Dr. Hook Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I hope this hasn't been asked already. Will this update still hold good for FM '15? Forgive if it has but I've been ill and away for a while and have not been able to keep up to date. While we can't know exactly what changes will occur in the FM15 match engine yet, it is safe to say that the basic principles Llama has outlined will hold true. Really, they worked in versions past too; if you knew how to tweak the sliders you could achieve this same thing. So, no, don't worry about this becoming irrelevant Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finknottle Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Thanks Dr. Hook. I didn't want to waste a lot of ink in printing them out if I didn't need to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Regards to getting the wide men to track back: will having them man mark wide men help? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Regards to getting the wide men to track back: will having them man mark wide men help? You have a few options, off the top of my head these include: 1. Start them from ML/R rather than AML/R 2. Choose Role / Duty carefully. A winger on Attack will clearly not get back as quickly as a Defensive Winger on Support. See what wide Role can be tuned best to behave like you want 3. Specific man marking on wide men works well, but you need to be aware of its impacts. When you defend, your wide men will track the AI wide men all the way down to your DL/R positions (depending on which side of the pitch the ball is on). As such, when you regain possession, they'll have a lot of ground to make up to support an attack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 You have a few options, off the top of my head these include:1. Start them from ML/R rather than AML/R 2. Choose Role / Duty carefully. A winger on Attack will clearly not get back as quickly as a Defensive Winger on Support. See what wide Role can be tuned best to behave like you want 3. Specific man marking on wide men works well, but you need to be aware of its impacts. When you defend, your wide men will track the AI wide men all the way down to your DL/R positions (depending on which side of the pitch the ball is on). As such, when you regain possession, they'll have a lot of ground to make up to support an attack OK Thankyou, I've updated my thread, could you take a look? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTHerringbone Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 OK Thankyou, I've updated my thread, could you take a look? Yep - done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 The fundamental issue is the players not being close together in the DM-DM-AM triangle. So you need to make up for this by: Making sure someone gets forward from the DM positions to link up Make sure the AMC can drop back to recieve and link Make sure your passing is more direct (that can simply be selecting an individual player role that is more likely to play in such a fashion, like a DLP) Your wing back's getting forward lots is a good way of offering outlets and link ups too Can I ask what role you'd play in the AMC to get him to drop back? is it just as simple as playing a A/P on a support duty? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 Can I ask what role you'd play in the AMC to get him to drop back? is it just as simple as playing a A/P on a support duty? Those 4 points are ideas, not necessarily a set of 4 rigid rules, but they are certainly useful. As for dropping deep, a Trequartista or Enganche can do that job too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Those 4 points are ideas, not necessarily a set of 4 rigid rules, but they are certainly useful. As for dropping deep, a Trequartista or Enganche can do that job too.[/quoteOK thank you. In my counter 4-2-3-1 system, I've changed my AM to a Trequartista, I've dropped my CM's back to DM strata. One is DLP-Defend, the other is a DM-Support. Upfront I've got a DLF-Support, as I'm asking them to be more direct with passing is a support duty up top a good idea? Also when you use counter do you always drop your CM's back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 I don't always drop them back due to things like positional familiarity etc, but it's the logical thing to do. You can have an attack duty up front if it is supported by players directly behind, so in your case, he is by the Trequartista. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 You have a few options, off the top of my head these include:1. Start them from ML/R rather than AML/R 2. Choose Role / Duty carefully. A winger on Attack will clearly not get back as quickly as a Defensive Winger on Support. See what wide Role can be tuned best to behave like you want 3. Specific man marking on wide men works well, but you need to be aware of its impacts. When you defend, your wide men will track the AI wide men all the way down to your DL/R positions (depending on which side of the pitch the ball is on). As such, when you regain possession, they'll have a lot of ground to make up to support an attack One wonders if this will be fixed for 15. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 One wonders if this will be fixed for 15. Fix what? It's not a bug. The issue is in FM users tend to use favour AML/AMR's but in real life the sides who have wide players track back tend to use ML/MR. It's the formations used that are the issue. People tend to forget that the shape you see on the tactic screen is the defensive shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
