5 - "Assertive - Disappointed with performance". Don't let a low rating go by thinking "oh, it was just a one off bad game" because it's important to keep him as motivated as you can. Messi can handle being criticised for bad performances, just let him know you're not happy On the rare occasions he gets a low rating like this for me, 100% of the time he always reacts with either "motivated" or "fired-up" when I tell him I'm disappointed. His lowest rating for me in my Barcelona season was 5.80, if I remember correctly.

^ all this is important for getting him to perform consistently like I manage in my save.

In addition to all this, you could also privately chat with the player and praise him for good performances and criticise him for poor ones if you want. Personally, I never bother with private chat (In my Barcelona save on FM13, I'm up to 2030 and I've never once used the private chat for anything but talking to unhappy players who want to discuss something with me), but if you like the "hands-on" approach then I don't see any harm in doing this. I find that it's simple enough getting consistent performances from him using just team talks though.

Remember, if you want Messi to have season stats similar to this - http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/9286/s4q4.png - then you need to:

- Keep him as motivated as possible at all times (team talks. and private chats, if you want)

- Keep him fit (rest him for 2 or 3 days between matches if his condition starts dropping. this way you can play him in pretty much every game of the season. I found myself resting him for 2/3 days often throughout the season, to keep him fit for the next game)

- Make sure he has sufficient support. This support should come primarily from the IFs. Some reasons they may not be supporting him enough are because they keep choosing to shoot rather than pick him out with a pass/cross (if this is the case, use the "shoots less often" instructions for them as I mentioned before), or maybe they keep losing possession on the flanks so they can't get a ball into him (if this happens to you, you could try instructing them to "dribble less", encouraging them to find passes to teammates rather than try to dribble through the defence. alternatively, you could try instructing them to cross the ball from deep, encouraging them to cross into Messi from deeper positions rather than try to beat a defender before getting a pass/cross in). If, during a game, all those instruction changes still isn't getting Messi enough support, try changing the IFs from Attack to Support, removing the "gets forward" instructions and giving them "sit narrower" instructions in an attempt to get play through to Messi more centrally rather than through crosses/passes in the opponent's area. Alternatively, you could tell your wing backs to "cross more often" and "cross from deep" to try and get crosses into Messi more often, since the IFs aren't managing it! If that still isn't helping, keep the IFs as Attack with the get forward instruction, and bring Messi down to the AM position (still in Trequartista role), to try and get him more involved with play, acting more as a playmaker for the IFs than being on the receiving end of their passes/crosses (he probably won't be scoring many this way, but he could get some assists and at least he'll be more involved with play). I never had to do any of this myself, because both Messi and the team as a whole played great all season (Messi always had plenty of scoring opportunities), but if the default setup isn't working for you, try some of the tactical alterations I have mentioned in the hope that Messi gets more support. Of course, to know which changes to make requires watching the game (I don't know what viewing mode you use, but "only commentary" is not going to help you identify why Messi isn't getting support. If you are using "only commentary", switch over to either 2D or 3D temporarily when you notice Messi isn't getting any chances to find out what's wrong. If you're already using 2D/3D, then keep an eye on what's happening on the pitch when your team get forward.

- Make sure the team play as a unit. I mentioned in an earlier post about team unity. Make sure your whole squad have a good blend, because with good team blend/unity comes good team performances. (use Team Cohesion and Teamwork training)

Even with all this taken into account, don't immediately expect 70+ goals per season from him, because it takes time and practice (and trial and error) to get the hang of getting players/teams to perform to a high standard all the time (and guarding against complacency!). The reason I can get results like this is because I've done plenty of trial+error over the years, so I know exactly what I need to do to get consistent performances.

So, use all the advice I have given in this thread as a starting point and start getting used to how certain things (like how Messi receives support in a game, team talk reactions, etc) work and build from there. In time, doing all this will be second nature and you won't even have to think about it. Took me a while to get used to getting the most out of players, so don't panic if what you do isn't working - learn from experience. In my FM13 games, the world team of the year almost always consists entirely of my players (e.g - http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8062/bvvl.png) because of consistently great performances. It's definitely possible for anyone to achieve, but it takes a lot of effort to get the hang of it.

But yeah, if you want me to take a look at a game or two where Messi doesn't get many opportunities, send me a PKM or two so I can see why he's not getting any support.

[angelo994]

Thanks for all this help man! Super appreciate it. I'll send you the pkm of the sevilla match and a game against valencia where he didnt get many chances. If you could check them out I'd be infinitely thankful!

EDIT: Sorry noob question, but how do I actually send you the files? Do you have an email address or is there some way I can upload it via a PM ?

[angelo994]

I uploaded them here. Dunno if you want to check them out or what.

Sevilla game - http://www56.zippyshare.com/v/3757356/file.html

Valencia game - http://www56.zippyshare.com/v/31216746/file.html

[the SLC]

Thanks for all this help man! Super appreciate it. I'll send you the pkm of the sevilla match and a game against valencia where he didnt get many chances. If you could check them out I'd be infinitely thankful!

EDIT: Sorry noob question, but how do I actually send you the files? Do you have an email address or is there some way I can upload it via a PM ?

I asked the same question a few posts up. the answer is there too

[the SLC]

for your training to have the slider all the way to the left/right throughout the season or have it half way?

