What on earth is happening here??

[reece1973]

I am fed up with up to 4 of my players at times chasing after 1 opposing player.

And players positioning all over the place.

Whats going on?????

Goalkeeper was about to take a goal kick. Presume my right back is out of sight but in correct position. Yet i have 2 players holding hands

Positioning all over the place when West Brom attack

3 Spurs players chasing down 1 West Brom

4 players chase 1 West Brom

[kandersson]

first screen I'd say that DLP tends to come deep and make himself available to receive the pass early in the build up of the play.

Other screens look quite weird actually... I'd assume the low familiarity of the tactic might cause some problems? or just blame ME which is what I tend to do most of the time

[tieio]

I've seen this, using stick to positions and stand off opponents helped it until the familiarity with the tactic was improved, assuming you have a low familiarity. I also gave my wing backs individual instructions to close down less.

[Falahk]

most of those are probably a side effect from using hassle opponent and an attacking mentality, to me it kinda look like the players are doing what you are telling them to do

[bababooey]

Yeah I think hassle opponents would be the culprit here.. I have a similar thread going about CD's closing down and leaving gaps. I am pretty sure I had hassle opponents going during that match, but I'm not positive. (I wish there was a way to go back and see what the instructions were during X point in a match)

[reece1973]

Since when has hassle opponents meant 4 players have to go charging after 1 player.

[bababooey]

Hassle Opponents means the entire team will commit to closing down and pressing the opposition. I think it's reasonable to assume that if a player has the ball, lets say.. out wide, that multiple players will come to try and win it back. It's similar to if you watch Barca and they press as a unit. It's usually more than just 1-1 pressing.

[noikeee]

Bug tbh. I've seen that before, where a central defender decides to go off his position to go mark a player down the line, who is already being marked by the full-back.

I don't like your front 4 all on attack duties, but that shouldn't have any input into these awful decisions by your backline.

[reece1973]

Ive seen Barca hassle opponents and it looks great but you dont see 3 or more players go charging after 1 player.

[bababooey]

I think it's safe to say that FM cannot replicate the real game to a tee, and this may be one of those circumstances.

[reece1973]

I think it's safe to say that FM cannot replicate the real game to a tee, and this may be one of those circumstances.

Somewhere mildly close to replicating it would be nice

[reece1973]

Seems taking off the hassle opponents doesnt help either. Again 4 against 1.

[wwfan]

I don't see an issue in any of these pictures. In each one, you have a player advantage in the target area, so a multiple press is perfectly safe. If the opposition had more players up, then I suspect you'd have more players prioritising marking duties.

[noikeee]

That makes some sense for some of those cases, but not for the last picture in his first post - 3 opposition players sitting in miles of space just outside of the area, all that the guy under pressure needs to do is pass it back for a huge chance.

Admitedly defenders do make some marking mistakes but a top level team won't let that many guys completely unmarked. Even in a formation of 4-2-the-rest-don't-defend, on hassle opponents shout.

[reece1973]

Seems to me that whatever i do nothing changes.

Take off Hassle Opponents

Add Stand off

Add Stick to Position

[bieritarier]

I don't see an issue in any of these pictures. In each one, you have a player advantage in the target area, so a multiple press is perfectly safe. If the opposition had more players up, then I suspect you'd have more players prioritising marking duties.

in the last 2 pictures form the first post a relatively simple pass (does not have to be accurate) will have spurs in all kinds of trouble. And in 5 out of 10 cases that'S exactly what will happen. In 3 more the attacking player will lose the ball. And in another 2 more the player will turn his back at all 4 defenders and wait until he is fouled.

The problem isn't just with the sheer amount of numbers of players going for the dribbler, its the angle at which they come at him. They are, without exception not closing down in a way that prevents the attacker to get off a pass to a team mate left open. What'S worse is that players will often ignore their tight marking instructions (including mark specific player!) to press an opponent that will get a perfect passing angle at the player that is being left alone by the "presser". And that includes your last line of defense (the CBs) leaving stikers unmarked and clear on goal.

