My attempt to make the 4-4-2 Box on FM 14

[trk12]

Some of you may remember Uncle_Sam’s threads about the 4-4-2 box formation. They were fantastic, but he didn’t do one last year and hasn’t done one so far this year and I haven't seen another thread about it (correct me if there is one) so I figured I would give it a go myself. My qualifications for creating a thread based on Uncle_Sam’s tactical discussions are:

1. I am also an American

And that’s about it. I’m not a tactical guru, and up until this year I have not been able to watch very much football/soccer (thanks NBC Sports). Indeed, my strategy with tactics in FM has generally been to download others’ tactics and tweak it slightly to better fit my team – which, really is what I am doing here except without the download part. My main focus of the game has always been making good transfers (and spending a lot of time scouting for the perfect players), so I have not really developed a good sense of tactics despite playing FM for eight years or so. For these reasons, the purpose of this thread for me is to just start a discussion about the 4-4-2 box formation and hopefully get some advice from the more tactically astute posters.

I started out basically using Uncle_Sam’s template from two years ago (http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/293315-FM-2012-4-4-2-Box-Midfield-Project) with my Sporting Lisbon team. I did not, however, have much success and I changed to a downloaded tactic. Fast forward a couple of years down the road (in game time, obviously), and I am now in charge of Napoli and have had great success with them. But I grew tired of using some downloaded tactic, and so I decided to try to build my own tactic again, returning to the 4-4-2 box.

As I said before, using the settings from the thread from two years ago was not working for me, so I decided to try a few different things. The only real difference in roles/duties are that I went with a deep-lying forward instead of a complete forward and an advanced playmaker on support instead of a central midfielder as support.

The bigger changes I have tried have been to the mentality and fluidity, in addition to trying out different team shouts and individual instructions. After testing a few combinations, I settled on Attacking and Very Fluid rather than Counter and Balanced. One problem I have, as I said before, is that my understanding of FM, and of football in general, is somewhat limited. So when I’m testing tactics, I really can only say either “this is working” or “this isn’t working.” That binary analysis does not really help iron out the tactic and resolve more subtle problems. That said, I did a good bit of trial and error and hopefully came out with a tactic that works reasonably well. Here are the team instructions:

The team instructions mostly follow Uncle_Sam’s tactics. One difference is that I removed “Work Ball Into Box” because I read somewhere that the instruction may limit some of the riskier through balls – something I do not want to happen. Instead, I set individual instructions for many of my attackers to “Shoot Less Often.” I also added “Look For Overlap,” but I’m not sure if I will keep it – it seems to keep the wing backs from crossing until they reach the byline – good in most cases, but occasionally the wing backs will refuse to cross it early if there is an open man making a run, which can be very frustrating. I’m not sure if it is this instruction or if something else is the cause, however. I also added “Exploit the Middle” to try to make the offense flow more through the midfielders and less through the wing backs. And finally, I added “Run at Defense” to try to keep possession a little better, though I’m not sure if it is limiting through balls.

Here are the player instructions (I figured typing them would be easier).

Sweeper keeper – distribute to defenders, pass it shorter

Wing backs – run wide with ball, stay wider, pass it shorter, close down more, mark tighter

Cbs – mark tighter, pass it shorter, fewer risky passes (for BPD – which may nullify having his role be BPD and not just another CB, but he was giving away the ball too often)

DLP – mark tighter

DM – pass it shorter, mark tighter, get further forward, close down more

AP – roam from position, dribble more, close down more, run wide with ball

CM – roam from position, get further forward, close down more, dribble more, run wide with ball, shoot less often, pass it shorter

DLF – shoot less often, move into channels

AF – move into channels, pass it shorter, shoot less often

Things I’m experimenting with or would like to experiment with –

Setting mentality to control

This would hopefully keep possession better and make the team play more patient build-up to get better chances – I’ve noticed with Attack that it often creates a lot of shots but not many great chances.

Setting the wingbacks to support instead of attack.

The wingbacks often find themselves somewhat isolated and end up giving the ball away – maybe putting them on support will slow their advance so the midfielders can catch up. Also, they often get too far ahead when the CBs have the ball, leaving the CBs with fewer options.

Moving one or both of the CMs to an AM position

This may help with the link-up play with forwards and the wing backs. I have found that at times the CMs are too slow to get forward on the attack (even with the get further forward instruction). I haven’t done too much with it though, so I’m not sure if it will move them too far ahead from the DMs.

Creating a more defensive version for stronger teams

The tactic seems to be pretty effective against most teams, but against bigger teams, particularly on the road, it can be vulnerable. So far, all I’ve really done is change the mentality to counter and removed the “be more expressive” shout, and changed passing to more direct. Everything else I left the same. I have tried this at a couple of points in matches (usually when I go up, or if the other team is really dominating possession), but the only match I’ve really committed to using this one for the full 90 minutes has been against Barcelona on the road, with interesting results (see below).

Removing certain team instructions – “Run at Defense” and “Look for Overlap” in particular

Other issues I have noticed –

“Stay on Feet” shout seems to be worthless – they keep sliding into every challenge it seems.