[yonko]

TokyoBlade, what kind of instructions do you use for your set-pieces - attacking/defending corners, free kicks and throw-ins? Also, what kind of individual training do you use for some of your key players, specifically Messi?

In terms of team training, I assume that during pre-season you use Team Cohesion with High Intensity for General Training and Tactics training for Match Prep at 50%. Then once the team has become fluid and familiar with the tactic, you switch to Teamwork for Match Prep. Do you then lower the intensity of the Team Cohesion and do you lower the % of the Match Prep training?

BTW, good advice on team talks and motivation.

[TokyoBlade]

Thanks for all this help man! Super appreciate it. I'll send you the pkm of the sevilla match and a game against valencia where he didnt get many chances. If you could check them out I'd be infinitely thankful!

EDIT: Sorry noob question, but how do I actually send you the files? Do you have an email address or is there some way I can upload it via a PM ?

Thanks for sending them. Messi definitely wasn't getting any support! So many times I noticed the IFs (especially Neymar) lose possession through dribbling and shooting from distance despite better options. I think in games where you notice Messi isn't getting any chances, you should try instructing the IFs to "dribble less" and "shoot less often" in an attempt to play through the defence via passing rather than dribbling. You shouldn't need to do this for every game, but sometimes the opponent defenders refuse to let any balls come in (like in those games you sent me), so in games when that happens try using those instructions.

Get to half time in a game and have a look at what Messi's been up to - even if he isn't getting goalscoring opportunities, he's still being useful for the team usually (for example, he had a number of key passes in the valencia game and I noticed he was creating good space for team mates). If you notice he's not getting good chances, use the different IF instructions, because clearly the IFs aren't able to get by the defence and get through to Messi! Check his passes in analysis at half time. If he's getting in some passes in deeper positions (AM area) then he's getting himself involved with the play and you don't have to worry about that (just have to worry about getting him some support to get more shots in), but if he's not very involved in that part of the pitch then he's too isolated to do anything, in which case try moving Messi to the AM position (trequartista still) and use the instruction "get further forward" - this will drop him deeper to involve himself with the game more, but also push him forward when the team are attacking to get on the end of crosses/passes. Also take into consideration the other tactical advice I gave in my previous post.

Hope that helps out. Let me know how it goes for you.

for your training to have the slider all the way to the left/right throughout the season or have it half way?

Pre-season, I have it at max with tactics only. After the team are fluid in everything, I switch to teamwork with the slider at about half way.

TokyoBlade, what kind of instructions do you use for your set-pieces - attacking/defending corners, free kicks and throw-ins? Also, what kind of individual training do you use for some of your key players, specifically Messi?

I usually like playing near post or short. My DCs (who attack the post for corners) combined got 25 goals, lol (main reason Xavi has so many assists ). Though the AI doesn't mark on the near post at the moment, so don't expect to get so many goals from corners in the next patch. I give Messi the specific role training of Trequartista on average (doesn't need to be high because he's already developed and he gets upset about training when you have it on low).

In terms of team training, I assume that during pre-season you use Team Cohesion with High Intensity for General Training and Tactics training for Match Prep at 50%. Then once the team has become fluid and familiar with the tactic, you switch to Teamwork for Match Prep. Do you then lower the intensity of the Team Cohesion and do you lower the % of the Match Prep training?

Absolutely right, except I put the slider for match prep (tactics only) at max in pre-season and lower it back down after the team get fluid.

[the SLC]

Easiest way is probably to upload to mediafire (https://www.mediafire.com/) then send me the link.

hi mate I have decided to start again. implementing all your advice along with the training and team talks. bought a few players. see below SSs for players bought/sold, current team stats,fixtures and results

https://www.mediafire.com/view/9t9jptoege9z4zp/Manchester_United_Fixtures_Schedule-4.png#

https://www.mediafire.com/view/hxu527vpaddg6i5/Man_Utd_Transfers_Transfer_History-4.png#

https://www.mediafire.com/view/tghl723ufvpvvgr/Manchester_United_Squad_Players.png#

big big thank you to you for the help once again

[begoodpam]

Hi TokyoBlade, if you don't mine I send to you PM, congratulations to your job in this thread.

[TokyoBlade]

hi mate I have decided to start again. implementing all your advice along with the training and team talks. bought a few players. see below SSs for players bought/sold, current team stats,fixtures and results

https://www.mediafire.com/view/9t9jptoege9z4zp/Manchester_United_Fixtures_Schedule-4.png#

https://www.mediafire.com/view/hxu527vpaddg6i5/Man_Utd_Transfers_Transfer_History-4.png#

https://www.mediafire.com/view/tghl723ufvpvvgr/Manchester_United_Squad_Players.png#

big big thank you to you for the help once again

Awesome start! Van Persie and Rossi are absolutely on fire! Now you've experienced first hand how such seemingly small things have such a big impact on both team and player performance Motivating players and team unity are absolutely essential for getting consistently good performances (particular with this system) and I see you've taken my advice on the individual team talks for key players on board (you must have to have gotten those kind of performances out of them!). Great job (also, fantastic job on the sales of Hernandez, Anderson, Nani and Kagawa! look at all that profit!)