I have learnt a lot from reading your great guides, but if you, or anyone at SI think that this behavior is ok I should check when Berlusconi became pope!

[wwfan]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see how the ball carrier in either of those pictures can make a relatively simple pass to an open player. In the first he'd have to swivel 180 degrees. In the second, 90 degrees. In both instances the swivel would be towards the defenders, who'd get a foot in.

I'm not saying that situations like this should happen by default, but I don't see them as OMG!!! ME SUCKS!!!

[bieritarier]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see how the ball carrier in either of those pictures can make a relatively simple pass to an open player. In the first he'd have to swivel 180 degrees. In the second, 90 degrees. In both instances the swivel would be towards the defenders, who'd get a foot in.

I'm not saying that situations like this should happen by default, but I don't see them as OMG!!! ME SUCKS!!!

didn't say the ME sucks, far from it,but it has a fair amount of flaws. Where pressing was not aggressive enough in some cases pre patch it has now gone a bit over the top.

And sorry to say it, but looking at my defenders they rarely properly stick a foot in when a player turns. I'm seeing it way too often that a player runs into one of my guys, turns, waits and is then either fouled or easily lays it off to a team mate running into position. If players would be better in making use of their numerical advantage in a heavy press like this then at least it wouldn't be so much of an issue. However, in my experience they don't.

[Ifail]

I too keep seeing this ( if you put stick to position you end up wide players not following the inside forwards and the central defends getting overloaded decides to rush the inside forwards who are charging with the ball which lets the striker free hence goal OR the my cd try and tackle successfully which lead to a pass to strike then goal) grr frustration

edit spelling

[reece1973]

How often would this happen in reality????

And wwfan are you telling me in this day and age that players are not capable of swivelling 90 degrees?

Its not only 4 on 1 that is doing my head in, its also my players positioning being all over the place. Even if i tell them to Stick to Position.

Its as bad as telling them No long shots and still having 10 per game

[bababooey]

Off the top of my head I can think of some instances IRL where this sort of thing actually has happened in games. Just from watching highlights of matches / goals scored we see defense get pulled all over the place at times. I think it's only natural actually. Of course there are also instances of teams doing REALLY well to stay compact and everything, too. But I keep looking at your SS's and for example in the last one you posted your defense looks absolutely fine to me. If anything you're in a great position to win the ball back. Also in the 2nd to last SS, where the West Brom players aren't even getting into the box from deep. They aren't really a threat at that point are they?

In terms of team instructions though, perhaps it just isn't fluid? Maybe your team is not doing what you'd like being your playing "control" which DOES = a higher bit of closing down / pressing / etc.

I mean if you were playing.. "defensive", would we see 3 guys gang up on one west brom player? Perhaps not. As they might be more inclined to stand off and defend deep.

[wwfan]

How often would this happen in reality????

And wwfan are you telling me in this day and age that players are not capable of swivelling 90 degrees?

Its not only 4 on 1 that is doing my head in, its also my players positioning being all over the place. Even if i tell them to Stick to Position.

Its as bad as telling them No long shots and still having 10 per game

Why do people read one thing and see something else? The players can't turn to hit the "easy" pass because the turn would be towards the pressers and they'd lose the ball. That's a completely different thing than not being able to turn full stop.

And, as bababooey says, it happens in reality more often than you'd think.

[reece1973]

Why do people read one thing and see something else? The players can't turn to hit the "easy" pass because the turn would be towards the pressers and they'd lose the ball. That's a completely different thing than not being able to turn full stop.

And, as bababooey says, it happens in reality more often than you'd think.

Same as why people do not like it when you disagree with them i guess.

If you actually look at the pictures there is plenty of room for them to play an easy pass.

[NDavis95]

Do you have players set to mark tighter?

[wwfan]

Same as why people do not like it when you disagree with them i guess.

If you actually look at the pictures there is plenty of room for them to play an easy pass.

There isn't because the player is facing the wrong direction and is moving at pace or already committed to the cross. It's as clear as day.