Seems too reliant on the wing backs at times and not enough on the midfielders to create chances

Players seem to hold on to the ball too long and get tackled when there seem to be outlets available (may be down to “Run at Defense” instruction or instructions to pass shorter?)

Results

This is the type of result I would like but have not consistently gotten (this result was actually with Control and the Wingbacks on Support duty):

As you can see, Genoa had no CCCs or half chances, and most of their shots came in garbage time (American Football expression, not sure if you use it in football). Good possession, though I would like it to be a bit more, and plenty of chances led to a 4-0 victory. Athough I do have a much superior team.

Here is some more analysis tools:

Average Positions

Action zones – I really like this as it shows I had a lot of possession deep in Genoa’s half, meaning I was putting a lot of pressure on their defense.

Player stats – this match was also good in that my midfielders were heavily involved in the attack. Too often with this tactic the wingbacks were attempting more passes than the two attacking midfielders, which I do not want, so this is was a good result.

So maybe Control with wing backs on Support is the way to go – small sample size though. I would post some other results using Attacking and with wing backs on Attack, but I’ve been tinkering with it so much I don’t know which matches were using what. I’ll have to play a few more games and update if anyone wants to see it.

And here is the Barcelona result with the defensive-oriented version. The amount of goals was really a strange result given the way the match went – 1 CCC for both teams, I had 3 half chances to their 1 half chance. My first two goals were from set pieces (2-0), then they scored off a strange situation in which the ball bounced between two of my defenders for a second before Stanciu stole it and had an easy chance (2-1). My next goal was off a good cross from my left wingback (3-1), followed by a Barca reply as my defender tackled the ball straight to Messi, who had no problem finishing (3-2). I then had an easy goal from the edge of the penalty error thanks to poor defending (4-2). Barca gets another goal as the result of a poor headed clearance from my CD (4-3). And finally I get the last goal from a cross from my left back – the same combo as for my third goal (5-3). Whew. Lots of goals, but really a more representative score would have been something like 2-1 or 3-1, as many of the goals were very fluky.

TL:DR – should not have been so many goals

So it seemed to do okay against a big side on the road, but this is obviously a small sample size and needs more testing.

It should be noted that I am not trying to build a tactic that necessarily reflects the real life Brazilian box tactic. What I am looking for is 1. Solid defense (limit CCCs and half chances of opposition) and 2. Attractive attacking play (creating CCCs). Possession is a means to an end (for both 1 and 2), but is not what I am really concerned with.

I realize that was a lot to read but if anyone wants to try it out or has any suggestions as to how to make it better and/or more consistent, I'm all ears. Also, I could show my team, give what I think are important attributes, etc. if anyone wants to try it out. The thing I really like about using this formation is that it makes it much easier to build a strong and deep squad, since there are fewer positions to take into account.

[kazm]

I tried to make a 4222 box in Fm14 too, didn't really get good results so far. Used pretty much the same setup, but less instructions.

Check the passing % for your midfielders, those were often really low for mine, <70%. I love the 4222 since using it pretty succesfully in fm13 .

[trk12]

My midfielders generally have good passing percentages - 80+%. It's my CDs and wing backs that generally have the lowest percentages - and my strikers, which I would expect. Then again, my midfielders are really the strength of my team - all of them, including my defensive midfielders, have good passing abilities. I think that's a key to the tactic - your players have to be very technically gifted, and my team is more talented than pretty much any other team in Italy, so I am having pretty good success with it. I would like to try it with better wing backs, though. Mine are good - Digne on the left and a regen on the right, but they aren't as good as my midfielders.

I am curious to see if this tactic can work with a team that is not clearly better than everyone else (it's 2021 in my league, so I've been able to stock up on quality regens better than the AI). I might try it with Spurs - get another striker and I think it can work with them, as they have a pretty good midfield and defenders.

[kazm]

Hm with 90% of teams playing 4231 or 41221 with wingers that's gonna be tough with a team that isn't one of the top teams it seems. It seemed so much easier in fm13.

[Bruce Higham]

I like the spring effect of the box, but I'm not sure your going to get it with a very fluid mentality. Have you tried the wbs in the dm strata? It's worked pretty well for me in other tactics, but I'd put them on support. What I'm currently working on is a regista next to a dm (d) in the dm strata, which allows the two cms to get forward a bit more.

The other thing I personally do with a tactic with only wb's is have a straight goal keeper that has to be good at jumping and handling for all the crosses coming in

[Xennaz]

Would dropping the forwards to the AM line and having one/both play as SS work maybe? If you are worried about linking with midfield.

[PeeKay]

A few minor points

1) Team is very passing, no one running with the ball

2) All your passers/playmakers on the right, try moving AP to the left of centre

3) The DLP could be a little wasted in the DM position with everyone so tightly around him. The killer pass would be too deep to be effective maybe more ball winning roles?

4) Short passing with out an AMC can cause isolation from the strikers

[Falahk]

I have been using the box for half a season now with manchester united, using uncle_sams fm12 tactic as a base to work from (sensible since he knows a lot more about this shape then I do)

the most notable change I have done so far is to drop retain possession since I felt it restricted and limited my play to much