I think the problem people have been having using my tactic is that they are simply playing the system and formation without considering the team unity and motivation of key players (especially the trequartista role - since the entire system is built around him! if he isn't performing, the team won't get the kind of results they should be getting) - Sure, you'll still get decent results by just using the system as it is, but to truly unlock the full potential of this tactic one must heed all my advice in this thread I realise it's a lot to take in, but it's necessary in order get the best out of the team. You've shown how taking on board all the advice I have given will give you top performances from your trequartistas.

Again, great job and I'm glad to see you've really started getting the full potential out of my system. Keep it up, and best of luck to you in your Man U save (and remember to keep your trequartistas fully motivated at all times!)

[yonko]

I usually like playing near post or short. My DCs (who attack the post for corners) combined got 25 goals, lol (main reason Xavi has so many assists ). Though the AI doesn't mark on the near post at the moment, so don't expect to get so many goals from corners in the next patch. I give Messi the specific role training of Trequartista on average (doesn't need to be high because he's already developed and he gets upset about training when you have it on low).

I was hoping for a little more detailed answer on the set-pieces settings. Where is Messi set up to be on corners and throw-ins? Has he scored any free-kicks for you?

[TokyoBlade]

I was hoping for a little more detailed answer on the set-pieces settings. Where is Messi set up to be on corners and throw-ins? Has he scored any free-kicks for you?

I have Messi offering the short option at corners (as another option for Xavi, because even when the corners are set to near post he doesn't always go for near post! besides Messi is no threat in the air, so I don't want him in the area), which has gotten him a few assists (like when he crosses it on) and a few goals. I leave throw-in settings on default. Yes, he's scored a few free-kicks for me

[the SLC]

I have Messi offering the short option at corners (as another option for Xavi, because even when the corners are set to near post he doesn't always go for near post! besides Messi is no threat in the air, so I don't want him in the area), which has gotten him a few assists (like when he crosses it on) and a few goals. I leave throw-in settings on default. Yes, he's scored a few free-kicks for me

is there anyway to keep it tighter at the back? im conceding far too many for a top side?

also for the team talks. what do you say to the whole squad 1st? before you do individual talks.

[the SLC]

I have Messi offering the short option at corners (as another option for Xavi, because even when the corners are set to near post he doesn't always go for near post! besides Messi is no threat in the air, so I don't want him in the area), which has gotten him a few assists (like when he crosses it on) and a few goals. I leave throw-in settings on default. Yes, he's scored a few free-kicks for me

hi Tokyo!

sorry to keep pestering you but can you please have a look at my save? to see where I went wrong. I went through a stage where I just could not win. it cost me the league!!

my treqs went on a barren run too!! could not stop conceding either very frustrating considering the start I had!!

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5apc2xxcne3y6xx/united.fm

[TokyoBlade]

is there anyway to keep it tighter at the back? im conceding far too many for a top side?

I disagree; your defence is actually quite solid. You've conceded the least goals in the league, after all, so you can't be doing that bad There's not much you can do to help prevent goals when the opponent counters, due to the nature of this system. However, I'm convinced these tactics will be more solid defensively once full/wing-backs know how to defend (so, after a patch which addresses the match engine problems). I'm looking forward to seeing how these tactics play out after the update.

hi Tokyo!

sorry to keep pestering you but can you please have a look at my save? to see where I went wrong. I went through a stage where I just could not win. it cost me the league!!

my treqs went on a barren run too!! could not stop conceding either very frustrating considering the start I had!!

http://www.mediafire.com/download/5apc2xxcne3y6xx/united.fm

You had a great season, actually! So don't be disappointed. 82 points in the league is good - remember, Man U won the title in the 10-11 season with "only" 80 points. Look at how many points clear you were of 3rd place! Again, you were just very unlucky that Chelsea had a dominant season and you only just finished behind them. Chelsea always seem to be great early on in this game.

Great job on winning the champs league and capital one cup Winning 2 trophies in a season and only just missing out on the league title is a great result.

You were very unlucky in some of your games, such as the West Brom defeat and the 0-0 draw at home against Everton. In other games, such as the 2-0 defeat against PSG, your team wasn't creating good chances. In the event you have games like this, where you are controlling the game yet aren't getting good chances, refer to my advice in an earlier post. I'll post it again here:

This support should come primarily from the IFs. Some reasons they may not be supporting him enough are because they keep choosing to shoot rather than pick him out with a pass/cross (if this is the case, use the "shoots less often" instructions for them as I mentioned before), or maybe they keep losing possession on the flanks so they can't get a ball into him (if this happens to you, you could try instructing them to "dribble less", encouraging them to find passes to teammates rather than try to dribble through the defence. alternatively, you could try instructing them to cross the ball from deep, encouraging them to cross into Messi from deeper positions rather than try to beat a defender before getting a pass/cross in). If, during a game, all those instruction changes still isn't getting Messi enough support, try changing the IFs from Attack to Support, removing the "gets forward" instructions and giving them "sit narrower" instructions in an attempt to get play through to Messi more centrally rather than through crosses/passes in the opponent's area. Alternatively, you could tell your wing backs to "cross more often" and "cross from deep" to try and get crosses into Messi more often, since the IFs aren't managing it! If that still isn't helping, keep the IFs as Attack with the get forward instruction, and bring Messi down to the AM position (still in Trequartista role), to try and get him more involved with play, acting more as a playmaker for the IFs than being on the receiving end of their passes/crosses (he probably won't be scoring many this way, but he could get some assists and at least he'll be more involved with play). I never had to do any of this myself, because both Messi and the team as a whole played great all season (Messi always had plenty of scoring opportunities), but if the default setup isn't working for you, try some of the tactical alterations I have mentioned in the hope that Messi gets more support. Of course, to know which changes to make requires watching the game (I don't know what viewing mode you use, but "only commentary" is not going to help you identify why Messi isn't getting support. If you are using "only commentary", switch over to either 2D or 3D temporarily when you notice Messi isn't getting any chances to find out what's wrong. If you're already using 2D/3D, then keep an eye on what's happening on the pitch when your team get forward.

At other times, such as the defeat against Arsenal, your team had no control over the game. so your team couldn't create any chances. There are a couple of things you can do in an attempt to regain control:

- make the team play more compact (team instructions of push the defence higher up, play narrower, and exploit the middle)

- move the defending CM to the central DM position with the role of half back (and move the central MC over to the right a bit more. and remove "close down often" for the advanced playmaker. and make sure you have the defensive line pushing up)

This won't guarantee regaining control, but it can help. If you still can't get any control (which will happen, especially against big teams when they play at home), then you'll have to look at a different strategy. You'll have to switch to a counter style (use either "counter" or "defensive" mentality, with either "rigid" or "balanced" fluidity, and use a DM with "anchor man" role. also switch the DLP to defend duty and either switch AP to support duty or change him to DLP-support. and change the wing backs to full back-defend. also, change the IFs to attacking wingers. Finally, change the trequartista to complete forward-attack), with instructions of "more direct passing", "pass into space", "clear ball to flanks", "drill crosses", "exploit the flanks", "play wider", either "drop deeper" or "much deeper defensive line", "stick to positions", "stand off opponents", "stay on feet", either "much higher tempo" or "higher tempo", and "be more disciplined". Remove any individual instructions for closing down and tackling (except "ease off tackles" for players with poor tackling ability). Doing this will allow the opponent to keep possession, but makes sure you have a solid defensive shape so it's harder to them to break down, then when your team gets the ball they quickly pump the ball up to the flanks. Also, it's a good idea to keep your DLP on "edge of area" when defending corners, so he can launch a counter attacking move.

^ you might want to save this and use it as a secondary(/alternative) tactic, for the games where you can't keep possession/control the game. I definitely don't recommend using it in any other situation other than when you are losing the possession battle. You shouldn't have to use it much though, because your team seems to keep control most of the time.

For most of the time though, if you can keep the team and star individuals well motivated all season then you won't need to make any changes when you play as a strong team like Barcelona or Man U (for instance, in my Barcelona save I made no changes all season, with the exception of a game or 2 when I was struggling to keep control so I made the minor changes outlined above in an attempt to regain control, yet I only lost 1 game all season - against Man U in the champs league semis, first leg).

But tactics aside (and the tactics are clearly working for you on the whole, considering your success this season), I think the only thing is getting used to getting the best out of players. You're definitely on the right track - Rossi has 16 goals in 22 games in the league, and Van Persie has 10 in 17 (23 in 33 in all competitions), which is good. Morale across the whole team is fantastic and there is great team unity. In regards to team talks, it's very difficult to outline exactly what I do in every situation because it depends on so many things. My best advice is to simply keep trying different things in different situations and see what results you get. However, here's a basic idea to get you started:

Pre-match

- "assertive - expect to win" when I'm favourite to win.

- "assertive - impress me" when I'm not favourite to win. (/sometimes "calm - impress me" or one of the passionate ones when I'm away. again, depending on all kinds of different things)

Half-time - At Home

- "calm - pleased" if I am favourites to win and am winning at half time

- "assertive - not happy" if I am favourites to win yet am either drawing or losing by 1 goal

- "aggressive - not happy" if I am favourites to win yet am losing by 2+ goals

- "calm - pleased" if I am not favourites to win but am drawing or winning by 1 goal

- "passionate - delighted" if I am not favourites to win but am winning by 2+ goals

- "assertive - disappointed" if I am not favourites and am losing by 1 goal

- "aggressive - not happy" if I am not favourites and am losing by 2+ goals

- "assertive - guard against complacency" if my team are winning/are favourites/can handle pressure and have been conceding too many goals in the second half of recent matches.

Half-time - Away

- "calm - pleased" if I am favourites to win and am winning at half time

- "assertive - not happy" if I am favourites to win yet am either drawing or losing by 1 goal

- "aggressive - not happy" if I am favourites to win yet am losing by 2+ goals, and if my team have been in good form recently

- "assertive - not happy" if I am favourites to win yet am losing by 2+ goals, and if my team haven't been in good form recently. Though if I know my team can handle pressure and/or I'm on most of their favourite persons lists, I use aggressive.

- "calm - go and get that one goal to win it for us"(/"you can still win this game", or whatever variation of it is on there) or "passionate - go and get that one goal to win it for us" if I am not favourites to win and am drawing

- "passionate - pleased" if I am not favourites to win and am winning

- "assertive - disappointed" if I am not favourites to win and am losing

- "aggressive - disappointed" if I am not favourites to win and am losing and my team are in good form and/or can handle pressure

- "assertive - guard against complacency" if my team are winning/are favourites/can handle pressure and have been conceding too many goals in the second half of recent matches.

Full-time - Home

- "calm - pleased" if I am favourites and win

- "passionate - delighted" if I am favourites and get a fantastic win, with great ratings across the whole team

- "assertive - disappointed" if I am favourites but draw

- "aggressive - not happy" if I am favourites but lose

- "passionate - delighted" if I am not favourites but win

- "calm - pleased" if I am not favourites and draw

- "assertive - disappointed" if I am not favourites and lose

- "aggressive - not happy" if I am not favourites and lose with poor ratings across the team

- "aggressive - not happy with second half" if I am favourites, pick up the win, but had a poor second half

Full-time - Away

- "calm - pleased" if I am favourites and win

- "passionate - delighted" if I am favourites and get a fantastic win, with great ratings across the whole team

- "assertive - disappointed" if I am favourites but draw

- "assertive - disappointed" if I am favourites but lose

- "aggressive - not happy" if I am favourites but lose and get bad player ratings

- "passionate - delighted" if I am not favourites but win

- "calm - pleased" or "passionate - delighted" if I am not favourites and draw

- "calm - unlucky" or "calm - don't worry about result" or anything similar if I am not favourites and lose

- "assertive - not happy" if I am not favourites and my team lost and player ratings weren't good and they have been in good form recently

- "assertive - not happy with second half" if I am favourites, pick up the win, but had a poor second half

Again, this is just a basic idea so don't consider this a definitive guide of what you HAVE to do for team talks (think of it as a starting point and build from there). Team talks are incredibly in-depth and complex so it will take you a while to get used to how to use them to best effect (and when to use whatever talk in certain situations, taking all kinds of things into consideration - team form, personality of the team, whether you are favourites or not, whether you are playing against a rival team, etc). There's only so much I can teach when it comes to this, because a lot of it needs to be learned from experience. I could do a massive post outlining every possible situation for team talks, but that would be counter-productive, because it would just be me spoon-feeding everyone rather than giving a starting point so people can learn for themselves. If I just explain everything in that kind of detail, no one will understand exactly why that certain talk had that effect on this particular group of players in this particular situation because they'll just be copying someone else's understanding, if you know what I mean?

But anyway, I'd definitely say you're on the right track with all this. The main point for you to focus on I think is getting used to team talks (both team and individual) and motivation in general. It will take a lot of experimentation, but keep at it and you will get it down to a fine art. It took me ages to get good at it (I think I didn't really start getting good at it until around FM10 or FM11), but it was well worth the effort I put in.

[jean.lamy84]

Fantastic post for a fantastic thread. Many useful informations and tips. Thanks.

[Auqakuh]

Hullo. Trying to adapt some of this - particularly the supply from IFs to a trequartista - for my Man Utd team. So far I'm not getting anywhere good.

I have a regen relatively similar to Messi, albeit obviously fairly young (20 now) and not quite as good; he has good attributes for the role, good acceleration to let him beat his man, good finishing, good composure, etc etc, and he's scored 22 goals in 30-odd games, which is a pretty good return. The only problem is that he scores almost all of them in his second position, as an attacking inside forward; as a treq he simply isn't involved in the final third, no matter what I do.

The issue appears to be threefold, looking at analysis. Firstly, my inside forwards do not pass the ball to him in attacking positions, instead preferring to cut back to my AP/A (Januzaj) or DLP/S (Thiago). At first, I thought this was because of their positioning (I have them playing pushed up and narrow), but it may not be. It may, in fact, be because of his positioning.

Which leads to my "secondly"; he gets far too far forward. Generally, when the ball into the box should be imminent, either from a cut back or a cross, he can be found loitering about 3 yards in front of the penalty spot. He has extremely good Off The Ball (19), and I can't understand why he's in that position when it effectively completely removes him from play! On the upside, it does give Januzaj space to bomb into, with the opposing centre-backs generally sucked in to cover my striker, which leads to a fair amount of goalscoring chances both for Januzaj and for Thiago, depending on who is further forward.

The third issue is that where he does get involved in play is so deep that he's effectively limited to spraying a pass wide to a player who then won't return it when he makes a good run, or passing backwards (80% of his passes go back to Thiago or Januzaj).

This is fine in terms of team play, as we score plenty of goals (79 in 30 in the league), but we could, I think, do much better if we actually fed the lad up front. Generally his rating falls throughout the match until I get sick of his lack of involvement and shunt him out wide where he can do some actual damage. His rating also doesn't really make much sense, because although he's not involved directly in our attacking play, his movement is almost certainly the main contributer to making us remarkably hard to defend against - defenders don't know who to mark, and get sucked away from their ideal positions by him all the time. Which would be great, but it's not what I want to happen.

He does not do well in the AM slot, largely because he's quite small and isn't strong enough to deal with DMs (in one match, he was fouled 30 times... there were no bookings, either, which seems a bit weird, but never mind).

Tried switching my IFs to support and just narrow instead of further forward, but that didn't help and just neutered their performances completely, destroying the team's attacking threat completely.

It's not just him, either. Before van Persie got old and decrepit, he was playing in this role. He would score goals, but primarily only on the counter; he only managed about 18 goals a season in the league. The wide players also refused to cross to him at all, even though he, unlike my current forward, did actually have some aerial threat.

