Man Utd 4231 save problems

[manreaction]

I am Man Utd, and play 4-2-3-1. I've never been able to get the formation to work for me on previous FMs, but am determined to do it this time.

I created my own tactic, which was:

--------------GK----------------

----FB(s) CB© CB(x) FB(s)------

---------------------------------

---------BWM(d) DLP(s)----------

W(a)--------------------------W(a)

-----------EG(a)---------------

--------------AF(a)---------------

I found that I did alright, but conceded far too many goals and always seemed to lose the possession battle against pretty much everyone, even poor teams.

I then spent a couple of hours looking through all of llama3's tactical threads, and decided that one of the issues I was having was that my BWM was rampaging all over the pitch, leaving me with only one CM, which was causing possession problems. Based on what I read, I created this tactic:

--------------GK----------------

----WB(s) CB(d) CB(d) WB(s)------

---------------------------------

---------CM(d) DLP(s)----------

W(a)--------------------------W(a)

-----------TRQ(a)---------------

--------------DLF(s)---------------

I had the additional instructions of: Retain Possession, Use Offside Trap, Let Wide Men Swap Flanks, Work Ball Into Box.

I included these to make the build-up play more patient.

This worked MUCH better in terms of possession, I tended to finish matches with 60-70% possession now.

However, the first 4 games of the season were Draw-Draw-Loss-Loss. It seemed I just wasn't scoring regularly.

I checked the match stats - I was having about the same amount of shots as my opponents, sometimes more, and the majority of my shots were NOT from long range. And yet what was happening every game was that despite having the majority of possession, I either couldn't break down the opponents, or I just wasn't scoring enough and then the opponents hit me with a goal.

Any advice would be much appreciated, before I hurl the computer out of a window!

Matt

[Cleon]

I've edited the thread title because it was disrespectful for the other users of this forum and would have made them not want to help you, personal threads aren't allowed on the forums it is covered in the rules at the top of the forum. We have a PM system in place for that

[TimEdwins7]

Try both your Wingers on Support duty. I find that when I have an AML/R on Attack duty they often start too far up the pitch and then have little space to run into.

[Auqakuh]

Your problem is probably that your DLF(s) and Treq are ... doing exactly the same role, in exactly the same space, on paper at least. I'm sure they're as confused by that as I am.

But, after a little more thinking, I think I see what you're trying to do - the treq and the DLF(s), unless I'm mistaken, are meant to interchange and play through balls for each other or lay it off to the wingers and make runs into the box.

So... maybe switch from Retain Possession to Short Passing, I think, and also set "Pass Into Space". That should encourage through balls (from both the DLF and the T), as well as making your play a little less... lackadaisical.

Another possibility is setting one of the wingers up to be an inside forward instead of switching to Short Passing, to promote more attacking movement.

A further possibility is allowing more creative freedom (instead of all of the above) and depending on your players to see when they can break out of the ball retention cycle and be more penetrative.

[manreaction]

I've edited the thread title because it was disrespectful for the other users of this forum and would have made them not want to help you, personal threads aren't allowed on the forums it is covered in the rules at the top of the forum. We have a PM system in place for that

Apologies, was meant to be a light-hearted joke!

Your problem is probably that your DLF(s) and Treq are ... doing exactly the same role, in exactly the same space, on paper at least. I'm sure they're as confused by that as I am.

But, after a little more thinking, I think I see what you're trying to do - the treq and the DLF(s), unless I'm mistaken, are meant to interchange and play through balls for each other or lay it off to the wingers and make runs into the box.

So... maybe switch from Retain Possession to Short Passing, I think, and also set "Pass Into Space". That should encourage through balls (from both the DLF and the T), as well as making your play a little less... lackadaisical.

Another possibility is setting one of the wingers up to be an inside forward instead of switching to Short Passing, to promote more attacking movement.

A further possibility is allowing more creative freedom (instead of all of the above) and depending on your players to see when they can break out of the ball retention cycle and be more penetrative.

Ah, thanks - yeah, I was hoping that they would do exactly that... I was wondering also, if I changed my centre-forward to AF(a) but kept the trequartista behind, would having them both on 'attacking' mentality mean that the AF(a) would become isolated? I suppose I would then have to make the wingers have a support duty, otherwise all my front 4 would have attacking duties, and then that would isolate my 2 central midfielders too much.

Additionally is the Trequartista the best role for my AMC? I want a role, as you say, where he and the CF will feed off of each other, with both of them being goalscorers. Think Rooney and van Persie, I guess - Rooney plays further back than van Persie, but is still a great goalscorer. Would Enganche work better? I tried that before, and he didn't get me many goals in the season I played.

