Mid Season Struggle and Set Piece Nightmares

[LCFCEaves31]

Hello all

I have a few things I would like advice on, so bear with me.

Started a game with Bury in League 2. I want slow-ish football, taking our time, waiting for a clear cut chance. Set up with Counter mentality, shorter passing, just so we keep the ball and try limit the opposition to many chances. In this league, most people would go more direct I guess, but I don't like it that way.

The Bury squad isn't the greatest to be honest, even though the board want play offs. They also had a lot of players on loan on big wages, so I was limited to who I loaned in or bought.

All was going well, we were 3rd after 15 games. We were playing exactly how I envisaged. I must admit, at times it was frustrating to watch because we didn't always create much, but enough to win 1-0, 2-0 etc. On occasions, we would get caught on counter attack , but most the goals we concede are from set pieces.

In March and we have won only 5 of our last 15 games. Same tactic, stuck to our game plan, but my god, we cannot defend set pieces... every corner or free kick causes panic. It's horrible to watch!

One game, we lost away at Chesterfield 6-3 ... 5 goals we conceded were from set pieces.

I no, I no, train on def. set pieces. I must have done this for 75% of our match preps, because even when we were winning, we were letting in goals from set plays.

What else can I do? I cannot buy anyone at present. Big centre backs with good heading the answer come the end of the season?? That is if I have my job.

My other main concern is letting in goals within the first 5 minutes. In fact the first 3 minutes is more accurate. Morale is not at its highest, but I do not go mad at them if we lose, because we are still playing ok.

My formation by the way is below:

=GK=

CWB(A) CD(D) CD(D) CWB(A)

BBM(S) DLP(D)

W(A) AP(S) IF(S)

DLF (S)

So the last question... would you change anything from above? I must say, all the roles above, I do have players that suit it, so I am in a way playing to their strengths role wise.

I cannot understand how I have gone from good solid displays / form, to leaking goals left right and centre.

Sorry it is a lot of text and more than one question, but I am desperate to make sure I do not rage quit like I did so often in FM13!!

Thanks.

[LCFCEaves31]

Just played another game. Out passed the opponent, but could we score?? No... and they get a free kick on the right... you guessed it, goal! Their only attempts at goal came from set pieces... seriously, this is happening every game now. I can understand there being days like this, but it is just ridiculous. Is there a bug in the system at the moment??

My assistant I am sure is trying to wind me up. Every game " we are conceding too many chances at set plays, we must work on this for future"... I have done this for the past 5 games!!! What more can I do?!?

Much more of this and I wont have to bother with a rage quit as I will get sacked the laptop will be going through the nearest window.

[bababooey]

Well the set pieces I cannot really speak to, as I haven't noticed anything glaringly awful about them. Do you change your players positioning for them? Generally speaking you'd want your full backs at the posts, your CD's marking the tall players, the striker staying up the field, and everyone else man marking. Or you could keep the striker in the box, and send an attacking mid up the field for a counter.

Most likely if you're in March teams are starting to adjust to your reputation / form and play differently. So you need to figure out if they're sitting back, or if they're really coming after you. Depends on home/away, too.

Considering your roles and choice of formation... You say you've got Bury in league 2, perhaps not a 4-2-3-1 team? The 4-2-3-1 is an aggressive formation (hence 3 attacking midfielders + the striker + 2 CM's and nobody in the DM strata) For a 4-2-3-1 to work the fullbacks and center mids are critical. Perhaps the box2box midfielder is being caught out? And perhaps your wingbacks are pushing too high up the pitch? This can cause all sorts of trouble. I am sure you picked a 4-2-3-1 based on your players at hand, which I totally understand, but it may not be the best formation for sitting back and being patient.

Remember even Arsenal, who use a 4-2-3-1 IRL, have to press. They didn't press against City and gave up 6 goals, if they had pressed they could have prevented many of those 6 goals, as Fernandinho was clear all day in central midfield for City, Yaya Toure as well.

So if you do want to play a slow, counter mentality, then perhaps drop the AML/AMR to ML/MR and go with a Moyes-ish 4-4-1-1. It got him a lot of praise at Everton for 10 years playing that way, very cautious and rigid.

But if you can only do a small change at first, I would immediately get rid of "CWB". Change them to fullback on support. Maybe use 1 attack 1 support. And change the B2M to something more static like CM-S. That should help tighten things up.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

Set Pieces can be limited as always by limiting the amount of people who are "held back". I honestly think the default set ups, don't do any favours and have never used them, for me the one-for-one set up is restrictive. (i.e. for every one you set forward or back the AI will match.)

For corners, you can simply limit the amount of players in the box by progressively setting more and more players to stay forward. I think the most that can safely be done is the Striker, Attacking Midfielder and one winger with the other set on the edge of the box. The AI will then hold back several players to 'contain' them, you will lose out on some corners this way, it's an aerial battle after all, but in some cases the ball is headed away to the winger on the edge of the box, cleared to the winger up on the half way line and you've got a counter on straight away.

For defensive set pieces, much the same; Striker stays up, attacking midfielder stays up, and the wingers set to the 'wall' instead. This makes less of your team go back, meaning the AI plays conservative and holds back player to defend the counter, which, if you pull off they can't really do anything about anyway.

Otherwise, defensive set piece focusing is the way to go.

[LCFCEaves31]

Well the set pieces I cannot really speak to, as I haven't noticed anything glaringly awful about them. Do you change your players positioning for them? Generally speaking you'd want your full backs at the posts, your CD's marking the tall players, the striker staying up the field, and everyone else man marking. Or you could keep the striker in the box, and send an attacking mid up the field for a counter.