I mean, this isn't really too bad (we're on course for our second Champions League title in a row, won the league 2 seasons in a row, blah blah blah)... but I'd like to win with 11 players, not 10 and one wandering around aimlessly!

Oh, and my first choice IFs could be a little better, but they also shouldn't be quite so bad at this, I think. Not been able to find a good right-sided IF, so stuck with Nani there (still as selfish as ever when it comes to shots, but does have 12 assists this season) or Valencia (who, clearly, can't cut inside as would be ideal but does make a fine late arrival at the far post late in games). On the left I have youngster Brandt (has become a very good team player, but not great ability yet), El Shaarawy (could be more selfless), or Januzaj (good team player), depending on fitness and rotation. Kagawa also gets a turn on the left occasionally, depending on opposition.

[TokyoBlade]

Hullo. Trying to adapt some of this - particularly the supply from IFs to a trequartista - for my Man Utd team. So far I'm not getting anywhere good.

I have a regen relatively similar to Messi, albeit obviously fairly young (20 now) and not quite as good; he has good attributes for the role, good acceleration to let him beat his man, good finishing, good composure, etc etc, and he's scored 22 goals in 30-odd games, which is a pretty good return. The only problem is that he scores almost all of them in his second position, as an attacking inside forward; as a treq he simply isn't involved in the final third, no matter what I do.

The issue appears to be threefold, looking at analysis. Firstly, my inside forwards do not pass the ball to him in attacking positions, instead preferring to cut back to my AP/A (Januzaj) or DLP/S (Thiago). At first, I thought this was because of their positioning (I have them playing pushed up and narrow), but it may not be. It may, in fact, be because of his positioning.

Which leads to my "secondly"; he gets far too far forward. Generally, when the ball into the box should be imminent, either from a cut back or a cross, he can be found loitering about 3 yards in front of the penalty spot. He has extremely good Off The Ball (19), and I can't understand why he's in that position when it effectively completely removes him from play! On the upside, it does give Januzaj space to bomb into, with the opposing centre-backs generally sucked in to cover my striker, which leads to a fair amount of goalscoring chances both for Januzaj and for Thiago, depending on who is further forward.

The third issue is that where he does get involved in play is so deep that he's effectively limited to spraying a pass wide to a player who then won't return it when he makes a good run, or passing backwards (80% of his passes go back to Thiago or Januzaj).

This is fine in terms of team play, as we score plenty of goals (79 in 30 in the league), but we could, I think, do much better if we actually fed the lad up front. Generally his rating falls throughout the match until I get sick of his lack of involvement and shunt him out wide where he can do some actual damage. His rating also doesn't really make much sense, because although he's not involved directly in our attacking play, his movement is almost certainly the main contributer to making us remarkably hard to defend against - defenders don't know who to mark, and get sucked away from their ideal positions by him all the time. Which would be great, but it's not what I want to happen.

He does not do well in the AM slot, largely because he's quite small and isn't strong enough to deal with DMs (in one match, he was fouled 30 times... there were no bookings, either, which seems a bit weird, but never mind).

Tried switching my IFs to support and just narrow instead of further forward, but that didn't help and just neutered their performances completely, destroying the team's attacking threat completely.

It's not just him, either. Before van Persie got old and decrepit, he was playing in this role. He would score goals, but primarily only on the counter; he only managed about 18 goals a season in the league. The wide players also refused to cross to him at all, even though he, unlike my current forward, did actually have some aerial threat.

I mean, this isn't really too bad (we're on course for our second Champions League title in a row, won the league 2 seasons in a row, blah blah blah)... but I'd like to win with 11 players, not 10 and one wandering around aimlessly!

Oh, and my first choice IFs could be a little better, but they also shouldn't be quite so bad at this, I think. Not been able to find a good right-sided IF, so stuck with Nani there (still as selfish as ever when it comes to shots, but does have 12 assists this season) or Valencia (who, clearly, can't cut inside as would be ideal but does make a fine late arrival at the far post late in games). On the left I have youngster Brandt (has become a very good team player, but not great ability yet), El Shaarawy (could be more selfless), or Januzaj (good team player), depending on fitness and rotation. Kagawa also gets a turn on the left occasionally, depending on opposition.

If no matter what you do, your players are refusing to give support to your ST (through crosses or passes or whatever), then try changing his role to Deep Lying Forward - Support, in an attempt to force him to come back a bit more and attack from deep rather than wait for a cross/pass into the area that will never come. I've seen this happen myself and it is indeed very annoying - I find myself moaning "why won't you just cross it in for him!? He's in space!", lol Never had to do this for Messi because he was always getting support. But with other teams/players I've noticed the forward just never gets any support.

Give that a try and let me know how it goes for you.

[Auqakuh]

Yeah, it's a little crazy. My attacks that go right through the middle are powerful, with my front man pulling defenders out of position for my midfielders to run into space, or the IFs getting into space wide for a diagonal shot on goal... but when the IFs get the ball wide, they dribble to the touchline, stop, turn around, hold the ball for a moment, and then pass it 30-40 yards back into midfield or to the wingback.