Try both your Wingers on Support duty. I find that when I have an AML/R on Attack duty they often start too far up the pitch and then have little space to run into.

Have tried that and it has sometimes worked, although I still don't score too many...

[Auqakuh]

Not really sure how to get the most out of Rooney this year, primarily as I sold him to Barcelona in my current game...

But the Enganche is a fairly static role, intended to, as the tooltip says, stay in place to be a creator, not a finisher. And since Rooney has the "comes deep" PPM, it's likely he ends up playing too deep to get forward far enough to score regularly. The same will apply no matter how you play him as an AM, unfortunately.

It might make more sense to deploy him as a treq up front alongside van Persie, or as a deep-lying forward on support, with van Persie as a complete forward on attack. That way, Rooney will create for van Persie, but van Persie should also create, to some extent, for Rooney, depending on their positions during the attacking phase. How well that will work I don't know, but a further possibility is to go for Rooney as a false 9 and again, van Persie as a complete forward. You could also set van Persie as a poacher, but that would be a waste as he'd be much less involved in play. That'll put Rooney's workrate to good use, while allowing him to come deep and link up play, but also to join the attack when he's not the one carrying the ball in the final third. If you do set him as a false 9, though, be sure to set him to "ease off tackles", or he may encounter disciplinary problems from the closing down he'll be doing. (Not a good idea to use him in that role if you don't press high up the pitch, either.)

Regardless of how you play him, have a look at his attributes - and his stats in games - and consider his weaknesses and strengths, and then think about how you can make sure he focuses on the strongest parts of his game with player instructions tweaks. It can make a huge difference.

[llama3]

Ok obvious issues:

• You have wing backs behind wingers - be careful, wing backs are generally suited to playing as lone wide players or behind those that hold position or cut inside - a winger is the type of player he is not designed to work with. He gets caught upfield, in the way of the winger, and exposes team defensively.
  
• You have a real lack of movement in central midfield, total dearth of forward runs.
  
• Predictable, symmetrical team - mix duties up more, maybe make left full back attack duty and left winger support duty? Or vice versa? Creates different movement and combinations.
  
• Single focal point in attack - DLF(S) - not exactly a predatory role
  
• Winger(Attack) should have someone in box to aim at as he attacks the byline - he doesnt - DLF too deep

If you are man utd - maybe try Rooney as AM(A) - he is very hardworking, a Treq or Enganche is neither. With van Persie a CF(S) - allows him to finish moves or create for Rooney. Rooney can sit more central without being relied upon as the main goal threat.

[m.u.f.c 1878]

What would be the best approach in setting a striker up in a 451,I have mine as dlf.I noticed you stated that's not wise, is it the same in a 451, with inside forwards?.

I know we're on about a different formation, but this caught my eye and have learnt a few things from these posts.

[LCFCEaves31]

I have started as Man Utd as well...

First few league and cup games, I was scrapping by with 1-0 wins or 1-1 draws, nothing exciting. Watched the games and realised I had no real movement... or when I did, they were just running into each other.

I have now found a lot more success, even against the 'bigger clubs' with this...

--------------GK----------------

-FB(auto) CB(bp) CB(d) WB(s)-

---------------------------------

--------BBM(s) DLP(d)---------

W(a)-----------------------IF(a)

----------- AP(a)--------------

-------------T(a)--------------

Rooney is sat as the Advanced playmaker and has specific instructions to be more expressive, because if he allowed to basically roam between the frontline and the midfield, he sets up 50-60% of my goals. Van Persie, although set a Trequestra, still seems to be in the right place at the right time and links well with Rooney in bringing in the wide men. This also then creates a bit of space on occasions for Fellaini (Box to Box) to make his way into the box and pick up lose balls to keep possession.

Last game against Tottenham, we won 3-0, first goal, was a one-two between van persie and Rooney, which is exactly what I wanted from the start, too move their back line. I seem to be able to get what I want more from this version of FM than what I did on FM13. I found it frustrating.

And as for possession, we had 69%, which against Tottenham, is pretty good, who were 2nd (I'm 3rd, playing a bit of catch up).

I don't know what other players would think of this system, but it is working for me... I like to pressure the opposition, keep the ball, but most importantly, even if I have no possession, is create decent opportunities... not LOADS of half chances.

[Auqakuh]

Rooney is sat as the Advanced playmaker and has specific instructions to be more expressive,

Out of curiousity, would you mind posting a heatmap from a match where he performed well? I'm curious about how he expressed that creativity in terms of positioning in the AM slot, where I've always found he drops far too deep and practically ends up in central midfield half the time (and thus can't get involved as much in the final third). Sounds like you're not having that problem though, but it could simply be because you play more direct than I tend to.

[manreaction]

Do you find any problems with having your front 4 all on attack duties?