Most likely if you're in March teams are starting to adjust to your reputation / form and play differently. So you need to figure out if they're sitting back, or if they're really coming after you. Depends on home/away, too.

Considering your roles and choice of formation... You say you've got Bury in league 2, perhaps not a 4-2-3-1 team? The 4-2-3-1 is an aggressive formation (hence 3 attacking midfielders + the striker + 2 CM's and nobody in the DM strata) For a 4-2-3-1 to work the fullbacks and center mids are critical. Perhaps the box2box midfielder is being caught out? And perhaps your wingbacks are pushing too high up the pitch? This can cause all sorts of trouble. I am sure you picked a 4-2-3-1 based on your players at hand, which I totally understand, but it may not be the best formation for sitting back and being patient.

Remember even Arsenal, who use a 4-2-3-1 IRL, have to press. They didn't press against City and gave up 6 goals, if they had pressed they could have prevented many of those 6 goals, as Fernandinho was clear all day in central midfield for City, Yaya Toure as well.

So if you do want to play a slow, counter mentality, then perhaps drop the AML/AMR to ML/MR and go with a Moyes-ish 4-4-1-1. It got him a lot of praise at Everton for 10 years playing that way, very cautious and rigid.

But if you can only do a small change at first, I would immediately get rid of "CWB". Change them to fullback on support. Maybe use 1 attack 1 support. And change the B2M to something more static like CM-S. That should help tighten things up.

Hi, thanks for the info. Interesting about keeping players forward for your own corners... I am going to try that. The reason I asked, is because I started a quick game with Man U just to get used to the new tactics system and try and get over the nightmare of FM13 I had. In that save, I think I conceded from one corner, so I assumed it would be mainly player related, or something fundamentally wrong with my set up.

On the formation, I also used this for Man U, but understand my players are not close to that level. I understand regarding the Arsenal set up point as well, but I do have my shout set at 'Hassle Opponents' making sure they do not get much time on the ball.

After reading another post, I have also changed from balanced to Rigid and 'Be More Disciplined'. I suppose the intelligence and flair of Man U calibre players is different to Bury, so making this more hard working should work.

[Contexx]

Be careful about the Hassle Opponents shout - it can lead to silly fouls, especially when under pressure. This may be the cause of you getting fouls with players nervous or edgy near your area, hence leading to scoring situations from set pieces. It may be a good idea to use "stay on feed" coupled with hassle opponents.

[LCFCEaves31]

Be careful about the Hassle Opponents shout - it can lead to silly fouls, especially when under pressure. This may be the cause of you getting fouls with players nervous or edgy near your area, hence leading to scoring situations from set pieces. It may be a good idea to use "stay on feed" coupled with hassle opponents.

I have had Hassle Opponents and Stay on your feet running side by side pretty much all season, but I think under pressure, you are right, hassle opponents off seems to cut down the amount of fouls we concede.

[LCFCEaves31]

We managed to get back on track with 3 consecutive victories (1-0, 2-1,2-1) so we are not conceding as many, especially from set plays (although we managed to score an own goal from a free kick...).

However, just lost 2-1 against Northampton, for the second time this season. Two pacey front men, my centre backs don't seem to cope with them. Dropped deeper, but they always let them through, or a simple ball over their heads and my goalkeeper is in no mans land and so are my centre backs. That's life I guess... I am very thin on the ground and hope the board let me make my own team next year, as the loan signings were bad that they had in place already.

[Rob4590]

We managed to get back on track with 3 consecutive victories (1-0, 2-1,2-1) so we are not conceding as many, especially from set plays (although we managed to score an own goal from a free kick...).

However, just lost 2-1 against Northampton, for the second time this season. Two pacey front men, my centre backs don't seem to cope with them. Dropped deeper, but they always let them through, or a simple ball over their heads and my goalkeeper is in no mans land and so are my centre backs. That's life I guess... I am very thin on the ground and hope the board let me make my own team next year, as the loan signings were bad that they had in place already.

Re the bold bit - what settings are your DC's on? Are they tight marking? If so - and assuming they are slower than the opposition FC's, then that might be the issue. Try no tight marking (either as a team, individual or OI), but close them down in OI's.

[LCFCEaves31]

Re the bold bit - what settings are your DC's on? Are they tight marking? If so - and assuming they are slower than the opposition FC's, then that might be the issue. Try no tight marking (either as a team, individual or OI), but close them down in OI's.

I had taken tight marking off, but not to close down. The tight marking was set as a shout, I will have to look into it further when we come across a similar front man partnership, thanks.

[LCFCEaves31]

Hi again. We ended up finishing 9th, which I didn't think was too bad, and the last 4-5 games we looked impressive. Playing just how I liked.

Brought some new players in, but I have tried to stick to mainly same line up as last season plus same tactic. We have taken 1 point from a possible 12... Is this game going to do what FM 13 did and make the second season just a constant disappointment.

The tactical familiarity is still very high as well.

I am watching games and the players seem to be giving away sloppy goals from set pieces as always (makes no difference training on defending set pieces) and it looks like Brazil turn up against us... What the hell has changed?!?! From a decent-ish team/tactic to an absolute shambles?

I need some help obviously, but this is the 2nd FM in a row now where nothing I try works. I have been playing these games for years, but this seems the same predictable outcome every time on the last two.