It's incredibly annoying. I don't get any crosses at all apart from on corners! In one sense this makes sense - he's only 5'5", so I can see why they'd not see him as an option, but surprisingly he has quite good Jumping Reach and wins headers in midfield (when the ball is appropriate height, of course) just by having superior movement and acceleration. A drilled cross cut back to the near post or the middle of the box would be deadly... if it would ever happen. I've tried forcing that with instructions but it still doesn't happen - not even a certain Ecuadorian known for impressive drilled crosses will do it.

Will try him as a DLF, thanks. Not sure how effective that'll be, mind, as he's not particularly strong... but worth a shot. Failing that I'll have to bring someone (taller...) in next summer and just stick with him as a dangerous wide man.

ETA: playing him as a DLF doesn't work that well either. Also tried him as a False 9, with and without roaming, and although he's more involved, he's not getting more than 1 or 2 shots per match still. Will have to see how it goes. Signed a forward anyway, since two left, who may be able to offer more of a physical presence. Will see how that goes!

[TokyoBlade]

Yeah, it's a little crazy. My attacks that go right through the middle are powerful, with my front man pulling defenders out of position for my midfielders to run into space, or the IFs getting into space wide for a diagonal shot on goal... but when the IFs get the ball wide, they dribble to the touchline, stop, turn around, hold the ball for a moment, and then pass it 30-40 yards back into midfield or to the wingback.

Yes, that's very annoying! I think that's a known issue (wide players making stupid decisions, such as passing it all the way back to defence/midfield despite better attacking options or crossing opportunities), so hopefully it'll be fixed in the next update.

Maybe I got lucky with my IFs supporting Messi, because they always crossed it in for him or passed it to him when he was in space:

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/9633/gtpj.png

^ Messi was getting up to 13 shots per game using this system! So that proves that when the support is good, your ST gets plenty of opportunities.

I'll play around using other teams to see what happens.

[Auqakuh]

Yes, that's very annoying! I think that's a known issue (wide players making stupid decisions, such as passing it all the way back to defence/midfield despite better attacking options or crossing opportunities), so hopefully it'll be fixed in the next update.

Maybe I got lucky with my IFs supporting Messi, because they always crossed it in for him or passed it to him when he was in space:

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/9633/gtpj.png

^ Messi was getting up to 13 shots per game using this system! So that proves that when the support is good, your ST gets plenty of opportunities.

I'll play around using other teams to see what happens.

Oh sure, taunt me with your nifty stats.

It may well be that my treq's movement just isn't good enough, despite what I can see when I watch full matches. Perhaps I'll put him out wide until he's a little older; in the past I've noticed that younger players' mental attributes don't seem as good as they appear, somehow. For example, his Off The Ball is 17 (also with surprisingly good Decisions at 15 and Flair at 16), which for a 28 year old striker would usually result in getting lots of opportunities. But for a 20 year old, it seems that their lack of match experience means that while they have it in their head, or something, it doesn't translate to performances.

On the other hand, when he plays out wide, he's got more space, is under less pressure, and turns in performances such as he just did for England - getting a 9.7 and a 6 minute (!!!) hat-trick from the bench against Croatia when brought on to play wide right.

For now, I've brought in Jackson Martinez from Porto, and will just rotate him with ageing van Persie and Welbeck up front (Welbeck usually plays wide left instead, though, when Januzaj is tired), both of whom get assists and (limited) goals when used as DLFs.

I think a pretty good team is in the making, once the youngsters grow up a little. In a couple years my midfield will be Shaarawy IF/A left, Januzaj AP/A (9 goals, 16 assists last year), Thiago DLP/S (3 assists and 8 goals last year), Ward-Prowse CM/D (4 assists and 6 goals), and Brandt IF/A right (likely to become a regular this season, in rotation with my regen, Boone). Should be good. And hopefully the IFs will support Boone nicely, once he's old enough (...or a patch fixes the ME's current shortcomings, whichever is the issue).

[Auqakuh]

I got him firing, at last.

The key was to sign Zlatan and threaten to lock him in a room with him for four hours. >.>

...or maybe it was more along the lines of switching him back to a treq and shunting him to the striker position again immediately after he scored a sweet free kick, while setting those supporting wing backs to attacking fullbacks instead. This apparently lets my IFs be more createy, through some sort of magic I'm not yet figuring out. Two against Arsenal. Hat-trick against Chelsea. Two against PSG. \o/

And better still, he seems to work particularly well with Brandt. Some quite pretty football, too!

[angelo994]

Still no improvements. If anything Messi is playing even worse. He has superb Morale, as does the entire team basically.

Is there a bug with the shooting in FM 14? Because it's honestly ridiculous the amount of clear cut chances Messi misses or long shots he takes.

Incredibly frustrating.

[Auqakuh]

Still no improvements. If anything Messi is playing even worse. He has superb Morale, as does the entire team basically.

Is there a bug with the shooting in FM 14? Because it's honestly ridiculous the amount of clear cut chances Messi misses or long shots he takes.

Incredibly frustrating.

There seems to be two kinds of morale, morale and then probably some sort of "positional confidence". If the positional confidence (I'd call it form, but it doesn't necessarily seem related) is low, they shoot from range too much (desperate to score, I guess?) and generally snatch at chances. You could try moving Messi to another position, say as an inside forward, play a creative type in his position, and push Messi further forward and the other IF narrow but not as far forward on a support role, to try to emphasise getting the ball to Messi in advanced positions. Once he gets two goals in a game, shunt him back into the middle, let him get a good performance in the position and see if that improves his confidence.

I'm pretty sure that's what worked for my trequartista. He just needed a confidence boost to get his full form. And I'm 99% sure confidence is separate to morale, because he's a regen and even with superb morale, he had a very frowny face. Every other regen I've seen with high morale has a big smiley face, so...

Tenuous, I know, but still.

[TokyoBlade]

I got him firing, at last.

The key was to sign Zlatan and threaten to lock him in a room with him for four hours. >.>

...or maybe it was more along the lines of switching him back to a treq and shunting him to the striker position again immediately after he scored a sweet free kick, while setting those supporting wing backs to attacking fullbacks instead. This apparently lets my IFs be more createy, through some sort of magic I'm not yet figuring out. Two against Arsenal. Hat-trick against Chelsea. Two against PSG. \o/

And better still, he seems to work particularly well with Brandt. Some quite pretty football, too!

Awesome

Is there a bug with the shooting in FM 14? Because it's honestly ridiculous the amount of clear cut chances Messi misses or long shots he takes.

Incredibly frustrating.

Yes, the conversion of good chances is low in this game. I agree it's frustrating

[Auqakuh]

I think the problem is less a low conversion rate and more a too-great default willingness to shoot. I'm setting more players to "shoot less often" and finding them far more willing to play quick little passes in the penalty area to players in better positions to shoot, and getting a better shots-to-goal ratio as a result.

I think the goalkeeper animations are a little... squiffy. So it looks like the goalie is out of position (meaning a shot to the right hand top corner, for example, should be a dead certain goal) but he really isn't.

[Auqakuh]

After a slow process of tweaking the inside forward positions for my rotating rather five players in those positions (Shaarawy, Ozil, Brandt, Januzaj/Kagawa), my man Boone scored 50 goals in 55 appearances, including being top scorer in the Champions League with 13 goals (one off of Messi's best a few years ago), then in the European Championship with 6, and scoring 9 hat-tricks over the season. Quite variable form though and he's very sensitive to getting isolated against defensively strong teams (barely turned up against Chelsea, for example, but then scored a hat-trick the following week against Benfica).

I'm going to try to evolve the system this year. Not entirely happy with that midfield three; while having the DLP so central is great, it's too lopsided for my liking and the better AI managers have figured out how to crowd the midfield out and prevent good moves from building (though not preventing us from dominating possession!).

Since my guy is so similar in style of play to Messi (albeit not in talent!), if I get him scoring even better than last season, I'll be sure to post back with details both about the tweaks I make and the player attributes involved.

[CoI3aR]

Good job , nice topic

[Mark.]

Yup great topic. Awesome info from TokyoBlade, and Auqakuh, really enjoying reading about your experience with a different team and how it is evolving.

[Auqakuh]

Unfortunately not sure I'm going to get him scoring again half as much this year - teams are now just kicking my team around the park as hard as they can. Stupid realistically cynical Premier League...

Although I am starting to wonder if Boone is superhuman. He's been fouled no less than 11 times in our first 4 games, and was fouled 137 times in 56 last season...

Not a single injury. (!!!!)

He's still getting a goal a game, but I'm sure he can do better, if I can just get the passing support right...

[Anti Spiral]

Really great stuff in this thread.

[Auqakuh]

I meant to ask. TokyoBlade, how exactly do you get your team to cross to Messi? My player is similarly quite short, and for some reason this seems to equate to "never ever cross the ball". If I play a tall player in the same role, they start crossing, so clearly it has to do with height... but you mentioned somewhere up above in the bowels of this grand thread (heh) about getting early crosses into Messi.

How? I set the instructions and the players just ignore them.

Mind you, they're ignoring a lot of things this season, most notably my set-piece instructions. Nobody goes short no matter what I set and half the time nobody's attacking either post, they just mill around uselessly around the middle of the penalty area... sometimes even my fullbacks go up for no clear reason. :/

[burgalveist]

Mind you, they're ignoring a lot of things this season, most notably my set-piece instructions. Nobody goes short no matter what I set and half the time nobody's attacking either post, they just mill around uselessly around the middle of the penalty area... sometimes even my fullbacks go up for no clear reason. :/

Because it is a bug. Reason I stopped playing, my stay forward player ended up in a free kick wall and deflecting it passed my goalie!

[Auqakuh]

Oh, that's good to know. At least I'm not going crazy.

Shame, too, I'd just got my set pieces set up nicely.

[Marbah]

Hi mate,

i've got a question for you, how will these changes impact the tactic?

if i use and AF or CF as a striker and a BWM on the right and DLP defend

also why are you not using the shout pushing higher up?

Yes, that's very annoying! I think that's a known issue (wide players making stupid decisions, such as passing it all the way back to defence/midfield despite better attacking options or crossing opportunities), so hopefully it'll be fixed in the next update.

Maybe I got lucky with my IFs supporting Messi, because they always crossed it in for him or passed it to him when he was in space:

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/9633/gtpj.png

^ Messi was getting up to 13 shots per game using this system! So that proves that when the support is good, your ST gets plenty of opportunities.

I'll play around using other teams to see what happens.