isignedupfornorealreason Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Fix what? It's not a bug. The issue is in FM users tend to use favour AML/AMR's but in real life the sides who have wide players track back tend to use ML/MR. It's the formations used that are the issue. People tend to forget that the shape you see on the tactic screen is the defensive shape. a) The game should point that out more clearly that formation = defensive shape. b) The game should point out more clearly that the top heavy amount of AM/R/L can play in the MR/L slots without too much hassle, leading to; c) There should be a more even distribution of players for the MR/L slots, just a personal view. And I honestly think there should be an option for those in the AM slots to track back as if they were in the M slots, an option to select which players stay forward if any, but I'm nitpicking on that option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 a) The game should point that out more clearly that formation = defensive shape.b) The game should point out more clearly that the top heavy amount of AM/R/L can play in the MR/L slots without too much hassle, leading to; c) There should be a more even distribution of players for the MR/L slots, just a personal view. And I honestly think there should be an option for those in the AM slots to track back as if they were in the M slots, an option to select which players stay forward if any, but I'm nitpicking on that option. I might be wrong but I think that is where marking comes in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaced33 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Fix what? It's not a bug. The issue is in FM users tend to use favour AML/AMR's but in real life the sides who have wide players track back tend to use ML/MR. It's the formations used that are the issue. People tend to forget that the shape you see on the tactic screen is the defensive shape. I think what a lot of people don't realise is that the AMR/L positions are actually forwards and you need to think of them in that way. They don't offer that much defensively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 I will be adding an update in the near future for P&C to account for the new roles in FM15. Also planning a few more small features too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOA Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 It's been said many times before and I'll say it again...Thank you! Fantastic guide and looking forward to the updated FM15 version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atmurauer Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I will be adding an update in the near future for P&C to account for the new roles in FM15. Also planning a few more small features too. just stumbled upon your guide, really awesome! since I also play Arsenal everytime this is incredible helpful for me! looking forward to the new version! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 --------------CF-a --------------Treq WP-a CM-s CM-d WP-a WB-s CD-d CD-d WB-s I've been messing around with this. While it's certainly been producing results, I feel like it's almost too narrow at times. I've been using the shorter passing TI so I might remove it as, if it hasn't changed, it has an effect on width. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 You could simply ask your team to play narrower? Or as your Wing Back's to play wider instead? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 You could simply ask your team to play narrower? Or as your Wing Back's to play wider instead? I ended up doing the latter. WBs have been getting a lot of assists lately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz13 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Read this on the way in to work this morning - fascinating read .. top work I asked this on another thread but is there a conflict if I set my forward to Trequartista and my AMC to an Enganche .. will they be in each others way or should the Treq drift to the wings a bit more often to avoid this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Read this on the way in to work this morning - fascinating read .. top work I asked this on another thread but is there a conflict if I set my forward to Trequartista and my AMC to an Enganche .. will they be in each others way or should the Treq drift to the wings a bit more often to avoid this. Answered in the other thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Any news on an update? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share Posted November 12, 2014 Working on it now. Hopefully by end of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Working on it now. Hopefully by end of the week. looking forward to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atmurauer Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Working on it now. Hopefully by end of the week. so awesome! really really appreciate your work with this! helped me a lot in my first season by adapting your guide to the fm15 with arsenal, but only could save a 4th spot after the bugged GK cost me so many matches before the hotfix they released earlier this week. looking really forward to this! very good stuff! thanks again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikSchierboom Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Working on it now. Hopefully by end of the week. Great! I just printed your PDF document and have been reading it eagerly. Already, I have been able to improve my tactics a lot by using your suggestions! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyFraser Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm working on a diamond with man united, does this have enough movement/defensive cover? Cwb cb cb cwb Dm (d) B2b (s) or dlp (s) - Roaming playmaker (s) Adv playmaker (a) with move into channels Complete fwd (s). Adv forward Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Looks sound. What about team instructions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aderow Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I've been thinking. Is there really that much of a difference between a Treq and an AP-a instructed to roam? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Trequartista still has more licence, and does not make off the ball forward runs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyFraser Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 My team instructions are shorter passing, work ball into box, play out of defence, exploit the middle, narrower, push higher up, close down more and higher tempo Also in my other tactic (4 3 3 with dm and an adv playmaker (a) and a roaming playmaker) what role suits di Maria better? I have kovacic aswell so was thinking kovacic roaming playmaker with di Maria adv playmaker or would the other way around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleuk8 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 how is the update going? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 how is the update going? Slowly - but I'm making progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldsy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 in regards to a 3 man midfield - I have a defensive midfielder and then a 2 man Cm pairing. Have used a DLP (s) and AP(a) In the past. However, has anyone used a RP (s) with an AP(a)? I would fear that they would go into the same space all the time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyFraser Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 For me personally I find the roaming playmaker finds little pockets of space away from the ap and reacts to his movement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollarn Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 in regards to a 3 man midfield - I have a defensive midfielder and then a 2 man Cm pairing. Have used a DLP (s) and AP(a) In the past. However, has anyone used a RP (s) with an AP(a)? I would fear that they would go into the same space all the time? I think it could work as long as they have space to operate in. It's basically what I think Barca has been playing with Xavi (RP) and Iniesta (AP). The key for it to work is to have runners and people that stretch the pitch around them. Players like Pedro, Sanchez, Neymar and Messi (even tho he likes to come from deep and get the ball at his feets). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgreenze Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'm going with a diamond formation with Liverpool, inspired by Gegenpressing, as follows: GK - Sweeper keeper attack RB - Wing back attack LB - Wing back attack CD - Stopper CD - Cover DM - Regista support MC - BWM defend MC - B2B support AMC - Tre attack ST - Complete forward support ST - Adv fwd attack Mentality - attacking, Fluidity - Very structured Team instructions - hassle, stay on feet, play out of defence, much higher def line, work into box, whip crosses Balance looks but not sure about the front 3? Any advice welcome... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Valhalla.. Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 This is a fantastic read llama3, thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
[sSn] Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Do we have an updated .pdf on Pairs & Combinations for fm15? We do have some new roles in fm15. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Hook Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 ;10007564']Do we have an updated .pdf on Pairs & Combinations for fm15? We do have some new roles in fm15. Llama has one in the works that will account for new roles and match engine changes for FM15. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broskoslov Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Thnx llama3 for the good read and for messing with my head Can I get some help, cant get it to work really? I still cant get my team to play nicely, and score goals. I guess i am playing with to many players behind the ball, but all changes i do, dont do anything. I am playing with Inter and lacking width/wingers, so I am playing a 5-3-2 like: CWB(A) - DC(S) - DC© - DC(S) - CWB(S) BWM - AP(A) - B2B DLF(s) - AF(A) I started out playing on CTRL mentality, but lately on Attacking which gives me a lot of shots on/off goal but hardly any goals. And I use Flexible shape. I have been replaying matches, changing my setup where my DC© becomes a Half Back (+ DC settings on 'defend') and moving my AP(A) up to pich just behind the forwards. All my changes didnt do much good (besides 1 very good win vs Juventus), and I am desperate for some advice. All matches I am (re)playing are played at home. Starting instructions are: - shorter passing - work ball in box - play out of defence - exploit the middle - roam from positions - close down more - use tighter marking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_e Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I see that you dont recommend using an AMC and ST on attack at the same time. Could you do that if keeping AML/R on support duties? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 Thnx llama3 for the good read and for messing with my head Can I get some help, cant get it to work really?I still cant get my team to play nicely, and score goals. I guess i am playing with to many players behind the ball, but all changes i do, dont do anything. I am playing with Inter and lacking width/wingers, so I am playing a 5-3-2 like: CWB(A) - DC(S) - DC© - DC(S) - CWB(S) BWM - AP(A) - B2B DLF(s) - AF(A) I started out playing on CTRL mentality, but lately on Attacking which gives me a lot of shots on/off goal but hardly any goals. And I use Flexible shape. I have been replaying matches, changing my setup where my DC© becomes a Half Back (+ DC settings on 'defend') and moving my AP(A) up to pich just behind the forwards. All my changes didnt do much good (besides 1 very good win vs Juventus), and I am desperate for some advice. All matches I am (re)playing are played at home. Starting instructions are: - shorter passing - work ball in box - play out of defence - exploit the middle - roam from positions - close down more - use tighter marking Central midfield looks a bit static is the biggest issue. You have 3 players who make forward runs "sometimes", none are busting a gut to get into advanced positions. Perhaps a CM(A) & AP(S) [or DLP, RP etc] could help instead of the AP(A) & BBM(S), by adding the directness but control of the ball. I see that you dont recommend using an AMC and ST on attack at the same time. Could you do that if keeping AML/R on support duties? You could, but to have the AML/R on support duties you need your full backs on attack duties to add the width and balance. You could use a Trequartista/Enganche & AF(A) at the same time, as they will still occupy different space. The forward needs to stay high and pull across the line though into channels and space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 i'm playing a 3 5 2 as suggested but want to use a AMC what role would you lose (Deep forward)? What role would you have the AMC play? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 well that would change your shape to a 3-4-1-2, and the risk with this, is that with lone wide men, your AMC becomes a single focal point for your attacks, and gets marked out of the game by a DMC. So with that in mind, I would suggest that you choose a Trequartista, so he pulls wide, so a DMC cannot find it as easy to mark him out of the game. Strike pairing is then up to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazbowski Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 well that would change your shape to a 3-4-1-2, and the risk with this, is that with lone wide men, your AMC becomes a single focal point for your attacks, and gets marked out of the game by a DMC. So with that in mind, I would suggest that you choose a Trequartista, so he pulls wide, so a DMC cannot find it as easy to mark him out of the game. Strike pairing is then up to you. I want to lose one of the front men fro an AMC so it would be 3 CB's 1 DM 2 WB 2 CM 1 AM and a lone striker.Do you have and suggestions on how to do this? I'm desperate for something to work as i've actually stopped playing the game due to my frustrations. I'm not a good tactician and I need help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Well with a back 3, you need your DM in front to be quite creative with the ball, otherwise you have too few real defensive players. A DLP or Regista is fairly essential in front of a back 3. A Trequartista as mentioned above is a good choice because he moves wide, but he will need someone to attack the space from deep, so a BBM or CM(A) is essential too. A good spread of duties is to use 3 defend, 4 support, 3 attack - creates a good balance in the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiomcnick Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Great job llama3, congratulation, your thread is absolutely brilliant. What do you think about new roles, specially a combination of a roaming playmaker and a box to box in a 4-2-3-1 with an advanced playmaker to attack in AM position? At moment i'm working on this 4-2-3-1 GK- defend WB R support WB L attack DC R cover DC L stopper MC R roaming playmaker ( who can be a DLP- defend, CM-defend or a Anchorman-defend when i need to retain the result or i face toughest opponents) MC L box to box AMR raumdeuter AM advanced playmaker attack AML inside forward support CF Complete forward (support or attack) or advanced forward Team instructions Flexible - Attack (Standard against toughest opponents) : Shorter passing,pass into space,play out of defence, run at defense,push higher up, close down more, get stuck in,be more expressive,roam from positions,higher tempo. thanks in advance mate, nice job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts