Fond Foat Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The strengths in my squad mean a 4-2-2-2 using defensive midfielders and attacking midfielders looks a good fit. Also, we are considered one of the top teams in the division, so I want to be a little more adventurous than I would usually be. The problem I have seen in the friendlies I have played is that we struggle to move the ball from the back 6 to the front 4 and generally look a little toothless. We also have been conceding a lot against better opposition I was thinking about asking my defensive line to push higher up to shorten the pitch a little, but my central defenders are not that quick. I do not seem to be able to get my complete wing back, regista, or enganche to perform how I envisioned them according to the role description either. Now, I know it is still just pre-season, but it would be great to get some comments on the formation in general and where people think it can be improved. Thanks The current Tactic is at Post #18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmufc Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 First off I'd search the old post for Uncle Sam's threads on the formation, they might be from older versions of the game but they are very insightful. Now onto your team, I'd play an anchorman next to your regista to help protect the backs and provide cover. I play a shadow striker next to an enganche with a false nine directly in front of the shadow striker. I find they provide a lot of movement which helps the enganche thrive and it also opens up space for the regista to move into from which point he can be more involved in the attack and really help recycle possession. I'd also switch your fb to a wb, it'll provide more of an attacking option down the right, and provide some much needed width. Another thing to look at is your fluidity, with so many specialized roles I'd switch to rigid or very rigid. When playing better teams I'd play counter mentality, the way the formation is setup you will still have players forward that will punish the opposition, you also get men back behind the ball making you harder to break down. If you do decide to push up you could always switch to a sweeter keeper to compensate for lack of pace from your central defenders, I find though that the anchor man will usually close down teams trying to build through you and the central defenders can usually deal with the long clearances in the air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Thanks madmufc. I originally used a DM defend next to my regista but felt that restricted movement into the midfield. I would be concerned that an anchor man may result in not enough options coming through the middle. I imagine if my complete wing back and full back get more involved that may overcome the doubt I have. I also thought about a shadow striker as well. Again, my only concerns is that we would be left with three players all very high up the pitch and there would not be a strong link between the defensive midfield and the attacking midfield. I do have a player who looks like he would be an exceptional shadow striker. If the regista becomes more effective, it would also make this seem a worthwhile experiment to try. Full back to wing back is something I wanted to do. What held me back is that my player is not suited to the wing back role at all and does not have much pace. I may instead keep him as a full back but ask him to get further forward. I am not confident my keeper can be a sweeper keeper as his pace and acceleration are very poor. He is a great stay at home one on one keeper. I do actually switch to rigid before the game starts. I have to admit I have not been happy with rigid as the players do not seem to have that individual spark I am looking for. I am thinking of moving perhaps to fluid therefore toning down the individual roles a little into more of a team ethic. The counter mentality may be worth trying for sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 Changes so far: AM Support to Shadow Striker Attack Deep Lying Forward Support to Defensive Midfielder Defend Added "Get further forward" instruction to the right full back. Counter / Rigid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmufc Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I've found that the anchor man actually opens up my middle for me allowing the regista more freedom to move forward. The movement I see a lot is the ball being played to the central defender, the anchor man is the short option while the regista pushes further forward to link play with the attacking mids, my enganche is on the opposite side and so after the regista receives the ball he is an option. The shadow striker does tend to end up in the box, but with the false nine in front of him there is usually one of them a little deeper to be a passing option, I usually only see them both in the box when the ball goes wide, otherwise they are constantly seeking space. One thing you could do with the full back to accommodate for the lack of pace is to set his instructions to cross from deep, that will stop him from getting too far forward and not being able to recover. I actually switched from rigid to very rigid midway through last season and was happy with the results. It tightened it up at the back,while keeping the attacking movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I've removed the link from the opening post. You can only link if it exists on here too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 No worries Cleon. I think the picture above probably explains things well enough. Will play a couple of games with the above changes and see if we improve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Presidente Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The original idea behind this tactic is the 2 DM's just defend along with obviously the 2 DCs creating a box of 4. A little like the ice hockey short-handed passive box. The attacking strength comes not from the AMs but the FBs who have full license to bomb forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 I have to agree with you El Presidente. I think I have been focusing too much on the link between the defensive midfield and the attacking midfield. I have decided to put more emphasis on both fullbacks, and simplify the other roles. We have still not won a friendly, but out last two games have been better. The main changes were to simply the roles of the players inside and to put more emphasis on my full backs as being the creative force. My defensive midfielders responsibility is to defend and cover as my full backs move right up the pitch on both sides. The four players up front will look to find dome space and get bodies into the box to put pressure on the opposition. Current Individual Instructions GK – Take quick throws. DL/DR – Stay wider, Cross more often. Get further forward. DCL/DCR – None. DMCL – Close down more. DMCR – Dribble more. AMCL – Dribble less, Hold up the ball. AMCR – Get further forward. STCL – Move into channels. STCR – Shoot less often, pass it shorter, tackle harder. We have not been able to get out tactical fluidity high though, so this may hamper us at the beginning of the season. http://godsoflowerleagues.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/006.jpg A disappointing pre-season in terms of results on the pitch. We did not pick up a win and generally did not look very comfortable in any game. I am hoping this will change when the real deal kicks off and I do believe we have enough quality in the side to have a successful season. http://godsoflowerleagues.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/07.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocolatecoatedballs Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Hi Fond Foat, I too have been thinking about a 4222, but with wide strikers, in the end I found it difficult and am about to try a 424 strikerless and see if I can't get the team playing like I want. _____________________GK/D FB/A__________DC/C________DC/D_________FB/S ______________DLP/S________En/S WM/S_______False9/A_______AP/S_________IF/A Sorry if this has no relevance and I haven't tested it to be truthfull, I will get back to you if you like if I can make it play like the 4222 wit wide strikers that I envisige. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Are two defensive midfielders really capable of closing up gaps on the flanks AND defend the central space? I find it difficult to stop tactics with offensive wingers using narrow 4222. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 We just lost 3-0 to a team tipped to challenge for the title with us. Stats: http://godsoflowerleagues.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/013.jpg Goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xBHom02zg14 Generally we sta too deep for my liking. I think I will ask the defensive line to push up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneronaldo Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Your flanks are quite bare, and to be honest asking your two full backs to cover the length for 90 minutes of the game without much help from your other players will lead to them being overloaded. You need your center backs to spread out and this is where the Half Back comes in, he drops into the defence and allows your two CBs to spread and cover the gaping holes left by your CWBs. And I see something abit conflicting in the team instructions, you want the team to play narrow, but exploit the flanks at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted December 2, 2013 Author Share Posted December 2, 2013 Oneronaldo. the half-back could be a good call, and I a will look at that. The play narrow but exploit the flanks shouts do not conflict but ask the team to keep the ball narrow while looking to play it out wide when the opportunity arises. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneronaldo Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Fair enough, compact to prevent teams playing through you then springing the counter through the flanks, not a bad idea. Would be interesting to see how it plays out on the ME though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizaum Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Fond Foat, I'm also trying to play the 4-2DM-2AM-2, due to have good AMs and lacking a RW. I read your post and here are my impressions: My main concern was connecting the DMs to the AMs. And I found that the Regista helps a lot with this. When I paired him with a Anchorman, it wasn't very balanced, as the A would drop too deep (and far from the AMs) and the R would go forward. The most success I've had was pairing him with a DM-D. I think you could have a BW-S replacing the R, as he also stays a little higher. I also wanted that at least one of the AM wouldn't be too offensive, getting toO far from DMs and too near the STs. I'm using a PM-S (I think it could be a AM-S too, although I like the fact that the PM comes back a little more) paired with a T-A. Up front, TM, AF, CF or maybe DLP-S. I'm also trying to be careful using deep strikers (F9 and shadow striker proved to be desastrous). Another thing, I'm only using one CWB-A. The other one is WB-S. I think the team stays more balanced. So far, I'm doing pretty well. But I'm playing in Brazil, where the regular 4-2-2-2 is the most predominant formation. I tend to be extracareful against teams with offensive wingers, maybe having to change the formation. This is my formation: -||CF-S||AF-A||- -||PM-S||T-A||- ---------------- -||DM-D||R-S||- CWB-A||CB-D||CB-D||WB-S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizaum Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I think that what oneronaldo is proposing is the false 3-5-2. It's pretty common here in Brazil. The FBs are so offensive, that the CBs spread out and you have one DM to drop back and form a 3-man line. But, I must say I would try this with a 4-1-2-1-2 instead of a 4-2-2-2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 I am switching to a 4-1-2-1-2 at the moment. I think the 4-2-2-2 can work but I just wasn't having any joy. Currently using: http://godsoflowerleagues.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/01newtactic.png?w=545&h=588 Now I need to convert chances as the statistics from my 1-0 loss to Leixoes show: http://godsoflowerleagues.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/06.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizaum Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 You shouldn't give up man. I'm doing really well with mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fond Foat Posted December 7, 2013 Author Share Posted December 7, 2013 It's great you got it to work. I think my lack of pace was hindering the formation. Using the 4-1-2-1-2 I just picked up a 5-2 win away! http://godsoflowerleagues.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/11.jpg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEDHRMHYvE0&list=UUm2g-OFdFmAPgH1Q3-NTtwA&feature=player_embedded Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
llama3 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Starting to get some joy then Fond Foat? In general you seem to be building fairly well constructed tactics, so you'll get it right sooner rather than later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazm Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Fond Foat,I'm also trying to play the 4-2DM-2AM-2, due to have good AMs and lacking a RW. I read your post and here are my impressions: My main concern was connecting the DMs to the AMs. And I found that the Regista helps a lot with this. When I paired him with a Anchorman, it wasn't very balanced, as the A would drop too deep (and far from the AMs) and the R would go forward. The most success I've had was pairing him with a DM-D. I think you could have a BW-S replacing the R, as he also stays a little higher. I also wanted that at least one of the AM wouldn't be too offensive, getting toO far from DMs and too near the STs. I'm using a PM-S (I think it could be a AM-S too, although I like the fact that the PM comes back a little more) paired with a T-A. Up front, TM, AF, CF or maybe DLP-S. I'm also trying to be careful using deep strikers (F9 and shadow striker proved to be desastrous). Another thing, I'm only using one CWB-A. The other one is WB-S. I think the team stays more balanced. So far, I'm doing pretty well. But I'm playing in Brazil, where the regular 4-2-2-2 is the most predominant formation. I tend to be extracareful against teams with offensive wingers, maybe having to change the formation. This is my formation: -||CF-S||AF-A||- -||PM-S||T-A||- ---------------- -||DM-D||R-S||- CWB-A||CB-D||CB-D||WB-S Could you post a pic of your team+ settings? I have a 4222 box (2mc's instead of amc's) with Internacional. Going decent in the Gaucho championships but I'm having trouble getting my 2 mc's involved. Might try 2 amc's, got Otavio and Mattheus so that would be nice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid Cool Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Oneronaldo. the half-back could be a good call, and I a will look at that. The play narrow but exploit the flanks shouts do not conflict but ask the team to keep the ball narrow while looking to play it out wide when the opportunity arises. My understanding of the "play narrower/wider" is that they affect the shape of the formation based on its starting narrowness/width, but not where the passing should be focused - that's what "exploit the middle/flanks" is for. You'd then be able to create combinations of the two types of instructions - for example: stretch your formation with "play wider" to create more space in the middle of the pitch for an "exploit the middle" instruction. You already have a very narrow formation. Wouldn't the "play narrower" tell your team to narrow the formation even more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizaum Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Kazm, I did not tweak anything on team settings, just fluid or rigid and control, attacking, etc... I started to have a bad time in the league, and tried a 4-5-1 that was much better. I've been using this ever since. It's kind of hard to use 2 MCs in Brazil because the players supposed to do that are better AMCs than MCs. My advice is to try the 2DM-2AMC thing. It works just fine against 4-2-2-2 and 3-5-2. Just beware of teams that use 4-2DM-1MC-2W-1. Your AMCs get stuck on their DMs and your FBs are way too attacking, leaving space behind for their Ws. If you're gonna try, keep in mind that one of your DMs has go a little forward (regista, BWM-S, etc), on the opposite side of at least one FB (WB-A or CWB) to give balance and one or both of the AMCs have to come back a little. Having one AP-S helps a lot on this. It's a pretty complicated puzzle to get the whole team balanced and spaced out. And I can't really say I've mastered it. Please come back and tell us the results if you do try. Internacional has a fantastic squad, but then again, I think the Brazilian league is the hardest in the game. It's very balanced. Just out of example, in real life, last year's champions Fluminense got relegated to 2nd div yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazm Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Thanks. I switched to 2 AMC's, using Alex as AP-s and Otavio as TQ for now. Otavio isn't doing very well so far. Score of around 6.7 only, Forlan and Damiao both score a decent amount of times but the rest of the team just doesn't score. It just seems really hard in FM14 to create movement on the midfield in a 4222 box tactic. It seemed easier in FM13. Internacional definately have some great players but also some oldies and some players that require some improvement. I'm not expected to win anything yet so there's not a lot of pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thizaum Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Kazm, I've been thinking about this lately. Do you think a TQ is appropriate in this formation? He'd have a player beside him and 2 up front. I don't think a lot of movement helps. How about enganche or AM on offensive duty? Where is Dalessandro? He'd be the perfect AP-s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kazm Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Kazm,I've been thinking about this lately. Do you think a TQ is appropriate in this formation? He'd have a player beside him and 2 up front. I don't think a lot of movement helps. How about enganche or AM on offensive duty? Where is Dalessandro? He'd be the perfect AP-s. Hm dunno if an Enganche wouldn't be too static, especially against teams with 2 dmcs. Might try some other roles though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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