[jimbo22]

This is the exact type of problem that i'm seeing. Id say this is poor player AI rather than a bug or that old gem "tactics". I've posted in the 14.1.4 thread in General Discussion abut seeing instances of players being dragged all over the place to be in positions that wouldnt seem right in real football.

Here's a image I took during a game, I've posted it a few times and I dont think one person has commented on it.

This is the computer with an attacking throw in. This is purely poor AI, there's no bad tactic that can be set up to allow 3 attacking players to all freely get possession of that ball. Infact the best marking in that image is by the referee on the #4. I'm seeing a lot of instances on dead balls where player set up is poor and a lot of the time it leads to losing a goal.

[reece1973]

There isn't because the player is facing the wrong direction and is moving at pace or already committed to the cross. It's as clear as day.

moving at pace hahaha.

[Cleon]

moving at pace hahaha.

If your just going to mock then I'll close the thread and you can continue to struggle. wwfan raised valid points which you have no comeback for.

[reece1973]

If your just going to mock then I'll close the thread and you can continue to struggle. wwfan raised valid points which you have no comeback for.

excuse me but others have agreed with having the same problem as well.

just because your both mods doesnt give you the right to say 'i have no comeback for'. Or push people around.

how do you know they are moving at pace??

[RTHerringbone]

excuse me but others have agreed with having the same problem as well.

just because your both mods doesnt give you the right to say 'i have no comeback for'. Or push people around.

how do you know they are moving at pace??

Post the .pkm and then we can end the speculation.

[Cleon]

excuse me but others have agreed with having the same problem as well.

just because your both mods doesnt give you the right to say 'i have no comeback for'. Or push people around.

how do you know they are moving at pace??

We aren't pushing people around, but if you are going to be dismissive then the thread is pointless and will be closed. It's your choice.

If you read what wwfan said he actually said;

There isn't because the player is facing the wrong direction and is moving at pace or already committed to the cross. It's as clear as day.

He said or. Without actually seeing the PKM he can't give a definite answer but the answer is one of these.

Are you going to upload the PKM for us to take a look at?

[reece1973]

No because i dont have it.

This is a forum for people's opinions, and its bound to have dismissive comments all over the forum.

How can it be 'clear as day' when there is no PKM to look at. The player could be moving at snail pace. He could have no intention of crossing.

[RTHerringbone]

No because i dont have it.

If you have the same save game, you can go back to that fixture and create a .pkm.

[Cleon]

No because i dont have it.

This is a forum for people's opinions, and its bound to have dismissive comments all over the forum.

How can it be 'clear as day' when there is no PKM to look at. The player could be moving at snail pace. He could have no intention of crossing.

Not in this forum, if people are dismissive they don't get the time of day, regulars etc won't help or get involved with discussions. We have a very good community in here.

He said or he could be already committed to the cross. So he might not be moving at great speed but he could be committed to the cross instead, but either way it is one of these things happening you can clearly see it in the screenshot.

It's a shame you don't have the PKM though so we can show you exactly what happened. This isn't a problem though because you say it happens all the time, so you should be able to upload it happening again quite easy

[reece1973]

Tighter Marking ticked and there are 3 Barnet players in space when they attack.

Player on the ball swivels 180 degrees and plays the ball back which nullifys the 2 players marking him and its easy to be carved open.

[I<3AFC]

Tighter Marking ticked and there are 3 Barnet players in space when they attack.

Player on the ball swivels 180 degrees and plays the ball back which nullifys the 2 players marking him and its easy to be carved open.

I don't think it would be as easy as you think. If he swivels and hits that ball another 30 yards behind him then your players have time to adjust also you have 4 spare defenders in the centre so you have plenty of cover to press the ball or to drop back and sit deep. You have 2 players in the 18 yard box against the one barnet striker one of which can go out to cover the opposite opposition winger should the ball got all the way through then you have the three players outside the area who can either press those 3 free barnet men or cover the 2 defenders should the barnet player turn into a messi look-a-like. Also, you have a player in the centre circle who can easily drop back onto any of the 4 spare barnet players. So tbf i wouldn't be too worried in that situation unless those 2 defenders get beaten by the man with the ball.

[Cleon]

Screenshots can be misleading when they show 1 snippet of play and you can't view the full passage of play. Upload the PKM please.

[RTHerringbone]

I don't see any big issue there?

The ball carrier is tracked by a full back and a team mate.

No other Barnet player is in immediate, dangerous areas.

If the ball carrier spins and passes, who is in a position to "carve open" Spurs?

You know what happened as you played the game, why not post the answer?

Incidentally, Tight Marking still relies on zonal proximity, and appears to be working fine in that image.

[Caesarius]

I feel your pain bro...

I know because it happens to me 6-8 times each match.

I was tempted to write about it but know what?

I bought this game to play and enjoy it, as always, not to spend my time trying to prove something isnt working as intended on the ME.

My guess is some people are actually being paid for that job.

[Cleon]

I feel your pain bro...

I know because it happens to me 6-8 times each match.

I was tempted to write about it but know what?

I bought this game to play and enjoy it, as always, not to spend my time trying to prove something isnt working as intended on the ME.

My guess is some people are actually being paid for that job.

But if its not happening to everyone it can be hard to pin point. The fact that you say this is happening but won't write about it or provide the required info is why some bugs still exist in the game because you'd rather spend 5 minutes replying with nonsense than making people aware of it. The more examples SI have then the chances are they can tell if something is a bug or not. Nothing I've seen in this thread so far proves anything is an issue though and the fact that the above issues aren't accompanied with PKM's I'll stick to saying nothing is wrong until someone proves otherwise visually and not from a screenshot. The full passage of play is important to understand why players are positioned like they are etc.

[reece1973]

He swivels and 2 quick passes between team mates and the man at the top of the screen has the ball.

Walker is not marking him because hes ball watching ala Antonio Valencia against Everton the other night.

Luckily he misses his chance and puts it wide of the post.

[Cleon]

He swivels and 2 quick passes between team mates and the man at the top of the screen has the ball.

Walker is not marking him because hes ball watching ala Antonio Valencia against Everton the other night.

Luckily he misses his chance and puts it wide of the post.

One more time, are you going to upload the PKM or not?

[RTHerringbone]

He swivels and 2 quick passes between team mates and the man at the top of the screen has the ball.

Walker is not marking him because hes ball watching ala Antonio Valencia against Everton the other night.

Luckily he misses his chance and puts it wide of the post.

If the worst thing about that passage of play, is that it mirrors something that happened in real life football a few days ago, then is there actually a problem?!

[Steve Odom]

He swivels and 2 quick passes between team mates and the man at the top of the screen has the ball.

Walker is not marking him because hes ball watching ala Antonio Valencia against Everton the other night.

Luckily he misses his chance and puts it wide of the post.

I still wonder if there is an actual question in this whole thread. I haven't seen a contribution to general tactical knowledge, nor a question asking for help. So may I ask you about the purpose?

[wwfan]

No because i dont have it.

This is a forum for people's opinions, and its bound to have dismissive comments all over the forum.

How can it be 'clear as day' when there is no PKM to look at. The player could be moving at snail pace. He could have no intention of crossing.

It's known as having experience of reading the ME. There's a reason why we get asked to mod the tactics forum you know. There's also a reason for my moderator title.

[tennisball]

just because your both mods doesnt give you the right to say 'i have no comeback for'. Or push people around.

For someone who has made over 500 posts that's remarkably naive. Almost every thread asking for help (in the right way) gets some extremely helpful advice from the experienced posters (some are mods, some aren't), surely you have noticed this.

The fact that they are mods has very little to do with it, it's the sheer volume of their tactical knowledge and experience that makes their opinions worthwhile.

On top of this is the fact that many of the mods have been involved in behind the scenes work and testing of various aspects of the ME. As wwfan points out, there may well be a reason why he is the Tactics and Match Engine Mod (and it's not so that he gets to close threads or 'push you around'...).

[reece1973]

Give someone a title and it goes to their head.

Tennisball he can have the pleasure of closing this thread now. Seeings as you cannot disagree with people.